Hardware compressors

[tonyc2002]

Are there any hardware compressors that have a side chain feature? can anyone give me some examples?

[Mugen]

Are there any hardware compressors that have a side chain feature? can anyone give me some examples?

Well, Sidechaining isn't actually a digital or software concept so the majority of Hardware compressors have sidechaining or an external insert , Try looking at the DBX 1066 it's pretty dam good and fairly affrodable.:)

[benjames]

I like the compounder at £299, with the dbx 1066 £349 probalby the best entry level ones going
both with sidechain of course

[xfive]

if you can find them, tc triple c. You'll have to find them used since they don't make them anymore.

They come in Mono and Stereo, and can sidechain.

[christian wagner]

Urie, Summit audio, Focusrite, DBX.....

[dirty_bass]

Wouldn`t spend anything less than 500 quid on a hardware compressor, otherwise software is much better.

[tekara]

if you can find them, tc triple c. You'll have to find them used since they don't make them anymore.

They come in Mono and Stereo, and can sidechain.

I had the Triple C and used it religiously until i bought a Waves SSL compressor plugin. After that, i stopped using the Triple C but i would still never get rid of it.

Awesome piece of hardware at an affordable price.

[benjames]

Wouldn`t spend anything less than 500 quid on a hardware compressor, otherwise software is much better.

better than a standard vst / rtas, or do you mean the UAD / DSP cards

[dirty_bass]

Well for the money, you can`t beat the sonalksis stereo compressor.
It is one of the very very few vsti compressors that truly handles like hardware.
The way it handles transients and the way the attack works is just amazing.
Can`t emphasise enough how amazing this compressor is.
DSP cards are great too. I`ve got the Liquid Mix, which is simply amazing.
URS compressors are really nice.

Voxengo Marquis is a really stunning compressor, and again has a very good hardware like response.

[tekara]

i 2nd the URS recommendation.

I had to choose between a URS and Waves SSL, but went for the SSL simply because i liked the skin better.

But both compressors are killer. I rarely even use my TC Triple C anymores.

[Radic]

Well for the money, you can`t beat the sonalksis stereo compressor.
It is one of the very very few vsti compressors that truly handles like hardware.
The way it handles transients and the way the attack works is just amazing.
Can`t emphasise enough how amazing this compressor is.
.

I noticed that the attack stage on this compressor has a maximum speed of 50ms. Isn't this a bit limiting, especially when you want to compress your drums. I'd have thought you'd want a faster compressor than that?

[dirty_bass]

Actually the attack is .5ms on the Sonalksis and it`s about THE best software compressor for drums along with the MArquis

As for the gamble between the SSL and URS, no competition there.
With the SSL you get the SSL bus compressor, completely useless for techno.
Good for pop mixes.
Everyone has jumped on the SSL stuff suddenly, because they`ve heard SSL is a massive name in studios.
But most don`t realise it`s applications in terms of the music. The SSL kit is great, but I wouldn`t say it is the most appropriate for techno.
The URS compressors are much better.

[Radic]

Actually the attack is .5ms on the Sonalksis and it`s about THE best software compressor for drums along with the MArquis



My apologies i made a mistake. I meant to say the release can't go faster than 50ms. For that sucking techno drum sound i'd have thought a faster release would be necessary to get the required techno sound. Somewhere around 10ms would be nice.

[dirty_bass]

50 ms is more than enough.
Faster than a lot of hardware compressors.
It`s the auto release that is special.
You should rarely need to go lower than 50ms, anything lower than that tends to be too abrupt and is prone to clicking and popping.
Maybe down to 20 when you are using the compressor for specific surgical tasks, but then you would want something clean and solid state based rather than vintage and tubey.
50ms is more than anough for sucking breathing and pumping. If you know what you are doing.
Like I said, this thing behaves more like decent old hardware than any other vsti I know of. It`s simply amazing on drums.
I pretty much only used that compressor until I got the Liquid Mix.

[stjohn]

tried the URS stuf alright but i didnt take to them..

but the Sonalksis stuff is a different story.. the sv315 is my goto for everything pretty much!

ive thought about going hardware.. but i imagine they are more hassle than theyre worth.. if you want to slightly compress a single channel.. route -> bounce->reimport etc etc.. instead of plonk the VST on.. plus if u need to change the settings theyn you have to go tthrough the rigmorold!!


then again if i had the $$ id like to have a nice patchbay with a few classics comps!!

