Tape Saturation tech-niques

[yellaman]

Just wanted to ask u guyz what u would generally use tape recording for apart from the stereo master etc.. I am reallty into the 'tape sound' thing and thinking of investing in a studer/akai to pass loops and samples thru... lemme know wot u guyz r up to!!

[BloodStar]

Personally, I wouldnt go this way. Tapes are pain to setup and maintain. It takes some money for new tapes, demagnetizing of heads, adjusting mechanics, you can have troubles with syncing it to computer etc.

Why dont you go for some analog tube instead?

[loopdon]

If you really need the 'tape' sound, u could use a vcr recorder or a normal tape deck. Or use a tape plugin instead.

[yellaman]

Is it really such a nightmare to run a tape machine!! and wouldnt VHS or normal tape have too much noise?? anyway i think the TUBES or VALVES seem the way... can u guyz recomend any.. Ive heard that some are very transparent e.g Crane Song and some are more colorful e.g Manley, Tubetech... do u guyz have any favourits i wonder? either way thanks a lot for the help!!

[Kokotorobot]

i'd say the main benefits of a tape machine will come in terms of sound design - if you it has varispeed, be prepared to shit yourself

i've made more incredible and nasty sound playing with overdriving a borrowed portable nagra in 20 minutes than in all multi-hour soundmangling sessions in my life before

i'm definitely getting a r2r as soon as there's some cash in the studio fund

[dirty_bass]

Yeah, I`d advise a reel to reel if you can afford it.
I`d love one myself when I have more room.
But it has to be something good, not some shitty fostex 8 track or something.
It`s great for mastering, the saturation it adds is lovely (ie: distortion), although there are some nice saturation plugins around now.

But again, different machines add different colouration, so you really need to research what you want, and how you can get it.

Same with compression really, just running something through valves that add "colour" is no good unless you know what colouration you are looking for and how to get it and use it effectively.

[yellaman]

kokoto robot... can u tell me a bit more about how u use the Nagra.. after reading ur reply ive been lookin around for it on the net and hav found various models of it.. which one would u use and how mate?? techniques etc. They look so sexy and there nice and small unlike studers etc what is the sound like?? there very pricey wuld u say there worth the $$... thanks guyz

[yellaman]

also Dirty Bass.. can u explain anything about certain valve/tube models and how they affect sound please.. ive always been attracted to tubetech but have never really played about on one... if u were to choose between an outboard EQ or Comp which would it be?? thanks Dirty B

[Kokotorobot]

kokoto robot... can u tell me a bit more about how u use the Nagra.. after reading ur reply ive been lookin around for it on the net and hav found various models of it.. which one would u use and how mate?? techniques etc. They look so sexy and there nice and small unlike studers etc what is the sound like?? there very pricey wuld u say there worth the $$... thanks guyz

well the nagra is a portable recorder, it's main use is to record shit in the field...it's extremely good at that, very solid construction and the batteries last forever. it's amazing and unbreakable

what i did is to simply run a synths output into it, overdrive and keep it running while playing and messing with the knobs...playback at different speeds and stop the tape by hand here and there.

literally just playing around, but the results are stunning. i wouldn't hesitate to get one of them if i had the cash

i had the mono version, but theres some stereo ones floating around as well - i wouldn't use it to saturate entire mixes but more as a recorder and sound design tool

[stjohn]

what good tape/saturation plugs are u lads using?

think im in need of a new one

[dirty_bass]

also Dirty Bass.. can u explain anything about certain valve/tube models and how they affect sound please.. ive always been attracted to tubetech but have never really played about on one... if u were to choose between an outboard EQ or Comp which would it be?? thanks Dirty B

Outboard compression, without a doubt, first.
And then outboard EQ.

As for which bit of outboard, that`s very difficult to say.
There is little out there under 3 grand that can`t be replicated with software, so I`d have to have a good long think.
Also it depends on the type of music, as when you are spending this kind of money, you are getting stuff with distinct sound and purpose, rather than a catch all multi tasking machine.

The Cranesong STC-8 Mastering processor is great.
Not really tube-tech, but it doesn`t matter. It`s pure sex in a box.

or the Shadow Hills Mastering Compressor, this is amazing too

but if I had to pin it down to just 2 compressors, it would be a toss up between the classic fairchild 670 or the gorgeous Manley Stereo Mu.

I used to have an extremely rare Marshal 1960`s era compressor, and loved it, but once I really learned my shit, it was just far too coloured and mushy for the work I was doing, so I sold it for a mint.

EQ would have to be the Manley Massive Passive EQ. Raw sex.

I recently plumped for the Focusrite liquid mix however, which does an amazing job of emulating old tubetech kit.
Very very happy with this bit of kit, thoroughly recommended.

[Kokotorobot]

i'd love to get my hands on a thermionic phoenix (http://www.thermionicculture.com/products/phoenix.htm)

not to mention the culture vulture (http://www.thermionicculture.com/products/culture_vulture_mv.htm) for saturation purposes

[dirty_bass]

Never dealt with any thermionic stuff.
I`ve heard a few good reports though

[yellaman]

1) Thanks Kokotorobot..thanks for the info! what models would u recommend mate?? preferably Mono..

2) Dirty B.. That was a very helpful lowdown and i just knew you would mention the Massive Passive * hehe * That thing makes my jaW Drop!! Im gonna take a couple days to look up all that equipment, also what Kokotorobot mentioned and i will be back for a chat...!! ''thanks guyz''


Oh but 1 more ?... Can the Liquid Mix really do that much of an accurate emulation?? hmm..?

;D

[dirty_bass]

1) Thanks Kokotorobot..thanks for the info! what models would u recommend mate?? preferably Mono..

2) Dirty B.. That was a very helpful lowdown and i just knew you would mention the Massive Passive * hehe * That thing makes my jaW Drop!! Im gonna take a couple days to look up all that equipment, also what Kokotorobot mentioned and i will be back for a chat...!! ''thanks guyz''


Oh but 1 more ?... Can the Liquid Mix really do that much of an accurate emulation?? hmm..?

;D

Well apparently the emulation is pretty good, but a good point is, who wants an exact emulation of old kit, what is the point?
As long as you get the same characteristics and behaviour as the type of equipment you are looking to use, but with modern unrestricted use (a lot of the old kit had restricted settings, limited ratios, step eq frequencies etc).

The liquid mix is basically a sintefex device, but without the option to run your own convolution algorythms through outboard kit, so you only get the kit they themselves have run the convolution through.

In my opinion, it`s bloody good, and worth 2 times the price you can get it for.

the compression has that airy open-ness that you get with great gear that is rarely emulated with plug ins, and the EQ`s are just stunning. It`s also nice to have the hardware interface.

I have to say the manley EQ emulation is beautiful.

I have the opportunity to access some amazing studios as a member of the music producers guild, and I have to say, the liquid mix does stand up well.
Obviously it`s not as good as some of the huge vintage desks out there, but you need a mortgage to buy them anyway.

Again, worry less about wether the kit is analog or digital, and more about what results you want, and what kit can get those results for you.

always try stuff on a money back policy and form your own opinion wether or not to keep it.

[Kokotorobot]

the only one i have experiences with is the old nagra 4.2 :

http://www.nagraaudio.com/pro/images/Nagra_4.2_page.jpg (http://www.nagraaudio.com/pro/pages/products_nagra_4-2.php)

supersex

[Radic]

mate check out the PSP vintage warmer 2 plug in. It's a handy plug to have. I had it for over a year and didn't really know how to use the damn thing until recently. Once you work out what all the dials to and how it relates to a real tape recorder you can get some awesome tape saturation effects :)