state of London underground

[the_psychologist]

Hi

Just wondering if anyone involved 1st hand can tell me a bit about what's happening over there.

Are the oldschool Acid Techno guys still making music? Is the squat/underground scene sill going strong? What sort of music is being played at the parties? Is anyone stepping up to take over the ambassador duties so Chris Liberator can kick back in the barco and get some rest?

It seems like there's more political fuel than ever for the scene, but you really don't hear anything in the USA about what's happening on your side.

[rhythmtech]

Are the oldschool Acid Techno guys still making music?
yes, although their output is a little subdued at the moment after distro problems


Is the squat/underground scene sill going strong? What sort of music is being played at the parties?
by all accounts yes it is. still a complete mixture of styles, from d'n'b to straight up acid



Is anyone stepping up to take over the ambassador duties so Chris Liberator can kick back in the barco and get some rest?

NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[the_psychologist]

what about vinyl? are people using CD decks now, or is vinyl rooted too strongly in the spirit of the scene?

i'm wondering when the boys will go digital only to allow them greater output. it must be a bitter pill to swallow.

[rhythmtech]

henry has just gone digital only with 2mutate to survive" and spoke about going digi only with apex on his blog.!

but yeah, vinyl is still a big part of the scene.. even if sales are a little slower these days.

[force]

Well, i'm off to Brixton on saturday to see DDR, Pounding Grooves and Bas Mooy....

I'll let ya know how it went....

[Si the Sigh]

IMO, the music has gone downhill BIG TIME, and everything the acid scene stood for seems lost. The scene needs to get back to it's roots. New artists like A.P and Paul Cortex have the right idea. Lawrie Immersion's seriously missed, and DDR needs shaking to set him back on track! :) Still a top bunch of blokes @ SUF, but I feel that the scene is at it's lowest at the moment. To be honest, I think the London acid techno scene had it's peak a long time ago when the message was political and the music was fu*ked up, far out and avin'it, compaired to the watered down, mid life crisis hard dance tag on releases nowadays. Still think software ruined the music. Viva la hardware! Anyway, just my opinion...

[fatcollective]

To be honest I think acid is still out there, maybe not as pure as the old days but its still going! I suppose after many years of acid techno music, times have turned and the djs have kinda rolled with them times....for instance look at the London acid djs of today....Chris, Henry, Aaron, Ant, DDR, Geezer etc...these guys tend to play other styles of music other than just 100% acid and I think this is because the new generation of ravers want to hear newer music...funky, hard, European, schranz even.... if djing is your life and earns you a living like most of the original London acid crew...then you must roll with the times and play this new music to the newer audiences!

I don’t think Chris, Henry, DDR etc are replaceable, these guys made a new underground music culture...the time was right, the music was fresh, new and exciting....it was av’in it.!!! No doubt the squat parties are at large in London and all over the place really…that will never end for sure, for some its a way of life!

another point is …I think a huge part of the acid techno generation have grown older too, me for instance…I was at any acid techno party I could get myself too…these days I just cant do it (well I can but it fvcks me up for days) and although I love the music and support it as much as possible…I just haven’t get the same energy as I used to and im sure this applies to many others…the acid techno era is fading, but its not over yet!! VIVA LA ACID!!

[Athar]

sometimes i gettin depressed when i see whats happen with all these things i used to love in past years:

mp3 won with vinyl
ableton won with real live act
software tools won with hardware

the people called it "progress" and the producers have no choice than just 'mutate to survive' and its all happening with undeground london sound i quess

the real question is: if we made a progress with the sound and subculture where is the old atmosphere from the past ?
have we sacrificed it ?

i dont know to be honest but acid techno will be alive till the passion will be with us, with the sound we all love together.
amen

[Si the Sigh]

I've said it a million times, I want the old sound back, not this limp hard dance tie in sound. So yea, I think the sounds been sacrificed.

Check this record out, all three tracks, and then tell me that acid techno in 2008 is still good:

http://www.discogs.com/release/227697

[d3v]

Fell out of the scene for a while and was a bit disappointed to come back and find acid techno still in decline. Why is this - just down to a reluctance with digital? Would it make a difference it SUF ouput to digi and would you buy it?

I can’t believe a new gen of kids hasn’t got hold of this by now, it’s overdue, must write more acid........

[APC]

Less kids are growing up giving a **** about music, in all genres. Music used to be better when I was younger: that is actually true! Think about the passion people used to put into music in the past. Compare that with now, there are very few artists and performers who do it for the music, everyone just wants to get on the bus any way they can.

Changing attitudes even on Radio 1 has led to piss poor music as they dictate what is good. There is no underground music knocked out anymore. John Peel dying was one important factor. The drum and bass show becoming purely Flabio and Grooveshitter meant that everyone thought that they were the be-all and end-all of drum+bass, in the past, One In The Jungle had different DJ's and MC's every week; sometimes live from a club somewhere. And it was earlier in the evening so people would get amped on it before going out. Running live too, none of this record it on Wednesday and broadcast on Saturday morning at 2am. Audience involvement;;;;; call in for a shoutout, let me know where you're partying tonight etc. Now the best you can hope for is a night of club anthems follewed by Westwood or some shite like that. I know Radio1 is for mass appeal, but broadcasting 24/7 should mean that harder stuff should get a look in every so often.

Also, as mentioned, noone really gives a toss about politics either. They are all content with their lives and grumble through it, never standing up for themselves and making some sort of protest. Music used to be a form of protest but it's all I love her and she loves me she's so lovely will you ever remember me and shit like that.

Bottom line is noone has a passion in anything they do anymore and can't be bothered to make a stand for anything as they believe in nothing but convienience, moaning and telly.

Hope that makes sense.

[the_psychologist]

Bottom line is noone has a passion in anything they do anymore and can't be bothered to make a stand for anything as they believe in nothing but convienience, moaning and telly.

Hope that makes sense.

I was about to write something re: apathy and how it has really taken hold during Bush's regime. It's almost like the more he and his cabinet have pissed on the world, the more people have become numb to it. I just don't get a sense of rebellion any longer, at least in the sense of taking actual action.

I think people are too distracted now by games, tele, etc. and their idea of protest is to moan on the Web. I felt that Acid Techno used to be about striking a blow to the status quo, which was reflected in the whole of it, not just some low-res samples that say "**** Bush" or whatever.

Now, that's not to diss the Lodon dons. They spent years trying to open some minds (that time in my life will always be special), and I can't fault them for moving on. People are bovine, and one can only pour so much time and energy into motivating the masses.

