something deffo needs done...

[FuK-NuT]

if 20 people rock up to see speedyj in edinburgh yet nights that promote local and up and coming can pull in close to capacity...

there be a new generation coming up, i feel more needs done from the big boys to show the young'inz wot its all about or else jump-up dnb nights and dance nights will rule the world....fair enough europe etc have it far better compared to this wee island and can accomodate rediculous fee's...maybe
ya'll need to b thinkin about droppin these fee'z to accomodate us, if not
then i fear ya'll gona b forgotten in time to come cause no one can book you
in the uk/scabland...might not b a bad thing tho...
lol
dont really know wot the scene is like south o the border but from experience
accomodating shit fee's then for your night not to do well on said night cause peeps aint heard of u has almost crippled us meaning we have no choice but to hunt out those who dont charge the earth...which aint a bad thing either..

tiz a shame cause there are those i'd like to bring to scotland...

thoughts please...

last time i looked this was about techno right?

[mattboyslim]

guess its a case of knowing your market, and advertising properly. Thats by no means a dig at you, but it'd be my first thought when a night with Speedy J flops

[MARK ANXIOUS]

i hate promotion. i've never been any good at it. but damn, i can see the power of it.

i think it's definitely a case of what's hot and what's not these days and with techno, it's even more so than ever when you have a headliner. you would have thought under normal circumstances speedy would have been a sure fire winner but then again, scotland is a very very hard place to get something going. and speedy really hasn't been in the headlines too much recently...

well pick yaself up mate, and keep flying that flag. sorry to hear it didnt work out as planned...

ps sure, would be nice for them to drop their fees but when they can easily get 20000 ppl rockin in a party in holland and get paid full whack on a regular basis, you can see why they dont. perhaps it's time to invest more in up and coming local talent and uk names....

[FuK-NuT]

guess its a case of knowing your market, and advertising properly. Thats by no means a dig at you, but it'd be my first thought when a night with Speedy J flops

WOW, stop!

not refering to our night with regards to speedy...(and countless other big names by the way)

we promote the lesser known and have done well over the coarse of 4 years plus....but we have ventured out abit of late and over the coarse of at least 2 nights payin not to bad fee's and not doin so well has seen us struggle...so
to book a huge mofo and encounter same sorta situation we'd b on our arse...as has some other nights that have appeared and opted to go down the big name road....it just isnt feasible in this city just now.....but that cant b the fault o the promoter surely?

[mattboyslim]

WOW, stop!

not refering to our night with regards to speedy...(and countless other big names by the way)

we promote the lesser known and have done well over the coarse of 4 years plus....but we have ventured out abit of late and over the coarse of at least 2 nights payin not to bad fee's and not doin so well has seen us struggle...so
to book a huge mofo and encounter same sorta situation we'd b on our arse...as has some other nights that have appeared and opted to go down the big name road....it just isnt feasible in this city just now.....but that cant b the fault o the promoter surely?

the way it came across it sounded like you were talking about your own night. think mark hit the nail on the head about fees anyway. and frankly the cheaper acts are preferable personnally. no expectation means no disappointment, and often massive excitement when its goes off totally unexpectantly

[FuK-NuT]

yeh i agree....really just giving the heads up to those who might venture up one time to find the club empty ala speedyj...

musta hurt!

[DannyBlack]

speedy j empty?? what the hell is happening??? bloody 'ell!

[teknorich]

I know the feeling mate, it's gutting. He's not Techno as such, but I saw Troy Pierce (one of Hawtin's right hand men, and a BIG name in the minimal scene) play in Liverpool, to a crowd of about 10 people, of whom two were serving beer. I also heard that Matthew Dear played to an audience of literally 6 or 8. It takes the p*ss! How can big names who regularly fill clubs around Europe, and the world in fact, have to play to such insultingly small audiences as that?

Tho, on the flip side, I went to Rehab last weekend ( a local Liverpool techno night, which is always just residents) and one of the lads; John Heckle, tore it up with two decks and a 909. I paid £3 in, there were maybe 40 people there, but it was a wicked, wicked night!

Maybe the current climate in the UK will lead to the local homegrown talent becoming more well known, on the simple basis that promoters just can't afford the risk of the big international names and the cost of their fees? This could be a good thing, a bit of a silver lining?

[DJ RE:HAB]

i hate promotion. i've never been any good at it. but damn, i can see the power of it.

i think it's definitely a case of what's hot and what's not these days and with techno, it's even more so than ever when you have a headliner. you would have thought under normal circumstances speedy would have been a sure fire winner but then again, scotland is a very very hard place to get something going. and speedy really hasn't been in the headlines too much recently...

well pick yaself up mate, and keep flying that flag. sorry to hear it didnt work out as planned...

ps sure, would be nice for them to drop their fees but when they can easily get 20000 ppl rockin in a party in holland and get paid full whack on a regular basis, you can see why they dont. perhaps it's time to invest more in up and coming local talent and uk names....

aye ive been to 2 dutch parties, Defqon 1 Festival 30,000 and qlimax 25,000.
I have to say these places do fill out, but if ive noticed anything about these mega raves is that not all the people are proper into the choons. Ive seen a fair few of them just there to be there, ie, its qlimax and defqon.

Have to say tho, fair play to the dutch the stage shows and the money put into the events is second to none, gotta be the best in the world and we british i feel are lacking and will always be lacking i think behind them in terms of dance music in all forms being more accepted throughout the younger and and older generations...

[teknorich]

(But Speedy J being empty is a shocker! He's not done a lot recently, but the guy is a legend!!)

[FuK-NuT]

Maybe the current climate in the UK will lead to the local homegrown talent becoming more well known, on the simple basis that promoters just can't afford the risk of the big international names and the cost of their fees? This could be a good thing, a bit of a silver lining?

its wot we a reverting bak to....

not saying we are in anyway the be all and end all of scottish techno as it where
just voicing my opinion on what i see and have learned from experience...but if folks are even bothered about playing up here or want to you gotta
take into account the size of the scene and not have a standard fee for the world...peeps are missing out..sort it out!

[stjohn]

speedy j empty?? what the hell is happening??? bloody 'ell!

well, Speedy J... although a respactable name... is just not doing anything good IMo (except for non techno projects). i know the lads a genius....but his techno at the moment is gash. he played here 2 weeks ago.. and had i not necked 2 yokes i wouldnt have fell asleep.

12 minute songs that are borderline boring mnml, with the same groove and buildup that speedy coined a few yrs back... are a fraction of what this lad is capable of.

maybe the punters realise this?

