Finaly fake live acts are beeing exposed!

[Spark]

www.deadact.com

couldnt let it by my side to post it here..

:)

[...Dave...]

haha great site:lol:

[MARK ANXIOUS]

wicked site!

[fukktry]

these vids rocks hahahahha

[djfilthmonger]

ha ha what a dope

[Patrick DSP]

been talking about this site on the live pa board. it's great isn't it?

[weekender_veteran]

I'm shocked!! :eek:
does this sort of thing happen alot???

i've been to some awesome nights out in the past couple of years, and if i found out that some 'live sets' ive heard/seen were pre-recorded, it would really damage my faith in dance music, I mean really Gut me!!

I hope none of you lot could even think about pulling a stunt like this.


I shall be watching you all very very closely next time i go out. :tongue:

[aNaLpLeAsEr]

Producing music is much much much harder than DJing. I don't get how we can knock producers and not DJing itself.

I don't give a **** if its not live. I know how much effort and commitment goes into producing and how any ****ing dick can match a few beats on some records which in many cases ain't even theirs.

There's some warped views on things.

[Patrick DSP]

Preparing a live pa is pretty difficult too. it's completely different than producing music. it's one thing to write a 5 min monster, it's another to write/semi-write a 60, 90 or 120min monster.

but "faking" a live pa like these artists have are in short cheating the crowd. They paid for a Live, active, "happening in front of them" performance and not some monkey pressing play on a DAT or CD. At least most performers that cheat just dj their full tracks in ableton, but the ones on this site show fully planned out sets (usually).

from my understanding, this happens a lot in the psy-trance world, and understandably so, psy-trance is extremely layered. maybe the crowds that go to psy-trance parties know they're just listening to a modern day version of a cd, maybe not. but it's good to see a site like this point out that you can't pull the wool over everyone's eyes.

FAKE'S WILL ALWAYS BE FOUND OUT! (whether or not people care is another topic.)

a fake live pa is no different than a fake dj set...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m01g4XnC_qU

my $0.02

ps- on a self promotion note, keep your eyes peeled as i finish up my mastering class and live pa setup and performance videos using Ableton Live 8, courtesy of AudioSchool, Moscow. =] </spam>

[DannyBlack]

There is no such thing as a live PA though. It's all faked. You're all goddamn liars.

[Patrick DSP]

There is no such thing as a live PA though. It's all faked. You're all goddamn liars.

damn it, you saw the strings, didn't you? I'm gutted.

[aNaLpLeAsEr]

a fake live pa is no different than a fake dj set...




you are too hung up on the word 'live'

To say what you did, see quote, is just ridiculous. Maybe you have never tried production yourself.

DJing is such a different thing to music production.

I know that when I go and see a'live' PA the chances are it is not live. But at least the guy that actually wrote the ****ing music is up there getting the credit and not some jumped up little cunt behind the decks STEALING the credit.

Was you really that naive in the first place to think that it was all live?

[Patrick DSP]

you are too hung up on the word 'live'

To say what you did, see quote, is just ridiculous. Maybe you have never tried production yourself.

DJing is such a different thing to music production.

I know that when I go and see a'live' PA the chances are it is not live. But at least the guy that actually wrote the ****ing music is up there getting the credit and not some jumped up little cunt behind the decks STEALING the credit.

Was you really that naive in the first place to think that it was all live?

I see what you're getting at. yes, playing live is a relative term. but, i wouldn't consider playing full tracks or full mixes in ableton/cubase/logic equal to composing and arranging loops, samples and sequences in real time. (yes i know many live pa's including my own that do just that) but that's my opinion.

But there's no need for personal digs my good man. i think there's more than enough sources out there to prove I'm far from talking out of my ass on this subject. ;)

I will agree that credit still needs to be given to the producer, it is difficult. but credit shouldn't be given to the producer posing as a performer and that's what this site is exposing.

[Patrick DSP]

damn edit button timed out...

just wanted to add...


DeadAct.com is an online archive of videos found in the public domain that show electronic performers blatantly faking their "live set".

