Another Jewish coach on his way to Chelsea

[Aratron]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/7034080.stm

hopefully he will be a flop

[Esox Lucius]

i hope someone tampers with their showers and pumps zyklon b out...

[Insomnia]

The guy seems to be under pressure at Ajax this season so no doubt a healthy salary at Chelsea and a way out from his current job will tempt him on his way...

Worked at Barcelona also so not a bad track record....

As for how he'll do, aint got a clue...

The thing with Chelsea is what's safe at the minute, not much....

[Aratron]

i hope someone tampers with their showers and pumps zyklon b out...

or builds a big wall around the stadium like they have in Palestine

[Aratron]

The guy seems to be under pressure at Ajax this season so no doubt a healthy salary at Chelsea and a way out from his current job will tempt him on his way...

Worked at Barcelona also so not a bad track record....

As for how he'll do, aint got a clue...

The thing with Chelsea is what's safe at the minute, not much....

well you have heard the saying too many cooks spoil the broth

or in this case too many Jews cant buy football

[phantomdj]

Revelation 2

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

The Messianic Jews are different to the zionists. Obviously the messianic ones are not in football or banking.

[Aratron]

Revelation 2

8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

The Messianic Jews are different to the zionists. Obviously the messianic ones are not in football or banking.

the Jews are satanists dude. and so are most christians.

[phantomdj]

the Jews are satanists dude. and so are most christians.

Actually the zionists are, and to state that Christians are is folly. satanism is rebellion against God. That rebellion is not doing as you are commanded and walking in the lusts of the flesh...

that includes you and most other people. so when the judgement comes, you are no better off than a labelled 'satanist' because...


Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Rom 8:9 Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

[Aratron]

Actually the zionists are, and to state that Christians are is folly. satanism is rebellion against God. That rebellion is not doing as you are commanded and walking in the lusts of the flesh...

that includes you and most other people. so when the judgement comes, you are no better off than a labelled 'satanist' because...


Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Rom 8:9 Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

Satan is God dude. And the bible is his works. so dont quote that trash to me. please.

Let the dead, bury the dead. Luke 9:59-62

[phantomdj]

Satan is God dude. And the bible is his works. so dont quote that trash to me. please.

Let the dead, bury the dead. Luke 9:59-62

just as i thought, you are one of those new age 'i'm cool' occultists...

how ironic it is that you tell someone not to quote the Bible, yet you go and do that very thing straight after. not only that, you cite some scripture which has no reference to the topic at hand.

you are dealing in things you do not understand and just quoting other false words from the self-professed wise over the ages and your comments are non-sensical.


The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise and they are futile.

[Aratron]

just as i thought, you are one of those new age 'i'm cool' occultists...

how ironic it is that you tell someone not to quote the Bible, yet you go and do that very thing straight after. not only that, you cite some scripture which has no reference to the topic at hand.

you are dealing in things you do not understand and just quoting other false words from the self-professed wise over the ages and your comments are non-sensical.


The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise and they are futile.

i'm neither New Age or cool. Your Lord is Satan dude. I'm not trying to wind you up here. Our souls are already in hell. What do you think this place is?

[phantomdj]

Is this really where you want to have this conversation?

You cannot wind me up on this issue because I know what I have. I have pity for you that you cannot see the truth.

i used to think i was a christian just because i believed, but something inside me knew it must be more than that, then an evangelist showed me that the scriptures were clear - you must repent of your sins from the bottom of your heart, know you are wrong, be baptised by full immersion, then be washed by the Holy Spirit (evidenced by the speaking on tongues), and abide in Jesus' Word throughout your life. Only then are you saved.

Rom 8:9 Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

This wonderful language that comes out every time i pray in the Spirit and gives us power is exactly who Jesus called Him - The Comforter. This is exactly the same Gospel preached at the day of pentecost nearly 2000 years ago and was essentially lost when the evil roman empire sabotaged the Gospel and altered the Word of God for a collection of man made traditions and doctrines. These were the dark ages - preaching in Latin when no one could understand. Controlling the people with false tradtions and extracting money at all opportunity.

The catholic church, the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Mormons, and so forth.... yes, their God is Satan

but the truth will set you free and we are soon to be delivered from these wicked times - we are in those last days.

[Aratron]

Is this really where you want to have this conversation?

You cannot wind me up on this issue because I know what I have. I have pity for you that you cannot see the truth.

i used to think i was a christian just because i believed, but something inside me knew it must be more than that, then an evangelist showed me that the scriptures were clear - you must repent of your sins from the bottom of your heart, know you are wrong, be baptised by full immersion, then be washed by the Holy Spirit (evidenced by the speaking on tongues), and abide in Jesus' Word throughout your life. Only then are you saved.

Rom 8:9 Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

This wonderful language that comes out every time i pray in the Spirit and gives us power is exactly who Jesus called Him - The Comforter. This is exactly the same Gospel preached at the day of pentecost nearly 2000 years ago and was essentially lost when the evil roman empire sabotaged the Gospel and altered the Word of God for a collection of man made traditions and doctrines. These were the dark ages - preaching in Latin when no one could understand. Controlling the people with false tradtions and extracting money at all opportunity.

The catholic church, the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Mormons, and so forth.... yes, their God is Satan

but the truth will set you free and we are soon to be delivered from these wicked times - we are in those last days.


dude what makes your church diffferent, and yeah lets have this convo here. at least it wont get spolit by the Uncle Toms in Metropolis. btw i do like you okay

[phantomdj]

dude what makes your church diffferent, and yeah lets have this convo here. at least it wont get spolit by the Uncle Toms in Metropolis. btw i do like you okay

I agree, Metropolis is a joke. That's why I don't go in there.

OK, If you are serious about wanting to know more and why this is different then read this relatively short Word document

http://www.mediafire.com/?fm83viiyvgn

Make sure you digest it.

btw this http://www.revivalfellowship.org/default.asp is the fellowship i attend. I am not saying we are the only ones who actually understand the full Gospel, there are other groups around, but there are very few. It is written that only a remnant are saved and this is understood to be very small.

This fellowship is not like the organised religions, like the ones i stated previously. they are dead and God is not in them. It is because of these false organisations that there are so many unbelievers around who view the catholic church (especially) as some figurehead of God, when in fact 666 is the numerical value of the 'Vicar of Christ - The Pope' in Latin.


Ours is the real deal and I know found peace after so many years of searching through the different churches. When God knew I was ready. my path crossed with those in the felloship and on that very day I received the Holy Spirit (evidenced by the speaking of tongues) which is promised in the scriptures. Right then i Knew God was real and that this truly was the way, the truth and the life. People are healed of aids - completely after baptism. Children lame from birth who are baptised can walk for the first time. heroin addicts are completely healed without cold turkey. People with a club foot are healed after baptism. So many other diseases and illnesses I saw healed before my very eyes. I am not talking about those false witch doctor things in africa - this is the real thing. Where you meet people in the street and see the problems they have and watch how God instantly heals them. It is so uplifting and so reassuring in these wicked days we live in. Just like in the days of Noah and the flood, people were laughing and going on about life as they always did - and so it is in these final days. When He returns, it is too late to repent and it will be a terrible time for those who do not have their name written in the book of the lamb (Jesus). God answers prayers and blesses his children for humbling themselves and acknowleding that we are nothing without him, but to be saved you must do what He commanded - born of water and the Spirit!

http://www.revivalfellowship.org/study.asp

Check the link above for other faith building tools. The Bible numerics and so forth. There really is no excuse for not believing.

You are in Yorkshire, no? You should come to a meeting on Sunday. I would pick you up and take you there and bring you back. If you read Mark 16 you will see that jesus told us to preach the Gospel to everyone and that is our calling. Yes, evangelise. It is knowing that God is real and understanding the terrible consequences for those who do not believe that drives us on to try and bring as mnay people to the LORD as possible in these last days. hence the reason I would drive and pick you up and take you back. It is in Goole, but we have people who travel from Hull, Skipton, Wakefield.... Yes. You will travel far when you know the fruit of God is there.

