roland mc-909 ???

[mister badtouch]

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts/opinions/experience on the 'roland mc-909' groovebox?

I think I'm about to spend my cash on one, but juist wanted an opinion from someone who's used one before..

thanks

[Ak01]

Once you get used to the way you sequence and perform on the Groovebox series it gets REALLY fun.

However, the soundset sucks and the sample time, from what I recall, is limited. I'd rather work with something that had NO internal preset samples, and TONS of room for my own stuff.

Your money is better spent on Ableton Live and a triggerfinger IMHO

[massplanck]

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts/opinions/experience on the 'roland mc-909' groovebox?

I think I'm about to spend my cash on one, but juist wanted an opinion from someone who's used one before..

thanks

Its great fun. But the sounds are lacking somewhat. If you are going to get a groove box (which I recommend over abelton & trigger finger anyday!) get yourself a Yamaha RS7000.

Remember dont listen to the software bullies!

[xes]

I'm interested in this too. What's the best all round machine for making music on. (must have a 303 on it)

Around 500 quid? (maybe more,depends)

[acidsaturation]

I don't reckon you'll find an all round box with a 303 on it...

[massplanck]

I'm interested in this too. What's the best all round machine for making music on. (must have a 303 on it)



Would you like a guitar on it too?

[mister badtouch]

Would you like a guitar on it too?

LOL

I think the mc-909 dos have DIGITAL 303 samples on it, but it's obviously not the real thing. It might still sound ok though if I use it with my nice and cheap 'freebass fb383' which is still analogue....

I'm also thinking about getting the 'supreme dance' expansion wav rom from 'roland'... any thoughts on this?

[acidsaturation]

I use the freebass... not quite an exact 303, but nice enough and got it's own character to it...

[massplanck]

I'm also thinking about getting the 'supreme dance' expansion wav rom from 'roland'... any thoughts on this?

Dude. check out the RS7000 if you can.

Only way I used to get a good sound out of the 909 was to run it through a Boss distortion pedal. :)

[xes]

Would you like a guitar on it too?

not essensial,but I could hock it :)

how about something like this.
http://www.dv247.com/invt/18596/
a korg ESX1

[acidsaturation]

not essensial,but I could hock it :)

how about something like this.
http://www.dv247.com/invt/18596/
a korg ESX1


I've got the older version of those. Nice and fun to use, though can get a bit fiddly if you want to create any of your own riffs, 'cos you need to set up a sample and then use the pitch shift on a motion sequence to play it.

The sound (particularly on this version) is lovely though.

Also unless they've changed it, you can't set a pattern so that some of the parts are muted when you first move to it, so if you wanted to run a loop and then bring in hats/snare etc blah blah, you need to set up each version on a separate pattern.

And the memory's quite small.

I'd find it hard to use this as an all in one, unless your music is quite minimal.

Problem is, most all in one boxes that are easy to use have less good sounds.

My solution would be look for an old second hand groove box (I use an RM1x which is a super powerful sequencer if you lean how to use it, but got by with an MC303 for years!) sod the internal sounds and get a cheap synth (a-station/microkorg etc) and a drum modules (second hand drum-station if you can find one, or one of the electribe drum machines). Use the sequencer on the box to play the synths.

Guess you'll need a mixer, but I reckon you could search out that lot for about £500. Though it's not all in one.

[massplanck]

not essensial,but I could hock it :)

how about something like this.
http://www.dv247.com/invt/18596/
a korg ESX1

Classic Machine. So much fun to use and a wicked sound.

[RDR]

Software bullies?

the guy's just trying to save him money and time.

Ive used an MC909, and seen em used in tandem in a live set... fun pieces of kit.

the Rs7000 isnt a bad piece of kit but you might be better adding a sampler to it, the onboard one isnt that good.

[stjohn]

Classic Machine. So much fun to use and a wicked sound.


i have one... and do use it half as much as i should!! :confused: and im tempted to sell it on!

machinedrum is sually my first option when i go for drums, and theres a bit of midi lag on the esx.

[stjohn]

if he's a software bully... you're the hardware Mafia, massplanck

[mister badtouch]

Dude. check out the RS7000 if you can.

Only way I used to get a good sound out of the 909 was to run it through a Boss distortion pedal. :)

WOW.....I am impressed

The mastering effect section look really impressive.