MP3 was an unfortunate product of this lazy era, and, as much as I like the format for DJing, it has really devalued music as a whole. Why the hell would the average person buy a $12 vinyl when they can download the track and then delete it if it's not great? I tried to sell some ****ing great 12" acid tracks lately, and the prices I got were shocking. No one cares.

It makes me sad, but it also makes me realize that any original, hard, charged Acid tunes will surely cause ears to prick up. Most modern dance music is either about being "deep", being "cool", or being "psychedelic" (god help me for exploring modern "Psy"trance the last few years), with few tracks actually saying anything or contributing to moving society forward. Maybe I give dance music too much credit, but it used to help me release my anger and feel like some producers shared it with me.

I must be an old man.

[Si the Sigh]

Your not old bruv, you just miss the times when the music worked it's magic.

[morbid]

Theres not enough of a buzz in the scene these days for me, I still enjoy the music but I think everyone involved has branched out in so many different ways that you will never get the same vibe as 96 - 2000 acid / squat techno. Nothing will ever compare to immersion soundsystem in trafalgar square 97.

**** going to a squat party these days to watch battle of the egos between the rigs and a load of spazzers mincing around on ketamine to hardstyle bumcore or whatever is trendy these days.

Maybe Im getting old though but I bet nobody on here has as much fun on a night out as they did back in the day, correct me if Im wrong

[Aratron]

**** going to a squat party these days to watch battle of the egos between the rigs and a load of spazzers mincing around on ketamine to hardstyle bumcore or whatever is trendy these days.

Maybe Im getting old though but I bet nobody on here has as much fun on a night out as they did back in the day, correct me if Im wrong

yeah thats true it is a total ego fest these days.:lol: at battle of the rigs.
i like a small venue where i feel safe, i havent felt like that for ages.

[Aratron]

and DDR needs shaking to set him back on track! :)

you need help mate.

[Si the Sigh]

Nah, it's ok, I can manage.

/starts shaking

[Aratron]

Nah, it's ok, I can manage.

/starts shaking

i had a conversation with DDR about where he was going and his philosophy which has always been the same (see Hazchem - COSHH) HE IS ALWAYS TRYING TO CREATE THE AUTHENTIC OLD SKOOL ACID SOUND. so for you to suggest otherwise is a joke.

[Gus]

Haha. Im still around, Ive been making acid techno since 1993 and still play festivals, squats and free parties , though a lot less these days, partly because Ive found theres more to life than getting off my trolley at parties, and partly because theres less opportunities and places to play at. However now and again the tribes will gather and the beast will be unleashed. I LOVE acid techno - it is in my blood, howeve rI think the scene went seriously wrong in the late nineties when it became about ketamine and coke and lost the psychedelic and uplifting "liberating" side of itself. Parties started to look more like something out the night of the living dead than something were people had fun.
These days the underground scene is probably more centered around niche, bassline UKG and dubstep rather than acid techno and drum and bass. Squat parties still happen but the crackheads have turned them into and rather more sinister affaitr. Last time I looked Tribe of Munt were still playing Acid Techno at squat parties in London. The travellers have mostly fled to Europe where the torch of free party techno continues especially in the Czech republic. The scene is much smaller in London now and many of the old Acid techno heads ar enow middle aged with kids etc
I will never stop making it though and there will always be someone playing acid techno at some party somewhere just as there will always be Irish Jigs and reels in pubs in Ireland.
Here is my latest acid techno tunbes, free to download, that I made a couple of weeks ago at Glastonbury festival, which for me was free, because my Jedi blagging abilities have been honed to perfection ove rthe years :

http://www.soundclick.com/bezzerker


You can here the live version here and the other version higher quality :

http://www.myspace.com/thechurchofillusion

Viva le Acid Techno .

[nekro]

everything has been done with 'london' acid techno imo, hence most people have become bored with the genre.

i don't mind listening to a set or 2 of classic stuff but when you get 8hrs or so of DJs playing the same records over and over again it can somehwat kill the atmosphere. london squat parties got away with it cos most people were too ****ed to notice what they were listening to. a lot of djs in london seem to think that acid music revolves around stay up forever/smitten/cluster/routmaster etc...and don't delve any deeper

[speed-it-up]

I used to cain that Pull the Strings tune si put up!

There are no good soundsytems playing techno, acid or otherwise on the London squat scene on a regular basis. I went to one after the thing on Hackney Marshes the other week. 50 people, really shit techno, you had to be on k to even tolerate being there.

Compare that to 6 floors of an office block in the city, which you got regularly in the late 90s and you can see why all but the most diehard party heads give 'em a miss.

[nekro]

yeah, i popped my head into that one as well (sainsbury's building right?) - it was 2am and nothing was getting sorted so i cut my losses and went home. there are some decent parties further out of london and in the home counties, just need to avoid the hard trance/hard style sound systems

[speed-it-up]

yeah, i popped my head into that one as well (sainsbury's building right?) - it was 2am and nothing was getting sorted so i cut my losses and went home. there are some decent parties further out of london and in the home counties, just need to avoid the hard trance/hard style sound systems


Yeah, supermarket rave.

Can't be arsed to drive all that far to a free party anymore unless I know who is doing it or am spinning myself. If I want to hear quality techno now I'll go to a club.

[the_psychologist]

So Immersion and the like no longer do free parties? I don't have a sense of who the major rigs are now.

[Aratron]

So Immersion and the like no longer do free parties? I don't have a sense of who the major rigs are now.

no one important, by and large its a front for crooks to have an easy market to sell crap drugs.

[wrong]

Felt to comment even tho i don't play the london acid sound, but have been involved with the parties

[wrong]

oops.. try again...
Felt to comment even tho i don't play the london acid sound, but have been involved with the parties for a looong time.... I totally agree with whoever said that the music sometimes can be so monotonous and it was allowed cos everyone is too ****ed to realise... the london squat party these days can be a dismal place, with dark corners, robberies and a lot of people who are there not for the music or even the party, infact really not sure why they're there.. to get rowdy and simpley cos they've nothing better to do.. Not saying there aren't still people who do care.. just not nearly as many as before.. before it was everyone's party, now the responsibility generally falls soley on the soundsystem for everything...I think its like this because people stopped caring, stopped putting effort in, stopped getting the buildings the week before and stopped spending all week decorating it. the people who did care about putting good parties on in the 90's got pissed off with all the politics and stopped coming out, leaving it to people who lets say had other priorities, to drive the thing into the ground.
Now there are lots of really positive crews who are doing parties, and every few parties it will go OFF.. in a good way.. when everybody comes out, there's a good building... not a massive open warehouse with 30 people shivvering round a stack in the far corner and most importantly, a great atmosphere. In my opinion the crews who put on regular techno squat parties these days are all really sound and have the best attitudes, its just that there are now so many negative 'components' that have been ignored for so long that they're now almost part of it and not enough people are 'on it' enough to stand up to it and say NO (and i mean crew AND ravers).
As far as i'm concerned, ketamine played a massive part in dulling things, it definately took the importance out of the music and took the awareness away leaving parties a free for all for thieves and general dark behaviour... But agreed.. the days of 1000 happy smiling people, from all walks of life having it as one are truely over.. Although, the best parties now seem to be the semi private, smaller squat parties/semi-legal parties where you can quite easily have 100 smiling people in a room together :)
Please forgive the rant...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTiAU-w1KyI&e

[rhythmtech]

bow road 98/99 - immersion, twisted & underground sound all combined into one big **** off rig - jugglers, fire breathers, ddr live, all 3 liberators, lawrie playing pounding grooves live for one of the first times. good ****ing times!