Like the scriptures says - 'today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts'.... when you die it's too late and you will only be aware of your fatal choice of not doing what God coammanded when you are awoken from your slumber at the day of judgement.

[Esox Lucius]

cant we just get back to hating zionists.

[Aratron]

cant we just get back to hating zionists.

that goes without saying dude

[Aratron]

I agree, Metropolis is a joke. That's why I don't go in there.

OK, If you are serious about wanting to know more and why this is different then read this relatively short Word document

http://www.mediafire.com/?fm83viiyvgn

Make sure you digest it.

btw this http://www.revivalfellowship.org/default.asp is the fellowship i attend. I am not saying we are the only ones who actually understand the full Gospel, there are other groups around, but there are very few. It is written that only a remnant are saved and this is understood to be very small.

This fellowship is not like the organised religions, like the ones i stated previously. they are dead and God is not in them. It is because of these false organisations that there are so many unbelievers around who view the catholic church (especially) as some figurehead of God, when in fact 666 is the numerical value of the 'Vicar of Christ - The Pope' in Latin.


Ours is the real deal and I know found peace after so many years of searching through the different churches. When God knew I was ready. my path crossed with those in the felloship and on that very day I received the Holy Spirit (evidenced by the speaking of tongues) which is promised in the scriptures. Right then i Knew God was real and that this truly was the way, the truth and the life. People are healed of aids - completely after baptism. Children lame from birth who are baptised can walk for the first time. heroin addicts are completely healed without cold turkey. People with a club foot are healed after baptism. So many other diseases and illnesses I saw healed before my very eyes. I am not talking about those false witch doctor things in africa - this is the real thing. Where you meet people in the street and see the problems they have and watch how God instantly heals them. It is so uplifting and so reassuring in these wicked days we live in. Just like in the days of Noah and the flood, people were laughing and going on about life as they always did - and so it is in these final days. When He returns, it is too late to repent and it will be a terrible time for those who do not have their name written in the book of the lamb (Jesus). God answers prayers and blesses his children for humbling themselves and acknowleding that we are nothing without him, but to be saved you must do what He commanded - born of water and the Spirit!

http://www.revivalfellowship.org/study.asp

Check the link above for other faith building tools. The Bible numerics and so forth. There really is no excuse for not believing.

You are in Yorkshire, no? You should come to a meeting on Sunday. I would pick you up and take you there and bring you back. If you read Mark 16 you will see that jesus told us to preach the Gospel to everyone and that is our calling. Yes, evangelise. It is knowing that God is real and understanding the terrible consequences for those who do not believe that drives us on to try and bring as mnay people to the LORD as possible in these last days. hence the reason I would drive and pick you up and take you back. It is in Goole, but we have people who travel from Hull, Skipton, Wakefield.... Yes. You will travel far when you know the fruit of God is there.

Like the scriptures says - 'today if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts'.... when you die it's too late and you will only be aware of your fatal choice of not doing what God coammanded when you are awoken from your slumber at the day of judgement.

the point where i get stuck is paying the 10 % of my salary bit to the church.
i do believe you are a good person though

[Esox Lucius]

catholicism is the only true christianity.

[Aratron]

catholicism is the only true christianity.

i do like the Black Madonna

you ever seen a black madonna before dude.

theres some in Truro Cathedral, if you ever go to Cornwall.

[force]

Is this really where you want to have this conversation?

You cannot wind me up on this issue because I know what I have. I have pity for you that you cannot see the truth.

i used to think i was a christian just because i believed, but something inside me knew it must be more than that, then an evangelist showed me that the scriptures were clear - you must repent of your sins from the bottom of your heart, know you are wrong, be baptised by full immersion, then be washed by the Holy Spirit (evidenced by the speaking on tongues), and abide in Jesus' Word throughout your life. Only then are you saved.

Rom 8:9 Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

This wonderful language that comes out every time i pray in the Spirit and gives us power is exactly who Jesus called Him - The Comforter. This is exactly the same Gospel preached at the day of pentecost nearly 2000 years ago and was essentially lost when the evil roman empire sabotaged the Gospel and altered the Word of God for a collection of man made traditions and doctrines. These were the dark ages - preaching in Latin when no one could understand. Controlling the people with false tradtions and extracting money at all opportunity.

The catholic church, the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Mormons, and so forth.... yes, their God is Satan

but the truth will set you free and we are soon to be delivered from these wicked times - we are in those last days.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

please watch the first part, and no, im not being funny!

[phantomdj]

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

please watch the first part, and no, im not being funny!


The music was cool.

That stupid bit at the beginning of some cartoon worms turing into various types of animals and then into a human was a total joke and a clear image of the woeful desperation of the foolish imagination of those wishful macro-evolutionists who are stupid enough to believe that everything came from nothing. absolutely ridiculous. if you are bright enough to know that a ferrari on the road was designed by a man, then you should have the intelligence to work out that an animal which is far more complex than that, clearly has a super-intelligent being behind it. and that idiot jordon maxwell is known as a fraud and works for the establishment. Also, to add to this, did you not read what I wrote? I exposed the religious organisations such as the catholic church and the other cults. How dare Mr Maxwell quote the Bible in one case and ignore the rest of it. That is immature academia.

the whole film is total propaganda and totally false at that. It is easy to be sucked into all that rubbish because you want to believe it. Why believe the truth when you can use the lie to continue living in your sin. There are many false religions out there - foretold in the scriptures - just like these latter days were foretold. every single prophecy ever written in the Bible has come true. If you spent as much time truly researching the scriptures and reliable sources as you did with all that other rubbish you read, then your eyes just might be opened and the truth will set you free.

[force]

It is easy to be sucked into all that rubbish because you want to believe it.

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree because the above line i 'Throw back at you' :)

[phantomdj]

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree because the above line i 'Throw back at you' :)

yeah... life formed itself...

just like those people who are instantly healed of terminal illnesses, addictions and lame from birth just healed their own body


yeah it is rubbish. i think i go for the more obvious, logical and clear cut answer,

that there is a Creator, He is the living God and we are in those last days and if you actually spent some time trying to find the truth with an open heart then His Spirit will move on you and give you rest and you will know you are saved.

You have no excuses and one day you will answer for your sin and there is so much proof out there that you can't hide behind anything.

[Aratron]

yeah... life formed itself...

just like those people who are instantly healed of terminal illnesses, addictions and lame from birth just healed their own body


yeah it is rubbish. i think i go for the more obvious, logical and clear cut answer,

that there is a Creator, He is the living God and we are in those last days and if you actually spent some time trying to find the truth with an open heart then His Spirit will move on you and give you rest and you will know you are saved.

You have no excuses and one day you will answer for your sin and there is so much proof out there that you can't hide behind anything.

jesus, take it easy chief

[phantomdj]

eternity is a long time, buddy!

[force]

yeah... life formed itself...

just like those people who are instantly healed of terminal illnesses, addictions and lame from birth just healed their own body


yeah it is rubbish. i think i go for the more obvious, logical and clear cut answer,

that there is a Creator, He is the living God and we are in those last days and if you actually spent some time trying to find the truth with an open heart then His Spirit will move on you and give you rest and you will know you are saved.

You have no excuses and one day you will answer for your sin and there is so much proof out there that you can't hide behind anything.

You're a bit scary!

[phantomdj]

Scary? I end this thread with the following. You probably never read it, but maybe someday you will.


Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.

Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honour him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonouring of their bodies among themselves,

Rom 1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.


2Pe 3:3 knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.

2Pe 3:4 They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation."

2Pe 3:5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God,

2Pe 3:6 and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.

