How many folk here play live sets with (mainly) live drum/synth synthysis

[clubsynthetic]

I'm making choons in ableton. I'm trying to under the fundementals of layering, texture and understanding the vst i'm using as much as i can. I also trying to automate my synthysizer(s) and effect(s) so i can drag them into my live set.

I want a midi controller - http://www.chemical-records.co.uk/sc/servlet/Info?Track=MPK49 - so i can have as much control as possible over my patterns and variables within the effects and synthesizers.

personally, when i see folk play mp3s it confuses my as to how much control they have over there live set and how much they are using there midi controller to controll only effects.

what do other people use to play live sets? and how do you use it?

share your knowledge.

[dirty_bass]

I play a live PA

I generally run about 8 tracks of audio + 2 vst synths at any one time.

I split my tunes up into parts, bass, main percussion, hats, stabs etc and turn some parts over to live vsti synths

Every channel has a high and low pass filter, some have extra effects, plus I run a bank of 4 effects vsti`s over the master outputs as well as master out filters.

I use a BCF2000 as my controller, and just about manage to do everything, I`m at the limit of what I can manage really at the mo, but I get better all the time. I do play about 2 or 3 fully recorded tracks in each pa to test new material and tracks that just can`t be played live.

I would say I play as live as I possibly can up to my current abilities.

I have seen some woefully pathetic "live" pa`s in ableton though.

Just Djing tunes together with maybe some extra effects. Terrible.

[rhythmtech]

at the moment im still playing a ableton dj set with loops and fx thrown over the top and a few tracks done live (only 2/3 though).. but then i dont advertise it as a live pa.

im still working on a full pa but im getting nowhere fast.. i just find the final sound doesnt cut it compared to some live pa's ive heard.. so until it does i wont be playing it out.

[clubsynthetic]

excellent. Just to clarify for others its tips/discriptions on architecture and stucture etc of what your using in your software rather than the debate of why one might not be live. Just incase..

Right now i'm playing with drumatic, have 6 separate audio tracks to route (whenever i want total control of drum sounds) my midi triggered drum sounds through and have a bit of beat repeat repeat on with (a subtle bit) of glitch and camel distortion thingy. right now i'm messing with recorded midi patterns and automated beat repeats to get the hang of this changing time signature lark and changing variables on the drumatic synthesizer.

Right now i'm wondering if its possible to change patch's for your vst drum/synth pattern in the middle of a live set.. i.e patchs for moving from choon to choon..

[rhythmtech]

for the live pa im working on i use ableton live, d16 drumazon, audiorealism bassline and kontact aswell as audio channels.

i use drumazon and bassline in pattern mode so its easy to change for each track and i have all the midi clips mapped to kontakt on differant midi channels (depending on the sound i want)

i also run 6 audio channels - usually kick/snare/perc/cymbals/vocal/fx

each channel has ableton 3 band dj style eq, low pass filter and delay & im currently experimenting with fx on the master out to try and get the right sound. currently i just have a compressor and eq.

its all controlled with a behringer bcr & bdf

[tocsin]

I've always had a hard time considering a set "live" if it didn't involve the playing of an instrument that wasn't sequenced.

[rhythmtech]

I've always had a hard time considering a set "live" if it didn't involve the playing of an instrument that wasn't sequenced.

unfortunatly most of us arent blessed with 4 hands :hmmm:

[TechMouse]

I've always had a hard time considering a set "live" if it didn't involve the playing of an instrument that wasn't sequenced.
Techno thrives on sequencing though.

Without rigidly sequenced programming Techno wouldn't exist.

[stjohn]

at the moment im still playing a ableton dj set with loops and fx thrown over the top and a few tracks done live (only 2/3 though).. but then i dont advertise it as a live pa.

im still working on a full pa but im getting nowhere fast.. i just find the final sound doesnt cut it compared to some live pa's ive heard.. so until it does i wont be playing it out.

ive seen ye billed as Live loads of times:eek: ... either way im still undecided where i stand with the whole thing..

i suppose if a performer is and looks like he's trying hard and changing things up...
then all is good for me

[RDR]

I play a live PA

I generally run about 8 tracks of audio + 2 vst synths at any one time.

I split my tunes up into parts, bass, main percussion, hats, stabs etc and turn some parts over to live vsti synths

Every channel has a high and low pass filter, some have extra effects, plus I run a bank of 4 effects vsti`s over the master outputs as well as master out filters.

I use a BCF2000 as my controller, and just about manage to do everything, I`m at the limit of what I can manage really at the mo, but I get better all the time. I do play about 2 or 3 fully recorded tracks in each pa to test new material and tracks that just can`t be played live.