[robin m]

20 people for speedy J? **** me that's a sad commentary :whoops:

Got to agree I prefer his non-techno stuff these days too, but still - the guy's still a league above virtually everyone else and I would have put money on him packing a night anywhere in the UK...

[viagratek]

20 people? that is pretty ****ed.

we did the speedy j gig in LA...prolly had 500 people and for me that wasnt enough either. we did like 700 last year. that is nothing compared to the 10000 + festival gigs in europe but its exceptional for for north america.

i dont know what he charged UK promoters, but his north american rates (depending on the event) are reasonable considering who he is.

he still remains relevant....although he hasnt released any techno EPs but the UMFELD dvd is nothing short of amazing conceptually.

as for live sets he is pushing the digital dj thing right now. by layering several tracks, loops, noises, blabala along with abelton efex, midi sequences, blahblah x2 then manipulating it all on the dj mixer he is basically using other peoples songs and song parts to build the music up and break it down similar to his past hardware sets. if you saw him during those relentless collabs tours you know what im talking about.

musically his recent sets have ranged from tougher minimal to more banging material with some hints of acid between the bpms of 128-133. which is fine for me im over borderline schranz and so is alot of the music world.

[RDR]

Its down to promotion really, and the promoters ability to know their own market.

If they didnt promote it properly then im not surprised.

[ritaheed]

Its down to promotion really, and the promoters ability to know their own market.

If they didnt promote it properly then im not surprised.

aye for tht speedy j night in scotland i "heard a rumour" he was playing about a week before the gig.....there was no flyers, posters, promotion on the web for it.....(until 2 days before it or suming).....so no wonder no one was there.....but aye scotland can sometimes be weird when it comes to techno nights......hit or miss.....Jamie Bissmire and Paul Langley were playing up here not long ago and a would say there was 50-60 ppl max at the gig - amazing nite tho

[Sunil]

musically his recent sets have ranged from tougher minimal to more banging material with some hints of acid between the bpms of 128-133. which is fine for me im over borderline schranz and so is alot of the music world.

I thought he wasn't bad when I saw him at the gig Rory is talking about, but there was very little to distinguish his set from what Chris Liebing did about a month before that in the same venue. He is still someone I'll never write off - some of the Collabs album was actually quite good - but the problem here is down to disappointment I guess, in a guy that is capable of such craziness, but who has obviously towed the line to keep the work coming in. He needs to earn a crust though; the way I see it these days, if any of these legends or 'names' come up with something good or play really well, it's a bonus, if not then I don't mind, they've all earned their stripes by now. The dancefloor techno market or 'scene' is a bit ****ed up now anyway, at least he has this DVD on the go.. I'll have to check it out soon..

[Sunil]

as for live sets he is pushing the digital dj thing right now. by layering several tracks, loops, noises, blabala along with abelton efex, midi sequences, blahblah x2 then manipulating it all on the dj mixer he is basically using other peoples songs and song parts to build the music up and break it down similar to his past hardware sets.

Hmm, yeah.. not to start a row, but does any of this really matter?
The number one aim is to play the best possible music you can, I have absolutely no interest in what he uses, it's what he plays and how he delivers it. All the FX, laptops and gadgets are useless if you're playing unmemorable music (I guess we all have different tastes though). I'm not aiming this squarely at Speedy J, but if we're to talk about him for a moment: if that's the future of digital DJ-ing then so be it, I certainly wasn't too excited though.

[Kells]

Well speedy rocked Joy in November, although a day or so before the event i heard a really minimal gash sounding mix of his from a month or so earlier and started to get worrid!!! as joy is no minimal event, when he arrived we were driving back from the airport, id alreadt spoke to Cisco (advent) about this and he agreed he would play after Speedy and play it harder, as even he thought speedy would be too minimal, anyhow i told speedy in the car that Joy is NOT a minimal event and people want a bit more... i got Advent on the blower and Speedy asked to speak to him, he asked advent what tunes he was playing...then after the phone call was all quiet,,
He came to the club for his set and bloody rocked it, the crowd went mental for him and Alot of people came just for Speedy, he was great, i loved his set.. even tho he was a little reserved in character...

check it out here... the mix:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/2s7ubj


http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3346/joyrehabdr3.jpg

[Stella Boy]

anyhow i told speedy in the car that Joy is NOT a minimal event and people want a bit more


sorry to pick bones kells but why book a dj/pa without knowing what they were doing at present ? To turn round to your main player and basically tell them that the music they play isn't what the club wants seems a bit odd.

[Frank Dogshit]

'listen Mr Paap..I dont care what tunes youve been producing ready for tonights event,your NOT playing them!'

'If you dont put loudboxer on, your NOT playing here again'

Nice one.

[The Overfiend]

Krikc (live) or it's curtains!

I had one cat tell me to play 134 when I usually play 140 and up.
I agreed to it and needless to say played 142 and killed.
**** people telling you what to play, but in Kells situation I can totally agree with wanting someone to play what you payed for.

[RDR]

sorry to pick bones kells but why book a dj/pa without knowing what they were doing at present ? To turn round to your main player and basically tell them that the music they play isn't what the club wants seems a bit odd.

Not at all, they are being PAID by the promoter, and besides the club has a history of certain types of music - as a performer its also your responsibility to do your homework.

[Stella Boy]

it's also the promotor's responsibilty to do their homework prior to booking an act.

[...Dave...]

bit of both surely.

agree that asking a guy while he's on his way to the club is cutting it a bit fine, but its the promoters right to request what style he plays to some extent after all he's paying the guy.

loads of dj's get asked to play an oldskool set for example.

[Aratron]

Speedy J is garbage.

[...Dave...]

Speedy J is garbage.

dude. you talk some utter shite at times but that takes the biscuit.


you ever seen speedy j live? or even bothered your ass to listen to him?

[force]

Speedy J is garbage.

I must strongly disagree!

[...Dave...]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

*Dave* says:
speedy j garbage lmao
Aratron says:
who is he anyway
Aratron says:
sounds like some hardcore dj
*Dave* says:
lol.. hes a legend dude..he's awesome too..prob the best live pa ever
Aratron says:
of what
*Dave* says:
what u mean?
Aratron says:
techno?
*Dave* says:
yea
Aratron says:
never heard of himinnit

[Aratron]

I must strongly disagree!

well tbh i have never even heard of him b4. but his name looks like some pansy-ass Hardcore DJ from Doncaster. Crap name.

[RDR]

it's also the promotor's responsibilty to do their homework prior to booking an act.

