LIST your ideal reference tracks

[RDR]

OK. So, what do we all use as A/B reference tracks when mixing down?

List what you use or think is a good starting point, so that everyone else can benefit.

Techno: [Insert name here and track title]
House:
Drum and Bass:
Ambient:
Hardcore:
Breakbeat:

GO!

[stjohn]

lau sent me a Loktibrada rmx of one of his radial tunes... the kick and bass are monstrous, the percussion is lush and the high end is gorgeous...

i always go to that for techno stuff anyway

[stjohn]

sorry...

Techno: Radial - Beton (loktibrada rmx)

Breakbeat: Clark - Dead Shark Eyes

[loopdon]

TECHNO(ISH):

SAMIM - The FLOW (ALBUM)
ROB ACID/ROBERT BABICZ - ALL HIS RECENT STUFF REALLY
EFDEMIN - LATST ALBUM ON DIAL
JOEL MULL -THE OBSERVER ALBUM AND EVERYTHING RECENT
UMEK's (older stuff) - LANICOR ETC.
...

Just a short list of what popped into my mind. There are great artists on this forum as well, but i have lost track recently.

[dirty_bass]

I never reference independant dance music, ever ever, always use modern well produced studio albums.

Reference CD`s I use.

Songs of Faith and Devotion - Depeche Mode
100th Window - Massive Attack
Superunknown - Soundgarden
Second Nature - Young Gods
The fat of the land - Prodigy
OK Computer - Radiohead
Second toughest in the infants - Underworld
Joshua Tree - U2
Ray of Light - Madonna
Body Language - Kylie Monigue
Homework - Daft Punk
Exit planet Dust - Chemical Brothers
Disintigration - The Cure
Clear - Bomb the bass
Post - Bjork

[RDR]

Excellent... bring em on!!!

[rhythmtech]

my referance tracks

as d/b says i tend not to use techno as referance really and if i do it tends to be the more commercial end of dance (leftfield, chems etc) -

if i do need to referance "techno" then i'd usually go for something by beltram (from rising sun) or collabs stuff as they're both very much how i want my techno to sound (not necceserily stylistically - more from an engineering point of view).

albums i'd use
radiohead - the bends (gotta agree there steve)
the micronauts - beep to bleep
paul weller - stanley road
primal scream - vanishing point

[Nomak]

What are the reasons for not using techno for referencing, if you are producing techno?

I had never actually considered referencing at all as I have not long started learning really, but it seems like a good idea and I am interested to know the thought process behind it.

Thanks

[massplanck]

Orbital or Leftfield for me.

[dirty_bass]

What are the reasons for not using techno for referencing, if you are producing techno?

I had never actually considered referencing at all as I have not long started learning really, but it seems like a good idea and I am interested to know the thought process behind it.

Thanks

As a whole, techno production is mediocre at best, when compared to the whole field of musical production engineering.
I always think if you listen to, take example from, and aspire to the highest level of production possible, this can only be healthy and inspiring.
Why aspire to mediocrity?

I try to listen to as wide a field of reputed productions as possible, to get a good idea of overall sound treatment techniques.

[Jay Pace]

Some techno (good stuff) is engineered to kick ass on rigs though. Mastered for clubs, not hifis. Plenty of commercial listening albums are mastered to be played on home stereos, not high powered PAs.

So definitely aspire to the good stuff, but its not a bad rule of thumb to use reference tracks that you know absolutely kill when played through a rig.

So for me, Joris Voorn stuff is great because its a sound I really like and not that dissimilar, and I know it sounds amazing when played out. Same goes for Steve Rachmad, Joey Beltram, speedy j and some of the new minus stuff.

All depends on what you want your music to do I think...

[dirty_bass]

Some techno (good stuff) is engineered to kick ass on rigs though. Mastered for clubs, not hifis. Plenty of commercial listening albums are mastered to be played on home stereos, not high powered PAs.

So definitely aspire to the good stuff, but its not a bad rule of thumb to use reference tracks that you know absolutely kill when played through a rig.

So for me, Joris Voorn stuff is great because its a sound I really like and not that dissimilar, and I know it sounds amazing when played out. Same goes for Steve Rachmad, Joey Beltram, speedy j and some of the new minus stuff.