[dirty_bass]

**** hardware anyway.
They`ve nearly cracked the hardware compressor behaviour fully with this
http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php?mode=show&id=2612
give it a few versions (so they get the damn cpu load down), and the compression special version they are doing later down the line, and we`ll be laughing.

Proper hardware heads are going crazy about this.

Even Katz is excited!!!

[RichNH]

digital will never crack the behaviour of Analog outboard!!! Maybe next generation when 'quantum computers' get invented but until then....
Even my crappy Drawmer DL241 kicks waves' arse

[dirty_bass]

Not true at all.
Try telling that to bob katz, and roger nichols. Extremely highly respected mastering engineers in the world, and advocates (and indeed developers) of the digital revolution.


In fact the Waves maximiser is so popular in all studios it has been made into a hardware version for the soft-o-phobes.

But this isn`t the place for the rather tedious analog versus digital debate.

The only advice I would give is to make sure you use good quality plug ins, and having a knowledge of the hardware sound, or owning some will give you a better insight into which plugins behave like their old skool counterparts.

[benjames]

Isnt it impossible to recreate the sound / feel of the analogue compression process, the foundation of what techno was built on?

Surely any digital platform trying to recreate this is imitation, why not go for the real thing

Regardless of any digital vs analogue argument, why have burgers when there is steak available?

[BloodStar]

Surely any digital platform trying to recreate this is imitation, why not go for the real thing

Regardless of any digital vs analogue argument, why have burgers when there is steak available?
In case you have got crappy DA and AD converter, I guess you are loosing the bits you think you add with using HW, so its good to stay ITB, imo.
There is plenty of top stuff SW compressor these days as was said. I like URS the most together with Sonalksis and also KjaerhusUniPressor with sidechain ability....

[dirty_bass]

Isnt it impossible to recreate the sound / feel of the analogue compression process, the foundation of what techno was built on?

Surely any digital platform trying to recreate this is imitation, why not go for the real thing

Regardless of any digital vs analogue argument, why have burgers when there is steak available?

no it`s not impossible at all.
It`s all based on electricity not magic.
It all comes down to the complexity of the algorythms and reducing cpu load.

I kinda get sick of saying this really.

I was trained/worked/almost lived in a fully analog studio for 4 years.
The owner bacame a very good friend of mine, and taught me loads.
Fully analog.

Sequencing, desk, everything was totally analog. It was a cable nightmare, but it tuned my ears to the old skool sound processes.

I have no problem in identifying the plugins that do the analog sound well.
Ignoring advertising hype helps, and just using your ears instead.

Since I got my liquid mix I`m very happy with the compressor performance, and although the emulations of kit aren`t exactly the same as the stuff it is supposed to emulate (which even if re-manufactered, would be hard to copy exactly) it doesn`t really matter as it`s the behaviour and texture I am interested in. Which to my ears sounds phat, warm with that characteristic attack of the old school.

The best bet though, is to ignor the hype that plug ins manufacterers spin, and take advice from pro users, or try yourself.

People epect magic buttons these days.
"If I buy this, then it will make my sound pro" etc

Hardware or analog, you won`t get shit all useful out of it unless you know what you are doing.

[dirty_bass]

As for products, I cannot stress the importance of this http://www.acusticaudio.net/modules.php?name=Products&file=nebula3

currently very heavy on the cpu, but it truly is amazing, and I`m sure it will be made more effeicient as time goes on.
This is an amazing product and bodes well for the future of digital music.

http://www.fluxhome.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=5&Itemid=36
is also great, the Flux Solera, and Pure Compressor are truly outstanding applications.