To qualify as a Dead Act, the performer must have pre set out their performance in such a way that if they were to drop dead, the set would keep playing on as normal. Bonus points for fake knob tweaking, failed attempts to play real instruments , and good orgasm faces.

[aNaLpLeAsEr]

ITs too easy to jump on the bandwagon with the current vogue.

The effort DJs put in is so ****ing lame in comparison. So many DJs make out they are doing something when they arn't. No one is bashing them. Its just pathetic.

I am not having a dig at you personally. I don't know you. I am having a dig at what your saying.

[davethedrummer]

anyway , there's nothing wrong with being fake

but i hate these " fake live acts " exposing themselves to everyone

it's disgusting and has to stop.

[TechMouse]

anyway , there's nothing wrong with being fake

but i hate these " fake live acts " exposing themselves to everyone

it's disgusting and has to stop.
Careful Henry... you stop dropping your trousers and you'll have to start dropping your fees.

[rhythmtech]

Maybe you have never tried production yourself.

DJing is such a different thing to music production.


:lol::lol:

maybe you should research who ou're talking to before making silly assumptions about Pat :wink:

[MITA]

maybe thats on purpose Baz ~

[TechMouse]

:lol::lol:

maybe you should research who ou're talking to before making silly assumptions about Pat :wink:

:lol:

Anyone ever see that thread on t'internet where some guy was lecturing Aphex Twin on analogue synths, absolutely oblivious to who he was talking to?

[Spark]

:lol:

Anyone ever see that thread on t'internet where some guy was lecturing Aphex Twin on analogue synths, absolutely oblivious to who he was talking to?

No, got a link? :)

[rhythmtech]

maybe thats on purpose Baz ~
the conspiracy thickens :eek:

[aNaLpLeAsEr]

maybe thats on purpose Baz ~



;)

[djfilthmonger]

vinyl is the way forward guys I said it before and Ill say it again. faking a dj set is like going up on stage and putting on a cd saying here's one I made earlier. horse crap .

[MITA]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2070/1778551636_2dc056a777.jpg

[TechMouse]

No, got a link? :)
Just had a quick hunt - looks like the message board in question is no more.

In a nutshell, some guy was banging on about VST being as good if not better than real analogue hardware, and a user called "analord" was saying - you know - hang on a minute, VST is pretty good but even the best algorithms don't come close to emulating all the subtle nuances of real analogue circuitry. Cue the original guy saying "well, who the **** are you? you don't know shit etc."

A very entertaining read.

[aNaLpLeAsEr]

vinyl is the way forward guys I said it before and Ill say it again. faking a dj set is like going up on stage and putting on a cd saying here's one I made earlier. horse crap .

Heres one someone else made earlier. I am going to now pretend that DJing is really hard and I am so talented and special and should be put up on a pedestal for all to wank over.

[MITA]

^^

he is Deadmau5

[djfilthmonger]

Heres one someone else made earlier. I am going to now pretend that DJing is really hard and I am so talented and special and should be put up on a pedestal for all to wank over.

Djing and wanking at the same time is very hard mate trust me I do it all the time. sometimes when the track is about to kick in I spray my load all over me decks .
If that aint talent i dont wat is

[djfilthmonger]

^^

he is Deadmau5

ha ha.

[aNaLpLeAsEr]

Been out the country for 5 years and come back and have to ask, what the **** happened? What the **** happened to techno and whats all this psy shit?

[MITA]

Djing and wanking at the same time is very hard mate trust me I do it all the time. sometimes when the track is about to kick in I spray my load all over me decks .
If that aint talent i dont wat is

:yup: is true~








:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[markandrew]

so don t dj and don t play other peoples tunes because you didn t produce it why was there mailing lists to djs most producers like djs playing their tunes :hmmm:

[djfilthmonger]

so don t dj and don t play other peoples tunes because you didn t produce it why was there mailing lists to djs most producers like djs playing their tunes :hmmm:

exactly promotion and that.

