Creamfields Have Not Paid Me!!!

[davethedrummer]

I've held off moaning about this for a whole month
but now i feel justified to let rip.
Ii played for Creamfields last month august 16th 2008 in Wroclaw Poland
and they STILL haven't paid !!

Yes it was raining and the attendance was no good
but still, this is just not right.
they have been stringing me along with a bunch of useless emails ever since
but no-one has actually put their hand in their pockets and paid up.

I am seriously hacked off!
Yes of course I have a contract , and invoices and all the emails etc etc
but it's very unlikely that I'll ever be able to get a solicitor to take it on board
purely because the amount of money is too small ( 1000euro )

but what makes me really sick is the fact that
Carl Craig , and Juan Atkins were playing in the same tent
and I bet they didn't have to fight for their money!

also I tried numerous times to get the cash sorted out up front before the gig.
and even on the night I tried again and I was told my payment was being done right then and would be in my bank by the time i got home.
and due to the fact that I played for them last year with no problems I assumed it was ok.
HOW WRONG I WAS

so there you go!
THIS IS the reality of being a DJ/Musician
being ripped off by the people you least expect it from!
and i have to say they pretty much ****ed up my home life for a good couple of weeks after too.
that was not funny either.

thank god a load of studio work came in to pay the bills.

so CREAMFIELDS if you are reading this
this is just the beginning.

[BRADLEE]

nah, that's ****ed Henry...you're not the promoter, just the hired talent mate. Attendance isn't your responsability. Sorry to hear that man.

[rhythmtech]

im getting tired of this bullshit myself.

if a someones boss refused to pay them cause the company had a slow week there'd be uproar - unions would be involved and all.

promoters need to learn to have the money upfront and stop relying on takings on the door.

ive promoted in the past and paid artists out of my own pocket because takings were a little low.

very surprised at an organisation like creamfields doing this.

hope you get it back h.

[tonyc2002]

They wont be doing any favours to their reputation in stitching people up. Admittedly I havent had alot of experience dealing with promoters but its pretty shocking to think a big, well known organisation like that are messing DJ's about. Are you able to speak to anyone else who was playing? See if they have been ****ed about aswell?

[xes]

burn them,burn them ALL.


:)

[DannyBlack]

That is shitty. Cunts. I would work for partial (if not all) payment up front. F*ck em, unreliable cunts.
I would be out for blood at this stage if I were you.

[Athar]

bastards!

sorry to say that but creamfields its crap over here and a lot people in poland will never support this because like you said they dont respected the producers and the musicans, contracts etc, its a just big comercial event im affraid, they dont care .......

I think it was last one creamfields event there and the creamfields promoters are ... gone ?

i can copy your thread from here and post in the right place in poland if you like mate

[Technobitch]

thats well out of order, yeah athar get it posted its not on

[The Overfiend]

Make sure Henry gets his fair due.
Good luck on this one man.

[djfilthmonger]

a job is a job at the end of the day , u need to get paid for the work u did. simple as.

[BloodStar]

sorry to hear that, mate. hopefully things get sorted for you.....

[davethedrummer]

I'm still in touch with the people at cream uk
They are backing me up
But the buck stops with the polish guys
And they seem to have vanished.
I'm hoping it still may be resolved
But it's a hell of a long time to wait for money

And it's cream!
I shouldn't have to wait.

[DannyBlack]

Find out where they live, then take 2 stocky chaps, 2 socks with pool balls inside and work em over a bit. While you're there turn their place over- get a bit of extra cash.

[dan the acid man]

Hope you get it sorted soon, at least you've got the Cream UK guys behind you, i'm sure they hate to see their name being dragged through the mud.

[MARK ANXIOUS]

the thing is bro, the buck stops with cream. it's their name on the event at the end of the day. if you chase them, you will get the most done... much more than some polish guys who obviously don't care about getting back to you... f them.... and EVERYONE reading this should remember these idiots if they ever play in poland... and also remember if you play abroad you DEFINTELY should expect money either upfront or b4 you play.... or you stand the chance to get ripped... please remember this!!!

ok so h ya messed up.. ya played without the cash.. i do it all the time if chrissi istn there hahaha.. let's think about how ya gonna get paid.. perhaps the accounts were with cream uk? but surely someone should have told you this?

anyway.. i have to say, from my dealings with ahhemmm 'bigger' uk organisations, such as cream, you do eventually get paid.. it just takes damn long time. they all tend to work by cheque and unless you chase them it can take forever - i have been waiting almost 6 months for my last cheque from one of them but that's my own fault. wont say which one.. but i do know i'll get paid so nps.. the bigger orgs do tend to pay up if you go to the right dpt...

just get onto the accounts dept @ cream and be nice, no need to be horrible. you'll get much more sorted that way mate. good luck..