I had my heart pretty much set on the mc-909 'cus of the gimmicky d-beams and the usb transfer, but I may have to seriously consider getting myself one of these. It's probably gonna depend on ebay more than anything else, ie which one is cheapest and most easily available to UK.

Thanks for that mate, you've given me a bit more to think about...

[dirty_bass]

RS7000 is typical yamaha

Shite sequencing, terrible sounds, limited sampling.

A nice lappy, good controller, and audio realism bassline pro for the 303, and ableton.

Most groove boxes are just PC`s anyway, but with horrible soundsets and terrible limited sequencing interfaces

I played live for years with grooveboxes and all sorts of midi gear.

poo to it, you want instant, easy control with ulimited scope for converting your ideas into reality.

[stjohn]

RS7000 is typical yamaha

Shite sequencing, terrible sounds, limited sampling.


:biggrin:the hardware mafioso wont liek that

[massplanck]

RS7000 is typical yamaha

Shite sequencing, terrible sounds, limited sampling.

.

lol i remember about 2 years ago sending you a clip of something i made and you were pretty shocked when i told you the sound came from the rs7000.

[massplanck]

AS for shite sequencing? lol I thought that was down to the person writing the tune? Limited sampling? Its not a sampler.

Get over yourself. Some people like dedicated boxes for jamming & having fun rather than waiting for 10 mins for something to boot up and another 5 to set shit up and another 10 to assign knobs and. Nevermind the fact that alot of people stare at a monitor all day at work.. for them to go home and stare at a montor for the rest of the evening. Like I said software nazis.

[massplanck]

:biggrin:the hardware mafioso wont liek that

Rory how shite & limited did my Rs7000 sound to you?

[stjohn]

Totally shit ..:lol:


joking, it was great crack...and sounded crazy from what i remember

but then ... i am a hardware fan:roflmao:

[dirty_bass]

AS for shite sequencing? lol I thought that was down to the person writing the tune? Limited sampling? Its not a sampler.

Get over yourself. Some people like dedicated boxes for jamming & having fun rather than waiting for 10 mins for something to boot up and another 5 to set shit up and another 10 to assign knobs and. Nevermind the fact that alot of people stare at a monitor all day at work.. for them to go home and stare at a montor for the rest of the evening. Like I said software nazis.

Not at all, I`ve probably used more hardware than you`ve ever seen.
I`m just realistic about what you can achieve for the best price and ease of use.

Yamaha are shit at sequencing. Always have been, always will be.

If anything I`d recommend the korg groove boxes, as they are much easier to use, and have less of the typical yamaha dumbfoolery and lack of logic.

However if you are feeling like being nostalgic, just get a stick and a hollow log, who needs technology to make techno, I mean, the word techno actually means "use of oldest possible machinery" in latin.

[RDR]

AS for shite sequencing? lol I thought that was down to the person writing the tune? Limited sampling? Its not a sampler.

Get over yourself. Some people like dedicated boxes for jamming & having fun rather than waiting for 10 mins for something to boot up and another 5 to set shit up and another 10 to assign knobs and. Nevermind the fact that alot of people stare at a monitor all day at work.. for them to go home and stare at a montor for the rest of the evening. Like I said software nazis.

The RS7000 can sample cant it, or is that the internal bounce down, oh it can use a hard disk SCSI with samples on it as well...

The mastering section is awful, and yes planky, i used one live and ive owned an RM1x... Actually i kinda liked sequencing on it, i think steve's being a touch unfair there.

So... i get a choice, stare at a 200x100 display... OR stare at a 1024x800 display. And my machines boots in 38seconds thanks. My eyesight aint what it used to be sadly.

Its about expectation and the ability to do things i could never do with hardware... i love synths, my fav is my Mono/Poly... but the boundaries DO blur, i have the Korg Legacy Digital Edtion.. its copies of what were digital synths anyway, its mint i have a wavestation and an M1 to play with. Better than original copies of digital synths.

COOOL!

[AcidTrash]

I thought the 909 was shit. Felt like a fisher price toy.

[RDR]

I thought the 909 was shit. Felt like a fisher price toy.

