Techno Production (BEGINNING)

[tekboi]

Hi Guys,

There might of been topics on this area before but if its ok I would like to start a fresh one, I am just curious on exactly what I need to produce high quality material. I already have a monster machine of a PC, I have a Delta Audiophile soundcard and have cubase running which I am already getting use to. What other software and hardware will I need to have the power to produce quality (techno) music.

Hope alot of you can recommend, thanks ;)

[miromiric.]

good monitors, accurate unfatigued ear and some good will.

[Barely Human]

To be honest, you already have everything needed to produce quality tracks as everything can be done in software these days. But its all down to personal preferance and money! One thing you are deffinately going to need are a decent set of monitors, as these will really help your production. If your going down the software route, then get yourself SX, FL studio, Wavelab, Soundforge, V station, Bass station, Z3ta, waves plugings pack, and anything else you stumble across. If you are going down the hardware route then its going to be expensive. You'll deffo want a Desk,(maybe a beringer), Synths,(Virus c?),midi controller,(evolution?).

Really you need to specify what budget you are working on. And one piece of advice i can give you - Get to grips with some software first, and get to know what you like and want. Then you can decide what to shell your hard earned cash on.

[Jimfish]

yeah, let the first thing your budget thinks about be a good set of monitors.. spend as much as you can afford.

[DJZeMig_L]

Monitors, headphones (good 1s) and a Midi controller... Novation Remote 25 is a good bet!

Z

[Jimfish]

yeah, i bought one of them remote 25's, still waiting for the ****in thing though :(
i totally f*cking cant wait to get my sweaty little palms on it!!

[EmotionComplex]

like the guys say, monitoring is the most important thing, amount of equipment hoewever isnt, which i have learned from the fact i have spent a fair bit on synths and other things only to listen to other peoples music that has been created entirely on a pc that is sounding better quality then mine.

If youve got a powerful pc use it to its fullest :)

also if u have any money left over and you dont allready own one, invest in a nice comfy adjustable chair ;)

[Barely Human]

also if u have any money left over and you dont allready own one, invest in a nice comfy adjustable chair ;)

Neccesity mate! I wish i had one!

[EmotionComplex]

also if u have any money left over and you dont allready own one, invest in a nice comfy adjustable chair ;)

Neccesity mate! I wish i had one!

ive got a massive studio chair my folks got me last chrimbo, fully adjustable and on wheels and super comfy :cool: , one of the most useful pressies theyve ever got me :lol:

[go|plastic]

also if u have any money left over and you dont allready own one, invest in a nice comfy adjustable chair ;)

Words to live by right there!

[DJZeMig_L]

yep...


I gues most of us forgot about that basic, very important fact eheheh ...

Good PC monitors r also important... some time in the near future (fingers crossed) i am 2 invest in a Parhelia Video Card and another 17" tft Monitor... 3 monitors is tha shi* :)

Also think about CPU cards like TC Powercore and UAD1...


Z

[Barely Human]

Three monitors!! Bahhh!! I used to have a dual screen set up! Missing it like crazy now!

[tekboi]

Is the Novation Remote 25 midi controller better for hardware or software or is it a beautiful that suits both hardware and software. I roughly know what a midi controller is but if someone can just go into a little more detail on what the controller does it would be helpful :)

Also does the midi controller enable me to work off that rather than the knobs on the cubase platform, I mean do I need to get a seperate knob controller box so I can control the knobs in real time rather than from the cubase platform with my mouse? Or is this what the midi controller does?

I hope this makes sense, get back to me on this guys, thanks for all the feedback so far, I have only been mixing for the time being, so I am new to the production side of things but very interested.

[EmotionComplex]

Is the Novation Remote 25 midi controller better for hardware or software or is it a beautiful that suits both hardware and software. I roughly know what a midi controller is but if someone can just go into a little more detail on what the controller does it would be helpful :)

Also does the midi controller enable me to work off that rather than the knobs on the cubase platform, I mean do I need to get a seperate knob controller box so I can control the knobs in real time rather than from the cubase platform with my mouse? Or is this what the midi controller does?

I hope this makes sense, get back to me on this guys, thanks for all the feedback so far, I have only been mixing for the time being, so I am new to the production side of things but very interested.

basically a midi controller acts as the main interface between you and your pc, sequences can be recorded that you play via its keyboard into midi tracks within the sequencer and sequencer/software instruments parameters can be alterd with its controls.