[Gus]

This lot (Mutoid Waste Company) are still around, they had a wiked gabba tent at glastonbury and a robot drummer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHcX2Q5OBJg[/QUOTE]

[Gus]

and these parties play acid techno and happened in the last year and look like they have a pretty good vibe :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBjP01U6IBo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNRswUt_jm0

[nekro]

immersion stopped before the millenium i think, last time i saw the immersion rig out was at glastonbury in the travellers field, 99 i think.

there are occasionally multi-riggers but they cater more for the breakcore and drum n bass crowd and attract people from the home counties

[Si the Sigh]

Yea man, Immersion system at Glasto 99... :)

[AcidTrash]

In the other thread, the Chris Lib interview, Chris says the Fck you element has gone form the music. That is as true of acid as ever. Very little gutsy music around at the moment.(RIP Havok)

But then look at the backdrop. Think of any time since WW2 and the major musical movements are against a backdrop of economic and political upheaval. The acid techno movement was almost certainly a backlash to the Thatcherite economic reform programme which saw many in the working class wholesale disenfranchised.

ITs no coincidence that the impoverished Eastern Europes post communist dance scene utterly exploded. It was a celebration of liberty.

However, younguns today and us have had well on 16 years of economic stability, wealth and political security. We've had too much of a good thing for too long and taken it for granted that it will always be there to go back to.

While the lifestyle is fun and exciting, it also has an immense physical drain and is a huge distraction when it comes to securing your bases (ie income and housing). It's not something you do half heartedly so for a lot of people the hard choice has been all or nothing. Many have opted for the latter because the lifestyle, excpet for a privalaged few, is not sustainable.

Blowing half your wage on vinyl is also not sustainable and in an absolutely saturated and creatively spent market, where music is a commodity, committing anything less than awesome to vinyl is just not a risk worth taking.

In short, it's the economy, stupid.

But that is about to change. Everything is cyclic to some degree or other and we are about to see a lot of economic casualties. People who can no longer keep abreast of rapid changes in their diminishing finances and in such times, many will revert to their default setting... blowing it off and having fun. Much easier to do when you have nothing to lose.

At the moment, we all have something to lose but for many of us, that will change and when it does, I assure you, there will be no shortage of "fck you" music or parties to go to.

[nekro]

I The acid techno movement was almost certainly a backlash to the Thatcherite economic reform programme which saw many in the working class wholesale disenfranchised.

i think you're reading too much into this music sub-genre

[rhythmtech]

i think you're reading too much into this music sub-genre

he's not reading into it too much at all.. i was in london at the parties when it all kicked off and i can tell you it was a very political movement. look at trafalgar square as an example.

[AcidTrash]

Well this is precisely it. Show me one mass youth music uprising that hasn't been a rejection of over auuthoritarian government or a result of imbalances in civil rights.

Except maybe disco but most of the 70's should be consigned to the dustbin.

[AcidTrash]

Actually thinking about it, didnt the london acid movement/squat party scene explode as a result of the criminal justice bill?

[speed-it-up]

and these parties play acid techno and happened in the last year and look like they have a pretty good vibe :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBjP01U6IBo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNRswUt_jm0



munt don't go out regularly anymore

[rhythmtech]

it exploded as a result of a lot of stuff. trfalgar square was a dockers march which converged with a CJB march and it all kicked off.

like you said, it was a case of a disenfranchised youth. many elements were thrown into the pot and it all boiled over.

[AcidTrash]

Well all the signs are presently there for another boil over just by looking at the kind of rejectionist crime we are seeing lately. All it takes is a catalyst and then it kicks off again. My bet is something will happen that causes a lot of mortgage defaults or redundancies, probably form the public sector.

It can't be too far away. Will be interesting to see what form it takes this time.

[rhythmtech]

well house prices are dropping over here by a rate of €27 a day they reckon, and interest rates are starting to soar.. only problem is that the youths are to busy sticking coke up their noses to care about anything beyond themselves.. and the rest of us are to bloody tired to fight anymore!

[AcidTrash]

Well if you look at the late eighties/early nineties, there was a massive youth unemployment problem. (the devil made work for idle hands). We've since solved that by openning up the debt market and bundling them off to do david beckham studies at grantham and newark community university. However, the credit market is freezing, the state expenditure of failed grads is unsustainable and most of these universities will probably be haemorraging students by the end of the decade. Then you might actually see some real signs of youthful exhuberence. Especially when they realise that evryone has a multimedia design degree right down to the bloke doing your plastering.

[speed-it-up]

you might actually see some real signs of youthful exhuberence.


nah, they will go to a shit rave and do ketamine

[AcidTrash]

thats soooooo 2005.

[AcidTrash]

Let's face it... we're all just old.

[speed-it-up]

thats soooooo 2005.


get a grip son.
are you seriously saying the credit crunch will start a new wave of phat raves?
or are you wibbling on about some wider social context?

[AcidTrash]

I'm just hypotheseizing that mass music movements tend to coincide with econimic downturns and youth unemployment.

At present we have a whole host of things to keep us in on friday nights.... sky TV, internet, our own media centres... soon as that goes down the pan, we might actually wanna get out and start meeting each other in person again.

[force]

I'm just hypotheseizing that mass music movements tend to coincide with econimic downturns and youth unemployment.



True, the rave/acid house scene started and flourished in about 87/88 whilst the country was in the grip of the last recession..

[nekro]

the Trafalgar square party was to do with Reclaim The Streets and not exclusively acid techno music, RTS demos incorporated many different styles of music. i think a certain small number of ravers may have thought they were 'acid techno anarchists' but the mass majority were there just to take ketamine and didn't give a flying **** about any political agenda

[People_Mover]

On a personal note, back then I had my own agenda - to keep my job no matter what. Come to think of it, that still applies today. Selfish? No, just practical.