I would say I play as live as I possibly can up to my current abilities.

I have seen some woefully pathetic "live" pa`s in ableton though.

Just Djing tunes together with maybe some extra effects. Terrible.

Thats EXACTLY or there abouts the same as me

except i use around 10 tracks of audio and 2 VSts, and have reverb and delay on some sends with 2 dials controlling 5 sends on the right and 5 on the left.

i wish i had more hands though.. and i use fully formed tracks as well, perhap 2 or three in an hour, placed mainly so i can go for a WEEEE! if needed :lol:

[RDR]

I've always had a hard time considering a set "live" if it didn't involve the playing of an instrument that wasn't sequenced.

it isnt sequenced unless I sequence it though is it.

[tocsin]

it isnt sequenced unless I sequence it though is it.

I just don't consider it the same as "live." I've done "live PAs" with the following setups:

1.) 1 person on sequencer + 1 person on keyboards + 1 person on visuals.

2.) 1 person on Traktor + 1 person on keyboards + 1 person on visuals.

3.) 1 person on Traktor + 2 people on keyboards.

4.) 1 person on sequencer and keyboards + 1 person on visuals.

5.) 1 person on Ableton and keyboards + 1 person on additional Ableton rig + 2 people on circuit bent noisemakers + 1 person on visuals.

From an audio standpoint, the only time I came close to doing a Live PA by myself was situation 4, which I only did twice. In my opinion, if there's no true way to make a noticable mistake, or to truly improvise off the cuff, it's just hard for me to consider "live."

[dirty_bass]

From an audio standpoint, the only time I came close to doing a Live PA by myself was situation 4, which I only did twice. In my opinion, if there's no true way to make a noticable mistake, or to truly improvise off the cuff, it's just hard for me to consider "live."

I **** up a few times during a set most of the time. I am right on the limit of what I can manage though, as I try to make my pa sound like a DJ mix, and move from tune to tune fairly quickly, rather than
start with kick
build
back down to kick
next tune

I am most definitely playing live.
I`ve been toying with the idea of incorporating my new electronic drum kit into my live set up, but the logistics of karting that around with me is just crazy.
I might compromise and start taking out a keyboard as well to play in some basslines

[davethedrummer]

i just put a cd on and go to the bar

[rhythmtech]

ive seen ye billed as Live loads of times:eek: ... either way im still undecided where i stand with the whole thing..

i suppose if a performer is and looks like he's trying hard and changing things up...
then all is good for me

yup.. i used to do it with cubase b4 i got ableton.. again not exactly live.. more just sequenced with a midi controller doing fx.

[audioinjection]

i just put a cd on and go to the bar

hell yeah, take the peter hook approach

:P

[dirty_bass]

i just put a cd on and go to the bar

Sometimes I wish I did do that.

As an aside, when you do your squillion hour DJ sets, what do you do when you need a good shittin?

[RDR]

Sometimes I wish I did do that.

As an aside, when you do your squillion hour DJ sets, what do you do when you need a good shittin?

Colostomy...

its just not my bag.

@Tocsin - ive played with someone doing live visuals, hell I VJ myself whenever I can, but they/I use video loops a lot of the time, we're talking about music no? And by your terms its invalid the be by yourself doing a set.

which is nonsense. sorry but it really is.

[holotropik]

I have been muckin around playin live for a few years. Just trying to use machines rather than PCs/Midi Controllers.

I like to keep it simple and just mix loops I have written on the machines and try and create a thread that can be followed and loosly called Techno. Just layering samples and perc loops and effects n stuff.

Now I just use two machines and the Zero8 mixer. Will get around to maybe feeding loops from Ableton into it all.....or I may just buy another ESX-1 and just play with two ESX-1s.....??

Not playin much these dayz :(

[DVNT]

I think there is a big confusion arising from the Ableton 'Live' name of the software and the term DJ Name (Live)

Everyone is going to have a different level of what they consistute as live. A bit like music genres and that.

[fatcollective]

my mates is an amazing guitar player and has some really good fx pedals, thinking of getting him to jam along sometime time see how it works!

[RDR]

my mates is an amazing guitar player and has some really good fx pedals, thinking of getting him to jam along sometime time see how it works!

Sounds good man, I love working with other musicians live, ive worked with bassists and vocals before now and it was wicked!

[acidsaturation]

Sounds good man, I love working with other musicians live, ive worked with bassists and vocals before now and it was wicked!