Also this is fantastic
http://magnus.smartelectronix.com/
the MJCompressor
Terrible GUI but an amazingly smooth sound can be had for subtle mastering and tracking

[tekara]

Actually the attack is .5ms on the Sonalksis and it`s about THE best software compressor for drums along with the MArquis

As for the gamble between the SSL and URS, no competition there.
With the SSL you get the SSL bus compressor, completely useless for techno.
Good for pop mixes.
Everyone has jumped on the SSL stuff suddenly, because they`ve heard SSL is a massive name in studios.
But most don`t realise it`s applications in terms of the music. The SSL kit is great, but I wouldn`t say it is the most appropriate for techno.
The URS compressors are much better.

sorry, but i completely disagree. The SSL has done some amazing things for my mixes. Besides just saying it is "completely useless" for techno without offering any insight, maybe you can offer some explanation into your theory.

I never believe anything is useless. It would be like me saying dont ever use a certain branded mixer, drum machine, synthesizer, EQ or any effect or instrument for that matter.

[RDR]

no it`s not impossible at all.
It`s all based on electricity not magic.
It all comes down to the complexity of the algorythms and reducing cpu load.

I kinda get sick of saying this really.

I was trained/worked/almost lived in a fully analog studio for 4 years.
The owner bacame a very good friend of mine, and taught me loads.
Fully analog.

Sequencing, desk, everything was totally analog. It was a cable nightmare, but it tuned my ears to the old skool sound processes.

I have no problem in identifying the plugins that do the analog sound well.
Ignoring advertising hype helps, and just using your ears instead.

Since I got my liquid mix I`m very happy with the compressor performance, and although the emulations of kit aren`t exactly the same as the stuff it is supposed to emulate (which even if re-manufactered, would be hard to copy exactly) it doesn`t really matter as it`s the behaviour and texture I am interested in. Which to my ears sounds phat, warm with that characteristic attack of the old school.

The best bet though, is to ignor the hype that plug ins manufacterers spin, and take advice from pro users, or try yourself.

People epect magic buttons these days.
"If I buy this, then it will make my sound pro" etc

Hardware or analog, you won`t get shit all useful out of it unless you know what you are doing.

Tell me more about the liquid mix plz steve, ive been considering it for a while now.

specifically i'd like to know:

What platform you use it on
What sequencer you use it with and how it integrates
Latency issues
Automation issues
Maximum processing power available
General usability of the device

PS - i'd like to add that compression should also be a dynamic , dynamics process, rather than a 'fire and forget' thing. And of course your compressor is only as good as to programme material that you run through it.

Thanks

[SamL]

That flux stuff is well good, i use that free plugin they offer "bittersweet" as a nice transient shaper when workeing with sampled drums for breaks etc.

I have been putting off buying the sonalksis compressor for ages, its definitely next on my list of stuff to grab. just migrated to logic and mac so all my money has gone on that - the built in logic gear is alright - used the sonalksis demo and like it a lot. it seems to preserve transients yet raise the rms power sensibly. very nice.

i can also heartily recommend the FREE kjaerhus plugs, very nice quality to them.

(1st post - hello!)

[benjames]

.

I kinda get sick of saying this really.

Hardware or analog, you won`t get shit all useful out of it unless you know what you are doing.

If your sick of saying it why join a discussion about hardware compression championing software compression. It is clear that people are going to challenge your comments being as anyone interested in hardware (ie the people you are sick of explaining to) are going to look into a tread challed hardware compression.

As for the algorithm argument, i honestly think you are getting lost in the detail, i respect your comments and for the most part agree with what you are saying however isnt it the complexity of the algorithm's vs CPU load the area in which digital processes will always fail over analogue processes (with no CPU load).

Using analogue compression does not need to be a lengthy process nor does it mean your whole studio has to be analogue, a small analogue mixing desk for next to nothing means you can have your digital outputs on 1 track (or more) and then different tracks (kick / bass) can be routed through the hardware comp to seperate tracks on the mixer, the output of the mixer then back to the input of the SC.

I love digital compression and it has its place, but using digital compression to emulate analogue compression to me just seems pointless.

[dirty_bass]

Well to be honest, there`s no analog compressor under 500 quid worth getting that isn`t bettered by software.
Once I sold all my hardware I considered going back to analog outboard when I took up mastering as a profession, however, the only compressors I found worth having were 1500 and up, everything less than that I bettered with extensive trials of software.

As for the SSL being useless, well that was a bit of an exaguration, the SSL plugs are great, but I just don`t think they are best applied to techno. The EQ`s on their own are great though, it`s the compression I don`t really think is good for techno.
I`d have gone for the Sonox stuff personally.