[AcidTrash]

the Trafalgar square party was to do with Reclaim The Streets and not exclusively acid techno music, RTS demos incorporated many different styles of music. i think a certain small number of ravers may have thought they were 'acid techno anarchists' but the mass majority were there just to take ketamine and didn't give a flying **** about any political agenda


Sure but we're not saying any specific event triggered the dance movement, more a backdrop of economic and social conditions which were a catalyst.

[nekro]

a backdrop of economic and social conditions which were a catalyst.

such as? i think it was just a continuation of acid music into another sub-genre. you make the music sound as though it's really politicised when it isn't

[AcidTrash]

The music wasnt politicised and nor was the scene but lets take a look shall we.

The second world war was the end of the empire and the end of the victorian social order. The post war industialisation and wider availability of goods created the first mass consumer society. Women during the war had been allowed to take the same jobs as men in the fields and factories and demanded that remained. During the 50's the generation which had sacrificed so much were demanding much more and weren't going to let the morality of the older generation dictate. This gave rise to the rebellion of the James Dean era and to a xcertain extent rock and roll and elvis etc.. leaping forward we have the american civil rights movement and vietnam which brought rise to the hippy mobement and its subsequent offshoots of psychedelia which gradually infected the UK.

We had an actual revolution followed by a cultrual and moral revolution and by the time the post war socialist state was begninning to cripple industry we had yet another social revlotion which brought rise to the Pistols and Punk.

Spot the pattern? Every time there is a rejection of the cultural and political status quo there is a new movement within music and youth culture.

The Thatcherite reforms were no less of an economic and social revolution. The shift from stagnant statism to free flowing individualism and some say selfishness. (see privatisation)

The opponents of which, or at least thatcherism, were always the reclaim the streets/animal right/SWP far lefty types. They were always inextricably linked to the squat "scene" and I've yet to meet an acid house DJ of the era who didnt have links with one or other organisation who were routinely waving placards or in running battles with the rozzers.
The first ravers would have been ex punks, and hippies of the Levellers/NMA pursuasion and anarchy types.

The arrival of ecstasy and mass availability of electronic gear was coincidental but tunes and pills do not a scene make. DJ's had to draw on audiences and where better to find them than at protest squats etc.

To say that the birth of rave was entirely apolitical and just a random mutation of genres based on technological advances doesnt sit well for me. That kind of thing happens all the time. its happend a dozen times since the birth of acid house.

What makes it a movement with political undertones is in evidence by the ensuing moral panics and media hype.
The great nichtomorph of the 90's.

In this case the catalyst was a drug but that drug appearing at any other time since, and the result would have looked entirely different if it happened at all.

Ideas only survive if they have a sea to swim in and such conditions only tend to be apparent in times of economic or social uncertainty.

[Gus]

The music wasnt politicised and nor was the scene but lets take a look shall we.

The second world war was the end of the empire and the end of the victorian social order. The post war industialisation and wider availability of goods created the first mass consumer society. Women during the war had been allowed to take the same jobs as men in the fields and factories and demanded that remained. During the 50's the generation which had sacrificed so much were demanding much more and weren't going to let the morality of the older generation dictate. This gave rise to the rebellion of the James Dean era and to a xcertain extent rock and roll and elvis etc.. leaping forward we have the american civil rights movement and vietnam which brought rise to the hippy mobement and its subsequent offshoots of psychedelia which gradually infected the UK.

We had an actual revolution followed by a cultrual and moral revolution and by the time the post war socialist state was begninning to cripple industry we had yet another social revlotion which brought rise to the Pistols and Punk.

Spot the pattern? Every time there is a rejection of the cultural and political status quo there is a new movement within music and youth culture.

The Thatcherite reforms were no less of an economic and social revolution. The shift from stagnant statism to free flowing individualism and some say selfishness. (see privatisation)

The opponents of which, or at least thatcherism, were always the reclaim the streets/animal right/SWP far lefty types. They were always inextricably linked to the squat "scene" and I've yet to meet an acid house DJ of the era who didnt have links with one or other organisation who were routinely waving placards or in running battles with the rozzers.
The first ravers would have been ex punks, and hippies of the Levellers/NMA pursuasion and anarchy types.

The arrival of ecstasy and mass availability of electronic gear was coincidental but tunes and pills do not a scene make. DJ's had to draw on audiences and where better to find them than at protest squats etc.

To say that the birth of rave was entirely apolitical and just a random mutation of genres based on technological advances doesnt sit well for me. That kind of thing happens all the time. its happend a dozen times since the birth of acid house.

What makes it a movement with political undertones is in evidence by the ensuing moral panics and media hype.
The great nichtomorph of the 90's.

In this case the catalyst was a drug but that drug appearing at any other time since, and the result would have looked entirely different if it happened at all.

Ideas only survive if they have a sea to swim in and such conditions only tend to be apparent in times of economic or social uncertainty.

I think ;uch of this is true. But , some would say sadly, there is another major fator in at least two of the most creative of these cultural revolutions - huge quantities of freely available L.S.D. - something I have no interest in but its influence on music is undeniable.

[nekro]

so acid techno was born because of dissillusionment with the thatcher era? :/

i really don't think that many of the artists, people involved in organising the squat parties in London or the 'ravers' were motivated by these reasons, some maybe, but the majority not. i was there week in week out at underground sounds, immersion, virus, bedlam, restless natives etc.etc. and this is not how i remember the scene being.

[AcidTrash]

The point being that the east end london activist scene was very much vibrant because of the thatcherite reforms. While they themselves maynot have been responsible for the scene as we know it, it was almost certainly the sea through which the idea initially swam.

[AcidTrash]

Just thinking. Turning it on its head, what notable sea changes in music have occured in times of economic prosperity and stability?

The blues were born of slavery, psychedelia was born of the hippie movement during a social revlolution, why is it so implausible that rave was a counter reaction to to the birth of modern consumer captialism as we know it?

[Gus]

Just thinking. Turning it on its head, what notable sea changes in music have occured in times of economic prosperity and stability?

The blues were born of slavery, psychedelia was born of the hippie movement during a social revlolution, why is it so implausible that rave was a counter reaction to to the birth of modern consumer captialism as we know it?

Disco ? Its the only one I could think of that didnt fit your hypothesis.

[AcidTrash]

Disco ? Its the only one I could think of that didnt fit your hypothesis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

Hardly a quiet decade of peace and stability. Although the origins of disco and or any social movement associated with it is outside my area of interest.

Probably the collective hangover of the hippie movement.