[davethedrummer]

well like I said
I am still talking to the uk cream
So no missiles just yet.
I think I will get it
But it's the uncertainty, the hassle,
And the long wait I object to.

Cream are aware of how angry I am
Why don't they just sort it?
It must be easy for them to do.

Anyway
Enough griping. I'll let you all know what happens.

[xes]

If you want some novel revenge ideas,I'm your man :)



(scorpions in the glove box,tarantulars in the shed,make them think they've killed someone,you name it,I'll name the price :lol: )

[DirtyHard]

That's shite , i hope you get it sorted out,
we had a long battle with a techno night in Manchester getting the cash off them , they claimed all sorts . and we could,nt afford to take them to court , but as we were about to take it to the small courts , we got 60% of what the owed us , we cut our losses we could,nt do out else ....
im sure a big name like cream wont want there name dragged around in a bad way

[teknofilth]

hope you get it sorted mate..i echo what people said about hassling the uk part of the organisation, your best bet i reckon..all the best

[APC]

If you do manage to find them, creep into their room late at night, perhaps with a balaclava. Then make certain that they sleep naked. Turn the heating up so they pull the covers down. Then, rid yourself of the natural barrier of going near their arse and slip a chocolate button or two in their arse crack.

When they wake up, it would have melted and they will think that they have followed through in their sleep and they might feel slightly ashamed or something.

[xes]

If you do manage to find them, creep into their room late at night, perhaps with a balaclava. Then make certain that they sleep naked. Turn the heating up so they pull the covers down. Then, rid yourself of the natural barrier of going near their arse and slip a chocolate button or two in their arse crack.

When they wake up, it would have melted and they will think that they have followed through in their sleep and they might feel slightly ashamed or something.

better still,get them so hammered that they have no clue where they are,and will have no memory in the morning. Go to your revenge kit,which comprises of some human hair,and some pig brains/bones/flesh. Stick a massive dent on their car,and wedge the hairmflesh and brains in the grill,and on the nice big dent you've made. Leave messages on their answering machine from "the police,wanting to talk to him with reguards to a fatal hit and run incident" Shit bricks time :cool: (you could also stick some choclate buttons up their bottoms if you like)

[APC]

better still,get them so hammered that they have no clue where they are,and will have no memory in the morning. Go to your revenge kit,which comprises of some human hair,and some pig brains/bones/flesh. Stick a massive dent on their car,and wedge the hairmflesh and brains in the grill,and on the nice big dent you've made. Leave messages on their answering machine from "the police,wanting to talk to him with reguards to a fatal hit and run incident" Shit bricks time :cool: (you could also stick some choclate buttons up their bottoms if you like)

Safe! :D

[fils_here]

I'm still in touch with the people at cream uk
They are backing me up
But the buck stops with the polish guys
And they seem to have vanished.
I'm hoping it still may be resolved
But it's a hell of a long time to wait for money

And it's cream!
I shouldn't have to wait.

no man you shouldn't have to wait, you turned up did what you normally get paid for, what a bunch of **nts!! hope it get's sorted henry.