The build quality isnt brilliant, like most modern roland stuff, but then the built quality of the earlier stuff went downhill after they made that TR303 someone has for sale here...

you stop using wood on your synths and this take a turn for the worst :lol:

[mister badtouch]

"ahh, sigh" I'm so bloody confused now! I still really want an mc-909, but it is very expensive (as is the electribes), and from what you guys are telling me it ain't all that good.....

I do own a copy of ableton live, as well as an old ensoniq groovebox and a clone 303 and a couple of other studio bits, but what I really want is a powerful groovebox which is the centre of my live set. I'd like to ****-oof the laptop and have all my midi kit sequenced direct from the groovebox (or sampled, and stored on the groovebox)...

I know that there are a thousand advantages to using a laptop, but I just don't like them. . . I don't like the way that my mind concentrates on the computer screen, when it should be concentrating on the music. I also don't like using a mouse/touchpad and I don't like having to piss about with latency and various audio drivers.... I'm sure that my computer will still be heavily used for cleaning up loops, recording and writing complicated sequences, however I do plan on going fully hardware. . . . Ambitious I know........but I much prefer the sound of real synthesisers as opposed to the sound of soft-synths..

[mister badtouch]

Yea, basicaly 'sod it', , , I reckon it's gotta be the mc-909, with a sound expansion board, and possibly a juno 106 (or similar) for some contrasting analogue sounds. . . That could work

cheers for all yer help guys, , I'm off to ebay.............;-)

[acidsaturation]

ive owned an RM1x... Actually i kinda liked sequencing on it, i think steve's being a touch unfair there.


I agree to be fair. Yeh the RM1x and its kin are never gonna be as simple to use as a big screen sequencing program, but it's actually a pretty powerful sequncer when you get the hang of it. And it does the trick for what I want it to do.

[judas_beast]

I would recommend an RM1X if you must use a Groovebox type thing. Although I'd far rather run a lap top and a decent controller!

/2 pence

[AcidTrash]

Yea, basicaly 'sod it', , , I reckon it's gotta be the mc-909, with a sound expansion board, and possibly a juno 106 (or similar) for some contrasting analogue sounds. . . That could work

cheers for all yer help guys, , I'm off to ebay.............;-)

Go for the electribe. If I was going to throw money away, it would be on that.

[AcidTrash]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Roland-MC-909-Groovebox-Sampler-Drum-Machine-MC909-NR_W0QQitemZ280197459054QQihZ018QQcategoryZ58721QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[AcidTrash]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Roland-MC-909-Sampling-Groovebox-No-Reserve_W0QQitemZ130196714054QQihZ003QQcategoryZ58 721QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[massplanck]

However if you are feeling like being nostalgic, just get a stick and a hollow log, who needs technology to make techno, I mean, the word techno actually means "use of oldest possible machinery" in latin.

Lol you really are completley up your own arse mate with comments like that.

The guy has a laptop & abelton already & obviously he hasnt got 40000 grand to spend on a machinedrum. He likes the idea of having DEDICATED groovebox to play with. I have had both a 909 and RS7000 (unlike you.. ie you prob played with them for 30 mins and took your usuall judgemental stance and dismissed them as rubbish). The RS7000 is brilliant live - really ****ing great, its what it does best. OK The sounds are not up to the standard of the access virus or whatever but they are better than the 909 thats for sure. And of course the fact that you asked me "what the hell made that sound" when i played you a clip of a track I made with the RS7000 totally blows that argument out of the water. It a powerful machine and in the right hands can obviously convince people like you (who have obviously used more hardware than I have even seen ) that they are listening to something NOT made by yamaha.

Anyway for me the RS is another piece of the puzzle. I like mixing the sounds of different pieces of manufacturers hardware together (virus, rs7000 & korg electribe) as well as samples from a pc (pc through the mixer). I hate the idea of every single sound starting its life off in the same DAW that the whole unvirse uses. How discordian of you to advise him to get "abelton & a controller" like 99% of people do. Radical.

And a message to the origional poster.
Think for yourself dude. You'll sound more unique for it.

[Aratron]

Not at all, I`ve probably used more hardware than you`ve ever seen.
I`m just realistic about what you can achieve for the best price and ease of use.

Yamaha are shit at sequencing. Always have been, always will be.