Can I phone a friend?

[Gus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

Hardly a quiet decade of peace and stability. Although the origins of disco and or any social movement associated with it is outside my area of interest.

Probably the collective hangover of the hippie movement.

Can I phone a friend?

Then again theres usually some heavy stuff going on in the world so you can always find something that was going on. I really dont think Disco was inspired by any sort of bad times though. However disco is mostly shite so maybe you could have a point - decent music is inspired by hardtimes.

[Technologic]

What's with all the negativity?

Jesus, no wonder the scene is in decline if everyone's so negative. I mean it's hardly going to get any better if all people are going to do is whinge and wish it was like it used to be, it won't be, the honeymoon period is over, deal with it and get on with having a good time FFS.

THE one thing i'm looking forward to the most is coming back to London and seeing my favourite DJ's banging out the acid whilst i'm busting some moves!

I think the guys have consistently done an outstanding job and we should be supporting them and the scene as much as we can, not kicking them/it while it's down and whinging as if it's all a load of bollocks. NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS FFS!!!

Peace out, party on, lets ****in 'ave it!!!

[Technologic]

The music wasnt politicised and nor was the scene but lets take a look shall we.

The second world war was the end of the empire and the end of the victorian social order. The post war industialisation and wider availability of goods created the first mass consumer society. Women during the war had been allowed to take the same jobs as men in the fields and factories and demanded that remained. During the 50's the generation which had sacrificed so much were demanding much more and weren't going to let the morality of the older generation dictate. This gave rise to the rebellion of the James Dean era and to a xcertain extent rock and roll and elvis etc.. leaping forward we have the american civil rights movement and vietnam which brought rise to the hippy mobement and its subsequent offshoots of psychedelia which gradually infected the UK.

We had an actual revolution followed by a cultrual and moral revolution and by the time the post war socialist state was begninning to cripple industry we had yet another social revlotion which brought rise to the Pistols and Punk.

Spot the pattern? Every time there is a rejection of the cultural and political status quo there is a new movement within music and youth culture.

The Thatcherite reforms were no less of an economic and social revolution. The shift from stagnant statism to free flowing individualism and some say selfishness. (see privatisation)

The opponents of which, or at least thatcherism, were always the reclaim the streets/animal right/SWP far lefty types. They were always inextricably linked to the squat "scene" and I've yet to meet an acid house DJ of the era who didnt have links with one or other organisation who were routinely waving placards or in running battles with the rozzers.
The first ravers would have been ex punks, and hippies of the Levellers/NMA pursuasion and anarchy types.

The arrival of ecstasy and mass availability of electronic gear was coincidental but tunes and pills do not a scene make. DJ's had to draw on audiences and where better to find them than at protest squats etc.

To say that the birth of rave was entirely apolitical and just a random mutation of genres based on technological advances doesnt sit well for me. That kind of thing happens all the time. its happend a dozen times since the birth of acid house.

What makes it a movement with political undertones is in evidence by the ensuing moral panics and media hype.
The great nichtomorph of the 90's.

In this case the catalyst was a drug but that drug appearing at any other time since, and the result would have looked entirely different if it happened at all.

Ideas only survive if they have a sea to swim in and such conditions only tend to be apparent in times of economic or social uncertainty.

Interesting stuff.

[davethedrummer]

What's with all the negativity?

Jesus, no wonder the scene is in decline if everyone's so negative. I mean it's hardly going to get any better if all people are going to do is whinge and wish it was like it used to be, it won't be, the honeymoon period is over, deal with it and get on with having a good time FFS.

THE one thing i'm looking forward to the most is coming back to London and seeing my favourite DJ's banging out the acid whilst i'm busting some moves!

I think the guys have consistently done an outstanding job and we should be supporting them and the scene as much as we can, not kicking them/it while it's down and whinging as if it's all a load of bollocks. NEVER MIND THE BOLLOCKS FFS!!!

Peace out, party on, lets ****in 'ave it!!!

I agree
I don't come on the acid forum too often these days mainly because the style is not as fresh as it was and I'm just not so crazy about 303's as i was a few years ago.
sorry about that.

but i still come and check stuff out and see what everyones up to
and there have been some great tracks kicking about here recently too.
i think saying these negative things about the scene just alienates people who are getting into it for the first time
and upsets some of the other guys who are trying hard to make good new stuff
it really disses all their hard work to say that it's all gone hard dance etc etc ...
i mean what the **** is that all about?
and I do take it a bit personally too , I can't help it.

but yeah
being negative will just not work.
you have to accept that it is not 1997 any more and look forward
and accept that while it may have been fun getting trashed and playing records for 3 days in a warehouse in hackney
you can't live that lifestyle forever (unless you want to die at 45 from a heart attack)
and once you break out of that mode , you see other forms of music and other ideas that are just as valid and exciting.

As for the political thing , I think that's become a bit overblown
it is true in a sense that acid techno had a political ethos, but the records were made for the sake of the music first and foremost.
the parties picked up around that i think , plus the end of the free traveller movement and the poll tax riots etc etc .....it was certainly inspiring
and it came out in the music for sure and pulled people together.
but it's not fair to say "what happened to these guys ?" or anything like that
because for me politics is still there , and i'm still into underground music.
and anyway ,what the hell has my life or political view got to do with you?

I think a vast majority of all techno is still "**** you" music
mainly because the musical ideas it deals with are abstract and go against the grain of commercial music.
and it needs a bit of a leap of faith to understand.
In a way shouting "**** you" over a track can be seen as being a bit naive too
and as i got older that started to ring a few alarm bells for me.
like "what kind of message are we actually trying to achieve here?"

so thats my say
I had to write something you understand
and I'm sure there'll be disagreements, no problem.
but let's try to pull together on this one
and maybe open that door to the future of the sound together
not wedge it so firmly shut that we lose it all forever.
that is the true crime.

[the_psychologist]

Well, my post was strictly to get some idea of what's happening in the underground scene. I had the fortune to attend a few London underground parties in the early 2000s when the sound was dark as ****, and even then something felt... off. I was pilled up like everyone, but that did not hide the reality of shady-looking people snorting stuff in the dark corners. So naturally I'm very curious what form the parties have taken now that acid has withered, MP3s are dominating, etc.. And I was also curious about the political angle because there seems to be so much globally that should have people angry and ready to make hard dance music. Instead, we get a never ending sea of "minimal" tunes to make us choochoo around the dancefloor and ponder the make of our cars.