The novation controller has a number of template layouts it supports including cubase but you can customise these also, so the sliders might operate seperate volume channels within cubase, knobs assigned to filter controls etc.

there are all sorts of midi control interfaces though that can work together, say if u wanted a master midi controller keyboard for notation input then a second control surface to operate the main sequencer controls on but cost wise, and simplicity wise id say the novation controler would be excellent for you.

[Barely Human]

Is the Novation Remote 25 midi controller better for hardware or software or is it a beautiful that suits both hardware and software. I roughly know what a midi controller is but if someone can just go into a little more detail on what the controller does it would be helpful :)

Also does the midi controller enable me to work off that rather than the knobs on the cubase platform, I mean do I need to get a seperate knob controller box so I can control the knobs in real time rather than from the cubase platform with my mouse? Or is this what the midi controller does?

I hope this makes sense, get back to me on this guys, thanks for all the feedback so far, I have only been mixing for the time being, so I am new to the production side of things but very interested.



basically a midi controller acts as the main interface between you and your pc, sequences can be recorded that you play via its keyboard into midi tracks within the sequencer and sequencer/software instruments parameters can be alterd with its controls.

The novation controller has a number of template layouts it supports including cubase but you can customise these also, so the sliders might operate seperate volume channels within cubase, knobs assigned to filter controls etc.

there are all sorts of midi control interfaces though that can work together, say if u wanted a master midi controller keyboard for notation input then a second control surface to operate the main sequencer controls on but cost wise, and simplicity wise id say the novation controler would be excellent for you.

Couldnt say it anymore complicated myself ;)

[DJZeMig_L]

Lol... Tekboi if u get that great... if not let us know what u didn't understand! ;)

Z

[professor]

I agree with Miro and the second post on this topic.

You need an unfatigued ear and some good will. You really gotta be willing to invest some serious time and energy in order to make
"high quality material". For lots of people it takes years before they are making stuff that sounds good to them. Be careful not to fall into feeling the need to get more software/hardware because you can't get the sound your looking for, or your tracks aren't turning out the way you want them to. Spend time getting to know what you have, inside and out.

Gear isn't gonna make you sound like a pro. Only dedication will.

Now that I've said that...I agree with everyone else that monitors are probably the single most important part to sculpting killer tracks.

[romelpotter]

good monitors are important, but their job is to give a flat freq responce so that you can mix a track to sound averagley good on any sound soruce you play it through. you can make a killer track through your own set up but play it elswere and it may sound a little flat or just not as good. to make a killer track you need good monitors, good computer set up and a little knowlage about phyco acoustics and the limits of a sound wave gong through different types of audio set ups eg club system, home hifi and car stereo. You can get this from books and there are many quality studio cources out there these days. hmm maybe one day i will learn to spell !!

[tekboi]

Then on top of the midi controller and already cubase software, what pieces of software would be best to link up with cubase sx???

Whether it be soft synths or samplers or compressors, need some names so I can go find them, hope uz can help.

Hardware to link up with my PC would be helpful too if possible but want to start off all software apart from the midi controller. Is a knob controller box useful?

Thanks again!

[Iron Lee]

Everyone,
Midi this, monitor that, blah blah blah. I use Acid 4 and a cheap laptop. I have good headphones. I have 1200's too which I sample from, plus old video game systems and a vcr and dvd / cd player to sample from. That's it. I pump out great tech-acid house type stuff with that. Don't be fooled into thinking you need all this stuff. I'm not quite sure what midi is or why I would need it. If you want to produce tracks that a dj would want to mix into a set at a rave, you don't need midi. I'm sure of it! This music is meant to be produced this way guys. Don't scare people away thinking they have to spend a fortune.

[DJZeMig_L]

If u r careful enougth 2 read all the posts U will c that there was some care put into explaining why u need this or that... There ain't just 1 truth, what works 4 u doesn't mean it works 4 other people.. with that assumption most people will answer acording 2 they're experiences...

If u can do with a minimal setup then great ... I'm sure most people would love that but truth of the mater is the more u produce and know the more u understand why u need something better ... example now I know why I would love 2 b able 2 buy a urei compressor! ;)
This doen't mean u r wrong.. it works 4 u.. But still I think with time and more experience U'll probably agree with most posts...