If anything I`d recommend the korg groove boxes, as they are much easier to use, and have less of the typical yamaha dumbfoolery and lack of logic.

However if you are feeling like being nostalgic, just get a stick and a hollow log, who needs technology to make techno, I mean, the word techno actually means "use of oldest possible machinery" in latin.

wise words there mate. i had a yamaha rmx1 and i thought it was pretty poor.

[Aratron]

Lol you really are completley up your own arse mate with comments like that.


Troll

[AcidTrash]

i had a yamaha rmx1 and i thought it was pretty poor.

As far as groove boxes its acid component isn't bad. bit of an arse to get right and the filter sucked. Drums a bit too spacey too.

[Aratron]

As far as groove boxes its acid component isn't bad. bit of an arse to get right and the filter sucked. Drums a bit too spacey too.

tbh i didnt have a clue how to use it

[RDR]

tbh i didnt have a clue how to use it

What you on about then ;)

PS - duly noted calvin.

[RDR]

Lol you really are completley up your own arse mate with comments like that.

The guy has a laptop & abelton already & obviously he hasnt got 40000 grand to spend on a machinedrum. He likes the idea of having DEDICATED groovebox to play with. I have had both a 909 and RS7000 (unlike you.. ie you prob played with them for 30 mins and took your usuall judgemental stance and dismissed them as rubbish). The RS7000 is brilliant live - really ****ing great, its what it does best. OK The sounds are not up to the standard of the access virus or whatever but they are better than the 909 thats for sure. And of course the fact that you asked me "what the hell made that sound" when i played you a clip of a track I made with the RS7000 totally blows that argument out of the water. It a powerful machine and in the right hands can obviously convince people like you (who have obviously used more hardware than I have even seen ) that they are listening to something NOT made by yamaha.

Anyway for me the RS is another piece of the puzzle. I like mixing the sounds of different pieces of manufacturers hardware together (virus, rs7000 & korg electribe) as well as samples from a pc (pc through the mixer). I hate the idea of every single sound starting its life off in the same DAW that the whole unvirse uses. How discordian of you to advise him to get "abelton & a controller" like 99% of people do. Radical.

And a message to the origional poster.
Think for yourself dude. You'll sound more unique for it.

Please refrain from personal attacks. This is not what this part of the forum is for, take it to PMs if you feel like this. Your comments are welcome and constructive 99% of the time. adding personal insult to what is otherwise a good post just makes people not take you seriously.

Peace and love people, peace and love.

[Aratron]

What you on about then ;)

PS - duly noted calvin.

wow thanks dude.

too me any synth would be useless. i had a rmx1 for 2 years and i knew how to turn it on that was about it.

though it was fun for a mess around.

i have seen a few midi keyboards recently that i ve been thinking of buying.

tbh i want a some active monitors.

idea for a new thread.

[acidsaturation]

Almost don't want to continue if it's getting so heated, but will do, carefully lol

I do agree with what massplanck is saying to some an extent - it's funny, I've not been about for a few months and it does suddenly seem like the universe has gone software crazy, and there's this overwhelming sense of "if you don't use Ableton you don't make good tunes"...

which doesn't really help people who want to do their own thing.

What happened to making a nice sound and having fun with what you like using. This upsets me sometimes, I enjoy may hardware, and would rather spend money on that than the same piece of software everyone else uses. It's almost like if you can't afford this that and the other (or don't want to) you can't be in this elite club. Techno was always like punk for me, underground and inclusive and about people using what resources they had to put on a show, now it seems to have gone like big business and if you can't make a perfect production product whatever other good things in your tunes don't matter.

And to be fair, if the sequencer on something is "shit" but someone can turn out a good end product with it, then that shows they have talent and skill in my mind... If they choose to do it the fiddly way, good on them!

[AcidTrash]

Yeah but Chris, you can only get so far with audio kit you find in skips. ;)

[acidsaturation]

Jealousy. Pure and Simple. :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

[massplanck]

Yeah. Sorry for adhoming you DB.

My main gripe comes from this standard "use abelton & a controller" reply that gets carted out when someone is interested in a bit of hardware or making music. Thats the most conformist answer you could give someone. Funnily enough some (if not all) of the best techno was made before abelton was even a glint in the eye of whoever.