2Pe 3:7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

2Pe 3:8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

2Pe 3:11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,

2Pe 3:12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!

2Ti 3:1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty.

2Ti 3:2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,

2Ti 3:3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,

2Ti 3:4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

2Ti 3:5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

2Ti 3:6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions,

Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

[Aratron]

Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

like managing to come when your on speed

[massplanck]

Phantom do you think that God designed the whole Internet letter for letter?

[massplanck]

Or is it constantly evolving?

[massplanck]

I sometimes wonder why some people who believe in God wont even entertain the idea that God might have actually invented\kickstarted evolution. I believe in a higher being/consciousness.. but i dare not put those words to that belief. God had no religion.

Yeah your saved. Good for you. I wonder how many bad trips & nervous breakdowns it took you to come to that conclusion? Me? It took me 2 bad trips and one breakdown.

I want a date for your doomsday. Last days my hole. 1 year? 2 years? 10 years? 30 years? You tell me buddy. Gimme a date now.

I'll tell you what, while you are sitting there on your high horse while waiting for the sky to fall on you ill be going about my business doing me best to helping others out of hell on earth. Before you call me a sinner.. I dont watch TV, I have been faithfull to my GF for 9 years. I *pray*/meditate to a higher thing or being, I give money to charity and do my best to help people.

The best christians are the one whp help the sick and needy not the ones ones who boast how "saved" they are and everyone else is doomed. Fcuking ridoculous.. tbh i'd rather worship satan than worship a god who forgot to tell people in Asia & South American about Jesus.

I pity the rainforest tribes most. God couldnt be arsed spreading the word to them by the sounds of things.

[Eddowion]

I'm an agnostic........I'm not arrogant enough to say for sure HE/SHE does or does not exist, truth is, I don't know.

I do have a good way of getting rid of Jehovah's Witnesses from the doorstep.
Be polite, listen to their chat then say , all preacher like, "Yes but you're all heathen protestants, you're going to rot in eternal hellfire and damnation, come inside, have a cup of tea and let me tell you all about it". Trust me, they'll be up your path and out the gate like sh1t off a shovel.

[force]

Scary? I end this thread with the following. You probably never read it, but maybe someday you will.


Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.

Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honour him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,

Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonouring of their bodies among themselves,

Rom 1:25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.


2Pe 3:3 knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.

2Pe 3:4 They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation."

2Pe 3:5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God,

2Pe 3:6 and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.

2Pe 3:7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

2Pe 3:8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

2Pe 3:11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,

2Pe 3:12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!

2Ti 3:1 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty.

2Ti 3:2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,

2Ti 3:3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good,

2Ti 3:4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

2Ti 3:5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people.

2Ti 3:6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions,

Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

V good, have a biscuit:)

Or maybe, just maybe, the crap you've just parroted above was specifically designed to keep naive, self righteous fearmongers like you, under control and and in a constant state of fear of eternal damnation if you so much as smoke a fag or have a wank........

I do pity you


that is all

[Eddowion]

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

please watch the first part, and no, im not being funny!
Don't worry about the intro, watch it all.........scary or what?

[Aratron]

V good, have a biscuit:)

Or maybe, just maybe, the crap you've just parroted above was specifically designed to keep naive, self righteous fearmongers like you, under control and and in a constant state of fear of eternal damnation if you so much as smoke a fag or have a wank........

I do pity you


that is all

dude go easy on phantom dj. he has beliefs respect that. :;

[phantomdj]

@ Massplanck

(I sometimes wonder why some people who believe in God wont even entertain the idea that God might have actually invented\kickstarted evolution.)

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp HERE IS ONE SOURCE FOR YOU TO LOOK AT. THE FACT IS MACROEVOLUTION IS A BLIND FAITH AND IF YOU REMOVE ALL THE FALSE HEADLINES IN THE MAINSTREAM SCIENCE JOURNALS AND THE HYPE AND ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE DATA YOU WILL SEE THAT THE CLAIMS OF THE EVOLUTION RELIGION ARE LUDICROUS AND DO NOT MATCH THE DATA AVAILABLE NOR LOGICAL COMMON SENSE. ESPECIALLY CHECK THIS LINK http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/infotheory.asp If you are not going to read them, then don’t bother replying because I won’t take the time to answer your comments either. If you want the truth, then you analyse everything.


(i want a date for your doomsday. Last days my hole. 1 year? 2 years? 10 years? 30 years? You tell me buddy. Gimme a date now.)

Mar 13:32 "But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Mar 13:33 Be on guard, keep awake. For you do not know when the time will come.
Mar 13:34 It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to stay awake.
Mar 13:35 Therefore stay awake--for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning--
Mar 13:36 lest he come suddenly and find you asleep.
Mar 13:37 And what I say to you I say to all: Stay awake."



(I'll tell you what, while you are sitting there on your high horse while waiting for the sky to fall on you ill be going about my business doing me best to helping others out of hell on earth. Before you call me a sinner.. I dont watch TV, I have been faithfull to my GF for 9 years. I *pray*/meditate to a higher thing or being, I give money to charity and do my best to help people.)

You are pathetic to say high horse. You had absolutely no justification for saying it whatsoever and your argument falls flat because you know nothing about me. I don’t watch tv either pal, except the odd sport game. I don’t drink, smoke, take drugs or cheat anyone. I give to the poor and always welcome people. I share the Gospel with everyone I can out of love because I know what end is coming. So for you to say I am just sitting here doing nothing on my so-called high horse – well what a joke and how wrong it is. It is so foolish and out of place to even assert that I was boasting about being saved. That is pathetic. My whole line of argument was to help others. Did you not also see the word document I posted for others to read what it says in the Bible with regards to salvation? The fact you would rather worship Satan says a lot about you and your irrational train of thought. As for those you assume have not heard the Gospel – there are many missionaries out there and if they are unable to hear it, then God will judge them accordingly in his righteous and holy way – but you cannot use the same excuse! You heard the Gospel, but cast it away, so you have no excuses.

(The best christians are the one whp help the sick and needy not the ones ones who boast how "saved" they are and everyone else is doomed. Fcuking ridoculous.. tbh i'd rather worship satan than worship a god who forgot to tell people in Asia & South American about Jesus.)

Not at all. Who are we trying to please? You or God? God said there is only one way to enter heaven. You must be born of water and the Spirit! In doing this and being right in the sight of God, we then live a life like you suggested. But being a ‘good person’ is not enough because Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


@ Force

You are the naive one. I do wonder if you even know what self-righteous even means because two of you have misused the word terribly.

2Pe 3:3 knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.
2Pe 3:4 They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation."
2Pe 3:5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God,
2Pe 3:6 and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
2Pe 3:7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
2Pe 3:8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

@ Eddowion

There is a way to know Pal, if you saw those healings and miracles you would be bowled over mate. Also receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues (not like that idiot borat and that false set up). The fact the scriptures are numerically perfect in the Greek and Hebrew and no computer can actually do it, but only notice it.


.................................................. ......................................
http://www.revivalfellowship.org/Matthew_Chapter_118_25.asp
Numerics test applied to
Matthew Chapter 1:18-25
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just [man], and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. {conceived: Gr. begotten} 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. {JESUS: that is, Saviour, Heb} 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. {they...: or, his name shall be called} 24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

The first chapter of the gospel of Matthew tells the story of the lineage of Jesus and of His birth. This chapter separates naturally into two major divisions.

The first major division, verses 1 to 17, contains the record of Christ's lineage and these verses further divide into two sections, being verses 1 - 11 and verses 12 - 17. Whilst all these natural divisions each contain significant numerical features, we will focus on the second major division of the chapter being verses 18 - 25. This passage depicts the birth of Jesus Christ.


