what is loop techno...?

[professor]

i've seen a couple of references to "loop techno". i'm a little confused about what this is actually.

techno is based on bunches of loops, as is all music for that matter

...melody...chorus....melody...chorus...and so on.

[dan the acid man]

alot of techno sounds like its just loops on the face of it, but if you listen carefully you can usually hear synth lines e.t.c that arent loops as they are constantly having there filters tweaked, also you can probably hear little changes in percussion, extra hits, different notes, extra fx and so on, if im wrong somebody please correct me as im from a london techno background which isnt loops.

[professor]

right.

I understand that Modulation is a key to keeping any sounds interesting...but often the synth line repeats itself, even if it is being modulated. Maybe every 2bars, maybe every 4bars, etc.

Also, even if the drums/percussion change subtly within a track do they change so much that they never repeat themselves?

I hear ya on the dj tool tip. Some techno is just the first 4bars over and over and over. But I still think all music is based on loops, except maybe pure improv.

[observer]

See your point professor, even though basically all techno and other genres of music are looping segments of the song, in this case it most likely means that the artist is using more or less readymade beatloops that builds up a sound that hasn´t got that much melody or synthhooks to it.

[The Overfiend]

funny everybody talks in this section called "looptechno"
but when i called it biting people get quiet.

[professor]

biting other peoples grooves is un-called-for. JUST MAKE YOUR OWN SHIT! YOU GOT THE TOOLS, JUST DO IT.

Oh and don't hate because I said it.

(Iknowthisisadeadsubject,justhadtogetitout)
cheers!

[duncandisorderly]

surely loop based techno can be made with your own loops??? and saying that you shouldnt sample someone elses stuff is silly too as they got their samples and beats from a machine that you could have bought too. dance music has been sample based for years and does not mean that its a bad thing. the trick lies in changing it sufficiently so that it becomes your own work anyway.

[Ritzi Lee]

here in holland (i don't know if this is the case anywhere else) some so called techno purists use 'looptechno' as cursing...

i totally do not agree.
when james brown introduced the funk, all drum elements and instruments where used as repeating patterns....

later when the first dance tracks where born, all elements where sequenced as loops. so the whole dance and techno is based on looping. ok we know how to tweak and modulate and filter and so on... this keeps the sound driving and interesting.... it's based on the art of playing with effects rather than with melodies... techno producers anr't musicians!!! they are beat creators. :lol:

[jonnyspeed]

I've only heard this term used in a derogatory manner to say that the techno has been put together with little to no talent because all it is is one or two repeated loops that just plod never building up and never actually going anywhere. In my honest opinion, Glenn Wilson is very guity of boring plod plod yawn "loop techno", whilst Jeff Amadeus is not because of stronger phases and more dynamic basslines.

[crime]

techno producers anr't musicians!!! they are beat creators. :lol:

??????

[DROID]

according to pure plastic site...ben sims is the loop techno king :twisted:

[dcdn]

i think Ben Sims is kinda loop techno?!
well that's my personal opinion

[Ritzi Lee]

techno producers anr't musicians!!! they are beat creators. :lol:

??????

is that so hard to understand??

[Sunil]

techno producers anr't musicians!!! they are beat creators. :lol:

??????

is that so hard to understand??

Actually I don't agree either, saying that techno producers are not musicians is far to sweeping a statement to be able to make, it just ain't true..

[Ritzi Lee]

Actually I don't agree either, saying that techno producers are not musicians is far to sweeping a statement to be able to make, it just ain't true..


Ok now we have an interesting discussion. :)

In what way you can show me that a techno producer is a musician??

[The Overfiend]

Justin Berkovi

[Sunil]

Actually I don't agree either, saying that techno producers are not musicians is far to sweeping a statement to be able to make, it just ain't true..


Ok now we have an interesting discussion. :)

In what way you can show me that a techno producer is a musician??

Quite simply actually. By definition a 'musician' is somebody who composes music.

[Sunil]

[quote="Ritzi Lee"][quote=Sunil]
By definition a 'musician' is somebody who composes music.

well, someone who is skilled at composing music anyway, this is of course a subjective matter!

[jonnyspeed]

Actually I don't agree either, saying that techno producers are not musicians is far to sweeping a statement to be able to make, it just ain't true..


Ok now we have an interesting discussion. :)

In what way you can show me that a techno producer is a musician??