[markandrew]

exactly promotion and that.

i smell a windup here :smile:

[aNaLpLeAsEr]

When you compare the effort that goes into producing compared to what a DJ actually does, its a night and day difference. DJ's get way more credit than they deserve. But no one is bashing them. I am not saying **** DJs off. I am saying lets get some perspective on this. Everyone is too quick to jump on the bandwagon and slate this live thing. Its electronic music for **** sake. What are you expecting? Sometimes its the promoter that bills it as being live and not the choice of the artist.

I own a few records of Patricks (Cluster / Hydraulix). I rate him as a producer. But I am not here to be a brown nosing little groupie slag. I can see he has enough of them already.

:)

[djfilthmonger]

It all comes out of a speaker at the end of the day . but I would feel a little cheated or dirty if I knew some guy/gal has just pressed play on a cd and stood there dancing to it on the stage thinking he is the shit .

[TechMouse]

I own a few records of Patricks
Do you DJ with them?

[aNaLpLeAsEr]

It all comes out of a speaker at the end of the day . but I would feel a little cheated or dirty if I knew some guy/gal has just pressed play on a cd and stood there dancing to it on the stage thinking he is the shit .

Djs do that all the time :)

If the crowd are getting off on it then the guy that wrote it is the shit.

[aNaLpLeAsEr]

Do you DJ with them?

No, not currently

But I am a member of the PRS ;)

[TechMouse]

Djs do that all the time :)

If the crowd are getting off on it then the guy that wrote it is the shit.
Fair comment to a point, but you could say the same about the Tiësticle or whatever. His tunes get spanked out to massive crowds who all seem to get off on it in some way or another.

At the end of the day, when it comes to rave music everyone plays a part - from the promoters who put it all together, the producers who craft the beats, the DJs who play them, the artists who play live sets right down to the people who pay their hard earned to come boogie.

There is a weird cult of DJ worship that stems from the fact that the mainstream music machine doesn't cope well with anything that doesn't have obvious figureheads, but really - who gives a shit?

If you're having fun doing what you're doing then **** everyone else and their opinions.

I was DJing at a house party last week, and some eastern European guy was giving me his 2p about how I really ought to be playing some minimal, and that hard techno was "so 2004", whatever the **** that means. He then proceeded to give me a lecture about how to use my own mixer, claiming he was a professional sound engineer. Frankly I just found it amusing.

[TechMouse]

But I am a member of the PRS ;)
If you're a DJ shouldn't that be the MCPS?

[aNaLpLeAsEr]

If you're a DJ shouldn't that be the MCPS?

Same thing now m8

[aNaLpLeAsEr]

Fair comment to a point, but you could say the same about the Tiësticle or whatever. His tunes get spanked out to massive crowds who all seem to get off on it in some way or another.

At the end of the day, when it comes to rave music everyone plays a part - from the promoters who put it all together, the producers who craft the beats, the DJs who play them, the artists who play live sets right down to the people who pay their hard earned to come boogie.

There is a weird cult of DJ worship that stems from the fact that the mainstream music machine doesn't cope well with anything that doesn't have obvious figureheads, but really - who gives a shit?

If you're having fun doing what you're doing then **** everyone else and their opinions.

I was DJing at a house party last week, and some eastern European guy was giving me his 2p about how I really ought to be playing some minimal, and that hard techno was "so 2004", whatever the **** that means. He then proceeded to give me a lecture about how to use my own mixer, claiming he was a professional sound engineer. Frankly I just found it amusing.

I am quite a bit more tolerant of music genre now, more so than when I was younger and obsessed with one genre etc. but hey we all grow up. As for being told what to play, I would have chinned him. But from experience he might well have had a point with regards to the mixer. I am quite pissed by how someone who cant hold a beat or understand something as simple as gain staging is allowed near a mixer.

You may well not be one of those, so that isn't directed at you.

[TechMouse]

I am quite a bit more tolerant of music genre now, more so than when I was younger and obsessed with one genre etc. but hey we all grow up. As for being told what to play, I would have chinned him. But from experience he might well have had a point with regards to the mixer. I am quite pissed by how someone who cant hold a beat or understand something as simple as gain staging is allowed near a mixer.

