LIMITING

[tracatak]

CAN some please help describe how limiting works. and why it makes schranz or hard techno pump more? when to use it (after compression and distortion or before etc)

maybe a quick example ..like add kick on top of loop..distort then limit..but what to do with limiter? do i place in only on the kick or loop or on some sorta master channel? thanks.....sorry if this is a bit confusing

[rhythmtech]

a limiter raises the level of the audio to a certain pre-defined "limit" - anything that tries to rise above that limit will get clipped. when you really push a drumloop you get some audible distortions happening. this is fed into a sidechain compressor with a clean kick underneath (probably the input on the SC compressor).

never tried to make schranz but i would imagine thats one way of using a limiter in it.

[j_s]

compression is the way to get that pump
you want it over most, if not all, of the drums. or even over the whole master.
generally you'll want a pretty high threshold & ratio.
you want the attack to take effect over the first bit of kick and then release before the next kick hits...

[The_Laughing_Man]

Compression and limiting is almost the same thing.

I limiter differs in that it has an infinite ratio, meaning nothing is allowed above the threshold level.
Therefore you can then raise your levels to this limit and any transients will be crushed, or in the case of an auto gain limiter, it will raise the level to compensate for the gain reduction.

The mix will pump if there is a hard limit over it if the kick drum is the largest signal within the mix. As the kick hits, the limiter cuts in and everything is crushed, the kick, being louder, cuts through.

Generally the infinite ratio will cause distortion, as the soundwaves going past the limit are chopped off, though with modern limiters, distortio can be avoided up to a point.

There are serveral ways to use this effect to make schranz.

One way would be to place a hard limit, or high compression over the mix, this will definitely get that pump effect, however the mix will be effected in nasty ways, the eq balance will be ruined, you`ll get audio jumps at breaks, and more complications.

A better way would be to run the channels you want to be crushed hard, into a bus with a limiter, compressor over it (sidechained to the kick drum would be even better).
This way you don`t have to crush the life out of everything, and can have the kick coming through clean, as well as say some hats and maybe percussion you want to be more punchy.

I would then place some compression (not limit) over the whole mix with a medium ratio and no more than 3db of gain reduction (this will make the whole mix pump, in a subtle way, and cleanly, to add to the overall effect).

The Key to achieving pump is tuning the attack and release of the compressor.

To start with, set the attack as fast as possible, then set the release as long as possible.
Slowly pull the release back, watching the gain reduction meter, until the meter drops back to zero just before each kick. Then fine tune around here for personal taste of the groove.
Finally pull back the attack until the kick starts to sound full again.

This is just basic advice, once you`ve got it down, experiment like hell.

For schranz you might try additional distortion, bit crushing and ring modulation for extra grit.

[tracatak]

::standing ovation:: thanks..that was very clear..im gonna go experiment more...ill let you know my results

thanks a lot

[tracatak]

which is fast attack 1 ms or 100 ms...i am confused....im thinking the 1 is fast

[The_Laughing_Man]

which is fast attack 1 ms or 100 ms...i am confused....im thinking the 1 is fast

A fast attack is as low as possible
so
1ms or less

[tracatak]

ok thanks

so what are some examples of high ratio and threshold also

[tracatak]

and isn't it bad to place things such as distortion, compressor etc on the main mixer channel? it totally beefs up the sound way more then any bus or other chanel..the effects are totally increased when i place anything on the master chanel. i know this will cause everything to be effected but I cant get it to be that beefy otherwise.. any tips?

thanks

[The_Laughing_Man]

Ok, well, really, saying high threashold is a little misleading, what I should have said was high gain reduction, as the threshold efect is dependant on input level.
So, if the gain reduction meter is reading high levels ie more than 6db, then you are looking at a heavy setting.
High ratio?
hmm, subjective I suppose, but I would say 6:1 and up is starting to get pretty hard.

No I wouldn`t suggest distortion etc on the master bus, but on a group bus it can be controlled more easily.

[tracatak]

thank you..makes sense