Easy. Both Guy McAffer and Henry were in a band before going banging 'aving it acid techno. Guy played the keyboards and Henry the drums. Both are musicians and techno producers. Take it up with Henry if you want to.

I can not see how you can be good at writing techno if you are not a musician. Without an understanding of percussion, harmonics, timing, etc. its just going to sound like somebody is playing with Reason/Fruity/Logic/Cubase etc. Beleave me, I wish I had a musical background - its a whole language on its own, that if you can speak it you can put alot of smiles on people faces.

The difference between a musician and a non-musician is that a musician can get what he hears in his head into a sequencer - a non-musician generally only uses trial-and-error to get something that sounds good by experimenting and it never sounds like what you thought it would.

Peace.

[Tony]

some people are saying ALL music is made from loops, poppycock!! you have to be careful when making such sweeping statements.
and to say techno producers arent musicians. thats a touchy one. you'd have to know the individual artist to know if he had any musical training, but is that all that being a msucian depends on?? i dont think it is.

[dan the acid man]

i can play guitar and i could read music although i've forgotten how to now, so this classes me as a musician ( i think ). It definetly is helping me in my productions as i already know about how many beats in a bar etc and what notes are in tune and which notes are'nt.

[jonnyspeed]

some people are saying ALL music is made from loops, poppycock!! you have to be careful when making such sweeping statements.
and to say techno producers arent musicians. thats a touchy one. you'd have to know the individual artist to know if he had any musical training, but is that all that being a msucian depends on?? i dont think it is.

agree. it ain't training but ability to be er... create music. oxford dictionary anybody?

[Ritzi Lee]

some people are saying ALL music is made from loops, poppycock!! you have to be careful when making such sweeping statements.
and to say techno producers arent musicians. thats a touchy one. you'd have to know the individual artist to know if he had any musical training, but is that all that being a msucian depends on?? i dont think it is.


well i think you really have 2 define for yourself.
what's a loop??




mathematically: a loop is something you can map to a circle.
because the circle is infinitly continues, so is the loop.

[Ritzi Lee]

and for me musicians are people who play live instruments.
not pre-programmed. but really live...

[tekku7181]

glenn wilson is loop techno at its best imo

[dB]

and for me musicians are people who play live instruments.
not pre-programmed. but really live... :dontevengothere:

mmm, what about live P.A's? i know u may find it hard to believe but some people do actually play LIVE :roll:

[serox]

hmmm...som1 has described it correct i think (cant rem name now 2nd or 3rd post i think)

i thought loop techno was when you make the loop u want to go thru your track. it doesnt change ur build up just keeps going.

glenn wilson is a good example. isnt a good thing or a bad thing, alot of techno is made this way for a few reasons.

makes it simple to mix, fits together well with other looped tracks. also is quick to make, some people use the same loop over n over making small changes to it.

thats what i think anyway? pls correct me

[tekku7181]

glenn wilson live was great the one time i saw him at a party in bklyn

[serox]

yeh i heard hes hot live but snot at mixing. :roll:

[davethedrummer]

did anyone hear about the famous "5 minutes of silence " symphony by john cage, a man who has always said he made a living from his shortcomings as a musician.

well the idea wasn't just that the orchestra never played a note
it was the fact that when the conducter tapped his baton he got everyones attention
and they listened intently to their surroundings.
something they probably had never done in an auditorum before.

the experience becomes musical even though what you are listening to wouldn't normally be classed as music , just background "noise"
and this is the key to it all for me.

a musician is simply someone who can draw your attention to their sound
and make you realise it as music and not noise.

you don't need classical training or years of experience
just a good idea and the determination to make it happen.

that's the way i look at it anyways.

[TechnoWhore]

I agree with DtD's point...musician = peron(s) talented in the art of music (from the OED)

As for loop techno, IMHO, loop techno is for perons with a computer and loads of sample CDs :lol: :lol: :lol:

No attempt to program synths, write patterns etc...

Either way, when you are ****ed and high on lodsa chemies :clap: :clap:

you don't think "this is loop" this is MIDI"..just whether this is banging or not


ciao

[crime]

In what way you can show me that a techno producer is a musician??

Personally I've been bashing away on drums and guitars for years before I started writing techno, I'd always considered myself a musician of sorts, it amazes me that someone could think in this way.. So is techno not music then? What about all the old detroit stuff, rave music, whatever? this all has melody, and therefore is music (isn't it? forgive me if I'm wrong..) Believe it or not, there's techno being produced right now that has melody..