You may well not be one of those, so that isn't directed at you.

:lol:

Well, I hope I don't fit into that category. Even so, I wouldn't dream of going up to a DJ at any kind of event (house party, warehouse party, club, whatever) and try to tell them how to do their job.

That said, I did have to reign in one of the D&B DJs last week who seemed to think that Red = Good. Down on the mixer, up on the amp... sounds better, less chance of blowing the amp. But in fairness, it was my mixer and my mate's rig.

[davethedrummer]

Djs do that all the time :)

If the crowd are getting off on it then the guy that wrote it is the shit.

not strictly true mate
the dj and his technique and his programming skills on the night
will set a track in perfect context ( hopefully! ) so the punters get the most from it
it isn't just a case of stick anything on and hope it's ok.
or a case of completely submitting to the track you are playing either
some tracks ONLY come to life when you get stuck in and dj/mix them properly
get them wrong and they suck

how does that work?

[djfilthmonger]

Djs do that all the time :)

If the crowd are getting off on it then the guy that wrote it is the shit.

well I really like djing and you definetly like wat ur doing. I dont really see the point in deciding which is better. at end of the day Im going to keep doing wat i do . I do like messing ard with producing tracks but its a secondary hobby for me right now

[TechMouse]

not strictly true mate
the dj and his technique and his programming skills on the night
will set a track in perfect context ( hopefully! ) so the punters get the most from it
it isn't just a case of stick anything on and hope it's ok.
or a case of completely submitting to the track you are playing either
some tracks ONLY come to life when you get stuck in and dj/mix them properly
get them wrong and they suck

how does that work?

Bingo.

Techno can be dull as anything when it's unmixed.

It's definitely a style where the difference between a good DJ and a bad DJ is much more pronounced.

[aNaLpLeAsEr]

not strictly true mate
the dj and his technique and his programming skills on the night
will set a track in perfect context ( hopefully! ) so the punters get the most from it
it isn't just a case of stick anything on and hope it's ok.
or a case of completely submitting to the track you are playing either
some tracks ONLY come to life when you get stuck in and dj/mix them properly
get them wrong and they suck

how does that work?

I agree, and even more so with techno.

I have deliberately exaggerated things to make a point. Just trying to fuel a bit of discussion.

For me personally, I am more concerned about going to a party and having to endure poor mixing skills than how live an act/artist really is.

[TechMouse]

For me personally, I am more concerned about going to a party and having to endure poor mixing skills...
Just go to better parties.

Works for me.

[aNaLpLeAsEr]

Just go to better parties.

Works for me.

Where m8

I been away for 5 years. What happened? I am in London.

I went to something before xmas in Brixton, up Coldharbour lane. A few guys from Kinetic, but honestly what a crock of shit. What happened?

[markandrew]

If you're having fun doing what you're doing then **** everyone else and their opinions.



on the nail :smile:

[TechMouse]

Where m8

I been away for 5 years. What happened? I am in London.

I went to something before xmas in Brixton, up Coldharbour lane. A few guys from Kinetic, but honestly what a crock of shit. What happened?

Off the top of my head...

Under the Stairs at the 333 in Shoreditch next Friday should be a good laugh.

Keep an eye on the Malfaiteurs lot - they know how to throw a good bash.

Some decent warehouse parties out Hackney Wick way with reasonable frequency. I think there's one on April 17th, but unfortunately I'm out of the country.

Nuclear Free Zone always looks good - haven't made it down yet, but I shall endeavour to do so as and when I can. I hear good things.

[aNaLpLeAsEr]

Nice one TechMouse.

Do you know what happened with tribe of munt?

[TechMouse]

Do you know what happened with tribe of munt?
Pass. Haven't seen or heard anything in a while.

[The_Laughing_Man]

DULL unimaginative static Techno can be dull as anything when it's unmixed.




Corrected

[TechMouse]

Corrected
Note the use of the word "can" in that sentence.

There's some excellent standalone Techno out there.

It's in the minority though.