As for talking about software in a hardware discussion, my advice was to spend over 500 or save the money and buy software.

[rhythmtech]

Well to be honest, there`s no analog compressor under 500 quid worth getting that isn`t bettered by software.
Once I sold all my hardware I considered going back to analog outboard when I took up mastering as a profession, however, the only compressors I found worth having were 1500 and up, everything less than that I bettered with extensive trials of software.

As for the SSL being useless, well that was a bit of an exaguration, the SSL plugs are great, but I just don`t think they are best applied to techno. The EQ`s on their own are great though, it`s the compression I don`t really think is good for techno.
I`d have gone for the Sonox stuff personally.

As for talking about software in a hardware discussion, my advice was to spend over 500 or save the money and buy software.

id have to agree.

unless you have cash to trow around software is the way to go.

sonnox, waves API, sonalksis or URS

not a huge fan of the ssl stuff myself. but the track plug is nice sometimes

[benjames]

everything less than that I bettered with extensive trials of software.
.

And during your extensive trials what did you find to be the best VST's?, were you testing them to reproduce a similar sound found with hardware or was it a test based on its abily to compress nicely?

[dirty_bass]

I was testing different compressors to get the best results for the type and application of the effect.
For some it was to get that nice open, airy sound for mastering, for others it was to get that good smack effect for drums.
Some for transparency, others for valve tone and warmth.
Some for good vocal control, and musical handling of transients.

I`ve listed the vst`s I think perform best throughout this thread.

[dirty_bass]

Although when treating any sound within the context of a whole song, picking the right sound in the first place is 70% of the job.

As any engineer will say, the best effect to apply to a sound is none.

[Jay Pace]

I got a focusrite compounder. I bought it to limit the rig and push our bassbins a little harder.

Its nice for production, and I use it quite a bit over whole synth parts.

But all in all, software is quicker, easier and in many cases better. If I didn't have it I don't think I'd miss it.

[benjames]

this conversation has been lost, your discussing hardware saying software is better than hardware unless you spend £500.

Being as most good compression vst's you discuss are more than £500 your argument is totally invalid.

i feel sick reading this discussion anymore, it truly belongs on a tidy trax forum,

[dirty_bass]

this conversation has been lost, your discussing hardware saying software is better than hardware unless you spend £500.

Being as most good compression vst's you discuss are more than £500 your argument is totally invalid.

i feel sick reading this discussion anymore, it truly belongs on a tidy trax forum,


what planet are you on?
None of the vst compressors I have listed cost more than £500

Sonalksis SV-315Mk2 Compressor (£149.99)
Voxengo Marquis Compressor (£43.98) an absolute steal!!!!!!
Focusrite Liquid Mix (£439)
URS 1970, 1975 and 1980 Compressor Bundle (£317.78)
Acustica Audio Nebula 3 (£40)!!!!!
Flux Solera (£336.33)
MJCompressor (Free!!!)

Now unless my mind has turned to jam, none of those plugs are priced over £500

In fact for £500 you can get a nice collection of very serious software compressors.

[rhythmtech]

i feel sick reading this discussion anymore, it truly belongs on a tidy trax forum,


:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

[TechMouse]

this conversation has been lost, your discussing hardware saying software is better than hardware unless you spend £500.

Being as most good compression vst's you discuss are more than £500 your argument is totally invalid.

i feel sick reading this discussion anymore, it truly belongs on a tidy trax forum,

Errr, the Sonalksis compressor is £150 for a start.

Always check facts before posting, especially if you're going to get all elitist.

Tidy Trax indeed. Even the Tidy Boys have a good grasp of VST pricing.

[eyeswithoutaface]

this conversation has been lost, your discussing hardware saying software is better than hardware unless you spend £500.

Being as most good compression vst's you discuss are more than £500 your argument is totally invalid.

i feel sick reading this discussion anymore, it truly belongs on a tidy trax forum,

best post EVER to be posted on Blackout Audio

All Hail Ben James

[danielmarshall]

digital will never crack the behaviour of Analog outboard!!! Maybe next generation when 'quantum computers' get invented but until then....
Even my crappy Drawmer DL241 kicks waves' arse

This is why newbies get burnt on internet forums.