My personal definition of loop techno is listening to a record that sounds exactly the same wherever you put the needle on it, I hear so many records like this, completely structureless (To my ears anyway, maybe I just don't get it) which I find quite boring...

... I'm still really amazed... techno not music????

[tekku7181]

[quote=Ritzi Lee]In what way you can show me that a techno producer is a musician??

My personal definition of loop techno is listening to a record that sounds exactly the same wherever you put the needle on it, I hear so many records like this, completely structureless (To my ears anyway, maybe I just don't get it) which I find quite boring...

quote]

it can sound xacly the same or w/a slight variance,,like an xtra/diff hi hat or kick or vocal sample,,,its not structureless but has a more consitent structure throughout and the changes r more subtle and imo more appreciated than the typical track w/a predictable build up, the breakdown, the kick comes back and evryone is happy type track,,,,,a lot of these tracks r very short or at least they should be mixed in and out relatively quickly and this is where the structure(more typical defintion of...) comes in,,,its more on the dj to create a structure from the diff loopy tracks through good programming and tight xciting mixing,,,,a very understandable strory can be told like this although it may not be as obvious..i think

[DJZeMig_L]

I think maybe there is a little confution between minimal and loop...

Minimal can be quite repetitive but if it's really quality it will somehow keep u hooked 2 the point that seems like there is a different evolving something 2 it.

Crime is refering to the more Loop, meaning, some1 nabbed a loop, threw in some hats and let it run... do a few cuts, filter,.. and presto u got 3 new eps a month!! Still truth isn't black or white.. I know some Loop stuff that really rock and they r really simple, but the way the little twists and quirks were donne i makes then bonce!!!

Z

[bornaa]

did anyone hear about the famous "5 minutes of silence " symphony by john cage, a man who has always said he made a living from his shortcomings as a musician.

well the idea wasn't just that the orchestra never played a note
it was the fact that when the conducter tapped his baton he got everyones attention
and they listened intently to their surroundings.
something they probably had never done in an auditorum before.

the experience becomes musical even though what you are listening to wouldn't normally be classed as music , just background "noise"
and this is the key to it all for me.

a musician is simply someone who can draw your attention to their sound
and make you realise it as music and not noise.

you don't need classical training or years of experience
just a good idea and the determination to make it happen.

that's the way i look at it anyways.

woah dood great post. musicians for me would be defined as people who want to control,shape & direct sound somwhere, play many shaped or non shaped sounds together and in most cases trying to achieve their harmony(altho this last one hasnt much to do with a definition of a musician in my opinion). i would even say, as dave put it nicely, that a musician would be a person who would just direct you and make you percieve plain everyday sounds, it doesnt even have to be their sound. not to even play it or compose it, just to draw your atention to a sound or create a soroundings where, like cage, he actualy used his public as his instrument. i would say if you intentionaly influence/shape/direct sound, your a musician.... everyone is a musician, just dont realise it yet ... every sound is music if you can percieve it that way....its just a unshaped untained sound you might hear next time you go down to the record store to buy some vinyls ;)

[jonnyspeed]

[quote="crime"]

My personal definition of loop techno is listening to a record that sounds exactly the same wherever you put the needle on it...

quote]

...completely agree. My old mum says all my music is like that - all you can hear is the same boom boom boom, I'm glad I ain't your neighbours... :lol:

...and no mum, that is not perfectly loud enough

[crime]

it can sound xacly the same or w/a slight variance,,like an xtra/diff hi hat or kick or vocal sample,,,its not structureless but has a more consitent structure throughout and the changes r more subtle and imo more appreciated than the typical track w/a predictable build up, the breakdown, the kick comes back and evryone is happy type track,,,,,a lot of these tracks r very short or at least they should be mixed in and out relatively quickly and this is where the structure(more typical defintion of...) comes in,,,its more on the dj to create a structure from the diff loopy tracks through good programming and tight xciting mixing,,,,a very understandable strory can be told like this although it may not be as obvious..i think

It got overdone though... I remember a time when it was almost impossible to buy records like this (back in '94/'95) and the only people really doing this kind of stuff were The Advent and the old "Reload" label from belgium, and so it sounded really fresh... when you have 50+ labels putting out 10 records a year of this kind of stuff, anything really good gets lost in the fodder, and sadly, this is what happened, the sound got done to death, this is why I grew tired of it personally... I've never heard anything as good as Dynamic Structures III on Reload or the Advent's number 8 on Internal (I think? the one with "Retreat" on) since... also when these records came out, you never used to hear whole sets of them, they were cool in the mix with other stuff, it's when certain djs seemed to put there blinkers on and play whole sets of this kind of stuff, really killed it for me...