I fully understand you arent going to create everything on one groovebox, but for the most important thing for a newcomer to making techno is not to get bogged down in the billions of VSTs and plugins and other such 'advice' on forums. I think getting hands on straight away is paramount ,then you can decide if its for you. Thats where people are going to be FORCED to twiddle knobs, ADSR, pitch & come up with some of their own sounds the very day they their box. Some of the best techno was born out of the limitations that people had with their equipment.

Like c'mon. We all know what abelton can do but how long would it take a newcomer to set stuff up & figure out how to map (the right) controllers and just jam?. I cant even get abelton doing what I want after years of using it!

[massplanck]

Also. Its funny how people say "it doesnt matter what you use" then say "use abelton" when hardware gets mentioned... just because they couldnt figure out the RM1X or whatever!

dismissing hardware = dismissing a lot of amazing techno music that was made with it, limitations & all.

[acidsaturation]

dismissing hardware = dismissing a lot of amazing techno music that was made with it, limitations & all.

:clap:

[tocsin]

Also. Its funny how people say "it doesnt matter what you use" then say "use abelton" when hardware gets mentioned... just because they couldnt figure out the RM1X or whatever!

dismissing hardware = dismissing a lot of amazing techno music that was made with it, limitations & all.

I think it's fair to lean towards software when giving "advice" nowadays based on affordability and range. Fact is, you can't pirate hardware and you're limited in what can be done with it. To expand your sound with hardware setups tends to require buying more hardware. Doesn't have to be a knock on hardware though.

Personally, I've done hybrid deals probably more than anything else, often involving an MC-303. The sequencer on it is basic and easy to use. None of the knobs send MIDI data though so it's REALLY limited in how basic it is. For the MC-909, I've messed with one and, in my opinion, it isn't worth the cash.

If the goal is to be able to do anything, owning a "techno in a box" tool isn't necesarilly a bad idea. Even the MC-303 has some decent sounds when run through some distortion. But, it is basically a glorified sampler at that point. I've used it's sequencer to trigger internal sounds run through a wah and distortion pedal, while also using it to trigger/sequence VSTi/DXis. I think one could probably find something just as useful as an MC-909 in that regards, but also cheaper.

For the record, software nazis are just as bad as hardware nazis, who used to drive me up a wall back in 1997. What I find kind of amusing is a solid majority of people who were hardware nazis back then are software nazis now. Fact is, if one has only toyed with something, or never done more than hear someone talk about it, one shouldn't give advice on it. They're doing nobody any service with that and become rather transparent to those of us who have used various pieces.

[TechMouse]

and there's this overwhelming sense of "if you don't use Ableton you don't make good tunes"...
I don't feel that at all.

There are a few people who will swear blind that hardware is the only way to go, for sure. I'm not sure I've heard any software evangelists, certainly not in the sense that they would suggest you can't do anything decent with hardware.

The plain demonstrable truth of the matter is that there are people doing great stuff with hardware and people doing great stuff with software.

The choice is largely an individual one, and different people will be more at home with different configurations.

As a rough rule of thumb (and this is just my opinion) hardware tends to give you better results "out of the box" at the expense of flexibility. Software gives you complete flexibility, but the trade off is that you have to work harder to get great sounds.

[tocsin]

As a rough rule of thumb (and this is just my opinion) hardware tends to give you better results "out of the box" at the expense of flexibility. Software gives you complete flexibility, but the trade off is that you have to work harder to get great sounds.

Yep. It's a learning curve issue on one hand, and a financial issue on another. There's not a chance in hell that I'd be able to buy a new piece of gear right now. I just don't have that kind of disposable income anymroe at the moment. However, it seems like every week, there is some new piece of cheap, and often free, software to experiment with. Personally, I think it's worth exploring more than hardware, as the software is constantly evolving, and is easilly replacable. When you buy a piece of hardware, what you see is what you get. Though, if you're in a position where you can afford to do both, that is by far the most fun option, and the most beneficial.

[massplanck]

I don't feel that at all.

There are a few people who will swear blind that hardware is the only way to go, for sure. I'm not sure I've heard any software evangelists, certainly not in the sense that they would suggest you can't do anything decent with hardware.
.