[davethedrummer]

well it's been another week and
still no movement in either direction.
uk insist that poland should pay
poland have run off with the cookie jar
uk are very apologetic but still no dosh or even a promise of dosh.

i'm sharpening the knives

[MARK ANXIOUS]

now that cream are saying no, i think you gotta take it to the next level.

get to the highest guy in the company.. treat it no different to just like you would with a commercial organisation..

also have you sent them an invoice? often with these ppl chrissi will ask for the accounts department and get the cash direct without the arguments/bullshit.

in fact, don't even bother phoning anymore.. send to the main guy a really official looking letter. look round the net for some good templates for complaining to companies... at the end of the day it's a service you provided and you havent been paid... think about who you signed the agreement with. if it was with cream it's easier. but if it was poland, well it's going to be a little more difficult, but it was still in 'creams' name, so you would expect them to hold some responsibility... you'd word your letter to the main guy accordingly then, not being too in ya face, but telling them how you 'hope' they'll sort it out cause you'd 'hate to think they run their business like this'..... get the grammar right, friendly but firm, and oh and don't forget to send it recorded....

then if a few months down the line that isnt working.. speak to your solicitor and see what the options are.. that's when it gets really serious..

i think the key now is to take the 'music trust' out of the equation and get a serious plan of action.... treat it like a game, almost like a challenge too.. you'll sort it mate, i promise. as long as you start to take it seriously and do things fair and by the book

i'm sure you know this anyway heh :)

good luck man

[davethedrummer]

now that cream are saying no, i think you gotta take it to the next level.

get to the highest guy in the company.. treat it no different to just like you would with a commercial organisation..

also have you sent them an invoice? often with these ppl chrissi will ask for the accounts department and get the cash direct without the arguments/bullshit.

in fact, don't even bother phoning anymore.. send to the main guy a really official looking letter. look round the net for some good templates for complaining to companies... at the end of the day it's a service you provided and you havent been paid... think about who you signed the agreement with. if it was with cream it's easier. but if it was poland, well it's going to be a little more difficult, but it was still in 'creams' name, so you would expect them to hold some responsibility... you'd word your letter to the main guy accordingly then, not being too in ya face, but telling them how you 'hope' they'll sort it out cause you'd 'hate to think they run their business like this'..... get the grammar right, friendly but firm, and oh and don't forget to send it recorded....

then if a few months down the line that isnt working.. speak to your solicitor and see what the options are.. that's when it gets really serious..

i think the key now is to take the 'music trust' out of the equation and get a serious plan of action.... treat it like a game, almost like a challenge too.. you'll sort it mate, i promise. as long as you start to take it seriously and do things fair and by the book

i'm sure you know this anyway heh :)

good luck man


sound advice
i'll give it a go
what have i got to loose?

[Lag]

time?

[acidguru]

Build up the pressure,go straight ahead..
Those unlucky punks..

[machina]

Yeah - mark's option is the best - invoice them and if they don't respond send them a official letter saying you have no choice but to turn over the invoice to your debt collectors (and name some debt collection company whether you use them or not)... i've had to do this several times and as soon as they see the mention of a debt collector my money mysteriously appears (sometimes after months of screwing around) - have never actually had to use a debt collector for anything - just to scare them into action

[DannyBlack]

Why not go to the solicitor now? I mean, essentially you are a company- your company provided a service and was never paid for said service. Did you say that you have a contract with them?
Are you contracted to Creamfields the company or to the polish?

Actually, are the polish guys a seperate company? (subcontractors for Creamfields?)
In which case, who's name is on the contract, because it is them who need to pay you.
After that, the next step is to sue, sounds a little cold. However, I think not paying you for a job you did is cold.

Need any legal advice on contract law? PM me.

[krimewave]

then if a few months down the line that isnt working.. speak to your solicitor and see what the options are.. that's when it gets really serious..

I would say weeks rather than months.

[MARK ANXIOUS]

I would say weeks rather than months.

yeah sorry, that's what i meant :wink:

[zyclone]

The polish guys should have been kidnapped, taken far away into the woods, got tied up too a tree and fed with shitloads of acid.
But mark EG's solution is a bit better! Good luck with this, hope it gets sorted out for you Henry :)

Exuse my french btw.

[xes]

The polish guys should have been kidnapped, taken far away into the woods, got tied up too a tree and fed with shitloads of acid.


but they didn't pay? Why reward them :;

[davethedrummer]

Why not go to the solicitor now? I mean, essentially you are a company- your company provided a service and was never paid for said service. Did you say that you have a contract with them?
Are you contracted to Creamfields the company or to the polish?

Actually, are the polish guys a seperate company? (subcontractors for Creamfields?)
In which case, who's name is on the contract, because it is them who need to pay you.
After that, the next step is to sue, sounds a little cold. However, I think not paying you for a job you did is cold.