[crime]

the typical track w/a predictable build up, the breakdown, the kick comes back and evryone is happy type track

I prefer some crazy break on the 7th bar, half a beat late when everything falls to pieces, dropping into 5/8 time, unleashing the demon modular synth sound from hell, totally unpredictable stuff, but it's all horses for courses I s'pose

[serox]

yeh ofte hera ppl trying to be smart n droping or changing things not on a 4

i find it annoying when playin a record n they try to change things half way...


got a really nice new german record, but it gets slightly faster thru the record making it nearly impossible to leave it mixing for longer than 8 bars or somthing

[crime]

yeh ofte hera ppl trying to be smart n droping or changing things not on a 4

i find it annoying when playin a record n they try to change things half way...

surely once you heard the record a few times, you know where the change is, and work around it... This is what gets me about a lot of people who play "Loop techno" and just seamlessly mix one record into the next, switching the (Supposed) B-Line (Let's be honest here, it's not a real B-line, it's an offbeat bass stab, nothing more) with the bass e.q, with each record sounding like minor variation on the last.... This is what completely switched me off a lot of this stuff.. sorry, rant over, but this is my personal angle on it, I completely respect peoples right to their own taste, but I do feel that it has turned a lot of people off of techno, after only hearing this kind of stuff, not liking it because they thought all techno sounded like this... ;)

[serox]

yeh each to there own. i like to see somone mixing without tocuhing EQ's and finding it hard to hear records coming in and out. that is easier to do with loop techno, and des sound good if ppl do it right :)

long smooth mixes without the EQ's . the record u r bring in you want to try keep the same sound going thru it. maybe its a hat or kick or somthing small in the bakground that u keep going. i love doing a set with just glenn wilson records, often he uses the same sound in differant tunes/records. so u can mix them well together n keep the same sounds going thru it.

the records are 4/4 so you want to keep them both on the same bar if possible. anything else, will just sound shit, u wont have sounds changin starting / stopping at the right place. only when u do this it will sound right.

this is the way i was shown to mix anyway, anything else will sound shit i think. can always hear ppl just playing records over each other, in time. but the wrong place. which only shows up if they are doing long mixes...

here is a example of what i mean. constructed mixing, things are stoppng and startin at the right place together. only possible cos the records keep the same loop/pattern.

is only a 20min mix, take the time and check it u will see what i mean. im shit at explainin things :)

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~ser/my%20musik/mp3/serox_i_kill_you_all_mix.wma

[Tony]

i can think of one person that you all know who is exactly a definition of loop techno
USER
loop techno can really be off putting to people as it does sound pretty much the same the whole way through..........ooh, a high hat!....etc, but give that to some scratch up, double copy psychopath, of which i am edging towards, and then it makes a shit load more sense!!

[serox]

leave scratching to hip hop. with techno sounds nearly as bad as spin backs lol

[Patrick]

i can think of one person that you all know who is exactly a definition of loop techno
USER


Yeah, but who is User ? :lol:

[Patrick]

Actually, just had a re-read and this thread is funny as !
Unless my eyes are deceiving me, it looks like we've got some DJs who play out regularly almost every weekend (sometimes to crowds of thousands), some people who run their own labels and also some people with long years and a vast wealth of experience in the scene (in distribution etc.), and some very talented, long-standing producers being told how and what mixing is, being told what music is or what loops are by some of the bedroom boys.

The world is flipped on it's head today. :scratch:

[Sunil]

i can think of one person that you all know who is exactly a definition of loop techno
USER
loop techno can really be off putting to people as it does sound pretty much the same the whole way through..........ooh, a high hat!....etc, but give that to some scratch up, double copy psychopath, of which i am edging towards, and then it makes a shit load more sense!!

I'm a big User fan, there's a great energy in that stuff. Whatever people think of his style (It does get slated occasionally), I definitely still think there's a place for it..

[Sunil]

Actually, just had a re-read and this thread is funny as !
Unless my eyes are deceiving me, it looks like we've got some DJs who play out regularly almost every weekend (sometimes to crowds of thousands), some people who run their own labels and also some people with long years and a vast wealth of experience in the scene (in distribution etc.), and some very talented, long-standing producers being told how and what mixing is, being told what music is or what loops are by some of the bedroom boys.

