FATNESS

[Maxima]

Can anyone help me.

When i listen to my tracks that ive made they all seem to sound boxed in... :evil:

How do i make them sound wide??? I no EQ'ing is a main factor and tweekin like **** as Mr log puts it.

Maybe i could do with some decent monitors these Kenwood Beasts really sound shite..... :rambo: :twisted:

[EmotionComplex]

This is something im on a mission to suss out too mate, from what ive learned upto now its about filling out frequencies, reverb can play a big part in space and warmth but as you say EQ is one of the main tools.

I have gotten good results from widening certain sounds, strings for example seem to sound a lot fuller when widened into the mix, waves stereo imager is good for this but im sur etheres loads of other plug ins that do the same.

a tight reverb on certain things i find helps smooth them into the mix but spread them out also.

Getting a good bottom end to your sound can help define it, i have been using waves maxxbass plug in recently for this, i dont know how orthodox my method of using it is though, i have been importing the final .wav master into soundforge then highlighting the whole thing then copying it for later, then i apply maxxbass plug in to the whole file within soundforge leaving me with a processed file consisting of a deep bottom end, ithen (paste special/mix) the previous file over the top leaving a deep bottom end but not altering any of the other frequencies, works a treat as far as i can tell :)

to be honest i expect you probobly know more than me on this mate lol

im listening to a cd at the moment through my monitors and it sounds light years ahead of what ive managed to do with my own music, a lot of practise is order :cool:

[Maxima]

Yeah mate this is a bit of a hard one :hmm: , like you say practise is in order.

Messin with plugs and which order to activate them is another key factor maybe.

Someone said to me you need to master your stuff to Redbook standard.
How do i achive this standard of Mastering... :?: :eh:

[EmotionComplex]

Yeah mate this is a bit of a hard one :hmm: , like you say practise is in order.

Messin with plugs and which order to activate them is another key factor maybe.

Someone said to me you need to master your stuff to Redbook standard.
How do i achive this standard of Mastering... :?: :eh:

whats rebook mastering mate?

[Maxima]

REDBOOK Standard ???

I Dont no mate Someone said it 2 me..:eh:

When u buy a cd from a shop What sort of quality is that,
if u no what i mean. cos it sounds crisp. :rambo:

[EmotionComplex]

REDBOOK Standard ???

I Dont no mate Someone said it 2 me..:eh:

When u buy a cd from a shop What sort of quality is that,
if u no what i mean. cos it sounds crisp. :rambo:

commercially released music is almost allways masterd at an outside mastering house, its a fine art and not something you could really pull of to an equallevel at home with out expensive equipment and a great deal of patience learning. although i know it is possible to come extremely close at home with enough knowledge, thing is from mastering you benefit from non subjective ears, as in the person who is mastering it will not of heard it 50 times like u have, and will also (hopefully) have a great deal of knowledge and experience mastering music.

as far as results from a home studio go i have heard some amazing stuff from people, some from pretty minimal set ups and entirely software so its proof you dont need to spend a mortgage worth to get your music sounding professional, its knowing this that is keeping me at it :)

[acidhead]

as far as results from a home studio go i have heard some amazing stuff from people, some from pretty minimal set ups and entirely software so its proof you dont need to spend a mortgage worth to get your music sounding professional

damn u, why didnt u tell me that b4 i blew all my money :cry: :shock:

[EmotionComplex]

as far as results from a home studio go i have heard some amazing stuff from people, some from pretty minimal set ups and entirely software so its proof you dont need to spend a mortgage worth to get your music sounding professional

damn u, why didnt u tell me that b4 i blew all my money :cry: :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

yeah but u got some decent equipment :twisted:

[Maxima]

:lol:

[MARKEG]

there's no easy way here man.. practice makes perfect and it's all about eq and making sure you put the right frequencies in the right places AND fill up the frequency spectrum. then you need to learn tricks such as reverb to help 'fill out' the track even more ie push sounds back and forward in the mix, compression to make parts of sounds seen louder (ie phaten certain sounds up) and then there's stereo which makes mixes sound exciting and really well produced (i'd forget about stereo if i were you though until you've learnt the basics).

[Maxima]

Cheers for the tips mark, ill keep them in mind :lol:

[DJZeMig_L]

Use a reverb in one of the aux sends... On the reverb make sure u cut all frequencies bellow something like 300-500 Hz (meaning that all sounds effected will only have frequencies above that level being effected).. use a little reverb in almost all sounds (many people don't like using over Bass or Bassdrums)...

Use wiselly the pan (leave bassdrum and bass alone in the middle).

Image that your sound is like a play on a theater.. keep the main actors at the front all other distribuite left and right of center with the pan and front/ back with the reverb (depending on they're importance for the play)..

Z

[acidhead]

if you want a sound to be 'fat' or 'wide' record the part using mulitple instruments and pan them slightly - detune them slightly , JUST LAYER THEM - preff with different synths playing the same part

too many good tracks are spoiled thru thin sounds that have no edge being used - even basic piano sounds on pop tracks when synthesised are usually about 3 - 4 different sounds ontop of each other - its how u fill out the frequency range of the certain sound

bass - record a bass sound u like in MONO!! - chances are its not deep - throw a sine wave sub bass under it at low volume to thicken it

pads - layer em , layer em some more , pan em

trance leads - same again - unison and layer em and detune em , pan a bit to taste - add some white noise too to make the sound a bit harder

arps - thin sounds that dont need to be beefed up - just add some reverb and panning delay