[The_Laughing_Man]

too many people being lazy and making dj tools that`s why
lack of ideas

[TechMouse]

Meh, DJ tools have their place. I use them often enough.

There's a time and a place for everything, if it's of a decent enough quality.

[speed-it-up]

Nice one TechMouse.

Do you know what happened with tribe of munt?

not done a party for over a year

[The_Laughing_Man]

Meh, DJ tools have their place. I use them often enough.

There's a time and a place for everything, if it's of a decent enough quality.

the day for DJ tool swill end with vinyl

then those kind of people will just have to release loops, instead of 6 mins of the same thing

[clubsynthetic]

TBH if it doesn't matter if its shite DJing or a fake live set, they are both just as shit IMO.

But false advertising gets my goat and that happens with so called "live" sets. This doesn't happen as much with DJ, as the basics tend to be easy so folks can do it - but it IS what it is billed as.

and its 50/50 as to whether i could make a great live set or gain technique on the decks like Q-Bert with practice. BOTH CAN BE AS HARD OR AS EASY AS YOU WANT.

I would much rather watch a very good DJ than a mediocre live set.

[MITA]

well said

[SlavikSvensk]

the day for DJ tool swill end with vinyl

then those kind of people will just have to release loops, instead of 6 mins of the same thing

it's still just a loop then, isn't it? whether it comes in 4 bar or 200 bar form...

[The_Laughing_Man]

yes but a loop is a loop, not 6 mins of the same thing pretending to be a release

[SlavikSvensk]

true, true. was just being pedantic anyways :lol:

[The_Laughing_Man]

oooh you naughty little tinker!!

[SlavikSvensk]

someone's got to do it, and we can't just rely on techmouse all the time...

[DarkYoung]

someone's got to do it, and we can't just rely on techmouse all the time...

surreal

[TechMouse]

someone's got to do it, and we can't just rely on techmouse all the time...
It does wear me out, it has to be said.

[SlavikSvensk]

i'm here for you, buddy. i'll help carry the load...

[eppertheleper]

Okay, would someone please explain to me how an Ableton set is "live" or "dead". Is the difference that the dead set has placed all of the tracks in advance, whereas a live one is picking them on the fly?

That really seems mostly like splitting hairs to me when you're talking about Ableton, when all you'd really have to do to get from one to the other is, rather than actually laying down the tracks into a long set and hitting play, you lay them all down at home beforehand, then take notes on your setlist. Once you get there, drop them all in at the appropriate time and, voila!

1. Pat DSP at 000
2. Concrete DJz at 112
3. Industrialyzer at 180
4. The Advent at 224

and so on...

You're really only adding about four minutes of work between the "live" set and a "dead" one. I guess you could also record all the EQ changes, effects, and cross fading into a "dead" set as well, but why? Is it laziness? Lack of confidence? Is somebody else doing the work for you a la Milli Vanilli?

I don't know. It just seems to me that Ableton makes it SOOO easy already, why would anyone go the extra step of pre-programming the entire set beforehand? Sad.

[The_Laughing_Man]

I don`t know about making it easy, I have a much harder time playing my live pa than I did DJing 3 decks.

Running 8 channels of audio and then 4 vsti synths and drum machines.
Each channel with it`s own filters and in some cases effects to control, then there is the mapped controls to the vsti as well as control over the master channel effects, all this and trying to effectively transition between tunes in a similar way to a DJ makes pretty hard work.

I know DSP is very similar.

[DJPAUZE]

I don`t know about making it easy, I have a much harder time playing my live pa than I did DJing 3 decks.


That's because your an old fart Steve. jk.

I have seen a bit of video from your live and it looks quite complex I must say... Pretty damn close to a regular rig setup.

There are quite a few people doing the full track thing and quite a few playing loops with no controllers at all. I am not going to say it's easy, it really depends on what approach you want to take....

[force]

i'm here for you, buddy. i'll help swallow your load...



???