The world is flipped on it's head today. :scratch:

hmmm, you're being more than a little condescending here man. People are entitled to their opinion, it's up to the next guy to agree or disagree if he wants to, not to question the validity or importance of the 'bedroom boys' opinion.

[davethedrummer]

It got overdone though... I remember a time when it was almost impossible to buy records like this (back in '94/'95) and the only people really doing this kind of stuff were The Advent and the old "Reload" label from belgium, and so it sounded really fresh... when you have 50+ labels putting out 10 records a year of this kind of stuff, anything really good gets lost in the fodder, and sadly, this is what happened, the sound got done to death, this is why I grew tired of it personally... I've never heard anything as good as Dynamic Structures III on Reload or the Advent's number 8 on Internal (I think? the one with "Retreat" on) since... also when these records came out, you never used to hear whole sets of them, they were cool in the mix with other stuff, it's when certain djs seemed to put there blinkers on and play whole sets of this kind of stuff, really killed it for me...

**** man you are so right there!
the lack of looped techno forced you to mix it up a bit
now there's so much of it you play it endlessly for ten years and you'd still have a few tracks left.
looped techno needs something else to go with it to break it up a bit.

[Patrick]

Actually, just had a re-read and this thread is funny as !
Unless my eyes are deceiving me, it looks like we've got some DJs who play out regularly almost every weekend (sometimes to crowds of thousands), some people who run their own labels and also some people with long years and a vast wealth of experience in the scene (in distribution etc.), and some very talented, long-standing producers being told how and what mixing is, being told what music is or what loops are by some of the bedroom boys.

The world is flipped on it's head today. :scratch:

hmmm, you're being more than a little condescending here man. People are entitled to their opinion, it's up to the next guy to agree or disagree if he wants to, not to question the validity or importance of the 'bedroom boys' opinion.

No, I'm not at all.
Sunil, man, I think you're being a little loose in your interpretation of my post. I'm not questioning the 'validity or importance' of the bedroom boys (but obviously feel free to point out where in my post I said that, cos I can't see it ;) ). Still looks to me like a fair assessment of what has actually occurred in this thread. But I suppose I was more questioning whether the people they are telling need to be told. That's all. I'm sure damn near everyone started out as bedroom boys, so it's an incredibly important, and indeed essential, resource/entry point/development path or whatever.

That said, I will happily admit that I do get arsed off reading post after post after post (and not just on this forum , but on most techno related forums that I visit) by DJs who have just recently got into techno who still have a very undeveloped, narrow view of what the genre is or can be, but are still happy to spout off from their postion of ignorance what their version of "the rules" is. The "what is techno" argument, as we both know, has been running for years and years and I don't think any two people have every entirely agreed on one definition. But one word that will come up time and time again is innovation. As you well know, the whole thing started because a couple of kids in Belleville ignored the rules and did what they wanted and not what they were 'supposed' to. So there's no way, this far down the line, I'm going to accept that the music "should be" or "has to be" like this or that, or that it has to fit into any structure or conform to any one persons idea of what it is.

The point I probably should have developed more fully if I could have been arsed to type a full post last night is, that, yes, a part of techno probably is what some of the people are describing it as, but what they are describing is only a tiny part of the whole. But the way it continually gets expressed as if that small part is all of it is what gets on my nerves.

See, when I started getting into this music I was really keen to hear loads of the genre and to learn more from people who had been into it longer. Still am. I certainly wouldn't have been cocky enough to go on forums (if we'd had them back in the day on our steam powered computers) and start telling established artists or DJs what's what. Obviously, if people don't question and challenge the established order there won't be any change or development of the music and the scene will stagnate (and reading this and many other threads, there is a fair argument to say it already has). But I still do find it weird, and just a touch ironic, when many of the challenges I see are coming in the form of a call to conformity, uniformity and general blandness and some of these old badgers are the ones saying that things need to be broken up a bit and fu.cked around with.

You will notice that I am very carefully sticking to generalisations (nor am I only referring to points made in this thread, but there have been a few similiar ones recently on BA and a few other forums (InOut springs to mind etc.))and deliberately not picking up on any specific individuals points. I think that would be unfair and I would then be doing what you are accusing me of i.e. condascending to people. Attacking somebody for being new and not knowing a lot is shit.