record lots n lots of whoosh noises , splats , plinks n plonks etc and throw them in the track at usually 4 - 8 bar distances to fill it out and to make it not sound like a scratched record

drums - im shit at drums but know how to do it but im lazy :)

kicks -pile about 3 ontop of each other if compression doesnt work , use mono samples - dead centre panning - gated , compressed , slightly reverbed and thru the puncher fx on it that u get with wavelab :)

snare - usually centre - use a ping pong delay very low to put some rhythm in it

hats - pan em - reverb em , compress em and gate em

throw a small bit of compression over the top of the lot of the drums to make em fit in and also compress the bass sound (which is also gated) with the drums to get em to gel well

always use low shelving EQ on everything (ie a high pass filter) , even if its at 20 - 30hz

to make your track have more bite - instead of recording the midi synths as audio - sample the single sound (not the riff - just a note or 2) and play the actual samples and not synths - samplers have a faster attack and an instant decay so therefore makes your tracks sound more hard hitting

anyway = thats about as far as i got b4 i got bored and decided to take a break to rethink some riffs :)

[DJZeMig_L]

Sorry m8,


always use low shelving EQ on everything (ie a high pass filter) , even if its at 20 - 30hz


A shelving filter is a shelving filter... which is very different from a high pass filter (that eliminates everything Below/ above the freq. point, i.e. Cut off frequency)... I wouldn't use a High pass m8 .. a simple bell with a big cut will do... Imagine that at the mastering stage they found the sound lacking, they can always bring it back... if u use a HPF there's nothing that anymore!

Z

[acidhead]

what i meant was --

if u cut out all sounds under 20hz - it wont make any difference at all to the sound as its under our realm of hearing - all you are removing is bass rumble that most speakers cant reproduce and would a) not make cutting a record nice , b) totally swamp a club if its present

i didnt actually mean remove all bass - i meant remove all bass that wasnt audible

i see your point about the mastering thing - but i will still say - remove it anyway -

also - i high pass filter that removes low frequencies is very similar to a low shelf eq if you dont add any resonance :)

[EmotionComplex]

ive noticed compression works a lot better when you remove the frequencies u dont hear, can act wierd when u leave them

[DJZeMig_L]

Hey... All u need is a multiband compressor...

in a full range compressor all High energy (high level) sounds end up compressing the other 1s.... still if u do a 12 db cut bellow 40 hz (I mean bell curve not a High Pass Filter) should work like a charm...

Z

[Basil Rush]

We've been doing it with filters, you reckon eq sounds nicer?

[DJZeMig_L]

Acid head... I agree with ya for stuff bellow 20hz... but not bellow 50-40hz...

And I'm sorry 2 insist but a cut filter removes everything (of course u have 2 account 4 the pole order) while a shelving removes a constant x db bellow (or above) the cut off!.. so althoug u might not ear much difference there is quite some!



U said...

"...also - i high pass filter that removes low frequencies is very similar to a low shelf eq if you dont add any resonance ..."


Like I said above as far as I know the only why for them 2 b similar is if u use a High amount of shelving... still on a powerfull PA there will b a difference... BUT I AM ALWAYS KEEN ON LEARNING so please elaborate and teach me where I'm wrong (I'm not being a smart as* by the way... if in fact u r right just explain so I correct my wrong ... :) )




I go even further... I use a bell cut of 16 db around 50 hz... most systems don't reproduce bellow 40hz (if even that much) so u end up with a much defined punchyer, louder mix... also u can make it a little beefier with a touch of maxxbass... in fact u can even pump the 60-80 range while doing the above trick ... just b sensible and u'd have a bad as* bass...

Why don't I use a high pass 2 do the same .. cause the bass sounds hollow and metalic! :(

Z

Z

[acidhead]

erm ?

right - as far as i know (which is thru reading lots of shite online and fiddling with my bits, so i may be wrong also) my mixer has a eq that does this to the sound :-

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but when pused to extreme settings it does this :-
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now a resonant filter would do this (if a small amount of res is applied):--

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and as far as i know , would do this when zero res is applied :-

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this is basically what the eq does on extreme settings is the same - as far as i am aware, the same as what the filter does

??? your turn :)


weird - this wont accept spaces as a first character :(

[DJZeMig_L]

eheh Nice drawings m8, ;)

Like I said on a small system it won't show especially if u r using it on the very low spectrum of the audio range... don't forget most of our speakers don't reproduce bellow 40-50hz (even with subs)... so natural most of the difference will b hidden, also we're not particular good in hearing extrem low bass (it's more feeling the preassure then hearing)...

try this on higher freq's... chances r yer mixer won't have a high pass that will go above 80-100hz though. Also if there wasn't much difference then u would have most dedicated eq. software let ya choose between bell, shelving and cut!


but u r right in thinking that in the low freq. u hear basically no difference in most comon setups.

but if u use say a max of a shelving cut around -24 db (most eq.s won't do more that that... but u have some software that will go as fas as 32) all u r doing is attenuating everything bellow (or above) your cut point by that amount (yes I know that U have 2 account 4 the filter poles)... with a cut u'd get the equivalent of a -infinite cut... meaning all goes...

again on most systems won't make a difference, so as a security do a shelving of -12/ 16 db... so if the guys at the mastering need some "bass air" they can always bring it back in... with a cut it's gone 4 ever... so if the effect is almost the same 2 ya, just go with the safer option... that's my view anyways!

:)


Z

[acidhead]

ok

mixer eq demo :- http://www.futuretrance.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/images/eq1.WMV[/url]

[DJZeMig_L]

lol u crazy mutha! ;)

How many dbs were U cutting?

Z