I've had some fun doing that, putting live guitars instead of the samples I usually use... Unfortunately went back to samples mostly, 'cos creative as my mate's playing was, a couple of pints and his timing went well shoddy :hmmm:

As for live, and being a hardware luddite, I run with 2 electribes playing their own loops, and my RM1-x doing the body of a tune sequencing loops on various other bits and bobs and mix and match that all together... I have the tunes set up in my head, and they are written as tunes that follow a pattern, but I can move bits about, extend a section if folk are liking it, or move on if they don't etc...

As said before, doing what I do, how I do it I think that is as live as I can with my set up and abilities...

Do still think my multi-coloured cable spaghetti is more visually interesting than a lap-top :tongue: even if I really do need to get a driving licence and a large van very soon...

[RDR]

I've had some fun doing that, putting live guitars instead of the samples I usually use... Unfortunately went back to samples mostly, 'cos creative as my mate's playing was, a couple of pints and his timing went well shoddy :hmmm:

As for live, and being a hardware luddite, I run with 2 electribes playing their own loops, and my RM1-x doing the body of a tune sequencing loops on various other bits and bobs and mix and match that all together... I have the tunes set up in my head, and they are written as tunes that follow a pattern, but I can move bits about, extend a section if folk are liking it, or move on if they don't etc...

As said before, doing what I do, how I do it I think that is as live as I can with my set up and abilities...

Do still think my multi-coloured cable spaghetti is more visually interesting than a lap-top :tongue: even if I really do need to get a driving licence and a large van very soon...

Thats the thing isnt it, a laptop looks horrible as musical device... even im embaressed about it, and its mine.

LOL

[acidsaturation]

Maybe people should add a projector and show their laptop screen so people can see what they are really doing... Sorry I meant so people can add some more visual excitement to their sets

*runs* tee hee :tongue:

I just like playing with my knob(s)

[RDR]

Maybe people should add a projector and show their laptop screen so people can see what they are really doing... Sorry I meant so people can add some more visual excitement to their sets

*runs* tee hee :tongue:

I just like playing with my knob(s)

Crude child, they're called Potentiometers

That is all.

[rhythmtech]

just add a few midi controllers. makes life more interesting for you and the crowd as (if you're bothered about it) you spend much more time fuking with sound and actually look like you're doing something other than checking your mail!!! ;)

the only time i ever use my mouse is for starting up the laptop or if i cant remember which clips or scenes are mapped to my qwerty (i really should get little stickers!)

[tocsin]

Maybe people should add a projector and show their laptop screen so people can see what they are really doing... Sorry I meant so people can add some more visual excitement to their sets

*runs* tee hee :tongue:

I just like playing with my knob(s)

Haha. Well, I actually agree with this 100%. In 90% of the live techno performances I've done, one person has always been manning an Arkaos terminal hooked up to a projector to provide a live visual show. I've even done that when just DJing solo. For most techno, whether it's turntables or a live performance, it's boring for most of the crowd to watch someone on the setup. Only downside to doing live visuals is that, in order to make it something cool, it's an entirely separate task that takes up a lot of time in preparation. But, in my opinion, it's worth it.

[tocsin]

@Tocsin - ive played with someone doing live visuals, hell I VJ myself whenever I can, but they/I use video loops a lot of the time, we're talking about music no? And by your terms its invalid the be by yourself doing a set.


I'm not sure I'm following you here. I never said you couldn't do a set by yourself. From an audio point, as I said earlier, I've done it twice. For me to play live, and do live visuals at the same time, however, would be impossible for me. As for as talking about music, I thought the discussion was just about a "live PA." I've gone into how I've done my "live PA" with others. As for the visual components, yes, video loops are used. However, they aren't sequenced. I assign either a video loop, a still image, or an effect to a key on a MIDI keyboard, and then play it to the music by hand. That's not something that people will notice any "mistake" on though.

[dirty_bass]

Who gives a flying **** how interesting it looks?
How interesting is it to see a guitarist wank the fretboard? I`ve Been into guitar band music for longer than I have been into electronics, and I`ve seen countless gigs. I find nothing interesting about someone playing a guitar or drums anymore, as I`ve seen it so many times, but I don`t suddenly expect musicians to start playing more than 1 instrument at once just to keep me interested.
The sound coming out of the speakers is paramount, and as long as I can see there is someone playing the sublime music I`m listening to, that`s enough for me.

I thought clubs were about dancing and drinking and munting and celebrating life. I want people to dance, not trainspot me all night to see my every exact move. When did we become dancing monkeys???
As long as the crowd get some indication that your performance is honest then shouldn`t that be enough?

