Linking soundcards via firewire / spdif?

[Si.]

Hows it going?

We have an m-audio firewire 1814 and a mackie onyx. Want to use the 8 ins on the 1814 for a machinedrum and the onyx for the rest of our gear - is there a way to combine the 2 so its recognised as 1 soundcard or can you set up live to read 2 soundcards? Running XP / live 7.10

Help much appreciated!

[stjohn]

spdif - ull need the correct cable. then id say its pretty standard linking the 2.

have u checked the manual(s)?

[Si.]

Yeah, couldnt find much - didnt really look properly tho!

[rhythmtech]

actually with spdif you'll need 2 cables. one for each direction.

[Si.]

Cool so if I set it up so 1814 is the "master" (does it work that way?), will the 1220 be recognised in live as a single, extra stereo input, without replacing the 8ins on the soundcard already? Or is it recognised as a full set of extra inputs?

[rhythmtech]

sorry i mis-read your first post. theres no way of linking the two on one machine as your sequencer can only run off one card at a time.

the only way to run two is with another machine and midi-over-lan or vst system link

if you have another machine then there is also the fxteleport option. this only requires 1 soundcard and a LAN home network.

[Si.]

shit! Dont think the desk has spdif... (its not my desk and I dont know it really)

What are the extra firewire ports on the 1814 for? In the manual it says you can connect it to external audio hardware such as a desk?

[Si.]

"The Onyx FireWire card features two 6-pin FireWire connectors that each supply all 16 channels plus the L/R mix. Having dual connectors allows you to place the Onyx mixer anywhere within a chain of FireWire-equipped devices."

How does that work so?

[rhythmtech]

yes you can connect your interface to a desk as a multi-out preamp. basically you can route all the audio from the card to the onyx thru the firewire port - but you need to have paid for the firewire option with the onyx.

but with the onyx theres no need to even think about having 2 interfaces and how they work, all you need to do is group a few channels together and route everything to the desk - remember that you have 16 channels on an onyx. with a bit of clever grouping in your sequencer thats more than enough.

try this:

group 1 - kicks and bass
group 2 - hats
group 3 - synths
group 4 - percussion

etc

thats your main four groups covered and you still have 12 channells of audio free.

[stjohn]

sorry i mis-read your first post. theres no way of linking the two on one machine as your sequencer can only run off one card at .

but with spdif, do all the spdif channels not show up on the master card? i thought it did

[rhythmtech]

no, not as far as i know. i tried it before with two differant m-audio cards but only one would ever show up in the sequencer. you need drivers to run your card and spdif cant share drivers between 2 pieces of hardware - this is why it works perfectly with 2 systems as both interfaces have seperate drivers running.

spdif is just a digital link between the two. basically a sync.

[stjohn]

but with the onyx theres no need to even think about having 2 interfaces .


ye. thats what i said to philly, si.

[stjohn]

basically a sync.

a sync and audio transfer too... so u can just pick up the channels as audio, without drivers or anything needed.

[rhythmtech]

you cant run the second interface in the first place without drivers. so while spdif can pick up the audio, unless you have two sets of drivers running within your sequencer (which is impossible) it wont make a differance because the second interface isnt running.

hence the slave machine being needed.

[rhythmtech]

think about it. if this was possible why would manufacturers make differant size interfaces - why not just make 1 and make it modular like they do with some consoles.

[stjohn]

im 90% sure ive done it with 2 different cards. we deffo had 2 for a surround sound recording, whether or not they were the same card i dunno. but they were connected with SPDIF.

could have been done with some workaround tho... 2 machines, or a load of analogue routing or something. anyways i havnt slept yet again so i cant think


so im conceding :)

[rhythmtech]

actually i digress. you can do it on a mac with certain OS and core audio - but it has to be a specific soundcard aswell - i think certain models of focusrite do it.

your sequencer can still only see 1 card but you use an "aggregate device editor" to increase the I/Os - like i said this is only on certain mac OS's

[Si.]

Pretty bad design - you'd think you could do it handy enough in this day and age!

:)

I could use sequencer to route out stuff but I want to record and process all 8 outs of MD separately and use the desk for the rest of the gear. The onyx 1220 has only 12 channels, 4 of which are stereo-linked... I could group md outs down to 4 sections I guess but just wanted to know if there was a handy way of doing it...

one of these (http://www.thomann.de/ie/behringer_px3000_ultrapatch_pro_patchbay.htm) me thinks!

http://images4.thomann.de/pics/prod/175248.jpg

[rhythmtech]

no no no no!!!!!!

do not touch anything by behringer that passes audio thru it. while fine for midi control or other non-audio apps, behringer have the worst audio signal path ever!!

spend a little extra on some quality.