:lol: Like Kells didnt know who they were booking?

They pay the act, they say what goes. I could unerstand if you think that speedy j wasnt capable of that music or had never played anything like the sort of techno that Kells et all were after, but thats not the case.

Now im not saying that promoters dont pay attention to the type of music that an artist is currently producing, but they have a bunch of puinters to make happy, not the blasted acts. Thats taken as read innit - they get paid, they're happy. If they do a 2hr appearance for 500 quid (probably more with SJ) then they can bloody well do as they're told (within reason of course and set by negotiation)

Superstar attitude? Not when your paying their 4-5star hotel room, providing transport, flight costs and paying them.

[Stella Boy]

:lol: Like Kells didnt know who they were booking?


where did I say he didn't know who he was booking :xconfused:

[Aratron]

its 2007 now, not 1991. some folk have moved on. hence why 20 people went to watch him play.

[RDR]

where did I say he didn't know who he was booking :xconfused:

You didnt...


sorry to pick bones kells but why book a dj/pa without knowing what they were doing at presen

oh... you did. in a way.

[markandrew]

its 2007 now, not 1991. some folk have moved on. hence why 20 people went to watch him play.

you need to go an see him mate total respect for speedy j don t need to say anymore and i think everyone will agree even if he does play alot of minimal now

[Kells]

sorry to pick bones kells but why book a dj/pa without knowing what they were doing at present ? To turn round to your main player and basically tell them that the music they play isn't what the club wants seems a bit odd.


firstly... nobody told anybody what to play dude

he asked what type of night it was, and as i said before, i told him Joy wss no minimal night

we did book him for what he plays at present, as i said, it was just a certain mix i heard that bothered me, the booking was made months and months before the date of the event and the mix in question was very recent, (do u understand where im going with this) and i had not heard him play anything like that before and if i thought thats what he was pushing now i would not have booked him in nthe first place!!.

Cisco did most the talking with speedy regarding music etc..

the music that night, for me at least was perfect, i loved it, speedy was very very good

[Kells]

also, id like to add, if speedy wants to push minimal, thats up to him and its fine, we just didnt want a set like the one i heard been played at JOY, as said in this post by RDR, we have customers to please and at the price Speedy was (very expensive) we wanted him to perform the way we know he can

we booked him for a certain style, im sorry if i comke accross arsey here, im really not been but really, do u not think i dont do my homework on who we want at joy and what styles they play, his agent agreed to all my requests when we made the booking.

obviously when he askes what type of night it is whilst we are in the car, im gonna tell him... which wasnt in a funny way.

just think if he had played a minimal as hell set, that wouldnt have been good, speedy came prepared which is also obvious so all is cool

hope this clears it up for you, thanx to RDR too for making some very good points here

[Stella Boy]

obviously when he askes what type of night it is whilst we are in the car, im gonna tell him... which wasnt in a funny way.



anyhow i told speedy in the car that Joy is NOT a minimal event

You didn't mention speedy asking you in your initial post. The way the post was written implied you simply told him. This was my interpretation so apologies for the misunderstanding

Anywho, thanks for your comments dude

[Kells]

You didn't mention speedy asking you in your initial post. The way the post was written implied you simply told him. This was my interpretation so apologies for the misunderstanding

Anywho, thanks for your comments dude


i kind of thought i may have not explained properly, i was just really talking about speedy in genral and not how i make bookings for joy so didnt go in depth with it.... no need to apologies tony, was easy to miss-understand.. :)

Speedy was a reserved character, you can tell he plays alot of gigs all over the world.

he mentioned he is doing alot over in the states, im not sure what they are into over their but as i said before we booked him for his good stuff, although we did have to deal with 3 booking agents in total do im not sure what info he was told..

As i said before he delivered what i wanted, Cisco was pretty shocked, he didnt expect speedy to play how he did, and even comented on this to speedy, whom i think really fed off the crowd, was good, i enjoyed it alot and the crowd were really spot on and knew exactly what they wanted/were listening to, i like that, alot of the club nights in leeds now are just full of un educated crowds who are their just to look good in their new clothes...
but i guess you already know this..

anyhow, speak soon :)

[The Overfiend]

Keep doing your thing Kells, people around here have a knack to want to take stabs at peoplein the mix from outside of the mix.

[RDR]

Keep doing your thing Kells, people around here have a knack to want to take stabs at peoplein the mix from outside of the mix.

Im not sure thats the case antonio, just a misunderstanding i think..

But, yeah man, keep it going Kells! Some cracking events indeed!!! Hi to brad and angie as well :)

[Paul Zykotik]

we promote the lesser known and have done well over the coarse of 4 years plus....but we have ventured out abit of late and over the coarse of at least 2 nights payin not to bad fee's and not doin so well has seen us struggle...so to book a huge mofo and encounter same sorta situation we'd b on our arse...as has some other nights that have appeared and opted to go down the big name road....it just isnt feasible in this city just now.....but that cant b the fault o the promoter surely?

When I was going out in Edinburgh, around 98-01, the busiest nights were definitely the ones where it was just the residents playing. Nights like Pillbox, Apex, Loop, even Lift only booked a big name once in a while. Pure could do it every time but that was because Pure was Pure and people would go regardless of who was on. Lost / Dogma had it cracked too, but generally the place always struck me as a party city that isn't too bothered about big names, even to the extent where if the residents weren't playing then people wouldn't go down as they wouldn't be entirely sure of what to expect. Maybe that's still the case.

[FuK-NuT]

When I was going out in Edinburgh, around 98-01, the busiest nights were definitely the ones where it was just the residents playing. Nights like Pillbox, Apex, Loop, even Lift only booked a big name once in a while. Pure could do it every time but that was because Pure was Pure and people would go regardless of who was on. Lost / Dogma had it cracked too, but generally the place always struck me as a party city that isn't too bothered about big names, even to the extent where if the residents weren't playing then people wouldn't go down as they wouldn't be entirely sure of what to expect. Maybe that's still the case.

pritty much is the case for us m8....our busiest nights without a word of a lie have been when myself and sekonz have stood up plus putting on local's...

[The Overfiend]

Im not sure thats the case antonio, just a misunderstanding i think..

But, yeah man, keep it going Kells! Some cracking events indeed!!! Hi to brad and angie as well :)

Not you, my man fifty grand.

[Jay Pace]

There's loads of people we'd love to book but we know they wouldn't fill the place. Need to know your market - what people will pay for, who will pull a crowd. Then you need to balance that with putting on people you actually like.