Need any legal advice on contract law? PM me.

I talked to my accountant about this
and he's a very well respected music biz guy himself
he didn';t think there was much point in trying a solicitor as it just wasn;t enough cash to make it fly.

Musicians union maybe
I'm getting a plan together and i'll get it into action next week when i've got a bit more time
i'll let you know how it goes.

[Patrick DSP]

I talked to my accountant about this
and he's a very well respected music biz guy himself
he didn';t think there was much point in trying a solicitor as it just wasn;t enough cash to make it fly.

Musicians union maybe
I'm getting a plan together and i'll get it into action next week when i've got a bit more time
i'll let you know how it goes.

hey henry,

want me to headbutt some guys for you into paying?
seriously though, did you originally deal with the uk guys or the polish guys? who signed the contracts. if it was the uk guys, you'd have an easier time since you're in the same country. if it's polish, you might be S.O.L. because i don't think a musician's union could do much. but you're obviously already dealing with blokes who have more legal experiance at this than i do.

good luck mate.

[zyclone]

but they didn't pay? Why reward them :;

10 sheets of acid and tied to a tree in the woods for a few days isn't a reward.
They would have been f****d for life :)

[MARK ANXIOUS]

this will be VERY interesting to see what happens here. legally, it's pretty obvious. if signed the contract with poland, you're gonna have to understand the polish law system. i would speak to someone you know in poland about how you would tackle something like this as if you were a regular bloke providing a service . if not, it's the uk system. whichever it is mate, and i would do what i said. just think of it from now on as if you were a regular business guy wanting to get paid. what i've learnt is you need to remove yourself from the music 100% and think purely along the lines of law/the way regular shit operates.. it's sometimes very hard for musicians to get their head around that i think.... luckily it hasn't happened that much to me, but the times it has, you need to be on the case and do things by the book. it's the only way you'll get it sorted...

you know, it's kind of obvious, but if you're in the industry, you've got to do alot of this type of crap yourself. it's a damn shame. it would be great getting solicitors/lawyers to sort this out, but tbh many of us can't afford it or it would just not be worth doing if we got one (check henry's first post). hopefully h will chase this and we'll all see a result!!! it truly would be great to get a result :)

[Siege]

Send a bunch of Hackney,pipe weilding heavies over there, go medieval on those fckers!



seriously.....hope you get it sorted Henry.

[JamieBall]

Unfortunately, through personal experience, I can confirm that the people who run/ran cream in Liverpool (theoretically the 'top dogs') are mainly interested in A) Ripping off good people & B) fannying about on foreign islands sticking cocaine up their bum-bums. The tales really are endless.

If you want to get your cash out of them you'll need to start a SEVERE fire under their arses - to be honest I just don't think enough of a blaze could be kindled by someone from our scene, it's not enough of a blow to them to lose our support eh. THEY MOST SURELY DO NOT GIVE A **** ABOUT IT. This is borne out by their complete lack of action on the subject...

Even the fact that they are claiming it to be the fault of the Polish smacks of LAMENESS. It's their ****ing company, if they were really afraid of offending you and/or receiving bad press (like they're getting here) they would be able to sort something out at the drop of a hat. You're not important to them, H. ****ing shit situation but I think that is the bottom line, sadly. So, it's either make yourself important to them (ie such a ****ing nuisance they cannot think without you nipping their heads, which will be difficult and time consuming) or just put it down to experience :-(

Don't play for them again and make sure everyone knows about the situation (you seem to be doing an admirable job so far)

CUNTS.

[Technologic]

Good thread, shit circumstance.

Hope you get it sorted Henry and good luck!

[BDC]

****ed up situation man....but in the end I'm sure you'll handle your biz....

[davethedrummer]

well i sent them the last pleasant ( ish ) email today
last chance ....etc etc ....

from now in it'll be legal and demanding
i signed with the polish so not much chance of getting money out of them
but it might be possible to annoy the english side so much that they just sort me out to get me out of their hair.

frank kvitta played with me that night at cream
and i met him again this weekend in austria.

so i asked him what happened to him and this is what he told me.

he asked and asked all night on the ( soaking wet ) site until finally someone took notice and told him to hang on.
so he did, until the end of the event. ( 2 hours after his set finished )

and finally after more confusion and phone calls
they tracked down the guy with the cash
who paid him, in polish zloty.