Well I certainly dont jump onto VST plugin threads and suggest that people should go out and buy an Access virus because VST plugins are shit. You have a thread here where some guy with a limited budget wants to buy a piece of hardware, and gets told to just use abelton & a controller. Then you have people who "have used more hardware than I have seen" saying this is shit & that is shit when in fact they dont actually own the aformentioned piece of kit (and actually liked the sounds from it).

If someone wants to spend money on hardware. Encourage them dont discourage them. If someone want to use a wholly software setup the same goes. But please let them experiment.

[TechMouse]

Well I certainly dont jump onto VST plugin threads and suggest that people should go out and buy an Access virus because VST plugins are shit.
Never said you did, but I've definitely heard more people espouse a "hardware or nothing" attitude than a "software or nothing".


You have a thread here where some guy with a limited budget wants to buy a piece of hardware, and gets told to just use abelton & a controller.
Limited budget is the point though.

Your bang:buck ratio with a cheap laptop & controller pisses on anything you will get with a hardware sequencer.

I don't doubt for a second that if you have the cash to buy a drum machine, sampler, synth and mixer then you can do mad stuff with hardware - and I've seen it done on many occasions by all (http://www.discogs.com/artist/Neil+Landstrumm) sorts (http://www.discogs.com/artist/Esther+Ofei) of people (http://www.discogs.com/artist/Subhead).

But compare that with bog standard laptop & cheap controller pound for pound - especially if you have a laptop already as many people do.

Buying all that specialist hardware is a spectacularly expensive way to find out that it's not your thing after all.


Then you have people who "have used more hardware than I have seen" saying this is shit & that is shit when in fact they dont actually own the aformentioned piece of kit (and actually liked the sounds from it).
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

In my experience the Roland Grooveboxes are pretty poor unless you want to make generic trance. (And who doesn't? :D)

You can get good sounds out of anything if you try hard enough, but you need something decent to be the backbone of your system. Something like an RS7K will do the job, but you'll be needing more hardware on top.


If someone wants to spend money on hardware. Encourage them dont discourage them. If someone want to use a wholly software setup the same goes. But please let them experiment.
Absolutely agree, but I still believe that for someone making their first forays into electronic music the computer route is the sensible entry point. Just my opinion of course.

[massplanck]

You can get good sounds out of anything if you try hard enough, but you need something decent to be the backbone of your system. Something like an RS7K will do the job, but you'll be needing more hardware on top.
.

Now is probably the time to be buying second hand hardware as lots of people are flogging off their old kit as they move over to software. I just got an Access Virus for 500 euro (370 sterling) (never ****ing used as the guy didnt like the sounds on it!).
I dunno. I know there is a cost issue. But there is alot to be said for saving up for something by eating beans for a year. Hardship usually end up meaning better music :)

[massplanck]

I actually swapped 100 records I didnt want for a korg electribe & I got a yamaha desk second hand (barely used) for 220 euro.
There is a yamaha RS7000 for sale on ebay right now for a "buy it now" price of 420 euros.

So for example lets say I had bought that RS today my nice little hardware setup of RS7000, 16 Channel Yamaha Desk, Electribe & Access Virus would have cost me 1140 euros & 100 records I dont like anymore. Hardly extortionate esp if you saved for a couple of years, Its well doable.

That RS7000 cost me 1600 quid in 2003!

[RDR]

Now is probably the time to be buying second hand hardware as lots of people are flogging off their old kit as they move over to software. I just got an Access Virus for 500 euro (370 sterling) (never ****ing used as the guy didnt like the sounds on it!).
I dunno. I know there is a cost issue. But there is alot to be said for saving up for something by eating beans for a year. Hardship usually end up meaning better music :)

Not sure about beans man... for a YEAR!... oh thats harcore ;)

But a superb point about the much cheapness of hardware.

PS - A Virus TI does beat loads of software synths its true..! amazing synth.. sadly VERY expensive though.

@Pete... those speakers were bang on ;) as IQ - he tested em.

[RDR]

Also. Its funny how people say "it doesnt matter what you use" then say "use abelton" when hardware gets mentioned... just because they couldnt figure out the RM1X or whatever!

dismissing hardware = dismissing a lot of amazing techno music that was made with it, limitations & all.

Hope you dont mean me, i owned 2 RM1x's and an RS7000 we used in our live set.