The fact that people are new to a scene isn't a bad thing. The fact that people have strong opinions isn't a bad thing. The fact that people have a passion for the music isn't a bad thing. But the fact that they aren't prepared to open their minds and their ears and take a little bit of advice and a few tips and pointers from others definitely is a very bad thing.

And having read many of your posts on here and getting a flavour of your tastes and opinions from them, I really don't reckon I'm saying a lot there that you would disagree with. Unless of course you really are being hormonal and are looking for a fight, in which case I'll see you behind the (cyber)bike sheds. ;) :lol:

[Patrick]

Shit, sorry for that long and rambling post and the slight thread hi-jack. It's just in this forum I notice that if there's any ambiguity in a post and it can be read as a negative statement, when it was probably meant as a neutral or even positive statement, then somebody will always jump on it and assume you meant the worst, so I was covering all the bases. (not having a go at you, Sunil). But people should ease off on the hair-trigger keyboard action a bit. No wonder it's a nigthmare for Mark to try and moderate.

Anyway, back on track, these are what loops are :

http://www.sugardrops.co.uk/catalog/images/pic000199.jpg

See, they look like they are all different colours and flavours, but when you really get your teeth into them you start to notice they're pretty much all the same. And then after a bit you fancy a change, like a nice packet of Space Dust or something. (see what I'm doing there ? D'ya see ? Geddit ? It's an analogy innit :roll: :doh: )

[Tony]

yes, I KNOW EVERYTHING ME, NO BEDROOM BOY IS GONNA TELL ME NUTHIN!! shoot me if i ever sound like that.

does everyone really not know who user is???????????????????
i am shocked!!!!!!!!

[Patrick]

does everyone really not know who user is???????????????????
i am shocked!!!!!!!!

No, shocked, I really don't, not for definite anyways ;) .
So out with it then, who is it ?

[tekku7181]

LOL---hey Patrick,,,,i checked that site u have and i was wondering what dj/producer you are??

trying to get an idea of your sound but only 1 dj has 1 audio link to a mix and that doesnt work?? :eh:

how bout some links??

[tekku7181]

and i know everyone knows who user is 4 sure

[Patrick]

LOL---hey Patrick,,,,i checked that site u have and i was wondering what dj/producer you are??

trying to get an idea of your sound but only 1 dj has 1 audio link to a mix and that doesnt work?? :eh:

how bout some links??

Yeah, our site is really out of date at the mo. I should point out that as we are a collective, it's not just representative of 'my' sound but is kind of an average of the stuff that all our crew likes (which ranges from house, breaks right through to hard techno. Although looking at the site, it seems to be more weighted in favour of hard techno at the minute). I've just signed up with a new provider and will be moving it soon so hopefully we'll have a few mixes on there in a while.

The Chris Gawtry link is there because he was a guest at one of our nights. The guest slots weren't always necessarily the kind of stuff that I personally was hugely into, but other members of our collective and certainly a lot of the people who paid to come through the door were really into that sound, and we tried to balance one month of something they would be into and then the next month of something we were really into, that maybe they wouldn't have been exposed to down here.

I don't produce any more, and never for anything more than my own amusement and pleasure when I did, and I'm a shit DJ, but I know what I like :lol: - which is anything from Detroit through to Wonk, and also lots of IDM. Trying to think of some people who really excited me in the last year or so to give an idea of my tastes - Surgeon definitely, working that Ableton Live to maximum effect, and all the BMB stuff has been great. That new Grovskopa mix floats my boat. That Makaton live set that was linked on here by the Electric City people a while back was wicked. Jeff Mills blew me away a couple of times last year, a real return to form. Likewise Robert Hood. Shaun Rudiman live was awesome. Mark Hawkins did the biz. Love anything in that Monolake, Scion, Basic Channel sort of area. Max Duley also. Of the less established jocks, Jerome Hill, Morph and Ryan Blackman have impressed. Plaid stunned me. And Aphex Twin of course, much electronic headfu.ck shenanigans. There's so much more, but I've rambled too much already, and that should give you an idea of my flava.

That's kind of what I try to incorporate in a set, anything from any of those areas. I'm not much bothered with playing all the 'latest' either, so I could end up playing early Detroit tracks that are 15 years old. If it feels right for the moment, it's in. Nice idea, usually let down by my crap mixing :roll: :oops: :lol:

Hope that answers your question.

