**** MINIMAL

[Darkmode]

I joined this group on facebook called **** Minimal which was started off by Ben Sims it goes to show he is not the only Techno artist who is also pissed off with Minimal

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1060371737&ref=nf#/group.php?gid=146463052329&ref=ts

[DannyBlack]

hehehe id just like to state that I all along ne ver caved.

[Darkmode]

you spelt cared wrong ha ha

[djfilthmonger]

i seen that alright

[The Overfiend]

I endorse this group.

[DannyBlack]

you spelt cared wrong ha ha

I was going for Caved hahaha


Minimal (the comercial shit) is shit and always will be shit. end of.

[teknorich]

Minimal house sucks donkey balls, minimal techno doesn't. Simples!

[basslinejunkie]

like every genre, 90 per cent of it is dogturd. if done right however its great.

not sure why a minimal forum has been added here though, techno and minimal is like dogs and cats.

[Numeric]

:lol: so sims is a hater

fair do's, i'd much rather see sims belt it out than any of the big minimal jocks, although i wasn't digging that 'thriller' track he plays on the set that was posted on here recently, in the files section

[The_Laughing_Man]

Surely this forum doesn`t consist of 12 year old fanboys and actually is frequented by informed adults who understand that it is rather childish to hate on any music that you aren`t into.
What is the point of slagging off another genre of music. Techno as a genre, to continue to be somewhere near the cutting edge needs to change and progress. Artists need to experiment (Sims ironically has played minimal stuff in his sets over the last couple of years).
Currently main stream straight techno or "hard" techno hasn`t really progressed at all. The advent of crossing over with dubstep and minimal, and in fact a new emerging genre of music that sits somewhere between all 3, is the first signs of true progress.
The minimal explosion was a direct reaction to techno running out of steam, artists wanted to try something else. And because of this there have been reactions against it (which is healthy as it has forced progress) and reactions to it (which again is healthy as it pushes artists to try new things).
Music needs to develop to stay alive, and if you look at the history of various genres, at some point a new sound develops within a genre. Those who can`t except change stay with the same thing, and interest in the old skool of that genre wanes until it hits a steady, but not growth, fan base.
The new emergent genre generally gets a new name to separate itself, and begins a growth cycle, reaches a plateu and then the cycle repeats.
Hard techno has had it`s plateu and now I think has gone through it`s decay and has hit it`s steady fan base.

Why bleat about it? What difference will it make?

[DannyBlack]

This is teh Internetz, bleeting is whut we do.

[The_Laughing_Man]

Is true.
But I think all dance music hate should be directed towards scouse house, which is excempt from all my above points

[Si the Sigh]

Shut up Steve.

Blackout Crew FTW!!!1

[DannyBlack]

hahaha to be honest, i think it is healthy that people are directing the frustration to the white wash that is comercial minimal. There was too much of it. Producers and DJs whoring themselves to milk the minimal cow for money. it was so obvious and sickening to watch your hero's who at one time stood for something... blah blah....


anyway. Bollocks to it all. If it isn't mnml or scouse bloody house or deep shitty spunky house it will be something else.

Deep funky Schranz, minimal hardcore, fidget gabba anyone?

[Si the Sigh]

Fight teh donkz!!

[DannyBlack]

Hey, Si. I'll put a donk on you in a minute.

[The_Laughing_Man]

it was so obvious and sickening to watch your hero's who at one time stood for something... blah blah....




What did they stand for?

[Si the Sigh]

AIDS

[DannyBlack]

This is probably just projection on my part but they stood for everything. When I first got into techno it felt faceless and exciting. Not driven by image as much as the rest of music had become, but driven by passion. Art I suppose. Maybe this was me projecting what I wanted out of it onto it. I dunno. But the minimal entity seemed to suck it out.

[SlavikSvensk]

if it's good, it's good, and labels be damned.

that said, some sounds churn out more drivel than others.

[The Overfiend]

This is probably just projection on my part but they stood for everything. When I first got into techno it felt faceless and exciting. Not driven by image as much as the rest of music had become, but driven by passion. Art I suppose. Maybe this was me projecting what I wanted out of it onto it. I dunno. But the minimal entity seemed to suck it out.

That's why I love this guy!

[Jay Pace]

Doing something you're not into any more isn't exactly keeping it real.

Its about attitude, not genres. Some djs, crews, parties and tracks plain suck. Thats not to say that others aren't rocking it.

[The_Laughing_Man]

This is probably just projection on my part but they stood for everything. When I first got into techno it felt faceless and exciting. Not driven by image as much as the rest of music had become, but driven by passion. Art I suppose. Maybe this was me projecting what I wanted out of it onto it. I dunno. But the minimal entity seemed to suck it out.

Nah, because it was "faceless" you projected onto it what you wanted.
There has always been commercial techno, vip, champaign, sunglasses in the dark image conscious people making it.
The acid techno side of things was connected to the free party scene, so it had a more fringe society ethic, but as soon as people had to use it to pay the mortgage I think it changed a bit. But it was still part of (more so than all other brands of techno) something that stood for something. Anti establishment, political anarchy, freedom etc
You could even say, apart from squawtin and his fragrance brand etc that minimal is even less image driven, as there is less physical image.
Hardwax releases being generally white label and anonymous, and they very much drive the sound at the moment.