Seen loads of nights die because they book their heroes and get frustrated when the public don't turn up. Its really sad, but you need to put on a party first and foremost (IMO) and without people you ain't got a party.

Problems we've had is that bar trade is wiping out club trade - late licences, better provision for smokers - there's less incentive to go to a club and pay a load of money and have to queue to have a smoke when there's a bar closer by that plays decent enough music and doesn't charge.

Meh. Reckon Mark's got it right - book smaller names or up and comers and build a night that way. The legends of stadium rock aren't always the best option.

[Kells]

Im not sure thats the case antonio, just a misunderstanding i think..

But, yeah man, keep it going Kells! Some cracking events indeed!!! Hi to brad and angie as well :)

Thanx for the support guys, always nice to hear good things, im actually brad btw :), i notice you are from Selby, i visit their quite a bit, do i know you at all? i also notice you know Ange so im guessing we must have met somewhere along the line?

[Aratron]

thinking about Speedy-DJ the other night.

just got it, play on words Spee - DJ OR summat like that anyway.

tell him come and play a free party up at my neck of woods. at -5 in the morning.

[Aratron]

The legends of stadium rock aren't always the best option.

:lol:

[dirty_bass]

Seen loads of nights die because they book their heroes and get frustrated when the public don't turn up. Its really sad, but you need to put on a party first and foremost (IMO) and without people you ain't got a party.


Had that problem a few years back.
Got skoog in (pre-agaric), always wanted him at our events.
Promoted like mad, as we always used to.
Got a really low turn out, apart from a bunch of japanese who obviously knew who he was, london punters as a whole, all though they had all danced to his tunes as played by other DJ`s, they just didn`t know who skoog was.
Bad crazyness.
London is extra difficult though, and the crowds are super fickle for the biggest names only.

[RDR]

Thanx for the support guys, always nice to hear good things, im actually brad btw :), i notice you are from Selby, i visit their quite a bit, do i know you at all? i also notice you know Ange so im guessing we must have met somewhere along the line?

Indeed brad...

Its chris :)

I do still have your phone number you know... and we're still looking for gig swaps at Pure Techno.

[RDR]

:lol:

I reckon slash might pull in more than mills though.

Id go and see him at a techno night :)

[FuK-NuT]

There's loads of people we'd love to book but we know they wouldn't fill the place. Need to know your market - what people will pay for, who will pull a crowd. Then you need to balance that with putting on people you actually like.

Seen loads of nights die because they book their heroes and get frustrated when the public don't turn up. Its really sad, but you need to put on a party first and foremost (IMO) and without people you ain't got a party.

Problems we've had is that bar trade is wiping out club trade - late licences, better provision for smokers - there's less incentive to go to a club and pay a load of money and have to queue to have a smoke when there's a bar closer by that plays decent enough music and doesn't charge.

Meh. Reckon Mark's got it right - book smaller names or up and comers and build a night that way. The legends of stadium rock aren't always the best option.


read my posts ;)

[Jay Pace]

read my posts ;)

hehe, all on the money mate. Heard edinburgh was the place to be not so long back. My only experiences of clubbing up that way were going to 'rezerection' at the royal highland showground when I was a wee bairn. Although I have an enduring memory of 10k charged up hibbs shouting along to 'toytown' (hixxy and sharkey, you know da score...).

Thems were the days.

We're doing a residents and friends party at our next night. Be interesting to see how many we pull compared to the headliner gigs.

[Kells]

Indeed brad...

Its chris :)

I do still have your phone number you know... and we're still looking for gig swaps at Pure Techno.

Ahh makes sense now, Hows things hope you are doing well?

[RDR]

Ahh makes sense now, Hows things hope you are doing well?

A crazy combination of money worries, starting a label, dealing with the SYLD stuff in part, music tech lecturing and .. and... and... :hissyfit: :lol:

So about normal really... :)

You?

[Darkmode]

Had that problem a few years back.
Got skoog in (pre-agaric), always wanted him at our events.
Promoted like mad, as we always used to.
Got a really low turn out, apart from a bunch of japanese who obviously knew who he was, london punters as a whole, all though they had all danced to his tunes as played by other DJ`s, they just didn`t know who skoog was.
Bad crazyness.
London is extra difficult though, and the crowds are super fickle for the biggest names only.

Thats the problem in the UK when promoters hold nights people will only turn up if a big name is playing & don't show their faces when it's an artist they haven't heard of which I think is very closed minded. They seem to think coz it's a big name artist they think he or she is gonna be good even though they probs haven't seen or heard them play. I think the whole Superstar DJ thing has a lot of answer for as the majority of people who only turn up to see the big names play are just sheep with no mind of their own.

[RDR]

Thats the problem in the UK when promoters hold nights people will only turn up if a big name is playing & don't show their faces when it's an artist they haven't heard of which I think is very closed minded. They seem to think coz it's a big name artist they think he or she is gonna be good even though they probs haven't seen or heard them play. I think the whole Superstar DJ thing has a lot of answer for as the majority of people who only turn up to see the big names play are just sheep with no mind of their own.

The original post that started this thread said exactly the opposite of that.

Perhaps what you are saying has resonance with big trance or 'pop' dance music events...

[barry_fyasko]

tricky one. if u get a reputation for putting on a good party, after a while u get a big regular crowd in each month whoever is playing. if u get on a superstar dj-booking tip, u can pack em in if u get the booking+promo right or u can bomb if it goes wrong. when it goes right tho... awesome

but bombing on a 400quid budget is different to bombing on a 2 grand budget...

end of the day, people will go to what they think will be a good nite. if youve done the groundwork and put on a run of smallish, low-budget, wicked nites with great local/cheap djs, you dont need to go and book mills or dave clarke and risk a crapload of money on a bunch of fickle punters.

i reckon leave the big'uns to the promoters with cash to burn unless ur certain ur on a winner. or got cash to burn.

all about the grass roots maaan ;)

[RDR]

get a reputation for putting on a good party

Thats stop No.1 on the road to having a long running event.

[FuK-NuT]

tricky one. if u get a reputation for putting on a good party, after a while u get a big regular crowd in each month whoever is playing. if u get on a superstar dj-booking tip, u can pack em in if u get the booking+promo right or u can bomb if it goes wrong. when it goes right tho... awesome

but bombing on a 400quid budget is different to bombing on a 2 grand budget...

end of the day, people will go to what they think will be a good nite. if youve done the groundwork and put on a run of smallish, low-budget, wicked nites with great local/cheap djs, you dont need to go and book mills or dave clarke and risk a crapload of money on a bunch of fickle punters.

i reckon leave the big'uns to the promoters with cash to burn unless ur certain ur on a winner. or got cash to burn.

all about the grass roots maaan ;)

word!