Christ ! Another really long post. Is it obvious I'm laying off the herb at the moment ? :roll: :lol:

[tekku7181]

[quote="Sunil"][quote=Patrick]
As you well know, the whole thing started because a couple of kids in Belleville ignored the rules and did what they wanted and not what they were 'supposed' to.


i think detroit had something to do with the beginning of techno...

ur(and im not abbreviating you are)

[Patrick]

[quote=Sunil][quote=Patrick]
As you well know, the whole thing started because a couple of kids in Belleville ignored the rules and did what they wanted and not what they were 'supposed' to.


i think detroit had something to do with the beginning of techno...

ur(and im not abbreviating you are)

Dude, Belleville is a suburb of Detroit.

[tekku7181]

[quote=Sunil][quote=Patrick]
As you well know, the whole thing started because a couple of kids in Belleville ignored the rules and did what they wanted and not what they were 'supposed' to.


i think detroit had something to do with the beginning of techno...

ur(and im not abbreviating you are)

Dude, Belleville is a suburb of Detroit.

oh sorry,,,i didnt know that

[Sunil]

Jesus, I don't know how to address the points in your big post Patrick as there's so many and I'm feeling kind of lazy! But yeah, I see what you are saying… It was a case for me to say something or not say and I said it, I just thought that what you said would do more to discourage people from posting than anything else, as I know from other boards I've been on that some people stop posting if they feel they are not been taken seriously or are spoken down to. That isn’t what you meant though and apologies for diving straight in, I shouldn’t have.

Anyway what you said was only a small part of a bigger point which you have made and I'm inclined to agree with you on a lot of it. Regarding attitudes etc. I do find some of the.. hmmm...'newer' people to techno very one track in what they will accept or listen to; for me 'techno' is far too much of a buzz word being used by all in sundry these days, many of whom just equate techno with the banging stuff and nothing else. There’s a whole new breed of people getting into it and that’s great, but some need to open their minds a little. There are others I meet however who know they are new to it and want to gain knowledge, find their sound, producers etc. I think this is great, I much prefer people who i can chat to about it rather than some guy who thinks if it's not like the last record he's heard then it's crap, the guy who sticks with the producers he's heard of and no-one else, or the records he was told were good.. that's boring.

Anyway, gonna leave this thread for a while, don't wanna get in too deep!

[Patrick]

When I just told my mum who User was, she was very surprised. She didn't know that before.

[anx]

can someone tell me who user is cause i am one of the few ignoramuses that dont know haha

[dan the acid man]

a musician in my eyes is someone that makes music, pretty simple really

[Patrick]

can someone tell me who user is cause i am one of the few ignoramuses that dont know haha

link (http://www.discogs.com/artist/User) and link (http://www.discogs.com/artist/Dean_Cole)

I'm sure there are some peeps on here with more info who can clarify and verify.

[Tony]

leave scratching to hip hop. with techno sounds nearly as bad as spin backs lol

you've obviously never heard it done well. to be honest i keep it to a minimum, maybe a have a few double copy records with me in my bag. but i have seen it overdone: ben long replaced dave clarke at the jam, he beat juggled, or should i say used the pioneer to beat juggle, for his whole set. it was a dancefloor of blank faces who couldnt tell what he was doing and where left with nothing to dance to. shame really.

[Sunil]

can someone tell me who user is cause i am one of the few ignoramuses that dont know haha

link (http://www.discogs.com/artist/User) and link (http://www.discogs.com/artist/Dean_Cole)

I'm sure there are some peeps on here with more info who can clarify and verify.

Well I had it clarified to me earlier that it's neither Richard Harvey or Dean Cole. Richard Harvey is a person but not User, Dean Cole did some live sets under the User alias but is not actually User either? The plot thickens!! It's defo one of the Birmingham boys anyway. That Dead or Alive "You Spin me" bootleg by Burns is also produced by User I reckon. Tony, who the **** is it??

[Sunil]

Tony, who the **** is it??

No need to tell actually, I wouldn't want you to break your code of honour :)

[jake]

i always heard it was dean cole or richard harvey but someone recently said it was function too and now im really confused :cool:

[Patrick]

Tony, who the **** is it??

No need to tell actually, I wouldn't want you to break your code of honour :)

Exactly. Tony's life would be forfeit if he spoke out. Worse than the mafia, these brummie techno lot. :lol:

[Ritzi Lee]

And this topic turned around to be interesting afterall :D


Ofcourse i think techno is music!!! duhhh
Someone mentioned Detroit techno. Well most of the Detroti DJ / producers played in funk & industrial bands Like Blake Baxter and good old Jeff Mills himself. I don't know if anybody knew about Jeff having a long break after his 'The Wizzard' hiphop project.