Re: your (and the other dons) output, I stopped expecting you to churn out 303 tracks ages ago. I think an artist's enthusiasm for their music can be heard quite easily in the tunes, so it's best to move on when you've lost that spark for a given sound. What surprises me is that there has been no real hotbed of acid techno since you guys did it from the mid-90s to the early-00s. I fully expected that other British producers would have stepped in and become part of your crew, maybe taken up the reigns. But perhaps acid techno really is dead for the time being, and there aren't any people willing to invest on the level you all did.

I really want to take a crack at producing some tracks, as I have a pretty clear idea of a different direction I could take, but I lack the resources right now. Maybe part of the new acid techno philosophy would be the exploitation of software production in order to get back to that DIY mindset. Because I certainly cannot afford vintage synths right now. Our economy is ****ed, so pricey gear is bottom of the list.

I guess you all set the bar so high that it has made it difficult for others to carry on. Definitely a unique period in dance music that you all led.

[teknofilth]

writing this knackered so excuse the rambling, lack of punctuation etc but my tuppenceworth based on 10 yearsworth of squatpartying/djing etc is, in no particular order that;

hackney has less places to do the parties now what with the land being used for olympics/yuppie flat building..
..the crackheads of a few years sgo with their mugging etc took their toll on the scene, put lots of people off..
..the parties maybe due to their cheapness/sheer ****ing difference always had a lot of energy from immigrants..the italian squatter characters that helped fuel the parties in the late 90s seem less around these days..speaking to some italian mates they say that coming to london for a few years of madness is less a rite of passage these days..when the government opened up visas to latinamericans in early 2000s there was an upsurge in brazilianfuelled psytrance squatparties..now the uk government have enough newly qualified eu citizens from the east to do their lowpaid blackmarket jobs they stopped letting in so many brazilians..so the psy parties went quiet again..the new eu crews from the east eg poland are fuelling parties now but maybe more in a club environment for whatever reason..
..police are using terror laws that they couldnt use before to stop parties..
..acid techno was never going to remain at the same popularity..maybe like other genres such as dnb it will regroup/reinvent and come back with a vengeance..but for now the younger ones seem to be more into breakcore hardtek etc..using their own laptops to make stuff than watch a dj spin vinyl..which is what is still the norm at squatparties is..
..er yeah and crews just have moved on/got kids/had enough..
..definitely agree with the link between strong economy and weak alternative culture and viceversa also..think this is a big factor..
..oh yeah and k, not exactly condusive to people networking/talking/having a laugh/getting off their arses and doing anything which is what parties fuelled by uppers are more likely to be..
..sometimes when djing, looking up and seeing a load of dribbling zombies can be really dispiriting..
..and i think people spouting shite on internet forums probably (not this one i hasten to add)puts off interested but uninformed potential squatparty people "yeah i got mugged at a party..all i took was 3 lines of k in 5 minutes and i woke up without my money, phone etc and a bruise on my head..cant have been me falling down oh no" or "yeah so and so got stabbed and shot, i dont know who or when or where but i heard it did definitely happen" or "yeah they are well dodgy..well the ones i used to go to years ago were..i dont know about now but i will still spout off as if i went last weekend" etc..
..dont know enough about the politics fuelling it, coincidence playing a part or not etc but the coming together of characters like henry, chris, lawrie gizelle etc was something that doesnt happen very often..to follow that lot will probably happen but not straightaway..like expecting england to produce a paul gascoigne every summer..in my opinion like..zzz goodnight all

[teknofilth]

What surprises me is that there has been no real hotbed of acid techno since you guys did it from the mid-90s to the early-00s. I fully expected that other British producers would have stepped in and become part of your crew, maybe taken up the reigns. But perhaps acid techno really is dead for the time being, and there aren't any people willing to invest on the level you all did.


I guess you all set the bar so high that it has made it difficult for others to carry on. Definitely a unique period in dance music that you all led.


agree with the last para definitely..but there are producers around who will take up the reigns as you say..paul cortex, 3phaze generator off the top of my head..it is all cyclical i reckon..imo that keeps it fresh, maybe acid techno as we knew it is dead yes but there will always be acid music..although when there were distributor problems with the uk acid i did look abroad but found nothing but boingboing cliche squelchysquelchy stuff..not the dirty london stuff..so yes lets have a sabbatical, move on and producers take your time and mature the london acid sound..its worth waiting for imo..

[nekro]

for those that are genuinely interested in what the london 'scene' is like these days then check out this weekends party, should be quite a few sound systems there since it's a bank holiday

[electoad]

my 2 cents
boredom + unstable tempwork + depression(optional) = megga creativity aka doing things for yourself.... creative evolution.

stable comfortable job = stable overweight comfortable mediocrity, consuming and expecting others to throw the good parties. Aka all fun and no tough.

[People_Mover]

I think you'll find that Disco grew out of the gay rights scene - the discoteque was the only social outlet for gays at the time. So in that sense, disco was a form of social protest. Without it, it's unlikely that much of today's dance music would even exist.

[People_Mover]

Hmmm...my last post was supposed to be in reply to one on page 3. I didn't realise we were up to page 4. Never mind....

[People_Mover]

One thing I will say though - acid techno is, by its very nature, limited in scope. What worked back in 1996 still works today. New tunes will always be compared to the classics and probably suffer as a result. In order to survive, the music must evolve - not so as to sound like anything else, but to remain in a sector all its own, Does that make sense?

[AcidTrash]

I think you'll find that Disco grew out of the gay rights scene - the discoteque was the only social outlet for gays at the time. So in that sense, disco was a form of social protest. Without it, it's unlikely that much of today's dance music would even exist.


Sounds about right. Was thinking earlier today that my explanation of disco was vague and implausible but that probably has it.

[AcidTrash]

@DTD...

You say that techno is essentially fck you music but do you find that its harder to find an expression of "fck you" in a more socially liberal society since there are very few moral or musical taboos anymore?

I would have thought that very little in the dance world could be interpretted as rebellious given that mainstream media has so readily stolen and absorbed most underground music.

[force]

@DTD...

You say that techno is essentially fck you music but do you find that its harder to find an expression of "fck you" in a more socially liberal society since there are very few moral or musical taboos anymore?

I would have thought that very little in the dance world could be interpretted as rebellious given that mainstream media has so readily stolen and absorbed most underground music.



mainly because the musical ideas it deals with are abstract and go against the grain of commercial music.
and it needs a bit of a leap of faith to understand.


^^

[AcidTrash]

Well what exactly does go against the grain of commercial music these days since just about every concept from the underground has been absorbed?

Most forms of techno are in your face on a daily basis in adverts and trailers.

[force]

Which makes most techno producers worth their salt say, fck you, i'm gonna try and make something different, using sound elements in other ways, experimentation, rather than same old same old.
Its only a lack of imagination/talentwhen it comes to the paint by numbers stuff.