[Microdot]

its 2007 now, not 1991. some folk have moved on. hence why 20 people went to watch him play.

I've got 100% respect for Speedy J. but there's definitely some truth in what you're saying.

[djshiva]

frankly, if you are packing the house when you have locals playing, then you are doing a damn bit better than most techno nights that i know of in the states.

[Darkmode]

The original post that started this thread said exactly the opposite of that.

Perhaps what you are saying has resonance with big trance or 'pop' dance music events...


Sorry if you miss-understood in what I was saying basicly I was saying in general that some people that go to Techno nights held in the UK only go to them when when a big name Techno artist is playing & don't turn up when it's an artist they haven't heard of.

[Kells]

I've got 100% respect for Speedy J. but there's definitely some truth in what you're saying.

Some truth in that for sure, but stilll, Speedy is one of the busiest of all the djs, after speaking with him i can vouch for that!

Loads iof folk came especially to see him play @ Joy, we had a hell of alot of people calling about the event and asking about him, even after the event we had calls asking when the bloody event was...which is annoying !!

i dont think it would have mattered what DJ was on that night (where 20 people turned up), would have prob only been the same amount of folk their no matter what DJ was on

[Microdot]

thing is, its not just in the Techno scene this is happening.
In the past couple of years, in addition to many half empty Techno clubs, I've seen DJ Premier play to about 200 ppl, Flavor Flav entertain a crowd of about 50, and most shocking of all, Clipse in Leeds with a couple hundred there.. less than 200..one of the best live sets I've ever mind.

Radio One, MTV, Channel 4 etc have been pushing Rock music hard the past couple years, and alot of kids wanna go see bands instead these days..

[Kells]

thing is, its not just in the Techno scene this is happening.
In the past couple of years, in addition to many half empty Techno clubs, I've seen DJ Premier play to about 200 ppl, Flavor Flav entertain a crowd of about 50, and most shocking of all, Clipse in Leeds with a couple hundred there.. less than 200..one of the best live sets I've ever mind.

Radio One, MTV, Channel 4 etc have been pushing Rock music hard the past couple years, and alot of kids wanna go see bands instead these days..



Thing is, alot of the major citys, and Leeds for one are full of students who mainly wanna go to where they can show off their latest clothes and sunglasses, and obviously they all go to the same place as the rest of the students....alot of it now is not about the music anymore, its a shame but this is how it is, things like Mixmag dont help either,
To these people, the djs we think are big are almost or even totally unknown to them, unless of course they are big in ibiza or mixmag etc...

funny thing is, these kids think they are listening to techno, and half the time its anything but that!!!

[The Overfiend]

thing is, its not just in the Techno scene this is happening.
In the past couple of years, in addition to many half empty Techno clubs, I've seen DJ Premier play to about 200 ppl, Flavor Flav entertain a crowd of about 50, and most shocking of all, Clipse in Leeds with a couple hundred there.. less than 200..one of the best live sets I've ever mind.

Radio One, MTV, Channel 4 etc have been pushing Rock music hard the past couple years, and alot of kids wanna go see bands instead these days..

That's very true same thing is happening here in the states.
MTV pushes the emo thing to the fore front and everyone else is following trends that they see on Sucker Free
So while Primo and Mobb Deep used to fill stadiums they could hardly fill a poetry club now.
Maybe we need to get someone to infiltrate mixmag and jockeyslut and whatever other mag there are.
Truth be told.

[RDR]

thing is, its not just in the Techno scene this is happening.
In the past couple of years, in addition to many half empty Techno clubs, I've seen DJ Premier play to about 200 ppl, Flavor Flav entertain a crowd of about 50, and most shocking of all, Clipse in Leeds with a couple hundred there.. less than 200..one of the best live sets I've ever mind.

Radio One, MTV, Channel 4 etc have been pushing Rock music hard the past couple years, and alot of kids wanna go see bands instead these days..

The rock scene certainly is bigger than the last few years, things come round again and as ever its the perception of a certain type of music that matters to these kids and also where all the other kids go. Remember that even though they go to these nights its a mini meat market to them. Just go and stand outside the under 18s night at the Wely Club in Hull and watch em roll out at 10pm.. its like watching the old days at the orbit empty out at 2am.

[RDR]

Sorry if you miss-understood in what I was saying basicly I was saying in general that some people that go to Techno nights held in the UK only go to them when when a big name Techno artist is playing & don't turn up when it's an artist they haven't heard of.

Well thats ccertainly a truism. What do you think about the reverse though?

IMHO i think variation is the key, along with the event. I dont think just having a diet of techno is the answer and hasnt been for years. Different genres of music at the same event makes things much nicer, House, Techno and DnB in one event? Wicked.

After all you dont see events with different bands on all playing EXACTLY the same genre of music in their sets do you? Rock, Thrash, EMO, Ska, Ballad.

[FuK-NuT]

Maybe we need to get someone to infiltrate mixmag and jockeyslut and whatever other mag there are.
Truth be told.

this is exactly wot im firing at with this thread....youngin'z need it slapped into them sadly....i feel there aint enough happening to get our music across to the future ie the KIDS!!

after every event over the coarse of 4 years we have handed out at least 100 cd's to our punters mixed by ourselfs or guests gone by....shit hot way off gettin the randoms hooked on our music...think the big boys need to take time out do some free mix cd's and get um thrown out at gigs, leave um in records shops etc etc....?

[Darkmode]

Well thats ccertainly a truism. What do you think about the reverse though?

IMHO i think variation is the key, along with the event. I dont think just having a diet of techno is the answer and hasnt been for years. Different genres of music at the same event makes things much nicer, House, Techno and DnB in one event? Wicked.

After all you dont see events with different bands on all playing EXACTLY the same genre of music in their sets do you? Rock, Thrash, EMO, Ska, Ballad.

I think it also happens at other nights as well not just Techno or Electro even it has happened at Drum n Bass nights where people only turn up to see big names play. I don't understand why people do that but as someone said in the thread it's not about the music anymore. They go to see the big names coz it's the cool thing to do so they can brag off to their so called cliky cool mates that they saw such & such play in a club. We now are living in a sheep Culture where people have no mind of their own & take any old shite that is thrown down by their throats by the media.