If people aren`t entertained enough by the music and need to come and stare at the performer rather than dance, then the music itself needs a re-think.

[davethedrummer]

my mates is an amazing guitar player and has some really good fx pedals, thinking of getting him to jam along sometime time see how it works!


it'll sound like guitar verses techno mark my words
no good will come of it
do not cross the streams

[dirty_bass]

it'll sound like guitar verses techno mark my words
no good will come of it
do not cross the streams

I agree, guitars and techno just don`t work, in fact, it sucks.

Only people who ever really got it almost right was cubanate.

[tocsin]

Who gives a flying **** how interesting it looks?


From my experience, the audience.



How interesting is it to see a guitarist wank the fretboard?

Guitar players find it interesting in the same way turntablists find watching a turntablist perform interesting, in addition to a crowd. But, especially for bands that aren't doing anything all that interesting to watch with their instruments, stage shows are no stranger to such performances either.



I don`t suddenly expect musicians to start playing more than 1 instrument at once just to keep me interested.

That's missing the point though if you're respnding to me.



The sound coming out of the speakers is paramount, and as long as I can see there is someone playing the sublime music I`m listening to, that`s enough for me.


Consider yourself a minority. For many, sound is a factor, but not paramount. It's why people with a good sound, and also a good visual aspect, always seem to entertain the crowd more than those who just have a good sound.



I thought clubs were about dancing and drinking and munting and celebrating life. I want people to dance, not trainspot me all night to see my every exact move. When did we become dancing monkeys???


One of the main reasons I incorporate visuals into just about everything when I can. I'm not a dancing monkey and already know it will pretty much be boring to watch what I'm doing. Yet, for odd reasons, when stuck in noticable view, people do tend to stare unless you direct their attention elsewhere. So, why not make it fun and add another layer to things?



As long as the crowd get some indication that your performance is honest then shouldn`t that be enough?


"Should" is not a realistic element here.



If people aren`t entertained enough by the music and need to come and stare at the performer rather than dance, then the music itself needs a re-think.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. In my experience, it's never been the case, even though most people would say the music needed a rethink because it was "hardcore." But, that's chinstroker nonsense. Adding another layer to a performance, particularly visual, isn't about pleasing and distracting chinstrokers. It's about directing the attention of the crowd in general away from something that would otherwise be boring and making something that much more enjoyable.

[TechMouse]

@Tocsin: I can see what you're getting at, but really you're saying that for you the ability to play an instrument (i.e. some level of virtuosity) is a requirement for a "Live PA".

I don't hold with such a requirement. Virtuosity is basically a motor skill at the end of the day. A commendable one, and I'm a sucker for a good musician on any level, but there is much more to performance than the ability to play an instrument.

For me, doing a Live PA is similar to conducting an orchestra - you have a range of different instruments at your command. Much of it has to be pre-prepared. Many of the notes have to be at least pattern sequenced, and unless you're Tim Exile all of your samples will be pre-recorded. Your job is to marshal all of this stuff together into something that's at least listenable. You can make this as easy or as difficult as you like - but make it too easy and it's incredibly boring for both you and the crowd.

Have it set up so there is some flexibility how you navigate around your material, so you can detour in different directions as the mood takes you, and you're on to a winner.

This is something I'm thinking about a lot at the moment.

[rhythmtech]

I agree, guitars and techno just don`t work, in fact, it sucks.

Only people who ever really got it almost right was cubanate.

agreed... and chris mccromack

[rhythmtech]

@Tocsin: I can see what you're getting at, but really you're saying that for you the ability to play an instrument (i.e. some level of virtuosity) is a requirement for a "Live PA".

I don't hold with such a requirement. Virtuosity is basically a motor skill at the end of the day. A commendable one, and I'm a sucker for a good musician on any level, but there is much more to performance than the ability to play an instrument.

For me, doing a Live PA is similar to conducting an orchestra - you have a range of different instruments at your command. Much of it has to be pre-prepared. Many of the notes have to be at least pattern sequenced, and unless you're Tim Exile all of your samples will be pre-recorded. Your job is to marshal all of this stuff together into something that's at least listenable. You can make this as easy or as difficult as you like - but make it too easy and it's incredibly boring for both you and the crowd.

Have it set up so there is some flexibility how you navigate around your material, so you can detour in different directions as the mood takes you, and you're on to a winner.