of course frank was expecting euros
and it meant he had to change it at the airport and he lost a fair bit in the exchange. ( 50 euros down he said )

but the main thing is
this is cream, a big organization ,
and they didn't have money ready for him , they must've paid him from the door takings ( which i was told they were still waiting for 2 weeks ago ! another lie !)

and paying a DJ in zloty is really unprofessional of them don't you think?
but at least he got his money right?

truth is , if he hadn't really hassled he would be in the same boat as me
and i'm only here because they paid me last year so i trusted them.

well
next thing is the legal route
and of course the internet
when i have a little spare time this week i'll hit the forums and the blogs
it'll go nowhere i know but i have to do something

frank said he wouldn't play for them again,
and i'll talk to tina at knee deep to warn her too.

perhaps I can persuade people to sign a petition
or something like that


what a palarver !

[Jay Pace]

Might be an idea to get in touch with all the booking agencies. Sure they'd be interested to learn that they don't pay.

And let the organisers know that you'll be advising all said booking agencies that they have a reputation for not paying.

If no booking agencies will work with them, thats the end of creamfields.

[Darkmode]

You should inform all of the music mags like DJ MAG, IDJ,MIX MAG & M8 about it I'm sure they would print in their mags to inform people about it

[mattboyslim]

You should inform all of the music mags like DJ MAG, IDJ,MIX MAG & M8 about it I'm sure they would print in their mags to inform people about it

i doubt it. fingers in pies and all that

[RDR]

i doubt it. fingers in pies and all that

i doubt it too.

but who knows, its better than doing nothing.

[DannyBlack]

well i sent them the last pleasant ( ish ) email today
last chance ....etc etc ....

from now in it'll be legal and demanding
i signed with the polish so not much chance of getting money out of them
but it might be possible to annoy the english side so much that they just sort me out to get me out of their hair.

frank kvitta played with me that night at cream
and i met him again this weekend in austria.

so i asked him what happened to him and this is what he told me.

he asked and asked all night on the ( soaking wet ) site until finally someone took notice and told him to hang on.
so he did, until the end of the event. ( 2 hours after his set finished )

and finally after more confusion and phone calls
they tracked down the guy with the cash
who paid him, in polish zloty.

of course frank was expecting euros
and it meant he had to change it at the airport and he lost a fair bit in the exchange. ( 50 euros down he said )

but the main thing is
this is cream, a big organization ,
and they didn't have money ready for him , they must've paid him from the door takings ( which i was told they were still waiting for 2 weeks ago ! another lie !)

and paying a DJ in zloty is really unprofessional of them don't you think?
but at least he got his money right?

truth is , if he hadn't really hassled he would be in the same boat as me
and i'm only here because they paid me last year so i trusted them.

well
next thing is the legal route
and of course the internet
when i have a little spare time this week i'll hit the forums and the blogs
it'll go nowhere i know but i have to do something

frank said he wouldn't play for them again,
and i'll talk to tina at knee deep to warn her too.

perhaps I can persuade people to sign a petition
or something like that


what a palarver !

check out yer PM's when you get a chance mate.

[davethedrummer]

well ...good news

I got a phone call from cream UK
and they said thats it's all been sorted

No idea if it was because i threatened solicitors
and general internet/magazine slagging
Or if they just decided to do it anyway.
and no idea if the UK people paid or the polish ( i don't care anyway )

I'm still waiting for the money to actually show up in my account
( it was sent thursday/ yesterday )
but the phone call sounded genuine so fingers crossed.

thanks to all of you for your support
it's really helped havng a fairly discreet place ( by internet standards )
to come and sound off, and some of your advice was very useful.
and cheers for the offers of running articles about it etc..
it's nice to know there is a network of people who do actually look out for each other.

it's all about respect isn't it?
and there's plenty of that here obviously.

nice one peeps

h

[Athar]

uffff

hope this story will be end soon and you will find your money in your bank mate.
i feel really stupid is that things happen in my home country (not only here?) and hope will be never happen again, please no.

anyway be carefull guys everytime when you will goin play somewhere and you dont know well the promoters, yes, trusting and respect is the most important here