Its only really techno and the more cutting edge breakcore stuff that still tries to push the boundries.
Other genres tend to find a winning formular and stick with it.

(hard) house/dance/nrg/trance etc.

[force]

since just about every concept from the underground has been absorbed?



Come up with new concepts then.

[AcidTrash]

Which makes most techno producers worth their salt say, fck you, i'm gonna try and make something different, using sound elements in other ways, experimentation, rather than same old same old.
Its only a lack of imagination/talentwhen it comes to the paint by numbers stuff.



Thats just it though, its not just the paint by numbers underground stuff in the mainstream. Seen carphone warehouse ad and the specsavers one. Oh and that Hyundai ad. The underground IS mainstream.



Its only really techno and the more cutting edge breakcore stuff that still tries to push the boundries.


strong words there.

[Technologic]

Thats just it though, its not just the paint by numbers underground stuff in the mainstream. Seen carphone warehouse ad and the specsavers one. Oh and that Hyundai ad. The underground IS mainstream.



strong words there.

Yeah, is it really that bad though?

I remember D&B's reputation dwindling because of the chart success of Champion and Original Nutter, but it's still going pretty strong and it's not like we're likely to hear the latest hardcore techno track in the charts now is it?

It has all gone rather commercial though hasn't it?
Lab 4 doing toothepaste ads (some time ago now i know), the fashion channel using the posey techno as a soundtrack thanks to Miss Kitten and what with the media tools available to us today, internet, youtube, myspace etc, no wonder it's all become so commercialised and the listeners spectrum has been broadened to what they wouldn't normally hear because it was all so underground.

Like i say though, is it really a bad thing that these neiche genres are actually getting some coverage?

And if so, why?

Do people really turn their nose up at what may well be actually quite decent tunes just because they're on TV?

Why so?

If you ask me, at the end of the day good music is good music, if it's on TV or not.

[Gus]

I agree

you have to accept that it is not 1997 any more.

Im still trying to accept its not 1993 anymore !
Anyway I know what you mean about the lifestyle. I was talking to this girl about it, she hates techno, and she was saying - youve stopped taking the drugs now stop listening to the music. I was trying to explain to her its not just about the drugs but she wasnt having any of it. I do love techno but I am not a druggie anymore and to be like that for life is not my thing, however the music IS designed to illicit a certain response whilst people are on drugs, yet I still love it. What a dilema. I guess maybe once a year in a field is not going to kill me.

[Gus]

I agree

you have to accept that it is not 1997 any more.

Im still trying to accept its not 1993 anymore !
Anyway I know what you mean about the lifestyle. I was talking to this girl about it, she hates techno, and she was saying - youve stopped taking the drugs now stop listening to the music. I was trying to explain to her its not just about the drugs but she wasnt having any of it. I do love techno but I am not a druggie anymore and to be like that for life is not my thing, however the truth is , side from political matters, the music IS designed to illicit a certain response whilst people are on drugs, yet I still love it. What a dilema. I guess maybe once a year in a field is not going to kill me.

[rhythmtech]

i think we all (well most of us anyway) got cained a lot to acid techno.. but i think those memories of what it can do are the reason why its so special, it still does those things to me sober because my brain is programmed to react a certain way to it. maybe..

[Gus]

People always say - oh Acid techno that was the nineties man, thats over - then they go and put a jungle cd on ! or hip hop which preceded acid techno by ten years. Its just another genre that will always exist now, like trad jazz or skiffle.

[Lag]

from what i heard of acid techno around these forums is kick + quantised snare on every second kick + quantised hihats + looped bassline + 303 with filter going up and down

thats about it. 0 groove, 0 futurism, 0 punk, 0 funk. all 140-150bpm.
acid techno should be 30-200 bpm, experiments, different rythms, shuffled, delayed with mad effects and otherworldly feeling, like all techno. no limits i experimenting, heavy punk or heavy funk or heavy futurism. thats what made it big (i mean all techno), and now that its gone - ofcourse nobody will like it. u gotta have in mind that the audience, the people who u need to fill the club, doesnt want to listen to music just cause its got a big kick and a 303. they wanna hear MUSIC and the kick and the 303 can be a part of the music. i hope im making sense

just listen to the oldschool techno. mescalinum united - we have arrived, x-101 x-102, old millses, early prodigy records etc and ull know what i mean

[d3v]

from what i heard of acid techno around these forums is kick + quantised snare on every second kick + quantised hihats + looped bassline + 303 with filter going up and down

thats about it. 0 groove, 0 futurism, 0 punk, 0 funk. all 140-150bpm
acid techno should be 30-200 bpm, experiments, different rythms, shuffled, delayed with mad effects and otherworldly feeling

One of the things i always liked about acid techno was the directness and lack of pretention in the music - that (along with the political) is a big part of what makes it the punk rock of techno IMO. For me its much more focused on wrecking a dance floor than large scale experimentation and pushing the limits of musical boundaries - when i feel like listening to something that does that i go elsewhere in my collection.

I don't think this is the reason that acid tec is not as listened to as it used to be - even if something stands still it can still be fresh to someone who hasn't heard it before. When shopping online for tunes there seems to be a glut of hard house/hardstyle stuff none of which i've heard so far that offers anything that wasn't on the table years ago either - yet theres tons of it and quality acid is much, much more difficult to find.

[Gus]

What I like about acid techno is its completely unpretentious.

[Gus]

That and the unbelievably positive energy that liberated you from the misery and mundanity of everyday existance and dissolved the illusion that is the world the "system" has created for us. In the end though the druggie lifestyle just becomes a different sort of prison. Acid techno was never just about drugs for me.

[davethedrummer]

Well what exactly does go against the grain of commercial music these days since just about every concept from the underground has been absorbed?

Most forms of techno are in your face on a daily basis in adverts and trailers.

i don't agree

[nihilist]

what goes against the grain is putting on an avin't party in a field or a warehouse.


i think its important to get younger poeple into techno for it to grow again, but it's hard. they seem to have the attention span of a nat these days, they seem to go where ever its trendy tobe what every the music.

acid techno will never be absorbed into the main stream!!!