M8 I don't mean 2 b paternising or anything .. I started producing with just one workstation, I used 2 think the sound was ok, and some tracks have mede it fresh 'till today.. but I get :oops: everytime I hear them 'cause now I can hear so many wrong things in it.. and I'm not refering 2 track structure!

Z

[Barely Human]

Thats so true z :lol: After time you will come to realise that using a minimal setup will be limiting to the impact your tracks will have production wise. Espiecially when you get into full on compression, and maximizing techniquies. Even a decent EQ can make all the difference from a flat, lifeless track, to a perfectly balanced track, with all fequancies seperated from each other, so the minutest little details come through in the mix.

One thing you have said is that you dont have, or need, monitors. The longer you produce, the more you will realise you will need good monitors.

[Iron Lee]

I'd even go as far as saying you don't need good monitors. I use normal computer speakers, then I monitor with monitor head phones and make changes from there. You get used to knowing how it will turn out anyway, even if you can't hear it all through crap computer speakers. You know you have some deep bass when you bring it down to 100 hz etc... So really, come on guys, it's all in your ears. Or between your ears. You get more creative and learn more with a financial limit. I've already had tracks of mine mixed into sets. There is a club in Calgary AB. Canada called "Machine" that plays my stuff from time to time. Not bragging just making a point.

[Barely Human]

I really dont understand your logic :?: This post was about what equipment should he get for a starting setup. And the first thing that is needed is some monitors. Not for the fact that you cant make decent music without them, its for the fact that they make your life a lot easier. Meaning you can spend less time concentrating on how it will sound on other systems, knowing that you have a flat sound reproduction, leaving you more time to be creative. No you dont need monitors, i havent got any yet, and i do have a realese coming out, but they are still on the top of my list, as these would make my job a hell of a lot easier :doh:

[Iron Lee]

I wasn't replying to any post in particular. So no logic is misplaced there. Other than that I agree with you. But if you get some monitor headphones, that works great in the meantime of getting those elusive monitors. Don't take this stuff so seriously. Is this what anyone does for a living here? I doubt it. :rambo:

[EmotionComplex]

I'd even go as far as saying you don't need good monitors. I use normal computer speakers, then I monitor with monitor head phones and make changes from there. You get used to knowing how it will turn out anyway, even if you can't hear it all through crap computer speakers. You know you have some deep bass when you bring it down to 100 hz etc... So really, come on guys, it's all in your ears. Or between your ears. You get more creative and learn more with a financial limit. I've already had tracks of mine mixed into sets. There is a club in Calgary AB. Canada called "Machine" that plays my stuff from time to time. Not bragging just making a point.

you can make good music structurley on a gramaphone but the reality is if you want to take it to a more scientifical level were u have full control of sonics , depth and how each layer of sound interacts with another you need acurate monitoring, this doesnt really matter a great deal when your first starting out but it definetly wouldnt hurt to get some good monitoring sorted from the get go.

i have no doubt that you have probobly made some good music mate but i expect if you were to send it to a label and they liked it they would have a few niggles with the production and ask you to take it back and return with it sorted, a pair of hi fi speakers and headphones are great as a second reference to see how it is sounding on a typical set up but using these as a main reference is bound to effect your sound in some way, im not trying to sound like the production expert either, i have only just recently installed a pair of monitoring speakers in my set up but i am allready noticing there importance.

You can make good music on anything but the fact remains in todays music world there is a standard in which it must comform too to be released and most importantly if youve taken the time to make the music surely u want to get it sounding as good as possible.

I couldnt go back to using a pair of hi fi speakers now as id feel like i was working in the dark so to speak, like i say though for someone startibg out the first important thing is to get used to making music but if you can access a quality link between the music and your ears at the start it can only be an advantage for your learning.

[EmotionComplex]

Don't take this stuff so seriously. Is this what anyone does for a living here? I doubt it. :rambo:

And we never will unless we take things seriously sometimes ;) , but this is a forum so people are going to put there points across, were not having a go just gettin our opinions out :cool:

[acidhead]

why do people pull hifi speakers down ???

good quality hifi speakers wipe the floor with monitors of the same price level - the market is much harsher/competative and so this creates better quality at lower levels.

for eg. - do u think ATC are a monitor company? NO - they make top of the range hifi speakers that studios got onto and so with a bit of marketing decided to bring out the SCM range as monitors too
do you think tannoy reveals are specialist monitors ? NO - they are a pair of £120 bookshelf hifi speakers with a shit amp thrown in, a bit of eq and a pricetag of £400

when you buy a pair of home level monitors - chances are they have totally shite cones in them - yes u can read the blurb that comes with them that says this and that but in REAL hifi speakers the cones are made by the top companies - seas , morel , vifa etc..