This is something I'm thinking about a lot at the moment.

exactly.. i play a ton of instruments from electronic to acoustic but it doesnt mean i wanna use them in a pa. far to busy with other stuff

as steve said, the sound is paramount

[tocsin]

@Tocsin: I can see what you're getting at, but really you're saying that for you the ability to play an instrument (i.e. some level of virtuosity) is a requirement for a "Live PA".

I wouldn't say it's a "requirement." It's just my opinion on it. "Live" is something I've always held as meaning that there is a chance of mistake. Kind of like a trapese artist in a sense. It's personal opinion, but not any "requirement" I'm throwing out there. I've found plenty of "live" Ableton or Traktor sets quite enjoyable. You won't find me badgering someone over whether or not they actually played "live."

[davethedrummer]

I wouldn't say it's a "requirement." It's just my opinion on it. "Live" is something I've always held as meaning that there is a chance of mistake. Kind of like a trapese artist in a sense. It's personal opinion, but not any "requirement" I'm throwing out there. I've found plenty of "live" Ableton or Traktor sets quite enjoyable. You won't find me badgering someone over whether or not they actually played "live."


thats way too many apostrophes for my liking

[dirty_bass]

From my experience, the audience.



Guitar players find it interesting in the same way turntablists find watching a turntablist perform interesting, in addition to a crowd. But, especially for bands that aren't doing anything all that interesting to watch with their instruments, stage shows are no stranger to such performances either.



That's missing the point though if you're respnding to me.



Consider yourself a minority. For many, sound is a factor, but not paramount. It's why people with a good sound, and also a good visual aspect, always seem to entertain the crowd more than those who just have a good sound.



One of the main reasons I incorporate visuals into just about everything when I can. I'm not a dancing monkey and already know it will pretty much be boring to watch what I'm doing. Yet, for odd reasons, when stuck in noticable view, people do tend to stare unless you direct their attention elsewhere. So, why not make it fun and add another layer to things?



"Should" is not a realistic element here.



Perhaps. Perhaps not. In my experience, it's never been the case, even though most people would say the music needed a rethink because it was "hardcore." But, that's chinstroker nonsense. Adding another layer to a performance, particularly visual, isn't about pleasing and distracting chinstrokers. It's about directing the attention of the crowd in general away from something that would otherwise be boring and making something that much more enjoyable.

I dunno man, I can only speak from experience.
I gave up DJing altogether in 2002.
I`ve been playing live regularly since, and I`ve never really had a problem with the visual issue. I`m probably more acitve than a DJ in terms of finger fiddling, and most good clubs have lights, projections ,lasers etc that cost 10`s of thousands of pounds, specifically designed to provide visual distraction.
Acknowledging the crowd especially when they are enjoying themselves, and most importantly getting myself into my music fully so I can ride the crest of the sound is generally all that`s needed.

There aren`t that many regular pa`s on the circuit really, but the good ones I have seen, (Seb Marks, DDR, BMB, Tim Exile, Dean Rodell, Paul Cortex to name a few)
have seemed to do all right in the keeping it humming stakes. Admittedly when people see it`s a pa and can see actions translate into audible changes they get more excited, but I`ve never seen people walk away because said performer isn`t tap dancing.

Maybe I`m missing something??

[dirty_bass]

agreed... and chris mccromack

Well, I didn`t even think erase techno needed a mention.
That`s the only truly working techno and distorted guitar record.
You could start to mention industrial, but then it`s more song structured, and the percussion isn`t the main element, so their is more room for the guitar
ala young gods
nitzer
chem lab
psychopomps
yada ydada

[TechMouse]

I`ve never seen people walk away because said performer isn`t tap dancing.
Tap dancing is a definite plus, though.

[dirty_bass]

Tap dancing is a definite plus, though.

It is but have you tried walking in them damn shoes after 8 or 9 sambucas?
Fecking nightmare.

[tocsin]

I dunno man, I can only speak from experience.
I gave up DJing altogether in 2002.


Same here. I DJ here and there.



I`ve been playing live regularly since, and I`ve never really had a problem with the visual issue. I`m probably more acitve than a DJ in terms of finger fiddling, and most good clubs have lights, projections ,lasers etc that cost 10`s of thousands of pounds, specifically designed to provide visual distraction.


And this is probably a very big difference between both regions and the actual music being played in that most of the venues in my locale (NYC) that would book what I've done as a live PA do not have expensive visual set ups. Most didn't even have basic lights. And for a number of the ones that do, they are just very basic stage style lights. Old disco effect. No lasers or anything truly pretty. That's not the only reason, or even the main one, that I've enjoyed incorporating visuals though. It's just another layer to the music and, if you are trying to communicate a message with it, it helps significantly.