I liked em both but needed to do things the RM1x and Rs just werent capable of.

[massplanck]

I liked em both but needed to do things the RM1x and Rs just werent capable of.

I agree. The RS is not great for sequencing full songs the way I want to.. (i'll admit that db).. and tbh you need to have something running along side it like a virus or electribe to bypass that whole "techno in a box" sound. But NOTHING beats it for being instantly creative & fast to work with & I CAN get amazing sounds out of it. Its so horrible for me to program beats and record myself going nuts in abelton. HORRIBLE! To advise someone to try out software first could completly turn a person who is half decent at making music into a nervous wreck and vice versa.

So in future, If someone wants to buy a piece of hardware please let them go full steam ahead.

[massplanck]

oh. I wasnt pointing the finger at you chris just making a generalization!

apologies!

[SlavikSvensk]

who cares how someone makes music as long as it's good? there are many ways to skin a cat, so to speak...

...though hopefully one's music doesn't resemble the sound of a cat-skinning...i can only imagine :wot:

[tocsin]

who cares how someone makes music as long as it's good? there are many ways to skin a cat, so to speak...

...though hopefully one's music doesn't resemble the sound of a cat-skinning...i can only imagine :wot:

Believe it or not, some of mine comes close. ;)

Either way, back on topic, I would suggest against the MC-909. I had the MC-303 which was a lot more basic. The MC-909 is definitely nicer and an improvement from that but, from playing with it for a bit when a friend brought one over to my place one time, there's enough on it that just feels kind of gimmicky. I'm not sure anyone would learn an MC-909 any faster than a piece of software. But, that's not my point anyways. I'd recomend dropping the cash on a different sequencer/"techno in a box" instrument. There are ones out there that are a bit more stripped down in a beneficial way, both in features and price. Unfotunately, having not bought such a tool in over a decade, and being more of a software person at this point, I can't honestly recoment something in its place.

[acidsaturation]

I don't feel that at all.

There are a few people who will swear blind that hardware is the only way to go, for sure. I'm not sure I've heard any software evangelists, certainly not in the sense that they would suggest you can't do anything decent with hardware.


OK maybe I'm being a little harsh, but I do hear a certain amount of insistence that laptops and software are the only way, and there is a bit of "I don't like it therefore it's shite" at times from both sides of the debate...

That's what makes me sad...

[eyeswithoutaface]

your all insane

my studio consists of an old adidas shoe box, 4 different strength elastic bands and a fairy liquid bottle full of pearl barley, and, well, you've heard my records.

total techno

[dirty_bass]

Ableton is that popular for a reason.
It is a truly amazing piece of kit.
And it`s not conformist to use it in any way.
That`s like saying Pollock was comformist because he used paint???

Ableton is a huge almost infinitely sized blank canvass awaiting you to throw paint at it.
Hardware in comparison these days is like an 8x4 canvass.
If you want more room, you need another 8x4 canvass, and pretty soon you`ve run out of wall space, and you can`t reach the higher canvasses to get any paint on them anyway.


I struggled with groovboxes for ages, always compromising.
Admittedly, having limits when you are beginning to make music is helpful, because you don`t get lost.
I moved to ableton because I realised I could do just anything, and it would sound as good as I wanted it to sound
AND
I can take it to gigs.
My equipment fits into the overhead locker on a plane.
Unless you are jeff mills, no promoter is going to pay the massive extra cost of a huge flight case full of tons of midi gear sitting in the hold.


As for the debate of staring at the screen all the time?
Well surely that`s the problem of whoever is using the laptop?
Set up your controllers so you don`t have to look at the screen
Then you can look at the controllers.
Turn off your screen maybe?

I`m not saying that hardware is crap.
I am saying that most grooveboxes are crap. They tend to be toyish as they are pretty much designed for low end use (mostly).

But the best plan is to just try stuff out and work out what you want for yourself.

For me priority of what I want is simple.

Sound Quality
Ease of use
Rapid work rate
Wide scope for exporation
Good price.

Waying up all the odds when I decided to get back fully into live performance the only option that scored highly on all the above options was ableton.

I`ve done countless gigs since, my PA`s get better and better, and I`m still learning new tricks with it and have yet to hit any boundaries apart from what I can physically manage to do myself, live.

I can`t recommend it more.