All depends on what you want your music to do I think...

Nope, well produced music is well produced music, on a rig or no.
Stick something from jilted generation on arig.
Sounds great. Dynamic, powerful tight bass, full crisp mids, present highs.
Sounds good on both Rig and Home listening.
It was engineered properly.

[Jay Pace]

Jilted generation perhaps - it is dance music after all.

But there's a difference between mastering for hifis (expectattion of loudness buttons, bass boosts, little to no sub bass at times) and mastering for clubs no?

You could make a lovely balanced album that sounds great on a hifi and a little flat on a rig compared to other dance tracks.

If you don't reference good dance tracks you could end up making nice sounding stuff that doesn't sit well in the mix with other club tracks.

[massplanck]

Theres no such things as mastering for hifi vs bigs rigs etc really though. You master for the medium you are realsing on.. CD, Vinyl whatever. I would not trust 99% of normal dance music.. commericals cds do the job fine .

[massplanck]

Anyway most dance music these days is heard on mp3 players ;)

[Jay Pace]

You have to be more conscious of what the "standard" is for dance music. You could make a nice balanced track that would sound great in isolation, but dull and flat when sat next to two other tracks in the mix which have deeper bass or crisper highs.

And especially if your track is going to be played out over a rig that has 6k of bass dedicated to the 40-120 hz region if your track doesn't do much in that region and everyone elses track does your track will sound shit.

[massplanck]

And especially if your track is going to be played out over a rig that has 6k of bass dedicated to the 40-120 hz region if your track doesn't do much in that region and everyone elses track does your track will sound shit.

I'm pretty sure a prodigy CD would sound like 'the shit' over that kind of rig.

One thing I will say. You said you use minus release for referencing against. I think Rod Modell does the mastering for them. That guy knows his shit.

[Jay Pace]

Prodigy was music made to batter dancefloors, so no suprises when it took that quality to the commercial releases. Same with loads of others to be honest, leftfield, orbital, chemical brothers etc. Still think its a fair point that to make a good dance track you need to have some knowledge about how the rig it will be played on will work. You can then max out your track to take full advantage of rig design.

I think the minus sound is just incredibly polished and lush, and nearly all their records translate beautifully on rigs and hifis so for me they work really well as reference tracks.

[Jay Pace]

Speedy j - electric deluxe

Great example of a track thats sounds okish through bedroom speakers but is absolutely devastating through a rig.

[p_brane]

Speedy j - electric deluxe

Great example of a track thats sounds okish through bedroom speakers but is absolutely devastating through a rig.

anything off loudboxer sounds great at home and you know its gonna rip it up in a club, that'd be my choice anyways

[Elvio Neto]

"Planetary assault systems - vodoo" <--- this is what i call techno

anyone know artists with the same type of sound? post the name of the tracks please :)

[dirty_bass]

But there's a difference between mastering for hifis (expectattion of loudness buttons, bass boosts, little to no sub bass at times) and mastering for clubs no?


No not at all.
Mastering is mastering really, except when you are dealing with the shortfalls of the final medium (ie vinyl).

A good track mastered well will sound great both at home and on the rig.
Hence, the prodigy, mixed (and mastered too I believe) at Strongroom studios, by a damn good engineer, sounds great on whatever you play it on.
That is the whole point of mastering.

[dirty_bass]

Speedy j - electric deluxe

Great example of a track thats sounds okish through bedroom speakers but is absolutely devastating through a rig.

Because it wasn`t mastered properly.
Soundsystems are very forgiving, which is why you can play a reasonably shoddy live pa with hardware kit, which will sound great on the night, but if recorded on the night, will sound absolute turd in any other environment.

Club soundsystems are rarely engineered properly.
The crossovers and limiters are generally set generically and not to the type of music specific to each night (drum and bass rig engineering should be different to techno, and live band engineering etc).
Speaker matching, amp matching, accoustics blah blah blah blah.
Club soundsystems are rarely hi fi.
So there are no real rules for producing for a soundsystem (except maybe, don`t waste bass ebergy in the super lows, and some top frequencies can be unpleasant at high volume)
You are better off trusting your monitors and referencing to properly produced hi end commercial music that will translate everywhere.