Maybe I`m missing something??

Yeah. I'm not stressing in the slightest that DJs or performers need to be dancers.

[dirty_bass]

I`ve often thought of incorporating visuals into my music purely because I am an artist (for want of a better word)
I have a degree in animation and still keenly pursue my visual artistry, however, you can`t do a good job of the music, if you are trying to do visuals as well. It`s simply too much, and the quality of one performance will be reduced to compensate for the other
Jack of all trades, master of none etc.

That`s why we have VJ`s

If there was some interactive plugin like you get on winamp that could sync to ableton, say, then that would be gravey.

[tocsin]

I`ve often thought of incorporating visuals into my music purely because I am an artist (for want of a better word)
I have a degree in animation and still keenly pursue my visual artistry, however, you can`t do a good job of the music, if you are trying to do visuals as well. It`s simply too much, and the quality of one performance will be reduced to compensate for the other
Jack of all trades, master of none etc.


That's why one person always manned each perspective part in the setups I've played. We'd sometimes trade up here and there. But, I've never done a Live PA where I was running a sequencer, playing melodies, and doing visuals all at the same time by myself. However, this is actually something that could be pulled off pretty well with Arkaos if one did the proper advance preparation. Everything is controllable by MIDI, with the parameters being assignable.

[dirty_bass]

Archoas is essentially the visual equivalent of loop triggering though.
I`d like something more reactive.
Or has it got better?

[tocsin]

Archoas is essentially the visual equivalent of loop triggering though.
I`d like something more reactive.
Or has it got better?

Kinda. It can be used that way on a very basic level. But, there's more ways to manipulate what you work with now. Essentially, it's a multi-layered VJ interface that is controllable with a MIDI keyboard. You can assign movies, still images, flash files, live input from a camera, numerous built in FX, and add-on "freeframe" plugins to the keys of a MIDI keyboard. For something you want to loop repeatedly, or for an effect you just want to stay on, you can set a key to "latch" so whatever is assigned to it continues running until you hit it again. Otherwise, it only runs for as long as you hold the key.

It's fairly different from a number of VJ apps out there and, given I use a MIDI keyboard for just about everything, was the most intuitive for me. Plus, the way in which you can build effects and imagery on top of each other is very cool. The biggest power in it, in my opinion, is the ability to set just about every possible variable in the thing, on the base level and the effects level, to a knob or slider.

[dirty_bass]

there`s no reactive 3d objects or fractals though
it`s just loops and effects?

[tocsin]

there`s no reactive 3d objects or fractals though
it`s just loops and effects?

There are reactive 3d objects, yes. And it's very cool if we're talking about the same thing. As for generating fractals, no, not really. There is one effect that does somehting similar. But, for fractals, I use Ultra Fractal to make my own to load into the thing, in addition to snagging some off the net. Real time fractal generation with that tool would kind of be a bad idea anyways since, if you did something fairly advanced, it would spike the CPU.

Snag the demo and give it a whirl. It's "trial ware." Fully functional the first 30 days.

http://www.arkaos.net

[dirty_bass]

yeah, I`ll give it a go

but what I`m looking for is nice 3d reactive stuff much like Milkdrop and R4 team make for Winamp

[tocsin]

yeah, I`ll give it a go

but what I`m looking for is nice 3d reactive stuff much like Milkdrop and R4 team make for Winamp

You mean reactive to the audio or reactive to what elements are on the screen? You can set your medias speed, and various effects, to be controlled by BPM of an incoming audio signal if that is what you are talking about. You also have various 3D effects that play off of what you already have going on the screen.

[dirty_bass]

You mean reactive to the audio or reactive to what elements are on the screen? You can set your medias speed, and various effects, to be controlled by BPM of an incoming audio signal if that is what you are talking about. You also have various 3D effects that play off of what you already have going on the screen.
I`m talking about morphing visuals based on algorythms that respond to sound or midi input.
Most VJ effects bore me to tears, as they are just layers of film footage with cliche effects

I was just rerading some VJ forums and it appears that arkaos isn`t appropriate at all for what I want. Although it appears that you can Vj with milkdrop!!!!

[clubsynthetic]

I think a guitar could work with techno...just because it has rarely been done good before (much) doesn't mean its nots going to happen..

But for visual aspect, i think these guys have it right on the money ;)

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j164/youngseth/cocoonclub_ibiza_1.jpg

[tocsin]

I`m talking about morphing visuals based on algorythms that respond to sound or midi input.
Most VJ effects bore me to tears, as they are just layers of film footage with cliche effects

Yes, you can do that.