[clubsynthetic]

synthesis (drums and sounds) together with being able to respond to a crowd and take your music in any direction you feel like is live even if you have some of your synths automated. With what i would say is true live it can be changed on the fly at any given moment in your set. Being able to change the body of any sound, individual drums, effects, structure, rerouting signals to different sends, changing patches of vsts, drumming in live drums from pads, to completely control the dynamic of your track and set - rather than banging in some wavs and sticking some effects over them. Sure, it takes time to do.. sure, its gets complicated.. thats the beauty. Once you have a stucture for a live set with lots of tracks in it, you can take the same ableton self contained live set anywhere and bang out a completely different live set every time!

and watching someone do this can be VERY VERY entertaining.

Has anyone seen that video of exile showing off his skills? very very impressive (admittedly not with ableton but you get the picture)

ableton allows you to automate everything so you can picvk and choose what you want to control!

hands on is best!

[Patrick DSP]

I don`t know about making it easy, I have a much harder time playing my live pa than I did DJing 3 decks.

Running 8 channels of audio and then 4 vsti synths and drum machines.
Each channel with it`s own filters and in some cases effects to control, then there is the mapped controls to the vsti as well as control over the master channel effects, all this and trying to effectively transition between tunes in a similar way to a DJ makes pretty hard work.

I know DSP is very similar.

18-24 channels (depending on the track I'm playing) for my current setup. (yeah yeah, i know. dick measuring contest, etc etc). it can get a bit confusing at times but that's the fun of it. its pure control. there are lots of other artists that do it this way as well. it's a shame that the ones that just press play are the ones that have more time to wave their hands in the air and get the attention.

like i said earlier there isn't a right or wrong way to do live pa's but don't just press play on a fully programmed 2 hour set and fake playing the piano in front of everyone. that's just taking the piss.


synthesis (drums and sounds) together with being able to respond to a crowd and take your music in any direction you feel like is live even if you have some of your synths automated. With what i would say is true live it can be changed on the fly at any given moment in your set. Being able to change the body of any sound, individual drums, effects, structure, rerouting signals to different sends, changing patches of vsts, drumming in live drums from pads, to completely control the dynamic of your track and set - rather than banging in some wavs and sticking some effects over them. Sure, it takes time to do.. sure, its gets complicated.. thats the beauty. Once you have a stucture for a live set with lots of tracks in it, you can take the same ableton self contained live set anywhere and bang out a completely different live set every time!

and watching someone do this can be VERY VERY entertaining.

Has anyone seen that video of exile showing off his skills? very very impressive (admittedly not with ableton but you get the picture)

ableton allows you to automate everything so you can pick and choose what you want to control!

hands on is best!

WELL SAID!
-p.

[davethedrummer]

Okay, would someone please explain to me how an Ableton set is "live" or "dead". Is the difference that the dead set has placed all of the tracks in advance, whereas a live one is picking them on the fly?

That really seems mostly like splitting hairs to me when you're talking about Ableton, when all you'd really have to do to get from one to the other is, rather than actually laying down the tracks into a long set and hitting play, you lay them all down at home beforehand, then take notes on your setlist. Once you get there, drop them all in at the appropriate time and, voila!

1. Pat DSP at 000
2. Concrete DJz at 112
3. Industrialyzer at 180
4. The Advent at 224

and so on...

You're really only adding about four minutes of work between the "live" set and a "dead" one. I guess you could also record all the EQ changes, effects, and cross fading into a "dead" set as well, but why? Is it laziness? Lack of confidence? Is somebody else doing the work for you a la Milli Vanilli?

I don't know. It just seems to me that Ableton makes it SOOO easy already, why would anyone go the extra step of pre-programming the entire set beforehand? Sad.

except that there's no such thing as "easy"

[DannyBlack]

I tried Ableton. It took me 45 minutes to warp 1 bloody track. I gave up. Decks are easier.

[The Overfiend]

I mix my own original tracks and sequence new ones with fresh bits from compositions on the fly. deconstruct to reconstruct new is what i say

[Igneous]

Heared a live set by Bas Mooy last year. He was using Live & a midi controller I think. He was dropping a new loop of dark, broken, pounding beats every 30 seconds. Very impressive & impossible to do with turntables. Opened my eyes to how good laptop sets can be.