Pattern of sevens:
Feature 1 - The passage contains 161 Greek words, or 23 x 7
Feature 2 - The gematria of these 161 words is 93,394, or 13,342 x 7
Feature 3 - The passage contains 77 vocabulary words, or 11 x 77
Feature 4 - The gematria of the vocabulary is 51,247, or 7,321 x 7
Feature 5 - The words of the passage appear in 105 forms
The following numerical features apply to the words spoken by the angel of the Lord:


Feature 6 - The angel uses 28 of the 77 vocabulary words of the passage, or 4 x 7
Feature 7 - The gematria of the words spoken by the angel is 21,042, or 3,006 x 7
Feature 8 - The angels uses 35 forms, or 5 x 7
Feature 9 - These 35 forms consist of 168 letters, or 24 x7
Feature 10 - These 35 forms have a gematria of 19,397, or 2,771 x 7
The probability of these 10 features of seven being in this passage by chance is 1 in 282,475,249

The passage contains 6 words found nowhere else in the gospel of Matthew.


Feature 11 - The gematria of these 6 words is 5,005, or 715 x 7
Feature 12 - These 6 words have 56 letters, or 8 x 7
The word "Emmanuel" is used nowhere else in the New Testament.


Feature 13 - The gematria of this word is 644, or 92 x 7
The probability of these 13 features of seven being in this passage by chance is 1 in 96,889,010,407
.................................................. .........................

http://www.revivalfellowship.org/The_Inspiration_of_the_Scriptures_Scientifically_D emonstrated.asp
The Inspiration of the Scriptures Scientifically Demonstrated
By Ivan Panin
For some months preceding Sunday, November 19th, 1899, the NEW YORK SUN had been devoting the better part of a page of its Sunday edition to the discussion of the truth of Christianity. On that date it printed a letter from one W.R.L., in which he denounced Christianity, using the old oft-refuted "arguments," and challenged "some champion of orthodoxy to come into the arena of the SUN," and give its readers some "facts" in defence of the Christian religion. The writer had not seen the NY SUN for years; but on his way from South Framingham to Grafton, Massachusetts, a copy of the SUN of that date, left on a vacant seat in the train, fell into his hands. The following letter met that challenge.

The letter was reprinted by the writer himself in a pamphlet of some fifty pages with the Greek text of Matthew 1:1-17 and the vocabularies thereto, enabling the scholarly reader to verify his statements for himself.

SIR: - In today's SUN Mr. W.R.L. calls for a "champion of orthodoxy" to "step into the arena of the SUN," and give him some facts:


1. The first 17 verses of the New Testament contain the genealogy of Christ. It consists of two main parts: Verses 1-11 cover the period from Abraham, the father of the chosen people, to the Captivity, when they ceased as an independent people. Verses 12-17 cover the period from the Captivity to the promised Deliverer, the Christ.
Let us examine the first part of this genealogy.

Its vocabulary has 49 words, or 7 x 7. This number is itself seven (Feature 1) sevens (Feature 2), and the sum of its factors is 2 sevens (Feature 3). Of these 49 words 28, or 4 sevens, begin with a vowel; and 21, or 3 sevens, begin with a consonant (Feature 4).

Again: These 49 words of the vocabulary have 266 letters, or 7 x 2 x 19; this number is itself 38 sevens (Feature 5), and the sum of its factors is 28, or 4 sevens (Feature 6), while the sum of its figures is 14, or 2 sevens (Feature 7). Of these 266 letters, moreover, 140, or 20 sevens, are vowels, and 126, or 18 sevens, are consonants (Feature 8).
That is to say: Just as the number of words in the vocabulary is a multiple of seven, so is the number of its letters a multiple of seven; just as the sum of the factors of the number of words is a multiple of seven, so is the sum of the factors of the number of their letters a multiple of seven. And just as the number of words is divided between vowel words and consonant words by seven, so is their number of letters divided between vowels and consonants by sevens.


Again: of these 49 words 35, or 5 sevens, occur more than once in the passage: and 14, or 2 sevens, occur but once (Feature 9); seven occur in more than one form, and 42, or 6 sevens, occur in only one form (Feature 10). And among the parts of speech the 49 words are thus divided: 42, or 6 sevens, are nouns, seven are not nouns (Feature 11). Of the nouns 35, or 5 sevens, are Proper names, seven are common nouns (Feature 12). Of the Proper names 28 are male ancestors of the Christ, and seven are not (Feature 13).

Moreover, these 49 words are distributed alphabetically thus. Words under - are in 21 in number, or 3 sevens; - 14 or 2 sevens; - also 14. No other groups of sevens stopping at the end of a letter are made by these 49 words, the groups of sevens stop with these letters and no others. But the letters, , , , , , , are letters 1, 5, 6, 10, 12, 22, of the Greek alphabet, and the sum of these numbers (called their Place Values) is 56, or 8 sevens (Feature 14).
This enumeration of the numeric phenomena of these 11 verses does not begin to be exhaustive, but enough has been shown to make it clear that this part of the genealogy is constructed on an elaborate design of sevens.

Let us now turn to the genealogy as a whole. I will not weary your readers with recounting all the numeric phenomena thereof: Pages alone would exhaust them. I will point out only one feature. The New Testament is written in Greek. The Greeks had no separate symbols for expressing numbers, corresponding to our Arabic figures, but used instead the letters of their alphabet: just as the Hebrews, in whose tongue the Old Testament is written, made use for the same purpose of theirs. Accordingly, the 24 Greek letters stand for the following numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800. Every Greek word is thus a sum in arithmetic obtained by adding the numbers for which its letters stand, or their numeric values. Now the vocabulary to the entire genealogy has 72 words. If we write its numeric value over each of these 72 words, and add them, we get for their sum 42,364, or 6,052 sevens, distributed into the following alphabetical groups only: - have 9,821, or 1,403 sevens; - , 1904, or 272 sevens; - , 3,703, or 529 sevens; - , 19,264, or 2,752 sevens; - , 7,672, or 1,096 sevens. But the numeric value of the 10 letters used for making these groups is 931, or 7 x 7 x 19, a multiple not only of seven but of seven sevens.

Let Mr. W.R.L. try to write some 300 words intelligently like this genealogy, and reproduce some numeric phenomena of like designs. If he does it in 6 months, he will indeed do a wonder. Let us assume that Matthew accomplished this feat in one month.


2. The second part of this chapter, verses 18-25, relates the birth of the Christ. It consists of 161 words, or 23 sevens; occurring in 105 forms, or 15 sevens, with a vocabulary of 77 words or 11 sevens. Joseph is spoken to here by an angel. Accordingly, of the 77 words the angel uses 28, or 4 sevens; of the 105 forms he uses 35, or 5 sevens; the numeric value of the vocabulary is 52,605, or 7,515 sevens; of the forms, 65,429, or 9,347 sevens.
This enumeration only begins as it were barely to scratch the surface of the numerics of this passage. But what is specially noteworthy here is the fact that the angel's speech has also a scheme of sevens making it a kind of ring within a ring, a wheel within a wheel. If Mr. L. can write a similar passage of 161 words with the same scheme of sevens alone (though there are several others hers) in some three years, he would accomplish a still greater wonder. Let us assume that Matthew accomplished this feat in only 6 months.


3. The second chapter of Matthew tells of the childhood of the Christ. Its vocabulary has 161 words, or 23 sevens, with 896 letters, or 128 sevens, and 238 forms, or 34 sevens; the numeric value of the vocabulary is 123,529, or 17,647 sevens; of the forms, 166,985, or 23,885 sevens; and so on through pages of enumeration. This chapter has at least four logical divisions, and each division shows alone the same phenomena found in the chapter as a whole. Thus the first six verses have a vocabulary of 56 words, or 8 sevens, etc. There are some speeches here: Herod speaks, the Magi speak, the angel speaks. But so pronounced are the numeric phenomena here, that though there are as it were numerous rings within rings, and wheels within wheels, each is perfect in itself though forming all the while only part of the rest.
If Mr. L. can write a chapter like this as naturally as Matthew writes, but containing in some 500 words so many intertwined yet harmonious numeric features, in say the rest of his days - whatever his age now, or the one to which he is to attain: if he thus accomplish it at all, it will indeed be marvel of marvels. Let us assume that Matthew accomplished this feat in only 3 years.


