Techno wiki page

[SlavikSvensk]

this should inspire some strong opinions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techno

reading that, what comes to mind?

[rhythmtech]

reading that, what comes to mind?

deja vu?

its just the stereotypical, detroit-centric view of techno thats been regurgitated 1000 times before.

[SlavikSvensk]

i'm a classics fiend, but i also found the inattention to non-detroit techno a bit baffling.

i think that you can't tell the story of techno without telling the story of detroit. conversely, if you want to tell the story of techno, as opposed to the story of detroit techno, you need to spend a little more time on the 19 or so years since people started making it in earnest elsewhere, particularly given that detroit's golden age really ended sometime around 1996 (perhaps with "the bells" lol).

[DannyBlack]

There are so many sides to the Techno story. I'm coming around to the detroit stuff, but only to a certain extent. Electronic, repetative music was around before the pioneers did their thing, so I think Detroit Techno being where it all started is a bit... well... liberal.

I think that Detroit is a most certainly one of major fibres in the thread of techno, but certainly not where it started.

At the same time, that is just my opinion- I'm relatively new to Techno so I could be waaaaay off.

[SlavikSvensk]

you can argue that detroit techno had essential antecedents (e.g. kraftwerk, moroder, etc.), but the thing that came to be called techno began in detroit. but i thought the wiki page did the antecedents stuff well. i just had a problem with how it dealt with techno post-detroit.

but of course it's all process. nothing is entirely original; it all comes from somewhere.

(btw danny, do you listen to much rob hood?)

[DannyBlack]

I suppose you have a point. Unfortunately due to my lack of knowledge on the subject I can't really comment any further without it all being opinion based.





but of course it's all process. nothing is entirely original; it all comes from somewhere.

I have a wee bit on vinyl, but to be honest with you I haven't. I'm not entirely too sure why either.

I think the deepest I have ever delved into the Detroit sound would be Jeff Mills, Green Velvet (Preacher man etc), Knights of the Jaguar~ stuff of that nature.

[The_Laughing_Man]

reading that, what comes to mind?

Boredom

[SlavikSvensk]

I suppose you have a point. Unfortunately due to my lack of knowledge on the subject I can't really comment any further without it all being opinion based.

well, i asked for opinions so let them fly :)


I have a wee bit on vinyl, but to be honest with you I haven't. I'm not entirely too sure why either.

I think the deepest I have ever delved into the Detroit sound would be Jeff Mills, Green Velvet (Preacher man etc), Knights of the Jaguar~ stuff of that nature.

there are some real gems from detroit. also a bunch of stinkers and overrated "classics." but there's a sense of freedom in a lot of early techno--not just from detroit--that i miss. however, a lot sounds too dated for most people nowadays. but some guys, like rob hood, were making music that still sounds really fresh today.

i bring him up because a lot of his records have been rereleased recently, and it blows most of today's minimal out of the water.

[DannyBlack]

well, i asked for opinions so let them fly :)



there are some real gems from detroit. also a bunch of stinkers and overrated "classics." but there's a sense of freedom in a lot of early techno--not just from detroit--that i miss. however, a lot sounds too dated for most people nowadays. but some guys, like rob hood, were making music that still sounds really fresh today.

i bring him up because a lot of his records have been rereleased recently, and it blows most of today's minimal out of the water.


I think what put me off was the local record shop. I remember getting my wages on a Friday and rushing into town with butterflies in my tummy and a turtle head emerging- literally close to crapping with excitement only to be met with UR releases.

I just couldn't get my head around why they were so popular. It was alien to me.

Now there is stuff in my collection that is counted as Detroit I think- Shari Vari- a bloody wonderful track. Then I have preacher man and smatterings of Jeff mills and Mr. Hood. But on the whole I never quite got it.

I agree on the modern minimal point- Modern Minimal I find and I guess why I am so apposed, is incredibly formulaic and churned out. Even 'Plastik man' stuff annoys me.

I know that isn't modern minimal but bloody hell it is so boring. Of course this is my opinion- so please don't hit me haha

[The_Laughing_Man]

i bring him up because a lot of his records have been rereleased recently, and it blows most of today's minimal out of the water.

I never get these kind of statements.
Modern Minimal or the Berlin sound bares no comparison to Hoods minimal detroit stuf.
They are 2 different types of music, the only similarity being a philosophy of minimalism.
Berlin mnml owes little to hood and really takes more reference from house and strips it back, with loads of modern technological techniques.
Hoods music was just detroit stuff with less instrumentation.

I`m not saying one is better than the other, but comparing them is silly.