I was just rerading some VJ forums and it appears that arkaos isn`t appropriate at all for what I want. Although it appears that you can Vj with milkdrop!!!!

You can sort of VJ with Milkdrop. More of a guessing game though, unless you fully understand the consequences of the formulas you're inputting on the fly.

[clubsynthetic]

as for that sort of thing your chatting about dirty bass, would you not need a NASA computer to run it?

[dirty_bass]

as for that sort of thing your chatting about dirty bass, would you not need a NASA computer to run it?
not at all, just had a good read about running milkdrop in VJ mode.
Just need a good graphics card.
Looks tastey

As for guitars in techno, if you understand production you`ll understand why it is so difficult for it to work.

Guitars take up a HUGE amount of room in the mix.
Listen to how drums and guitars are mixed in rock and nu metal
The drums have very little low end punch, the kicks very rarely thump, the middle areas are all left sparse to allow room for the guitar.
all areas techno uses in it`s own sound for strong percussion.

It is very very diffcult to get it to work, trust me.
I fought with it for years in the 90`s in the various industrial bands I was in, it`s a fecking nightmare.

[Kokotorobot]

not at all, just had a good read about running milkdrop in VJ mode.
Just need a good graphics card.
Looks tastey

just get some rackmount PC on there, a camera, graphics card, maybe some other sensors and hire/persuade someone who knows his shit about max msp jitter and you can have your extreme cutting edge music synced visuals right there

http://cycling74.com/

btw, does any of you guys know whether there is some midi controller which has potentiometres which return to original position (such as the pitch bend wheel)? or how to mod/change knobs so they act like it

[acidsaturation]

For me, doing a Live PA is similar to conducting an orchestra - you have a range of different instruments at your command. Much of it has to be pre-prepared. Many of the notes have to be at least pattern sequenced, and unless you're Tim Exile all of your samples will be pre-recorded. Your job is to marshal all of this stuff together into something that's at least listenable. You can make this as easy or as difficult as you like - but make it too easy and it's incredibly boring for both you and the crowd.


Kind of how I've always described it.

[RDR]

I`m talking about morphing visuals based on algorythms that respond to sound or midi input.
Most VJ effects bore me to tears, as they are just layers of film footage with cliche effects

I was just rerading some VJ forums and it appears that arkaos isn`t appropriate at all for what I want. Although it appears that you can Vj with milkdrop!!!!

Vjing is loads of fun, even with loops, it depends what you do with them as well how you use the effects inside them, arkaos is a horrid program, resolume i love to bits as well, on the fly resampling is cool. Having cameras set up around the club provides interactivity as well. VJing and getting people involved really gives another dimension to the club. I'd prefer loop stuff to no visuals as well.

[TechMouse]

This (http://www.processing.org/) is something I'm looking at, slowly, as I find time.

Hopefully DVNT will pop up at some point, as he knows loads about this kind of thing.

Oh, and he knows the guy that wrote Milkdrop too.

[RDR]

This (http://www.processing.org/) is something I'm looking at, slowly, as I find time.

Hopefully DVNT will pop up at some point, as he knows loads about this kind of thing.

Oh, and he knows the guy that wrote Milkdrop too.

Nice... it'll probably be an epic fail for me... but ill give it a go, a programmer i am most certainly NOT :lol:

[TechMouse]

Tis better to fail than not to try at all, young RDR.

[tocsin]

Vjing is loads of fun, even with loops, it depends what you do with them as well how you use the effects inside them, arkaos is a horrid program, resolume i love to bits as well, on the fly resampling is cool. Having cameras set up around the club provides interactivity as well. VJing and getting people involved really gives another dimension to the club. I'd prefer loop stuff to no visuals as well.

I've never noticed enough of a difference between Arkaos or Resolume that really makes one better than the other. Only thing that pissed me off about Arkaos was when the event recorder would choke. Don't know if that ever got fixed but don't really care either since I record all my Arkaos events in Sonar. BTW, it is possible to get Milkdrop running in either Arkaos or Resolume with a little driver trickery, so long as your CPU and GPU can handle it.

[acidsaturation]

As for guitars in techno, if you understand production you`ll understand why it is so difficult for it to work.

Guitars take up a HUGE amount of room in the mix.
Listen to how drums and guitars are mixed in rock and nu metal
The drums have very little low end punch, the kicks very rarely thump, the middle areas are all left sparse to allow room for the guitar.
all areas techno uses in it`s own sound for strong percussion.

It is very very diffcult to get it to work, trust me.
I fought with it for years in the 90`s in the various industrial bands I was in, it`s a fecking nightmare.