Final Cut was his next project, a period he casually refers to as his "industrial days". A 3-piece band, they released just one record, 'Deep Into The Cut', in 1989 on Detroit's Full Effect Records. Most Mills fans today are entirely unaware of the group's existence. At that time in Detroit industrial was really big, and the two formats of music became mixed in certain situations, and Final Cut was actually one of them. There was one album and then they worked with Al Jourgensen [Ministry /Revolting Cocks]. Jeff's studio was very new, he had just built a brand new studio but when they made the album he was learning how to work with the studio.

Check out the 'Deep Into The Cut' record nowadays and it's hard not to arrive at the conclusion that in many ways Final Cut acted as a prototype for Underground Resistance, the seminal group/label founded by 'Mad' Mike Banks and Mills, and also including Robert The Vision' Hood. The sleeve, for example, is peppered with the same kind of militant slogans and statements of intent that appeared on many a UR release: declarations like 'Punishment to Fit the Crime', 'We give you the power to open any darkness' and, perhaps most telling of all, The future of dance music' cannot help but bring to mind UR's calls-to-arms like 'Revolution for change' and 'Hard music from a hard city'. Also present are apocalyptic graphics of Nazis and a skull-faced Statue of Liberty, themselves reminiscent of the burning cityblocks portrayed on, for example, UR's biopic 1992 compilation LP, 'Revolution For Change'.

Both these records' sleeves carry longer pieces of text and you don't need a degree in English literature to see the similarities:

OPEN YOUR EYES and see a world in which we live. THE PROSECUTED go without cause, listless and complacent, and as their hate goes into a frenzy, they stand, echoing chants of BURN BABY BURN are heard. So in the underground we search to find, THE ESCAPE. When we speak of the prosecuted we mean those who are constantly subjected to senseless pain in everyday life. NOW THAT'S FUNKY will move you in a way we could only express in lyricless thoughts, it's for those of you that seek the alternative HARMONY. So as you listen deep into the cut, you'll say to yourself "I TOLD YOU NOT TO STOP", and you'll journey on to find, the CELESTIAL UNDERGROUND. - Final Cut: Deep Into The Cut

By using the untapped energy potential of sound we are going to destroy this wall much the same as certain frequencies shatter glass. Techno is a music based in experimentation; H is sacred to no one race; it has no definitive sound. It is music for the future of the Human Race. Without this music there will be no peace, no love, no vision. By simply communicating through sound, Techno has brought together people of all different nationalities together under one roof to enjoy themselves, isn't it obvious that music and dance are the keys to the universe? So called primitive animals and tribal humans have known this for thousands of years! We urge all brothers and sisters of the underground to create and transmit their tones and frequencies no matter how so called primitive their equipment may be. Transmit these tones and wreck [sic] havoc on the programmers! Long live the Underground...

- Underground Resistance: Revolution For Change

[Ritzi Lee]

yes, I KNOW EVERYTHING ME, NO BEDROOM BOY IS GONNA TELL ME NUTHIN!! shoot me if i ever sound like that.

does everyone really not know who user is???????????????????
i am shocked!!!!!!!!


User was an Integrale label.
What happened with it?

[Ritzi Lee]

One more remark:

in the past, and nowadays still hapening, a lot of distributions telling people "this music is to experimental". I think this is just a lame excuse to say they are not interested in listening the real techno. :roll:

[Tony]

User was an Integrale label.
What happened with it?

erm, i've got a load of them. i think harveys got a load. any1 wants them, 3euro each (about £2.00 after conversion) and double pax for 5

spamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamsp am

[ampassasinbirmingham]

User was an Integrale label.
What happened with it?

erm, i've got a load of them. i think harveys got a load. any1 wants them, 3euro each (about £2.00 after conversion) and double pax for 5

spamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamsp am

whats the shnizzle drizzle on the Utility Plastics Tony mc Frizzle?
(any uP for sale my old chap?)

[Tony]

thanks for the translation.

yep, tonnes of utility platics, zet, sheer, sheep, framework, you name it!!

[Ritzi Lee]

thanks for the translation.

yep, tonnes of utility platics, zet, sheer, sheep, framework, you name it!!

you got a catalogue list or something from your stock?

[Tony]

pm me an email address