[dirty_bass]

Dance Music isn`t the BIG thing in music media at the moment.
Techno was never the Biggest draw in dance music, so we are in a situation of being out of the spotlight (unless you count minimal, which no matter how hard you fume and rant, is just a sub set of house, so there).
I think it`s a good thing.
The days of mashing out a bunch of compressed loops to the gurning masses are over.
We need to work harder at the music, as the fan base is reduced down to the hardcore, who really do "know the score" and want developement and interest from their music.

From out of this situation of high struggle, and techno going back underground, we will get frustration, conflict and desperation, and out of this there will be more push for the music to evolve and develop into something new and exciting, with attitude again, that might just cause a new spark to light, and the kids bored by faceless rock bands and the inherent music business conformity that comes with them, might well want to jump into the ambiguous world of independant dance music, and techno.

At least, that`s my wet dream.

[Little_Fella!]

Yeah, that's my wet dream too...

The wave will come round again.... it's a case of catching it when it does and riding the front of that wave before the bandwagon jumps on the back of it!!!:teach:

[RDR]

Yeah, that's my wet dream too...

The wave will come round again.... it's a case of catching it when it does and riding the front of that wave before the bandwagon jumps on the back of it!!!:teach:

Thing is with waves is that no two are alike, and those who continue to succeed are the ones who took the time to change both their outlook, image and the way they presented their music both in terms of method of playing and the sort of music they played.

Ive said it before, music IS the very essence of change, it revels in change, without change it wouldnt be exciting at all. Sure the wave will come back, but then no two waves are alike.

Techno in its very nature is supposed to be at the cutting edge of technology, yet I see so many people stuck in 1995, or 1990 or 1985... nothing wrong with that per-se but at what point does a person become an echo of technology rather than the sharpened blade of the music that made them sit up and take notice.

Or do we believe that we are different? Do we truly believe that we are nothing like the majority of bands who play covers or busk to make money so they can follow their art or song writing? What is a DJ if not a person who plays covers? When are we going to admit to ourselves that the special position we put ourselves in when we became "Techno" isnt really that special and the world owes us nothing... except that which we work hard enough to make for ourselves.

[FuK-NuT]

erm some o us still like going out and dancing to techno....uz old cunts can stay in all yeh want am gona strive to make tings better!

;)

[RDR]

erm some o us still like going out and dancing to techno....uz old cunts can stay in all yeh want am gona strive to make tings better!

;)

Less with the old :lol: :hissyfit: :Angry:

The C u Nt word is fair play.

Oh, and we DO run a techno night ;)

www.puretechno.co.uk

[dirty_bass]

erm some o us still like going out and dancing to techno....uz old cunts can stay in all yeh want am gona strive to make tings better!

;)

It`s not that simple though. That`s too reductionist.
Otherwise why buy records at all, why not just buy a 909, turn it on, and let it run for 6 hours plugged into the soundsystem while all the gurners jump about.

People make the music, people play the music, people dance to the music people listen to the music, it`s an organic lifeform.
And the people making it need to be still excited for the people dancing to it to remain interested, and not get bored.
The people dancing still need to be energised by the music, and so expect the people making it to come up with the goods.
the people who appreciate it more solidly want to listen to it as well outside of the clubs, and expect more than just boom boom
the people making it need some kind of money to support them, the studios, and the vast amount of time required to be able to make music of good quality
etc etc etc etc etc
It all interacts.

It`s not easy to boil it down to....
We just wanna get mash up and jump about, who cares about the other stuff

It`s complex, and requires thought.

however it`s also fun and hedonistic.

[davethedrummer]

It`s not that simple though. That`s too reductionist.
Otherwise why buy records at all, why not just buy a 909, turn it on, and let it run for 6 hours plugged into the soundsystem while all the gurners jump about.

reductionist!
now i've heard it all !!!

[theledge]

And the people making it need to be still excited for the people dancing to it to remain interested, and not get bored.
.

Exactly, and it's the producers and djs who nurtured their love for techno by sweating it out for endless hours on the dancefloor, transfixed by the beauty and power of the music, who end up translating their experiences into music and performances which do the same for others

There's too many djs and producers who just sit at home scratching their arse and ego, the only time you see them in a club they're behind the decks sucking the promoters cock or handing out flyers, they should get on the dancefloor and maybe learn something

[theledge]

as far as this thread goes in general, i've seen loads of promoters **** up by booking big names and having no-one turn up, even back in the so-called glory days. It was invariably because they didn't know what they were doing, didn't know the local punters, probably never went out themselves and held the mistaken belief that spending loads of money on a big name would guarantee them hundreds of heads through the door. I'd say that's likely to be the case here too tbh

Big name djs with successful careers earning loads of money like speedy j are the end result of a succesful mature party scene/culture/whatever, they don't guarantee its existence in themselves, just by turning up and hey presto partytime

[Kells]

as far as this thread goes in general, i've seen loads of promoters **** up by booking big names and having no-one turn up, even back in the so-called glory days. It was invariably because they didn't know what they were doing, didn't know the local punters, probably never went out themselves and held the mistaken belief that spending loads of money on a big name would guarantee them hundreds of heads through the door. I'd say that's likely to be the case here too tbh

Big name djs with successful careers earning loads of money like speedy j are the end result of a succesful mature party scene/culture/whatever, they don't guarantee its existence in themselves, just by turning up and hey presto partytime


In other words or to put it short, No matter who the hell you have on the bill, you still have to promote the arse out of it to get the end result..

if you dont you WILL loose out

[dirty_bass]

New methods of promotion are needed as well.

Relying on flyers alone just doesn`t cut it

[theledge]

In other words or to put it short, No matter who the hell you have on the bill, you still have to promote the arse out of it to get the end result..

if you dont you WILL loose out

to be honest i think the words promote the night kind of put the wrong spin on what is needed. if you mean loads of glossy flyers i don't agree, what is needed is the creation of a unique excitement factor, bubbling up via word of mouth....not just another manuactured night with a star name but a real local social gathering....this doesn't come from flyers, it can probably only be achieved by years of cultivating relationships and friendships across your local community, sweating it out on the dancefloor or doing whatever you do best, people will then listen to you and come to your party cos they're your friends and not just consumers

and of course that makes it a pleasure for you too :)

[theledge]

you want people to come because it's going to be a great party, not because they're techno obsessives who can't miss a helping of speedy j

[Mucky Beats]

yeh its deffo not about how many flyers you get printed and how big ur posters are or if you book big names ! its all about making people belive they will have a great night ,... that said for big numbers got to have right djs on and they tend to cost money. i feel you really got to get a following before you book big djs as with anything you got to build reputation and techno is 100% like that as many of us have been to techno nights with some well known techno dj on and there are like 20 people in and its not nice really is it. and so people need to trust the event is gunna be going off and that takes word of mouth, thing is there are no trade secrets for this i dont think anyway hehe ! think its all about getting out there and making people beleve in you and make sure every night is rocking.