[force]

well ...good news

I got a phone call from cream UK
and they said thats it's all been sorted

No idea if it was because i threatened solicitors
and general internet/magazine slagging
Or if they just decided to do it anyway.
and no idea if the UK people paid or the polish ( i don't care anyway )

I'm still waiting for the money to actually show up in my account
( it was sent thursday/ yesterday )
but the phone call sounded genuine so fingers crossed.

thanks to all of you for your support
it's really helped havng a fairly discreet place ( by internet standards )
to come and sound off, and some of your advice was very useful.
and cheers for the offers of running articles about it etc..
it's nice to know there is a network of people who do actually look out for each other.

it's all about respect isn't it?
and there's plenty of that here obviously.

nice one peeps

h

Yeah, well it should never have gone this far in the first place, especially with an organisation as big as cream. Cream uk should have paid you themselves (out of goodwill if anything) and then taken it up with their polish outfit.

I take it you wont be offering your services to them again?

[DannyBlack]

I'm glad there is some form of resolution on this H, fingers crossed you get your money. There is a great network of people out there innit, wicked that is.

Safe as mate.

[acidguru]

.....it's all about respect isn't it?
and there's plenty of that here obviously.

nice one peeps

h....
Unfortunately one of the very few places where respect is shown..
Well,most of the time i might add..

[DannyBlack]

You recon mate? I think in general there is a lot of respect in here.

[tocsin]

i doubt it too.

but who knows, its better than doing nothing.

They won't deny an ad. Only downside is that costs money. But, if one was able to communicate with the other artists who played to see who else got screwed over, in addition to possibly exploring connects to find artists connected to scenes that the Creamfields folk considered big enough to sign on to the ad in support, you'd have some big leverage there. Perhaps something worth exploring if the other approaches end up being dead ends and your check doesn't show up. But, hopefully they stick to their word in the most recent communications.

[djfilthmonger]

I hope this works out mate.. god damn creamfields!

[davethedrummer]

money in the bank
it's a done deal

pint anyone?

[MARK ANXIOUS]

BRILLIANT MATE!!!!!! WELL DONE!!!!!!

I knew you'd do it. I think this is a lesson in being tough with the bigger more commercial organizations. there's a certain one that i play for who hadn't payed me quite a big cheque last year after 6 months of chasing. chrissi told them i wouldn't be turning up for their next gig 2 days before, and they panicked. cash was in the bank the next day.

another funny story was a huge commercial festival this year. about half way through the gig, word got round that none of the dj's were getting paid for a certain tent (they'd all tried) and so everyone stood together and threatened to stop the tent and the music. took a while but within about 2 hours, we had the cash backstage! RESULT!

kinda feels good when you stand up against the giants eh. good on ya h.

[davethedrummer]

yeah thanks mark
got it in the end.

it did really get me down for a bit
but i kept hassling even though they stopped replying
and it did work , if i hadn't done it i am SURE i wouldn't have got a bean.

i wanted to mention it here because there was a thread a while ago about DJ wages.
and there were a couple of posts telling us professional DJs to stop whining and get a "proper" job

and i have to say that thread/comments really did piss me off quite a lot.
so it was partly that , and also a useful lesson to anyone else who might find themselves in similar circumstances.

i have to say also that the accounts person from cream UK
did actually call me direct, and apologize for the situation
and they hoped it wouldn't ruin any workings we may have in the future.

so to me it does look like cream uk stepped up to the plate
and took the rap.
so i have to respect them for that.

[DirtyHard]

money in the bank
it's a done deal

pint anyone?

TOP ****ING RESULT

[DannyBlack]

pint anyone?

Not relavent to the thread but, I('m stuck in work and all I can picture in my head is the beer garden, a pint of Hoegarrden and a tequilla chaser. The sun is out and I'm crammed in a call center dealing with very angry people....


Anyway! Henry, nice one mate- fair play to you I'm glad you got the money back. Hopefullythis will make them think twice about pulling this shit in the future with other DJs.

Pint, would love one.

[S.L.U.T Promotions]

thats gay!!!!...i'm a promoter and the deal is pay the artist upfront at least half of the artist fee then the other half on arrival for the gig...then a few beers...and get the shit rockin!....cock sucks!!!...crimefields more like it....send the boys round henry!