Anyway, quantum computers will be of little use for the things that we traditionally use digital computers to do.... Quantum computing allows you to do things (at least theoretically anyway) like computing very large prime numbers, or factoring an integer into it's constituant primes. That and performing multilpe opperations (billions in fact) simulataniously and almost instantaniously makes it very useful for scientific computing and cryptography, but it's not really going to impact the desktop computer market directly as far as I can see. Then again, every 5 years features that were only available on supercomputers seem to migrate to desktops, so I'll try not to be too dogmatic on that one.

[Andy]

Ive got a pair of TLA 5051 mk2 channel strips which have sidechain inputs for compression

So i'd imagine the stand alone compressor in the ivory 2 range also does this

the TLA stuff is great if you want to colour your sound, transparent it is deffinetly not

[benjames]

i stand corrected on the price argument, i was thinking of the UAD / DSP signal processing method as competiton for hardware as discussed earlier in the thread.

I do find it interesting how strong you feel about vst (software only) compression, since this relies on a decent platform, decent hardware, plenty of spare CPU, plenty of spare RAM, and no other issues that are commonly associated with PC/MAc operation.

Maybe this is taken for granted in the cases discussed but i know i personally would have a problem freeing up spare load for the amount of standard / sidechaining & Parallel compression required to get that lovely analogue warmth into the tracks.

[dirty_bass]

I don`t think parallel compression is exactly an essential part of putting warmth into a mix.
It has specific uses, some engineers will say are essential others would say is totally pointless.

[Louk]

I don`t think parallel compression is exactly an essential part of putting warmth into a mix.
It has specific uses, some engineers will say are essential others would say is totally pointless.

Steve, what are your thoughts on the DB Audioware Dynamics Processor, for sidechain compression? I use it quite a bit and find it gives a really clean and pumping sound.

Louk

[rhythmtech]

i stand corrected on the price argument, i was thinking of the UAD / DSP signal processing method as competiton for hardware as discussed earlier in the thread.

I do find it interesting how strong you feel about vst (software only) compression, since this relies on a decent platform, decent hardware, plenty of spare CPU, plenty of spare RAM, and no other issues that are commonly associated with PC/MAc operation.

Maybe this is taken for granted in the cases discussed but i know i personally would have a problem freeing up spare load for the amount of standard / sidechaining & Parallel compression required to get that lovely analogue warmth into the tracks.

most up to date pc's can handle a shed load of compressors. i know i can lay a sonalksis across 15-20 tracks without barely moving the cpu meter.

[benjames]

What went from an innocent conversation about hardware compressors has turned into a bit of an argument about software compression.

At the end of the day the facts still remain:

Digital compression is excellent
Analogue compression is excellent

Any prefences are surely subjective as any producer will be after their own sound / method. I personally (as a hard techno producer) love hardware compression and the ability to change the feel of a mix while monitoring and I personally value the hands on approach to compression.

Whatever we use it will always be bettered by something, and it looks as if this forum is the place to make sure we know when we are using the incorrect tools for the job, thanks guys for all your excellent advice it really has made me feel like there are people out there that do care.

[benjames]

Errr, the Sonalksis compressor is £150 for a start.

Always check facts before posting, especially if you're going to get all elitist.

Tidy Trax indeed. Even the Tidy Boys have a good grasp of VST pricing.

The tidy boys will know the prices of vst's, and im sure that is what makes their music sound so gooooood, of course the only real way to evaluate someones production work.

I was under the impression that Dirty Bass used the liquid mix (from other posts)!

[dirty_bass]

Steve, what are your thoughts on the DB Audioware Dynamics Processor, for sidechain compression? I use it quite a bit and find it gives a really clean and pumping sound.

Louk

I haven`t used DB Audioware for a long long time.
There old multi band and straight up stereo compressor was nice.
Very transparent but behaved nicely.

No idea about the new stuff, but I`m assuming your talking about the DB-D Dynamics compressor, which is fine as far as I remember for transparent compression.

Not absolutely into it`s attack and release behaviour, but I think for what you are using it for (pumping the mix cleanly?), it`s fine.