4. There is not, however, a single paragraph of the scores in Matthew that is not constructed in exactly the same manner. Only with each additional paragraph the difficulty of constructing it increases not in arithmetical, but in geometrical progression. For he contrives to write his paragraphs so as to develop constantly fixed numeric relations to what goes before and after. Thus in his last chapter he contrives to use just 7 words not used by hem before. It would thus be easy to show that Mr. L. would require some centuries to write a book like Matthew's. how long it took Matthew the writer does not know. But how he contrived to do it between the Crucifixion, AD 30 ( and his Gospel could not have been written earlier), and the destruction of Jerusalem, AD 70 (and the Gospel could not have been written later), let Mr. L. and his like-minded explain.
Anyhow, Matthew did it, and we thus have a miracle - an unheard-of literary, mathematical artist, unequalled, hardly even conceivable. This is the first fact for Mr. L. to contemplate.

A second fact is yet more important: In his very first section, the genealogy discussed above, the words found nowhere else in the New testament occur 42 times, 7 x 6; and have 126 letters, 7 x 6 x 3, each number a multiple not only of seven, but of 6 sevens, to name only two of the many numeric features of these words. But how did Matthew know, when designing this scheme for these words (whose sole characteristic is that they are found nowhere else in the New Testament) that they would not be found in the other 26 books? That they would not be used by the other 7 New Testament writers? Unless we assume the impossible hypothesis that he had an agreement with them to that effect, he must have had the rest of the New Testament before him when he wrote his book. The Gospel of Matthew, then, was written last.


5.It so happens, however, that the Gospel of Mark shows the very same phenomena. Thus the very passage called so triumphantly in today's SUN a "forgery," the Last Twelve Verses of Mark, presents among some sixty features of sevens the following phenomena: It has 175 words, or 25 sevens, a vocabulary of 98 words, or 2 sevens of sevens, with 553 letters, or 79 sevens; 133 forms, or 19 sevens, and so on to the minutest detail.
Mark, then, is another miracle, another unparalleled literary genius. And in the same way in which it was shown that Matthew wrote last it is also shown that Mark, too, wrote last. Thus to take an example from this very passage: It has just one word found nowhere else in the New Testament, , deadly. This fact is signalled by no less than seven features of sevens, thus: its numeric value is 581, or 83 sevens, with the sum of its figures 14, or 2 sevens, of which the letters 3, 5, 7, 9 from the beginning of the word have 490, or 7 x 7 x 5 x 2: a multiple of seven sevens, with the sum of its factors 21, or 3 sevens. In the vocabulary it is preceded by 42 words: 7 x 6; in the passage itself by 126 words, or 7 x 6 x 3, both numbers multiples not only of seven, but of 6 sevens. We has thus established before us this third fact for Mr. L. to contemplate: Matthew surely wrote after Mark, and Mark just as surely wrote after Matthew.


6. It happens, however, to be a fourth fact, that Luke presents the same phenomena as Matthew and Mark, and so do John, and James, and Peter, and Jude, and Paul. And we have thus no longer two great unheard-of mathematical literati, but eight of them and each wrote after the other.

7. And not only this: As Luke and Peter wrote each 2 books, John 5, and Paul 14, it can in the same way be shown that each of the 27 New Testament books was written last. In fact, not a page of the over 500 in Wescott and Hort's Greek edition (which the writer has used throughout) but it can be demonstrated thus to have been written last.
The phenomena are there and there is no human way of explaining them. Eight men cannot each write last, 27 books, some 500 pages, cannot each be written last. But once assume that one Mind directed the whole, and the problem is solved simply enough; but this Verbal Inspiration - of every jot and tittle of the New Testament.

There remains only to be added that by precisely the same kind of evidence the Hebrew Old Testament is proved to be equally inspired. This the very first verse of Genesis has seven words, 28 letters, or 4 sevens: to name only two out of the dozens of numeric features of this one verse of only seven words - NEW YORK SUN, November 21, 1899 - CORRECTED.

To this letter several replies appeared in the SUN, but not a single answer. For in only three ways can it be refuted.


By showing that the facts are not as here given.
By showing that it is possible for 8 men to write each after the other 7: for 27 books, or some 500 pages, to be each in turn written last.
By showing that even if the facts be true, the arithmetic faultless, and the collocation of the numerics honest, it does not follow that mere men could not have written this without Inspiration from above.
Accordingly, as many as nine noted rationalists (of whom Drs. Lyman Abbot and Charles W. Eliot are still living [now in 1927 {original date of publication of this pamphlet} also gone to where they may know] ) were respectfully but publicly invited to refute the writer. One was not "interested" in the writer's "arithmetical" doings; two "regretted" that they "had no time" to give heed thereto. Another "did not mean to be unkind," but ... The rest were silent. For the special benefit of these the writer printed the original data with numerous details, enabling them in the easiest manner to verify every statement made by him, if they wished. And to the best of his ability he has for years seen to it that no scholar whom surely these things specially concern should remain in ignorance of the facts here recounted, and of hundreds of like cogency.

A notable exception to the above is a lawyer of standing [now also dead], who books on Law are deemed as of authority. He had intelligence enough and candour withal to confess that the case for the Bible as made out by the writer is impregnable, that the Bible is thus proved to be an "absolutely unique book." This much the case itself extorts from the but too well equipped writer on - EVIDENCE; and accordingly he henceforth reads the writer's Numerics with intense appreciation. And then, fresh from this confession, he betakes himself once more to the circulation of his anti-Christian books in the writing of which he joys to spend his leisure hours.

In the second letter to the NY SUN the author, in discussing some irrelevant "answers" to his first letter, recited the three ways of refuting him and then continued:


"No sane man will try to refute me by the second method. To refute me by the first method I herewith respectfully invite any or all of the following to prove that my facts are not facts: namely Messrs. Lyman Abbott, Washington Gladden, Heber Newton, Minot J. Savage, Presidents Eliot of Harvard, White of Cornell, and Harper, the University of Chicago, Professor J. Henry Thayer of Harvard, and Dr. Briggs, and any other prominent higher critic so called. They may associate with themselves, if they choose, all the contributors of the ninth edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica who wrote its articles on Biblical subjects, together with a dozen mathematicians of the caliber of Professor Simon Newcomb. The heavier the caliber of either scholar or mathematician, the more satisfactory to me.

They will find that my facts are facts. And since they are facts, I am ready to take them to any three prominent lawyers, or, better still, to any judge of the Superior or Supreme Court, and abide by his decision as to whether the conclusion is not necessary that Inspiration alone can account for the facts, if they are facts.

All I should ask would be that the judge treat the case as he would any other case that comes before him: declining to admit matters for discussion as irrelevant when they are irrelevant; and listening patiently to both sides, as he does in any trial."


more on the numerics... http://www.revivalfellowship.org/Bible_Numerics.asp


There is so much informaton out there on so many things in creation to clearly show God's footprint on everything that there are no excuses at all. If you humble yourself, get on your knees and prasy, ask God to open your heart to the truth and He will give you the gift of the Holy Spirit. Most people though are too prod to admit they have a Creator because it infers you have accountable, but whether you wish to admit it or not! One day you will answer and you have no excuses.

[Aratron]

@ Massplanck

(I sometimes wonder why some people who believe in God wont even entertain the idea that God might have actually invented\kickstarted evolution.)