[DannyBlack]

I never get these kind of statements.
Modern Minimal or the Berlin sound bares no comparison to Hoods minimal detroit stuf.
They are 2 different types of music, the only similarity being a philosophy of minimalism.
Berlin mnml owes little to hood and really takes more reference from house and strips it back, with loads of modern technological techniques.
Hoods music was just detroit stuff with less instrumentation.

I`m not saying one is better than the other, but comparing them is silly.


I think 'Philosophy' is the keyword there. There isn't a 'Philosophy of minimal' these days. It is a 'Philosophy of money'. Soulless.

[The_Laughing_Man]

I agree on the modern minimal point- Modern Minimal I find and I guess why I am so apposed, is incredibly formulaic and churned out. Even 'Plastik man' stuff annoys me.


Now I`m not exactly standing in for mnml here, I like it, but then I like lots of music, and generally I applaud any experimentation and development.

IT`s odd you say mnml is formulaic and churned out, I guess the mainstream stuff is, yes, but you can say that about the mainstream of any genre.

In fact I have found, and still do find more experimentation and innovation in terms of sounds and techniques within mnml than in hard techno.
This is unfortunate, and part of the demise of harder techno I think, as it looped itself into obivion.
I would actually say hard techno is probably the most formulaic at the mo.
It shouldn`t be, but it is.
Same sounds, same patterns, little experimentation, lack of attention to detail.

I wish it would change.

[DannyBlack]

Now I`m not exactly standing in for mnml here, I like it, but then I like lots of music, and generally I applaud any experimentation and development.

IT`s odd you say mnml is formulaic and churned out, I guess the mainstream stuff is, yes, but you can say that about the mainstream of any genre.

In fact I have found, and still do find more experimentation and innovation in terms of sounds and techniques within mnml than in hard techno.
This is unfortunate, and part of the demise of harder techno I think, as it looped itself into obivion.
I would actually say hard techno is probably the most formulaic at the mo.
It shouldn`t be, but it is.
Same sounds, same patterns, little experimentation, lack of attention to detail.

I wish it would change.


Yep- I need to be more specific with my statement. I do absolutely refer to the main stream.

But the experimentation you refer to, the creepy eerie dark stuff- I love. In fact, thats what I find myself leaning towards. Its slow, it allows to put more in and get more out. Hard techno to me is kind of- well for playing at parties I guess.

When I mix at home I stick to the off beat, stripped down music. Alex Bau- the Arms stuff, audio assaults, right through to Jay Pace's stuff. Is THAT minimal?

[davethedrummer]

yeah it's bit top heavy isn't it ?
loads about detroit around the cleavage area
a bit of minimal and rave around the waist
followed by a scantily clad wonky / hardcore bit down below

if that article were a woman
she'd have fallen over by now

[DannyBlack]

You'd give her one though wouldn't you?

[davethedrummer]

hmmm
not sure.... it's the hardcore area that worries me

[SlavikSvensk]

I never get these kind of statements.
Modern Minimal or the Berlin sound bares no comparison to Hoods minimal detroit stuf.
They are 2 different types of music, the only similarity being a philosophy of minimalism.
Berlin mnml owes little to hood and really takes more reference from house and strips it back, with loads of modern technological techniques.
Hoods music was just detroit stuff with less instrumentation.

I`m not saying one is better than the other, but comparing them is silly.

:lol: yes how true. one is minimalistic techno; the other is minimalistic techno, after all. how silly of me to express a preference for one over the other!

besides, it wasn't even the important part of the sentence, dude. i could give two sh*ts about minimal, MNML or whatever its called nowadays. it tends to bore me silly, aside from the stuff that doesn't. but that's no different from any other form of techno. i was just trying to get danny into rob hood, whose classic records never bore me, silly or otherwise.

[DannyBlack]

but that's no different from any other form of techno. i was just trying to get danny into rob hood, whose classic records never bore me, silly or otherwise.



Im youtubing as we speak. in the interest of science.

[DannyBlack]

hmmm
not sure.... it's the hardcore area that worries me


:lol: I can imagine that being a pretty fierce looking clam.

[morbid]

It's clearly all wrong

theres no mention of Scooter or 2 Unlimited anywhere

the very backbone of modern techno : )

[Fusion]

It's clearly all wrong

theres no mention of Scooter or 2 Unlimited anywhere

the very backbone of modern techno : )

:lol:

[josephjobling]

It's clearly all wrong

theres no mention of Scooter or 2 Unlimited anywhere

the very backbone of modern techno : )

ahhhh wgere would we be with out techno,techno, techno, techno.

On a serious note - i am new to techno too (laught at my innocence - but i always thought techno was invented in germany) and found it interesting to read about the begining of techno. so what i want to know is apart from detroit where are the other major players in the begining of techno?