you can present to me those silly little graphs on pieces of paper that claim a perfect flat frequency responce , and i can show u 100's of hifi speaker that have the same USELESS graphs - they are plots drawn in a chamber that has no reflections/standing waves using either white/pink noise or a sweeping sine wave - no one on this earth has a studio with no reflections in and no one uses pure sinwaves or white noise to create music. chances are when you put them in your room you will have a huge hump at the bass end and depending on how close you are and how thick your carpet/curtains are , a rather steep rolloff at the top end.

the case of buying monitors so they sound good on more systems - how many top studios have 1 set of monitors??? they usually have 3 pairs - the main monitors in the walls for full frequency monitoring , a midfield pair for balancing the general mix and a pair of nearfields for accurate treble and midrange monitoring - so in effect - 1 set of monitors, no matter how good u think they are will not produce perfect mixes on every system - the only way to do that is by listening to tracks you know and finding out what pair of monitors fit in with your definition of what is right without resorting to EQ. If you get a pair that normal music sounds great on then if you can get your tracks to sound like the pro normal music then you are prob 80% on your way to a good mix.

this isnt a rant by the way , its just the way i see it , and im not talking about cheepo midi hifi speakers either as they should go straight in the bin ;) , im talking about general mid priced speakers to compete with your mackies, ns10's etc. etc. instead of them - why not try out a pair of Ruark/Sonus Faber/Harbeth/ B&W and throw an amp like a Naim / Arcam / Musical fidelity/ Quad etc.. i bet u will tell the difference straight away


http://www.positive-feedback.com/ambackissues/images/ATCSCM50v2.jpg

mastering studios even use hifi speakers!!!!

[EmotionComplex]

if it was diercted at me i wasnt putting hi-fi speakers down as a whole :oops:

im refering to home hi-fi speakers that arent designed for that use and favour some frequencies over others, such as the majority that are found in the home.

im aware of the high end hi fi equipment rivaling well known monitor speakers although its not something im very knowledgeable on

[tekboi]

I didnt like that post about not being too serious its not like ppl are doing it for a living comment, not accusing or anything like that but hey there is no doubt the production of music is not just for fun and doing for the spare time. Making music can make you feel better, give you confidence for all sorts of things, express yourself and a million other things but enough of that hehe

I no doubt agree with everyone that monitors are the best, I havent experienced top monitors yet but from the learning base of production so far I have noticed that if you dont have the quality of output coming out when your producing its not going to sound good elsewhere, and you need to be able to clearly identify what exactly your doing to your track.

Anywayz as for booth monitors I am currently setting eyes on the Mackie HR624's - I think they are perfect production monitors for me at the moment can anyone comment on this decision? And as for monitoring headphones, can anyone recommend any affordable yet quality choices?

Thanks again ppl, uz rock! :clap:

[DJZeMig_L]

Good decision...

Acid U r quite right but indeed if u look into it a good hi-fi amp+ good hi-fi speaker would probably set u off with just as much spending as a Good Nearfield.. so I guess it's a mater of reference... I will probably get more confident comments form users of "known Nearfield" brands then from producers making music on hifh speakers, regardless of how good they might b!!
I feel that it's loads more trial & error going 4 something that I know few people have then for something tested if u know what I mean...

It's true no1 has perfect rooms... precisely from that assumption brands do technical test, based around the more objectively as possible.. I mean it's not at all the perfect way 2 compare speakers but it's the more "perfect" possible !


There is also another good point.. if u know the faults of work system u can eventually work around 'em ... but lets b honest I have been producing for a fair amount of years and I never feel confortable with a mix... I always feel that it's online my best guess with the system I have. I have recently exchanged rooms7 speakers and I know feel totally at lost... I will need some time and close "ear training2 2 start figuring out the problem areas!!

The case presented 2 us was from a start up so I don't think he'll so soon b able 2 really analise what's wrong with his home hi-fi speakers, damn' I don't feel at ease after all the years myself, so it seems that the best guess would b .. get linear monitors, the best u can with your budget, changes are that will b yer "best mistake", those should last and u can learn with 'em and thru' em .. later u can have yer own informed and knowledged opinion to make other choices !

Z