[Gus]

LSD will never be absorbed into the mainstream, so if you make music on acid and dance around in a field or some other illegal place chances are its going to annoy mainstream society. Today however acid is hard to come by and we live in a complete nanny state - the very antithesis of the rugged wilderness which is the essential habitat for acid techno to thrive. Besides I wouldnt want to take it again anyway - I dont want to go mad.
Acid techno cannot defeat the state because at the end of the day its made by a bunch of hippies/punks/travellers on drugs whereas the state is armed to the teeth and protected by riot shields etc This makes a mockery of Acid technos pretensions to be able effect change politically and has resulted in the impotent druggy mess we see today. Sure you can influence peoples attitudes with music but ....
Ill tell you what - I HATE that tune "one night in Hackney" as far as Im concerned that is when the "system" won and acid techno sunk as far down as it could get and became just about getting mashed.
Ill tell you one thing good acid techno does - it makes you feel free.

[the_psychologist]

Ill tell you what - I HATE that tune "one night in Hackney" as far as Im concerned that is when the "system" won and acid techno sunk as far down as it could get and became just about getting mashed.
Ill tell you one thing good acid techno does - it makes you feel free.

Yeah, but for all the missteps and cheezy tunes, the dons produced 10x as many banging tracks. Anyone else here put out a fraction as many tracks as the Chris/Henry/Lawrie/Guy/DDR combo of the 90s?

It seems like hedonistic dance music is kind of dead now, ie Hardcore, "Psy" Trance, UK Hard House (at least where I live), and Acid Techno. I'm not sure why Minimal has become so embedded in the world party scene, and it shows a change in tastes. I think people are more into feeling cool now than just losing it to music all night long.

Shit, even the DJs seem to be in it just to be seen. I have spoken to several lately who didn't even know what tunes they were playing. It's just a download/play it/delete it mentality now. I spoke to one idiot who said he "never plays the same track twice", and he is a local fixture who plays out all the time at higher profile parties. There's no sense of history and preservation of the music and attached culture.

People talk about how Acid comes and goes, but I'm really concerned that overt Acid is done. If someone can meld it with Minimal, it'll deffo work. But who can imagine a dancefloor pulsing to "**** Goa" these days? The golden age is a snapshot of everything that was happening at that time, as well as the enthusiasm of the producers. It can't just be conjured up at will.

[the_psychologist]

I should add that the Canadian artist MUX is one of the only acts I've heard in the past few years that seemed to capture the same spirit. Hardware fetishist does ravey acid techno with weird samples and funky programming. I wonder what he's doing these days?

[Gus]

Yeah, but for all the missteps and cheezy tunes, the dons produced 10x as many banging tracks. Anyone else here put out a fraction as many tracks as the Chris/Henry/Lawrie/Guy/DDR combo of the 90s?
.


Oh yes they made some brilliant records. They learnt to work as a team.

[nekro]

from what i heard of acid techno around these forums is kick + quantised snare on every second kick + quantised hihats + looped bassline + 303 with filter going up and down

thats about it. 0 groove, 0 futurism, 0 punk, 0 funk. all 140-150bpm.
acid techno should be 30-200 bpm, experiments, different rythms, shuffled, delayed with mad effects and otherworldly feeling, like all techno. no limits i experimenting, heavy punk or heavy funk or heavy futurism. thats what made it big (i mean all techno), and now that its gone - ofcourse nobody will like it. u gotta have in mind that the audience, the people who u need to fill the club, doesnt want to listen to music just cause its got a big kick and a 303. they wanna hear MUSIC and the kick and the 303 can be a part of the music. i hope im making sense

just listen to the oldschool techno. mescalinum united - we have arrived, x-101 x-102, old millses, early prodigy records etc and ull know what i mean

what he says ^^

uk acid techno is dead because the tracks are way too formulaic and people are bored of listening to that style now

[FuK-NuT]

this thread rocks...

im moving to the big smoke soon...this has actually gave me an insight and understanding of things im looking to get in too ;)

[nihilist]

i cant be arsed with this thread anymore............ same old same old.........whats the point in going round and round bush?

get out there and do it !!

[Gus]

i cant be arsed with this thread anymore............ same old same old.........whats the point in going round and round bush?

get out there and do it !!


Do what ?

[Gus]

what he says ^^

uk acid techno is dead because the tracks are way too formulaic and people are bored of listening to that style now

Im not - im bored of R and B

[the_psychologist]

i cant be arsed with this thread anymore............ same old same old.........whats the point in going round and round bush?

get out there and do it !!

not really - we've been discussing more than just "i like it / i don't like it". just don't read the thread if you don't like it.

i'm quite interested in the social factors that have buried party dance music under a pile of plinks and plonks.

[the_psychologist]

from what i heard of acid techno around these forums is kick + quantised snare on every second kick + quantised hihats + looped bassline + 303 with filter going up and down

thats about it. 0 groove, 0 futurism, 0 punk, 0 funk. all 140-150bpm.
acid techno should be 30-200 bpm, experiments, different rythms, shuffled, delayed with mad effects and otherworldly feeling, like all techno. no limits i experimenting, heavy punk or heavy funk or heavy futurism. thats what made it big (i mean all techno), and now that its gone - ofcourse nobody will like it. u gotta have in mind that the audience, the people who u need to fill the club, doesnt want to listen to music just cause its got a big kick and a 303. they wanna hear MUSIC and the kick and the 303 can be a part of the music. i hope im making sense

just listen to the oldschool techno. mescalinum united - we have arrived, x-101 x-102, old millses, early prodigy records etc and ull know what i mean

Yeah, what's interesting is that some of the Minimal/Tech House tunes coming out are as hard and funky as classic Acid tracks. Boys Noize stuff, Trentemoller, Soulwax, and so forth. Huge builds, hard kicks, and a lot of glitched-out squelches (even acid sometimes). I really think that people will still lose it to hard music, but I think it does need to be more... complex? I don't know what the word is. I'm confident that there are new frontiers for "acid" music that have yet to be explored. Remember, we used to call Cluster and the like "Acid Techno". It's more about a vibe than a specific piece of hardware.

[Gus]

Just do it man !

[Gus]

Another thing - way to many people not enough trains !

[Adey]

there were great hard acid parties in 1994/5 - the london acid techno thing had its peak in 1997/8.

[Lag]

Yeah, what's interesting is that some of the Minimal/Tech House tunes coming out are as hard and funky as classic Acid tracks. Boys Noize stuff, Trentemoller, Soulwax, and so forth. Huge builds, hard kicks, and a lot of glitched-out squelches (even acid sometimes). I really think that people will still lose it to hard music, but I think it does need to be more... complex? I don't know what the word is. I'm confident that there are new frontiers for "acid" music that have yet to be explored. Remember, we used to call Cluster and the like "Acid Techno". It's more about a vibe than a specific piece of hardware.
as i said... just play this track (has nothing to do with acid but much to do with techno): the vision - explain the style
its very simple yet its got a drive

[steve mills]

ACID TECHNO through & through !!!!!