[rhythmtech]

so what i want to know is apart from detroit where are the other major players in the begining of techno?

early kraut rock like can and faust.

early european industrial like front242 and nietzer ebb

some early disco.. donna summers "i feel love" being quite notable for its bassline.

you could take it as far back as the invention of rock'n'roll really.

detroit certainly is not the beginning of techno.. its more like one of the many beginnings of techno.

[The_Laughing_Man]

so what i want to know is apart from detroit where are the other major players in the begining of techno?

Among many others

Kraftwerk
Nick Turner
Liaisons Dangereuses
Throbbing Gristle (Adrenalin pre-dated Detroit Techno by about 4 years)
Giorgio Moroder

but really you can keep tracing back and tracing back, music just evolved naturally.
Atkins and the other oldie fogies from detroit coined the term techno, but techno had been around for ages.

[morbid]

apart from detroit where are the other major players in the begining of techno?

as above...

Skinny Puppy
Nitzer ebb
Front 242
FLA
Caberet Voltaire
Revolting Cocks

any of the post punk EBM / Industrial / Alternative movement

Belgium and new beat never gets a mention but played a massive part

[The Overfiend]

I see these threads and it's like stating hip hop did not start in the Bronx.

[SlavikSvensk]

ahhhh wgere would we be with out techno,techno, techno, techno.

On a serious note - i am new to techno too (laught at my innocence - but i always thought techno was invented in germany) and found it interesting to read about the begining of techno. so what i want to know is apart from detroit where are the other major players in the begining of techno?

two parts to any answer. the first is, who influenced the detroit pioneers? that's covered well in the article: kraftwerk, human league, gary numan, devo, giorgio moroder, alexander robotnik, etc. what's not really mentioned is the influence of the more synth oriented side of funk, especially parliament, which was huge in detroit at the time.

then there's, who influenced the growth of the genre beyond just detroit? people have already mentioned some industrial, EBM and krautrock artists. i'd add to that some of the more rhythmic oriented electro-acoustic composers. hard to listen to steve reich or terry riley and not hear techno in there...

[The_Laughing_Man]

as above...

Skinny Puppy
Nitzer ebb
Front 242
FLA
Caberet Voltaire
Revolting Cocks

any of the post punk EBM / Industrial / Alternative movement

Belgium and new beat never gets a mention but played a massive part
'Apart from voltaire, most of that stuff was a bit late coming.
242 were very early ebm pioneers though, I`ve some of their early pre detroit gear and it`s pretty easy to see their influence also, but then they were driven by gristle et al.
As I said it keeps going back and back

[djfilthmonger]

early kraut rock like can and faust.

early european industrial like front242 and nietzer ebb

some early disco.. donna summers "i feel love" being quite notable for its bassline.

you could take it as far back as the invention of rock'n'roll really.

detroit certainly is not the beginning of techno.. its more like one of the many beginnings of techno.


Kraut Rock is savage! Me brother got me into that last year. loving it. the precussion is very like trip hop .

[josephjobling]

thanks guys there's alot for me to reaserch and get my teath into - i'll be spending time on google and youtube looking at all the above. Thanx

[Technologic]

probably the bets article i've read about techno...

http://www.electronicdancemusic.org/machine-soul-a-history-of-techno-by-jon-savage/

[Loop]

theres always so much left out when it comes to defining a term, techno as a defined genre most defiantly came from Detroit, but only as a redefinition of other styles. Nothing they did was overwhelming unique, check out cybotron and tell me it don't sound like Kraftwerk, then theres e2 e4, the french disco underground, house, blah blah blah. It goes on. what the detroit guys did was be exactly in the right place at the right time, ie the M25 orbital circa 1988.

[SlavikSvensk]

cybotron sounds heavily influenced by kraftwerk, but not like kraftwerk. and besides, cybotron is also just the first techno record, much like sugar hill gang was the first hip-hop...not exactly the sound at its most complex (even though it's still great).

of course all music is evolutionary. nothing is completely original, and there are always antecedents for everything. the detroit guys were always quite aware of this...derrick may called techno "kraftwerk and george clinton stuck in an elevator," after all. and you can take either of these artists and say that they were so and so and so and so stuck in an elevator. kraftwerk--who were enormously innovative--are kind of like neu and early jean-michel jarre stuck in an elevator.

what the detroit guys did--and what kraftwerk did before them--was mold these influences into a coherent and different new form.

[davethedrummer]

I see these threads and it's like stating hip hop did not start in the Bronx.

which of course it didn't
it started in leeds

[DannyBlack]

Leeds? I thought it was started in Oldham? In "The pie an ferret breaders Arms".

maybe i'm thinking of trip hop.

[The_Laughing_Man]

I see these threads and it's like stating hip hop did not start in the Bronx.

People had been talking like children in rhyming sentences for years, the bronx can`t claim anything.
Credit should go to wordsworth