[Radic]

that peter hook clip is disturbing

[The_Laughing_Man]

Best definition of a live pa
If you walk away from the kit, and the tune and mix progresses without you, it isn`t live.
Very simple.

[DJPAUZE]

Heared a live set by Bas Mooy last year. He was using Live & a midi controller I think. He was dropping a new loop of dark, broken, pounding beats every 30 seconds. Very impressive & impossible to do with turntables. Opened my eyes to how good laptop sets can be.


I have heard a ton of Bas's live's and they sound incredible. Wish I could see him or Radial sometime.

Radial is one of the best live's I have heard besides Speedy...

[eppertheleper]

except that there's no such thing as "easy"Agreed, but when you compare the difficulty of a dj set using Ableton to one on decks, you've effectively removed two of the hardest elements - beat matching and getting a track to drop on cue. I'm just an amateur tinkerer at best, but those two elements are the hardest parts for me to get right on tables. Ableton matches the beats and, if you know your tracks, getting them to drop at the appropriate time is so easy a first grader could do it.

With Ableton, you've still got to learn the software and know your tracks, but a lot of the technical aspects of spinning are completely handled for you. Anyway, my point was that without those two elements, you're left with finding two tracks that sound good together and mixing them properly so that they don't overwhelm one another. The skills required have been halved. Why someone would go the extra step of removing the last two difficult portions of mixing by doing the whole thing at home is beyond me. Ableton makes it significantly easier to simply mix two tracks together. I'm not knocking those who use hundreds of loops in a set and really push the software to a point that would be impossible using only turntables (Bas Mooy mention above). That IS impressive. What I'm asking is why anyone would pre-program an entire standard mix (one track to the next) at home when doing so on the fly with Ableton is so easy a plebeian like myself can do it?

[The_Laughing_Man]

Never seen this with DJ`s.
This whole conversation is about live pa`s
I guess you really have to know about production and pa`s to really appreciate what goes on here, but basically, building a live pa is a difficult thing to get your head around.
Within the Psi community "cheating" has always been around. DAT based PA`s and DJ sets, and now pre mixed sets on a laptop. In Psi, the music has always taken precedent over all else. No one seems to care if the act or the dj is live, as long as the music is good, but in the more underground scenes, this is very different.
Anyway, the actual construction of a live pa is a different mindset from production itself. I know a lot of producers who have wanted to play live, but just couldn`t get their head around implementing it, and so "cheated".
I`ve trained a lot of people now to make pa`s properly, and once you show someone the basic method of deconstructing their own music and then implementing it within ableton, generally their minds light up.
You don`t just need to run audio in ableton, it is just as easy to implement live vsti also, and in this sense, is no different to using hardware, only you are more portable.

Now as a complete asside, what does difficulty have to do with creativity?
I paint, but I rarely make my own paints. I generally buy pre made paint in a tube, it is much easier, and it doesn`t effect my creativity.

Mixing is not getting 2 revolving platters in time. Mixing is what you choose to play, when you choose to play it, and how you make the music interact, how you react to the music and the crowd.

If I can use something that allows me to spend more time being creative, and less time setting up the mechanics to allow me to be creative, I will take it every time.
That in essence, is Techno. Techno-logy.

I choose to use a mobile phone rather than smoke signals. It doesn`t change the veracity of my words, but it makes it easier for me to communicate.

Why people are still moaning about the use of technology to ease the passage of creativity in a music genre that is supposed to be on the cutting edge, I just don`t understand.
What is the difference with a DJ choosing to use ableton, traktor, CD, Vinyl? A choice of methods that all facilitate the flow of creativity.

Whatever you use is valid. As long as it allows you to be creative and you are the one wielding the brush, and not the other way round, all other considerations are basically irrelevant.

[markandrew]

Why people are still moaning about the use of technology to ease the passage of creativity in a music genre that is supposed to be on the cutting edge, I just don`t understand.
What is the difference with a DJ choosing to use ableton, traktor, CD, Vinyl? A choice of methods that all facilitate the flow of creativity.