[theledge]

it's all about the banter

reckon local djs are great for most occasions, seems you've got a good scene for that in wales, still it's good to get a big name in if a) they're ****ing brilliant b) they've got a sound attitude c) they're worth what you pay them if not financially then in what else they bring with them

[Mucky Beats]

yeh deffo mate i get what you are saying, when i use to run events in wales we would have like one decent headliner every so often as there worht the money and help keep things fresh and are great at what they do. i think its great in more rural places to as there aint so much on so people make effort when something is on to turn out.

but now with the event i run in manchester we can afford to get the bigger names as its a much bigger sceane and place and mainly people are more willing to travel to the city.

[theledge]

ok i'm a bit behind the times, :laughing:

[mattboyslim]

New methods of promotion are needed as well.

Relying on flyers alone just doesn`t cut it
something i've noticed up here is that people don't even pay attention to flyers anymore. The only time they probably come into contact with them is in a flyer pack given out outside a venue, and we've all been in that cunted state, leaving a venue, and thought 'yeah, great, roach material'. Chances of people actually reading it, let alone remembering what they've read is pretty slim.

Doesn't help that the council have introduced a license system (at high cost) to flyer in the city, so there aren't the saturday afternoon flyer teams.

We find well designed posters, in the right areas, do the job for us, with the internet promo to back it up. And as previously mentioned, building a 'community' around your event is the best way to spread word of mouth, and if you can do things this way, slowly getting bigger names on when you know you can afford it, you'll create a hype around your event that grows with you.

We're in a lucky position that our venue works with us, and for us. Not many promoters experience this with venues, and we've been messed about in the past

[Kells]

to be honest i think the words promote the night kind of put the wrong spin on what is needed. if you mean loads of glossy flyers i don't agree, what is needed is the creation of a unique excitement factor, bubbling up via word of mouth....not just another manuactured night with a star name but a real local social gathering....this doesn't come from flyers, it can probably only be achieved by years of cultivating relationships and friendships across your local community, sweating it out on the dancefloor or doing whatever you do best, people will then listen to you and come to your party cos they're your friends and not just consumers

and of course that makes it a pleasure for you too :)


trust me flyers are a very very VERY small part of a good promotion.!!! not many people get to actually see a flyer...
Im not gonna sit here and type exactly what i call a good promotion, as that is my business as im sure you can appreciate, but believe me, i DO NOT mean loads of glossy flyers Lol..and i speak out of years experience...

Of course an event has to always have some degree of excitement factor, this is why people wanna come aint it? then of course people talk about the event giving word of mouth.as you mention, this is another part of promotion.... i mean if a night looks boring or un imaganative why would peopke wanna go in the first place or re visit a second time and so on..., i am not sure if you really understand what promoting an event really involves, especially in hard citys like Leeds for instance...it will be very similar for any big City..

take this one for example, last time Beltram was at Joy, our mates had Dave Clarke and Technasia on the same night in the same town, beltram and clarke even thought this was mad, but it was out of our hands, our event was marketed first. (i dropped beltram off at clarkes hotel for drinks), both nights were a sucess but still, we had to work our asses of... as friends were split with decisions on where to go, so you deffo meed more than just friends to be your customers and as i stressed before flyers make for a tiny part of the whole package.

also can you explain why the word "promote" puts a wrong spin on things....if you dont promote the event, their will be No event hehe, and even if you cultivate hundereds of friends as you say, you still have to promote it to these people dont you..


Out of interest, have you actually ever put on a event? i dont ask this question in a funny way im just interested to see where you are at with this..


I really do think the event in question at the start of this thread is down to lack of promotion, and/or lack of promotion to the right people etc., its hard for me to judge as i know little of the promotors in question so i reserve my words...

Hope i have made some sense here to you

[RDR]

There are other factors to take into account when it comes to flyers as well, years ago it was possible to promote on the night with runners giving out flyers to wandering people town centres, now thats not possible in leeds and probably manchester as the city councils will be more than rapid in charging promoters hundreds, possibly thousands to clean up the mess left by non-intersted punters throwing them around the streets.

I'd be intersted in hearing peoples ideas on how to get around this.. wandering trade gathering... I know its a small part, but never-the-less can be quite lucrative on the door.

Its good to see people here putting "The Party" up at the top of this tree rather than the performer. I want to go to a safe, friendly, well catered for event. If i wanted randomness i would wait for free parties to rock up during the summer. The days of the meat market are over... at least as part of a techno event.

[theledge]

trust me flyers are a very very VERY small part of a good promotion.!!! not many people get to actually see a flyer...
Im not gonna sit here and type exactly what i call a good promotion, as that is my business as im sure you can appreciate, but believe me, i DO NOT mean loads of glossy flyers Lol..and i speak out of years experience...

Of course an event has to always have some degree of excitement factor, this is why people wanna come aint it? then of course people talk about the event giving word of mouth.as you mention, this is another part of promotion.... i mean if a night looks boring or un imaganative why would peopke wanna go in the first place or re visit a second time and so on..., i am not sure if you really understand what promoting an event really involves, especially in hard citys like Leeds for instance...it will be very similar for any big City..

take this one for example, last time Beltram was at Joy, our mates had Dave Clarke and Technasia on the same night in the same town, beltram and clarke even thought this was mad, but it was out of our hands, our event was marketed first. (i dropped beltram off at clarkes hotel for drinks), both nights were a sucess but still, we had to work our asses of... as friends were split with decisions on where to go, so you deffo meed more than just friends to be your customers and as i stressed before flyers make for a tiny part of the whole package.

also can you explain why the word "promote" puts a wrong spin on things....if you dont promote the event, their will be No event hehe, and even if you cultivate hundereds of friends as you say, you still have to promote it to these people dont you..


Out of interest, have you actually ever put on a event? i dont ask this question in a funny way im just interested to see where you are at with this..


I really do think the event in question at the start of this thread is down to lack of promotion, and/or lack of promotion to the right people etc., its hard for me to judge as i know little of the promotors in question so i reserve my words...