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp HERE IS ONE SOURCE FOR YOU TO LOOK AT. THE FACT IS MACROEVOLUTION IS A BLIND FAITH AND IF YOU REMOVE ALL THE FALSE HEADLINES IN THE MAINSTREAM SCIENCE JOURNALS AND THE HYPE AND ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE DATA YOU WILL SEE THAT THE CLAIMS OF THE EVOLUTION RELIGION ARE LUDICROUS AND DO NOT MATCH THE DATA AVAILABLE NOR LOGICAL COMMON SENSE. ESPECIALLY CHECK THIS LINK http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/infotheory.asp If you are not going to read them, then don’t bother replying because I won’t take the time to answer your comments either. If you want the truth, then you analyse everything.


(i want a date for your doomsday. Last days my hole. 1 year? 2 years? 10 years? 30 years? You tell me buddy. Gimme a date now.)

Mar 13:32 "But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
Mar 13:33 Be on guard, keep awake. For you do not know when the time will come.
Mar 13:34 It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to stay awake.
Mar 13:35 Therefore stay awake--for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning--
Mar 13:36 lest he come suddenly and find you asleep.
Mar 13:37 And what I say to you I say to all: Stay awake."



(I'll tell you what, while you are sitting there on your high horse while waiting for the sky to fall on you ill be going about my business doing me best to helping others out of hell on earth. Before you call me a sinner.. I dont watch TV, I have been faithfull to my GF for 9 years. I *pray*/meditate to a higher thing or being, I give money to charity and do my best to help people.)

You are pathetic to say high horse. You had absolutely no justification for saying it whatsoever and your argument falls flat because you know nothing about me. I don’t watch tv either pal, except the odd sport game. I don’t drink, smoke, take drugs or cheat anyone. I give to the poor and always welcome people. I share the Gospel with everyone I can out of love because I know what end is coming. So for you to say I am just sitting here doing nothing on my so-called high horse – well what a joke and how wrong it is. It is so foolish and out of place to even assert that I was boasting about being saved. That is pathetic. My whole line of argument was to help others. Did you not also see the word document I posted for others to read what it says in the Bible with regards to salvation? The fact you would rather worship Satan says a lot about you and your irrational train of thought. As for those you assume have not heard the Gospel – there are many missionaries out there and if they are unable to hear it, then God will judge them accordingly in his righteous and holy way – but you cannot use the same excuse! You heard the Gospel, but cast it away, so you have no excuses.

(The best christians are the one whp help the sick and needy not the ones ones who boast how "saved" they are and everyone else is doomed. Fcuking ridoculous.. tbh i'd rather worship satan than worship a god who forgot to tell people in Asia & South American about Jesus.)

Not at all. Who are we trying to please? You or God? God said there is only one way to enter heaven. You must be born of water and the Spirit! In doing this and being right in the sight of God, we then live a life like you suggested. But being a ‘good person’ is not enough because Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


@ Force

You are the naive one. I do wonder if you even know what self-righteous even means because two of you have misused the word terribly.

2Pe 3:3 knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires.
2Pe 3:4 They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation."
2Pe 3:5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God,
2Pe 3:6 and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
2Pe 3:7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
2Pe 3:8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.

@ Eddowion

There is a way to know Pal, if you saw those healings and miracles you would be bowled over mate. Also receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues (not like that idiot borat and that false set up). The fact the scriptures are numerically perfect in the Greek and Hebrew and no computer can actually do it, but only notice it.


.................................................. ......................................
http://www.revivalfellowship.org/Matthew_Chapter_118_25.asp
Numerics test applied to
Matthew Chapter 1:18-25
18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just [man], and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. {conceived: Gr. begotten} 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. {JESUS: that is, Saviour, Heb} 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. {they...: or, his name shall be called} 24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

The first chapter of the gospel of Matthew tells the story of the lineage of Jesus and of His birth. This chapter separates naturally into two major divisions.

The first major division, verses 1 to 17, contains the record of Christ's lineage and these verses further divide into two sections, being verses 1 - 11 and verses 12 - 17. Whilst all these natural divisions each contain significant numerical features, we will focus on the second major division of the chapter being verses 18 - 25. This passage depicts the birth of Jesus Christ.


Pattern of sevens:
Feature 1 - The passage contains 161 Greek words, or 23 x 7
Feature 2 - The gematria of these 161 words is 93,394, or 13,342 x 7
Feature 3 - The passage contains 77 vocabulary words, or 11 x 77
Feature 4 - The gematria of the vocabulary is 51,247, or 7,321 x 7
Feature 5 - The words of the passage appear in 105 forms
The following numerical features apply to the words spoken by the angel of the Lord:


Feature 6 - The angel uses 28 of the 77 vocabulary words of the passage, or 4 x 7
Feature 7 - The gematria of the words spoken by the angel is 21,042, or 3,006 x 7
Feature 8 - The angels uses 35 forms, or 5 x 7
Feature 9 - These 35 forms consist of 168 letters, or 24 x7
Feature 10 - These 35 forms have a gematria of 19,397, or 2,771 x 7
The probability of these 10 features of seven being in this passage by chance is 1 in 282,475,249

The passage contains 6 words found nowhere else in the gospel of Matthew.


Feature 11 - The gematria of these 6 words is 5,005, or 715 x 7
Feature 12 - These 6 words have 56 letters, or 8 x 7
The word "Emmanuel" is used nowhere else in the New Testament.


Feature 13 - The gematria of this word is 644, or 92 x 7
The probability of these 13 features of seven being in this passage by chance is 1 in 96,889,010,407
.................................................. .........................

http://www.revivalfellowship.org/The_Inspiration_of_the_Scriptures_Scientifically_D emonstrated.asp
The Inspiration of the Scriptures Scientifically Demonstrated
By Ivan Panin
For some months preceding Sunday, November 19th, 1899, the NEW YORK SUN had been devoting the better part of a page of its Sunday edition to the discussion of the truth of Christianity. On that date it printed a letter from one W.R.L., in which he denounced Christianity, using the old oft-refuted "arguments," and challenged "some champion of orthodoxy to come into the arena of the SUN," and give its readers some "facts" in defence of the Christian religion. The writer had not seen the NY SUN for years; but on his way from South Framingham to Grafton, Massachusetts, a copy of the SUN of that date, left on a vacant seat in the train, fell into his hands. The following letter met that challenge.

The letter was reprinted by the writer himself in a pamphlet of some fifty pages with the Greek text of Matthew 1:1-17 and the vocabularies thereto, enabling the scholarly reader to verify his statements for himself.

SIR: - In today's SUN Mr. W.R.L. calls for a "champion of orthodoxy" to "step into the arena of the SUN," and give him some facts:


1. The first 17 verses of the New Testament contain the genealogy of Christ. It consists of two main parts: Verses 1-11 cover the period from Abraham, the father of the chosen people, to the Captivity, when they ceased as an independent people. Verses 12-17 cover the period from the Captivity to the promised Deliverer, the Christ.
Let us examine the first part of this genealogy.

Its vocabulary has 49 words, or 7 x 7. This number is itself seven (Feature 1) sevens (Feature 2), and the sum of its factors is 2 sevens (Feature 3). Of these 49 words 28, or 4 sevens, begin with a vowel; and 21, or 3 sevens, begin with a consonant (Feature 4).

Again: These 49 words of the vocabulary have 266 letters, or 7 x 2 x 19; this number is itself 38 sevens (Feature 5), and the sum of its factors is 28, or 4 sevens (Feature 6), while the sum of its figures is 14, or 2 sevens (Feature 7). Of these 266 letters, moreover, 140, or 20 sevens, are vowels, and 126, or 18 sevens, are consonants (Feature 8).
That is to say: Just as the number of words in the vocabulary is a multiple of seven, so is the number of its letters a multiple of seven; just as the sum of the factors of the number of words is a multiple of seven, so is the sum of the factors of the number of their letters a multiple of seven. And just as the number of words is divided between vowel words and consonant words by seven, so is their number of letters divided between vowels and consonants by sevens.