Whatever you use is valid. As long as it allows you to be creative and you are the one wielding the brush, and not the other way round, all other considerations are basically irrelevant.

well said mate :smile:

[DJPAUZE]

Agreed, but when you compare the difficulty of a dj set using Ableton to one on decks, you've effectively removed two of the hardest elements - beat matching and getting a track to drop on cue. I'm just an amateur tinkerer at best, but those two elements are the hardest parts for me to get right on tables. Ableton matches the beats and, if you know your tracks, getting them to drop at the appropriate time is so easy a first grader could do it.

With Ableton, you've still got to learn the software and know your tracks, but a lot of the technical aspects of spinning are completely handled for you. Anyway, my point was that without those two elements, you're left with finding two tracks that sound good together and mixing them properly so that they don't overwhelm one another. The skills required have been halved. Why someone would go the extra step of removing the last two difficult portions of mixing by doing the whole thing at home is beyond me. Ableton makes it significantly easier to simply mix two tracks together. I'm not knocking those who use hundreds of loops in a set and really push the software to a point that would be impossible using only turntables (Bas Mooy mention above). That IS impressive. What I'm asking is why anyone would pre-program an entire standard mix (one track to the next) at home when doing so on the fly with Ableton is so easy a plebeian like myself can do it?

When's the last time you did a dj mix in ableton, you are far from right....

[The Overfiend]

Not far from having the ability to post his opinions based on his experiences.

[SlavikSvensk]

When's the last time you did a dj mix in ableton, you are far from right....

what's not right about it, though? he just said you don't have to beat match in ableton, which you don't, and that this fact makes him view ableton dj sets that don't go beyond just mixing (in a traditional sense) as less challenging.

don't see anything wrong with that at all. if all you're doing is dropping tracks in after a few minutes and using the EQs (and maybe a few effects), it is less challenging that mixing. that's a valid point of view.

on the other hand, you could make an equally good case that there's no real point in doing things the hard way if you can do them the easy way. another valid opinion.

in either case, for me the point of software like ableton is to free you up to do other things once the preoccupation with beat matching is taken out of the equation.

[eppertheleper]

When's the last time you did a dj mix in ableton, you are far from right....Three weeks ago.

Slav's right. I'm not saying that Ableton can't be VERY challenging. I was just saying, in the context of this discussion on "cheating" your way through a set, that it can also make things very easy if that's what the performer so desires.

[FuK-NuT]

not strictly true mate
the dj and his technique and his programming skills on the night
will set a track in perfect context ( hopefully! ) so the punters get the most from it
it isn't just a case of stick anything on and hope it's ok.
or a case of completely submitting to the track you are playing either
some tracks ONLY come to life when you get stuck in and dj/mix them properly
get them wrong and they suck

how does that work?

n thats the difference...

[DJPAUZE]

what's not right about it, though? he just said you don't have to beat match in ableton, which you don't, and that this fact makes him view ableton dj sets that don't go beyond just mixing (in a traditional sense) as less challenging.

don't see anything wrong with that at all. if all you're doing is dropping tracks in after a few minutes and using the EQs (and maybe a few effects), it is less challenging that mixing. that's a valid point of view.

on the other hand, you could make an equally good case that there's no real point in doing things the hard way if you can do them the easy way. another valid opinion.

in either case, for me the point of software like ableton is to free you up to do other things once the preoccupation with beat matching is taken out of the equation.

Sorry, I guess I was referring to the actual setup of a dj set in ableton. It's not as easy as drop, press play and you have a set completed.

And again, i hear what his point was and misread the statement.

Pauze

[DJPAUZE]

Three weeks ago.

Slav's right. I'm not saying that Ableton can't be VERY challenging. I was just saying, in the context of this discussion on "cheating" your way through a set, that it can also make things very easy if that's what the performer so desires.

My bad dude, no worries.

[SlavikSvensk]

not a prob. maybe epper came off as anti-ableton a bit...i just know he's not at all :)

[The Overfiend]

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii384/nightriderone/04707a42.gif

[force]

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii384/nightriderone/04707a42.gif

Why??????