Hope i have made some sense here to you

i dislike the word 'promotion' because to me it conjures up thoughts of glossy flyers, press releases and general marketing schtum, now of course these all have a place, i'm just saying that there's more to it than that.

to be honest when i feel someone is trying to 'promote a night' at me, they usually get a polite smile followed by the short shrift they deserve. glossy flyers don't (usually) cut the mustard. i get excited about a night when there's a real word of mouth factor, my friends are going, when i feel there's going to be a great party (plus the bonus of seeing a great techno act at the same time)

of course creating this is easier said than done. hence why most new techno nights **** up.

to be honest i wasn't aiming the previous post at you, i probably shouldn't have carelessly quoted you. ;)




i am not sure if you really understand what promoting an event really involves, especially in hard citys like Leeds for instance...it will be very similar for any big City..

I cut my techno teeth in Leeds as it goes, lived there for years, ran techno nights at the west indian centre a few years ago. Think i left before Joy started but i heard you guys are doing a great job up there :)

[Kells]

i dislike the word 'promotion' because to me it conjures up thoughts of glossy flyers, press releases and general marketing schtum, now of course these all have a place, i'm just saying that there's more to it than that.

to be honest when i feel someone is trying to 'promote a night' at me, they usually get a polite smile followed by the short shrift they deserve. glossy flyers don't (usually) cut the mustard. i get excited about a night when there's a real word of mouth factor, my friends are going, when i feel there's going to be a great party (plus the bonus of seeing a great techno act at the same time)

of course creating this is easier said than done. hence why most new techno nights **** up.

to be honest i wasn't aiming the previous post at you, i probably shouldn't have carelessly quoted you. ;)




I cut my techno teeth in Leeds as it goes, lived there for years, ran techno nights at the west indian centre a few years ago. Think i left before Joy started but i heard you guys are doing a great job up there :)



Cool mate, what event did you run, Must have been a while as its almost 5 years Joy has been running (legally) now hehe (how time flies)

i was under the inpression you aimed it as me/us but i now realise you hadnt hehe, i had to make a stand as we put a hell of alot into our events, not just money but alot of (too much in fact) of our personal time, if we didnt their would, to put it simple, be no Joy...Leeds is extremely hard now for techno, almost imposibble to do it on a very regular basis, as i said in a previous post, Alot of leeds think they are listening to techno when they are not, they come to a place like Joy etc and crap themself hahaha.
You really have to work it hard and make sure you reach the correct people to market the event to. hence the reason its so important to know your crowd, i think this is a point you even touched on earlier..
Alot of our crowd travel from out of town.


also just to reply to RDR, we actually do have people flyer on the streets still, and get away with it :) Just!! but its very hard to do so, the council have really clamped down, we have also had fines for illegal fly postering and all sorts of other troubles in the past

:)

[Little_Fella!]

Ive said it before, music IS the very essence of change, it revels in change, without change it wouldnt be exciting at all. Sure the wave will come back, but then no two waves are alike.

Techno in its very nature is supposed to be at the cutting edge of technology, yet I see so many people stuck in 1995, or 1990 or 1985... nothing wrong with that per-se but at what point does a person become an echo of technology rather than the sharpened blade of the music that made them sit up and take notice.

Or do we believe that we are different? Do we truly believe that we are nothing like the majority of bands who play covers or busk to make money so they can follow their art or song writing? What is a DJ if not a person who plays covers? When are we going to admit to ourselves that the special position we put ourselves in when we became "Techno" isnt really that special and the world owes us nothing... except that which we work hard enough to make for ourselves.

Yeah, very well put and I think everyone likes to believe that their particular genre of music is the most special on the planet - - and yet there is the reality that you mention...

My motivation to do something in the world of Techno is purely because it is a type of music that for a long time would throw at you sounds and scapes that you have never heard before, and emotional journeys within a dance music format that I had never been on, which I struggled with at first, but then got the point and fell in love with...

What is the motivation these days to put in the large amount of effort, physically and emotionally, that is required to run a moderately successfull night... surely the initial motivation has to come from within in order to sustain the emotional drive that will keep your belief system in place when the going gets tough.??? ....hmmm:coffee:

[Little_Fella!]

Loads iof folk came especially to see him play @ Joy, we had a hell of alot of people calling about the event and asking about him, even after the event we had calls asking when the bloody event was...which is annoying !!


Let's not forget 'The Advent' were on that night aswell, which I really enjoyed...

T'was a good show and people were queuing early which was a good sign... the headline acts were being mentioned by people while I stood outside, so that goes to show that they had their pulling power...

I had a good shimmy round Leeds and it is true that you have your work cut out as almost everywhere is set up for beer culture and fashion parade, which out of pure association punters will integrate in to... which means you have to increase your promotional efforts to fight against the 'sheep' mentality'... hmmm

[Kells]

Let's not forget 'The Advent' were on that night aswell, which I really enjoyed...

T'was a good show and people were queuing early which was a good sign... the headline acts were being mentioned by people while I stood outside, so that goes to show that they had their pulling power...

I had a good shimmy round Leeds and it is true that you have your work cut out as almost everywhere is set up for beer culture and fashion parade, which out of pure association punters will integrate in to... which means you have to increase your promotional efforts to fight against the 'sheep' mentality'... hmmm


Advent was fantastic :)

and what you metion here regarding leeds is spot on mate, its good you have recognised this and im glad somebody else has now highlighted this on here, its going to get worse.....watch this space, leeds will be changing even more soon....im not sure its a good thing, well im sure its not, especially for the more purist club nights like Joy....

Theirs far too many sheep in the city, who dont go out for the music...massive shame..

[theledge]

Advent was fantastic :)

and what you metion here regarding leeds is spot on mate, its good you have recognised this and im glad somebody else has now highlighted this on here, its going to get worse.....watch this space, leeds will be changing even more soon....im not sure its a good thing, well im sure its not, especially for the more purist club nights like Joy....

Theirs far too many sheep in the city, who dont go out for the music...massive shame..

it wasn't always like that was it, the entire city has gone upmarket over the last decade and the population has changed a lot

even the students are of a better off and less fun-loving calibre these days due to the university doing so well

[Kells]

it wasn't always like that was it, the entire city has gone upmarket over the last decade and the population has changed a lot

even the students are of a better off and less fun-loving calibre these days due to the university doing so well

So true...

[clubsynthetic]

i mind that night fuk-nut...

the guys promoting it hardly done any promotion for it at all. and i was always out flyering left right an centre.

i also think sucess comes in waves when it comes to doing a clubnight.

no matter who it is, some you win, some you don't.