That's certainly true if you are trying to make guitars sound like a rock guitar. But when it works I think it can sound pretty fun and to be fair, I've always thought techno (for me at least) is about being inventive and using an interesting palate of sounds, which a guitar can be part of. Certainly when I've used guitar samples in my sets people seem to like it.

[judas_beast]

I use Ableton, running 18 channels, being Kick, Snare, Hi Hat, Bass 1, Bass 2, Synth etc. Basically when I've made my track in Cubase I record short (16 usually bars) loops of each ''instrument'' for each part of the song as well as running some parts live from the various VST's. On each channel I have various effects, as well as effects on the master out from Ableton. I control the lot with a KorgMicrokontrol. I think this allows me to do pretty much anything, but also gives me some definite form to my live set, so if I am (to be frank) ****ed I can still pull it off.

Next up I want a Korg Zero 8.

Anyway, here's a screen dump should anyone be interested.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1955/abletongr3.jpg

[detfella]

*farts*

[judas_beast]

*farts*

What the **** have you been eating mate? Jesus, smells like something crawled up ya ass, shat it's self then died a horrible, smelly death.

[RDR]

I've never noticed enough of a difference between Arkaos or Resolume that really makes one better than the other. Only thing that pissed me off about Arkaos was when the event recorder would choke. Don't know if that ever got fixed but don't really care either since I record all my Arkaos events in Sonar. BTW, it is possible to get Milkdrop running in either Arkaos or Resolume with a little driver trickery, so long as your CPU and GPU can handle it.

Its the on the fly stuff that really sets resolume apart from arkaos... and stability...

shame there's no resolume on the mac though :( Take your point about CPU and GPU... these programs are seriously intensive.

ill check out milkdrop though ;)

[tocsin]

Its the on the fly stuff that really sets resolume apart from arkaos... and stability...


I never noticed the difference for on the fly stuff. In a performance, I always have the full screen going out to a separate monitor, so I'm free to edit and setup whatever on my main screen with nobody knowing the better. Stability has been an issue here and there, but not generally during playback. More with the event recorder for me than anything else. But, the work around was simple enough. I just record all the events in Sonar, save as a midi file, import into event recorder and then render. No probs. With Resolume, I had some serious choke issues when trying to play back Divx/mpeg4 files. I used to use the Jpeg Motion codec for my videos before, where the quality was great but the file sizes were huge. Switched to Indeo after that where the quality was subpar to JPEG, and the filesizes were still huge. Once Arkaos was able to handle Divx, it made life easier. I get the best quality picture with the smallest filesizes. They end up looking just as good as JPEG and better than Indeo, while coming out to about a 3rd of the filesize. The only issue with it is that it's a bit more CPU intensive than JPEG or Indeo. But, now that I have a dualcore laptop, it hasn't resulted in any spikes.

As for Milkdrop, it really is pointless to use standalone for a "VJ" purpose, or even a creative visual one. The machine does pretty much all of the work for you. You can tweak it by adding an image and changing up the math formula on the fly. But, for the most part it's a guessing game by the human where the machine is pretty much in control. It could run fine throughout an entire night with absolutely no human interaction. It also looks great which is why so many VJs hate it. ;)

However, with some trickery, you can pull it into VJ software an add a really cool layer. If you find a better way then my system, let me know, as I'd like to find a possible way that isn't quite as CPU intensive and involves a program to program direct pipeline (like with a virtual display driver or something). At the moment, I use a program called Camtasia Studio to pull Milkdrop into Arkaos (and the same method should work for Resolume). There's a feature in the program where you can set a live "capture" area on your desktop. I simply move the Milkdrop window into that capture area. Then, you can pull the input from the capture area into Arkaos or Resolume by using the virtual "Web Camera" that the software creates. I've had it running at a 30FPS capture with no issues as of yet. But, given all that's going on in my machine, I come pretty close to spiking the CPU. It happens every now and then, but only for a fraction of a second.

[davethedrummer]

i'm gonna do a liveset with just a sinclair spectrum and a collection of silly hats

[RDR]

i'm gonna do a liveset with just a sinclair spectrum and a collection of silly hats

Im gonna do a liveset with dave the drummer being forced to operate a small collection of electronic circuit bent push-a-long childrens toys.


and a 303.

[TechMouse]

i'm gonna do a liveset with just a sinclair spectrum and a collection of silly hats
Hate to burst your bubble, but I think Neil Landstrumm beat you to it.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4779/a15011181168293683up0.jpg