Again: of these 49 words 35, or 5 sevens, occur more than once in the passage: and 14, or 2 sevens, occur but once (Feature 9); seven occur in more than one form, and 42, or 6 sevens, occur in only one form (Feature 10). And among the parts of speech the 49 words are thus divided: 42, or 6 sevens, are nouns, seven are not nouns (Feature 11). Of the nouns 35, or 5 sevens, are Proper names, seven are common nouns (Feature 12). Of the Proper names 28 are male ancestors of the Christ, and seven are not (Feature 13).

Moreover, these 49 words are distributed alphabetically thus. Words under - are in 21 in number, or 3 sevens; - 14 or 2 sevens; - also 14. No other groups of sevens stopping at the end of a letter are made by these 49 words, the groups of sevens stop with these letters and no others. But the letters, , , , , , , are letters 1, 5, 6, 10, 12, 22, of the Greek alphabet, and the sum of these numbers (called their Place Values) is 56, or 8 sevens (Feature 14).
This enumeration of the numeric phenomena of these 11 verses does not begin to be exhaustive, but enough has been shown to make it clear that this part of the genealogy is constructed on an elaborate design of sevens.

Let us now turn to the genealogy as a whole. I will not weary your readers with recounting all the numeric phenomena thereof: Pages alone would exhaust them. I will point out only one feature. The New Testament is written in Greek. The Greeks had no separate symbols for expressing numbers, corresponding to our Arabic figures, but used instead the letters of their alphabet: just as the Hebrews, in whose tongue the Old Testament is written, made use for the same purpose of theirs. Accordingly, the 24 Greek letters stand for the following numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800. Every Greek word is thus a sum in arithmetic obtained by adding the numbers for which its letters stand, or their numeric values. Now the vocabulary to the entire genealogy has 72 words. If we write its numeric value over each of these 72 words, and add them, we get for their sum 42,364, or 6,052 sevens, distributed into the following alphabetical groups only: - have 9,821, or 1,403 sevens; - , 1904, or 272 sevens; - , 3,703, or 529 sevens; - , 19,264, or 2,752 sevens; - , 7,672, or 1,096 sevens. But the numeric value of the 10 letters used for making these groups is 931, or 7 x 7 x 19, a multiple not only of seven but of seven sevens.

Let Mr. W.R.L. try to write some 300 words intelligently like this genealogy, and reproduce some numeric phenomena of like designs. If he does it in 6 months, he will indeed do a wonder. Let us assume that Matthew accomplished this feat in one month.


2. The second part of this chapter, verses 18-25, relates the birth of the Christ. It consists of 161 words, or 23 sevens; occurring in 105 forms, or 15 sevens, with a vocabulary of 77 words or 11 sevens. Joseph is spoken to here by an angel. Accordingly, of the 77 words the angel uses 28, or 4 sevens; of the 105 forms he uses 35, or 5 sevens; the numeric value of the vocabulary is 52,605, or 7,515 sevens; of the forms, 65,429, or 9,347 sevens.
This enumeration only begins as it were barely to scratch the surface of the numerics of this passage. But what is specially noteworthy here is the fact that the angel's speech has also a scheme of sevens making it a kind of ring within a ring, a wheel within a wheel. If Mr. L. can write a similar passage of 161 words with the same scheme of sevens alone (though there are several others hers) in some three years, he would accomplish a still greater wonder. Let us assume that Matthew accomplished this feat in only 6 months.


3. The second chapter of Matthew tells of the childhood of the Christ. Its vocabulary has 161 words, or 23 sevens, with 896 letters, or 128 sevens, and 238 forms, or 34 sevens; the numeric value of the vocabulary is 123,529, or 17,647 sevens; of the forms, 166,985, or 23,885 sevens; and so on through pages of enumeration. This chapter has at least four logical divisions, and each division shows alone the same phenomena found in the chapter as a whole. Thus the first six verses have a vocabulary of 56 words, or 8 sevens, etc. There are some speeches here: Herod speaks, the Magi speak, the angel speaks. But so pronounced are the numeric phenomena here, that though there are as it were numerous rings within rings, and wheels within wheels, each is perfect in itself though forming all the while only part of the rest.
If Mr. L. can write a chapter like this as naturally as Matthew writes, but containing in some 500 words so many intertwined yet harmonious numeric features, in say the rest of his days - whatever his age now, or the one to which he is to attain: if he thus accomplish it at all, it will indeed be marvel of marvels. Let us assume that Matthew accomplished this feat in only 3 years.


4. There is not, however, a single paragraph of the scores in Matthew that is not constructed in exactly the same manner. Only with each additional paragraph the difficulty of constructing it increases not in arithmetical, but in geometrical progression. For he contrives to write his paragraphs so as to develop constantly fixed numeric relations to what goes before and after. Thus in his last chapter he contrives to use just 7 words not used by hem before. It would thus be easy to show that Mr. L. would require some centuries to write a book like Matthew's. how long it took Matthew the writer does not know. But how he contrived to do it between the Crucifixion, AD 30 ( and his Gospel could not have been written earlier), and the destruction of Jerusalem, AD 70 (and the Gospel could not have been written later), let Mr. L. and his like-minded explain.
Anyhow, Matthew did it, and we thus have a miracle - an unheard-of literary, mathematical artist, unequalled, hardly even conceivable. This is the first fact for Mr. L. to contemplate.

A second fact is yet more important: In his very first section, the genealogy discussed above, the words found nowhere else in the New testament occur 42 times, 7 x 6; and have 126 letters, 7 x 6 x 3, each number a multiple not only of seven, but of 6 sevens, to name only two of the many numeric features of these words. But how did Matthew know, when designing this scheme for these words (whose sole characteristic is that they are found nowhere else in the New Testament) that they would not be found in the other 26 books? That they would not be used by the other 7 New Testament writers? Unless we assume the impossible hypothesis that he had an agreement with them to that effect, he must have had the rest of the New Testament before him when he wrote his book. The Gospel of Matthew, then, was written last.


5.It so happens, however, that the Gospel of Mark shows the very same phenomena. Thus the very passage called so triumphantly in today's SUN a "forgery," the Last Twelve Verses of Mark, presents among some sixty features of sevens the following phenomena: It has 175 words, or 25 sevens, a vocabulary of 98 words, or 2 sevens of sevens, with 553 letters, or 79 sevens; 133 forms, or 19 sevens, and so on to the minutest detail.
Mark, then, is another miracle, another unparalleled literary genius. And in the same way in which it was shown that Matthew wrote last it is also shown that Mark, too, wrote last. Thus to take an example from this very passage: It has just one word found nowhere else in the New Testament, , deadly. This fact is signalled by no less than seven features of sevens, thus: its numeric value is 581, or 83 sevens, with the sum of its figures 14, or 2 sevens, of which the letters 3, 5, 7, 9 from the beginning of the word have 490, or 7 x 7 x 5 x 2: a multiple of seven sevens, with the sum of its factors 21, or 3 sevens. In the vocabulary it is preceded by 42 words: 7 x 6; in the passage itself by 126 words, or 7 x 6 x 3, both numbers multiples not only of seven, but of 6 sevens. We has thus established before us this third fact for Mr. L. to contemplate: Matthew surely wrote after Mark, and Mark just as surely wrote after Matthew.


6. It happens, however, to be a fourth fact, that Luke presents the same phenomena as Matthew and Mark, and so do John, and James, and Peter, and Jude, and Paul. And we have thus no longer two great unheard-of mathematical literati, but eight of them and each wrote after the other.