[Si.]

hmmmm! Maybe this (http://www.thomann.de/ie/neutrik_nys_spp_patchbay.htm) so?

http://images4.thomann.de/pics/prod/134159.jpg

[rhythmtech]

y exactly do you want one? they are going to do exactly the same thing as routing out from your sequencer.

when you set up an aux channel on your sequencer and route individual tracks to it you can still process those tracks seperatly. you also have the added advantage of processing them as a group if you like (ie drum group compression)

i think you're looking too hard at what is a very simple solution. the more variables you add the more chances to get things wrong.

keep it simple. you have a good interface and a good desk. dont comprimise the audio signal with crap gear when its not needed. i understand the want to go outboard but going outboard is only an advantage IF you have quality outboard. a quality vst compressor or eq will ALWAYS sound better than a cheap outboard one.

try think outside the box on this. remember up to fairly recently we all had to bounce tracks to make more room for other tracks on a desk - a true analogue desk is limited in channel count anyway. you have firewire to your desk and a seperate interface. sit down with a pen and paper & draw out differant routing configurations and try figure out the best way to make the most of that nice set-up that you have.

[stjohn]

do u really need all of those routings Si? just go with what you have... theres more than enough options there!

i still think SPDIF possible tho. we were on PC when we did it.

[rhythmtech]

it is possible to have 2 cards daisy chained rory BUT not to select both drivers at the same time (which is where you run into a brickwall)

im not 100% sure about using two as a duplex (1 card for out and 1 for in) - never tried that.

but i know that spdif cant pick up a second cards audio without the second cards drivers running.

just go into your sequencer and have a look at your options. you can nver pick more than 1.

unless theres some modular interface im not aware of.

maybe you ran them as I/O in duplex?

[rhythmtech]

actually im sorry rory.

im thinking USB audio all along here.

it may be a distinct possibility with firewire interfaces of the same model thru spdif.

[Si.]

I just want a fast way to record in 8 ins from md, 6 ins from virus, synths, hardware fx etc etc. Fran was saying it would be a good idea to get one rory?

We have a decent card now and its too slow working as we are. Just want to improve the environment in there. I definitely don't want to downgrade audio quality though!

I am the first to admit I am new to patchbays but I understand how they work - just never had the need for them before.

How can I improve the workflow in there? Sick of stopping every few mins to record every channel on md seperately, then doing virus, etc... Also would like to start using outboard fx gear...

[Si.]

mackie desk doesnt have spdif as far as I know, only a firewire extension

we have an m-audio firewire 1814 already, trying to incorporate the desk into the set up as another bunch of ins...

Not same manufacturer, let alone same model! Thats the prob...

[rhythmtech]

well if its for loads of differant inputs then thats a differant story - a good quality patch bay is the way forward.

or

if you're using synths like (the virus) that have vst editors you can go down that route and not worry about input.

[stjohn]

its possible.. our lecturer set it up :|

**** it tho... i dont think si needs it setup like that anyway. the onyx on its or even the fw 1814 on its own suits grand!

id be worried about the crazy bass, the millions of early reflections and the dodgy pc setup in the studio. dont give yourself more work

[Si.]

Yeah - virus seems to be limited to 3 stereo outs when connected to usb though? I dont know, its not my synth and I'm still figuring it out (its a beast!)

[rhythmtech]

i dont think si needs it setup like that anyway

i agree. i think its just making things messy.

SI, have you thought about a slave machine? run the master thru the desk and then a laptop thru the interface and sync the two with midi-over-lan - very simple to set up.

[Si.]

i dont think si needs it setup like that anyway.

Who are you to tell me what I do and dont need :)

Na you're right though, I'm letting laziness take over! No problem recording the md parts just by muting and unmuting... Just takes longer!

Slaving machines could achieve what we were looking for there but to be honest musically the results mightnt be as good... I mean its not like we'll be using everything all at once and then recording it in all at once in one take...

Thanks for the help lads! Still considering the patch bay but thinking a good option would be to stick to using 1 soundcard for the moment!

Si

[stjohn]

sorry yea i didnt mean it like that :)
patchbay would be nice tho yea!!

[herman]

If your recording from a Onyx via firewire you might want to check into whether it sends the audio pre or post fader/eq I know some of there desks only send pre rendering them pretty much useless if your using it for anything more than a multi input interface. They can be modded but it's not an easy job.