7. And not only this: As Luke and Peter wrote each 2 books, John 5, and Paul 14, it can in the same way be shown that each of the 27 New Testament books was written last. In fact, not a page of the over 500 in Wescott and Hort's Greek edition (which the writer has used throughout) but it can be demonstrated thus to have been written last.
The phenomena are there and there is no human way of explaining them. Eight men cannot each write last, 27 books, some 500 pages, cannot each be written last. But once assume that one Mind directed the whole, and the problem is solved simply enough; but this Verbal Inspiration - of every jot and tittle of the New Testament.

There remains only to be added that by precisely the same kind of evidence the Hebrew Old Testament is proved to be equally inspired. This the very first verse of Genesis has seven words, 28 letters, or 4 sevens: to name only two out of the dozens of numeric features of this one verse of only seven words - NEW YORK SUN, November 21, 1899 - CORRECTED.

To this letter several replies appeared in the SUN, but not a single answer. For in only three ways can it be refuted.


By showing that the facts are not as here given.
By showing that it is possible for 8 men to write each after the other 7: for 27 books, or some 500 pages, to be each in turn written last.
By showing that even if the facts be true, the arithmetic faultless, and the collocation of the numerics honest, it does not follow that mere men could not have written this without Inspiration from above.
Accordingly, as many as nine noted rationalists (of whom Drs. Lyman Abbot and Charles W. Eliot are still living [now in 1927 {original date of publication of this pamphlet} also gone to where they may know] ) were respectfully but publicly invited to refute the writer. One was not "interested" in the writer's "arithmetical" doings; two "regretted" that they "had no time" to give heed thereto. Another "did not mean to be unkind," but ... The rest were silent. For the special benefit of these the writer printed the original data with numerous details, enabling them in the easiest manner to verify every statement made by him, if they wished. And to the best of his ability he has for years seen to it that no scholar whom surely these things specially concern should remain in ignorance of the facts here recounted, and of hundreds of like cogency.

A notable exception to the above is a lawyer of standing [now also dead], who books on Law are deemed as of authority. He had intelligence enough and candour withal to confess that the case for the Bible as made out by the writer is impregnable, that the Bible is thus proved to be an "absolutely unique book." This much the case itself extorts from the but too well equipped writer on - EVIDENCE; and accordingly he henceforth reads the writer's Numerics with intense appreciation. And then, fresh from this confession, he betakes himself once more to the circulation of his anti-Christian books in the writing of which he joys to spend his leisure hours.

In the second letter to the NY SUN the author, in discussing some irrelevant "answers" to his first letter, recited the three ways of refuting him and then continued:


"No sane man will try to refute me by the second method. To refute me by the first method I herewith respectfully invite any or all of the following to prove that my facts are not facts: namely Messrs. Lyman Abbott, Washington Gladden, Heber Newton, Minot J. Savage, Presidents Eliot of Harvard, White of Cornell, and Harper, the University of Chicago, Professor J. Henry Thayer of Harvard, and Dr. Briggs, and any other prominent higher critic so called. They may associate with themselves, if they choose, all the contributors of the ninth edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica who wrote its articles on Biblical subjects, together with a dozen mathematicians of the caliber of Professor Simon Newcomb. The heavier the caliber of either scholar or mathematician, the more satisfactory to me.

They will find that my facts are facts. And since they are facts, I am ready to take them to any three prominent lawyers, or, better still, to any judge of the Superior or Supreme Court, and abide by his decision as to whether the conclusion is not necessary that Inspiration alone can account for the facts, if they are facts.

All I should ask would be that the judge treat the case as he would any other case that comes before him: declining to admit matters for discussion as irrelevant when they are irrelevant; and listening patiently to both sides, as he does in any trial."


more on the numerics... http://www.revivalfellowship.org/Bible_Numerics.asp


There is so much informaton out there on so many things in creation to clearly show God's footprint on everything that there are no excuses at all. If you humble yourself, get on your knees and prasy, ask God to open your heart to the truth and He will give you the gift of the Holy Spirit. Most people though are too prod to admit they have a Creator because it infers you have accountable, but whether you wish to admit it or not! One day you will answer and you have no excuses.


word

[Eddowion]

word
Don't you mean "number"?

[Eddowion]

I have a theory, it came to me in a dream.

It goes like this:-

+ (Plus) = x (Times)

The proof of this is:-
2 + 2 = 4 and
2 x 2 = 4

Therefore + must equal x

I absolutely refuse to listen to any argument or acknowledge any evidence to the contrary.

[Aratron]

I have a theory, it came to me in a dream.

It goes like this:-

+ (Plus) = x (Times)

The proof of this is:-
2 + 2 = 4 and
2 x 2 = 4

Therefore + must equal x

I absolutely refuse to listen to any argument or acknowledge any evidence to the contrary.

philistine

[phantomdj]

I have a theory, it came to me in a dream.

It goes like this:-

+ (Plus) = x (Times)

The proof of this is:-
2 + 2 = 4 and
2 x 2 = 4

Therefore + must equal x

I absolutely refuse to listen to any argument or acknowledge any evidence to the contrary.


If that's some kind of argument against what i posted, then it's weak and feeble. Clearly you skimmed over things and did not read it. I'm not here to post tit for tat. The substance is in previous posts. There will be someone out there who can see the truth and it is for their benefit i posted on here.

[Eddowion]

philistine
Now now you know the rules, no personal attacks, even if they are complimentary.

[Eddowion]

If that's some kind of argument against what i posted, then it's weak and feeble. Clearly you skimmed over things and did not read it. I'm not here to post tit for tat. The substance is in previous posts. There will be someone out there who can see the truth and it is for their benefit i posted on here.
No not an argument........a trap, I knew someone would fall for it.
Just humour, it was getting a bit heavy for a thread about the Chelsea coach.

[Aratron]

No not an argument........a trap, I knew someone would fall for it.
Just humour, it was getting a bit heavy for a thread about the Chelsea coach.

burn the heretic

[Eddowion]

burn the heretic
It gets better........cheers bro

[Aratron]

It gets better........cheers bro

blaspheme

[Eddowion]

Point me toward my blasphemous post plz.

[Aratron]

Point me toward my blasphemous post plz.

sacrilege

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1134856/god_hates_fags.jpg

[Eddowion]

Oh I see, he hates gay priests too does he?

[Aratron]

Oh I see, he hates gay priests too does he?

silence vile sodomite

[Eddowion]

silence vile sodomite
OK:byesad:

[phantomdj]

It is irrational and downright crazy to have a 'gay priest'.... The scriptures are clear on this issue. That T-shirt is silly though.

Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
Rom 1:29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
Rom 1:32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1Ti 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
1Ti 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
1Ti 1:11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

[Aratron]

OK:byesad:

lolz:;

[Eddowion]

Several points
I have no axe to grind, I am not gay and actually find what they get up to distasteful.
However, according to British law, it's not illegal.
Irrational and crazy it may be but gay priests are here now and likely to stay.
Romans 1:26 - 32, were these words written and published today, the likelihood is the author would be up on a charge of homophobia and publishing material of a sexist nature.
If someone chooses to live their life in a manner laid down by the scriptures, fine, arguably they would be a better person for it. However, the law is made by parliament and the courts, not the bible.
We just have to accept each others differences and beliefs and get along.

Yours sincerely
Captain Creosote

[Aratron]

It is irrational and downright crazy to have a 'gay priest'.... The scriptures are clear on this issue. That T-shirt is silly though.

Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
Rom 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
Rom 1:29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.
Rom 1:32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

1Ti 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,
1Ti 1:9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,
1Ti 1:10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
1Ti 1:11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

looks like im pretty much ****ed then. **** god.

[Aratron]

Several points
I have no axe to grind, I am not gay and actually find what they get up to distasteful.


wtf? what business is it of yours?