When techno was at it`s height, and Beyer and the like were doing their commercial loop-techno thing. That was no more or less lifeless than minimal is now, there was an underground in techno that was reacting against all that, in the same way that people are reacting against minimal.
The difference is that the people that were into that loopy sound, are now reacting against mnml, but for me, a lot of the stuff that gets raved about now with all the "techno was better in 199*" was quite commercial and predictable at the time.

Horses for courses.
Minimal means as much now to those who generally believe in the music, and not the scene, as it did for any previous incarnation of techno.

Personally I feel more passion in some, not all, minimal being made today, because there is obvious investment of time going into some of the music.
Musicality has been brought to the game as opposed to mashing any old loops together and calling it techno, you can feel the work that has gone into the production values. The music seems to be getting more musical, and less DJ-ey, if that makes sense.
Techno in the past has been kinda looked down on by some as having low production values and a culture of anyone can throw it together. Which has both positives and negatives.

I`m not a massive fan of mainstream minimal, but I`ve never really been much of a fan of mainstream anything, so I`m still finding creative, passionate, interesting and futuristic music.

[Darkmode]

To be honest I think Minimal is hyped up overrated mediocre crap it has done the Techno scene more harm than good & it forced Techno artists to compromise for the wrong reasons. Minimal is slowly on it's way out & when it dies watch & see how many of the Techno artists who jumped on the Minimal bandwagon will go back to Techno & if they do it will show them for who they really are!

[The_Laughing_Man]

To be honest I think Minimal is hyped up overrated mediocre crap it has done the Techno scene more harm than good & it forced Techno artists to compromise for the wrong reasons. Minimal is slowly on it's way out & when it dies watch & see how many of the Techno artists who jumped on the Minimal bandwagon will go back to Techno & if they do it will show them for who they really are!

Blanket statements about any form of music are normally ill-informed.
On the contrary there is, like all music, the good and the bad, the sell outs and the artists. SOme is mediocre, some is pushing the cutting edge, some is downright aweful. Same as techno same as anything.
You simply have to find it, just like anything else.
No one was forced to do anything, and some of the artists who have embraced a change have done some truly great stuff, I think Regis stuff as Kalon has been fantastic.
The suggestion that people will go "back" to making techno is perhaps misguided, if anything those that move with the zeitgeist may just move on to whatever change and development is next.
Minimal is on it`s way out and is dying?
Surely that must mean then that the previous main form of techno is dead?
Or will minimal die, but the older form of techno won`t?
I`m confused as to how music dies?
I thought it just starts with die hard fans, reaches it`s commercial peak, and then goes back to being supported by die hard fans

I think these kinds of fearful raves and reaction always happen when things change.
With techno I din it the most odd, as musically it has always been so fluid, and about change, and the future.
When it changes though, people can`t accept it, because they don`t really want change, they want familiarity.

[Darkmode]

Blanket statements about any form of music are normally ill-informed.
On the contrary there is, like all music, the good and the bad, the sell outs and the artists. SOme is mediocre, some is pushing the cutting edge, some is downright aweful. Same as techno same as anything.
You simply have to find it, just like anything else.
No one was forced to do anything, and some of the artists who have embraced a change have done some truly great stuff, I think Regis stuff as Kalon has been fantastic.
The suggestion that people will go "back" to making techno is perhaps misguided, if anything those that move with the zeitgeist may just move on to whatever change and development is next.
Minimal is on it`s way out and is dying?
Surely that must mean then that the previous main form of techno is dead?
Or will minimal die, but the older form of techno won`t?
I`m confused as to how music dies?
I thought it just starts with die hard fans, reaches it`s commercial peak, and then goes back to being supported by die hard fans

I think these kinds of fearful raves and reaction always happen when things change.
With techno I din it the most odd, as musically it has always been so fluid, and about change, and the future.
When it changes though, people can`t accept it, because they don`t really want change, they want familiarity.

Just because I don't like Minimal does not mean I am informed there is loads of people who into Minimal are informed about the music as they are into it becasue it's fashionable some of them have not even heard of Robert Hood & some diss him saying he is crap!

I don't like Minimal & a lot of people don't like it at the end of the day not everyone likes it those Techno artists who jumped on the Minimal bandwagon jumped on it for the money & the music they are releasing now is crap as they are only doing it for the money & you can tell when you here it there is no passion it it's soulless crap thats what I think & if people who are into Minimal don't like what I think than thats their problem! It's for poncy scarf waring pricks with silly haircuts end of!

[The_Laughing_Man]

s
ome of them have not even heard of Robert Hood & some diss him saying he is crap!

I don't like Minimal & a lot of people don't like it at the end of the day not everyone likes it those Techno artists who jumped on the Minimal bandwagon jumped on it for the money & the music they are releasing now is crap as they are only doing it for the money & you can tell when you here it there is no passion it it's soulless crap thats what I think & if people who are into Minimal don't like what I think than thats their problem! It's for poncy scarf waring pricks with silly haircuts end of!

That`s a blanket statement.
To say EVERYONE is doing it for the money is just plain silly.
Skoog for instance, got bored of normal techno and did his agaric thing.
It gets boring making the same thing all the time, minimal for some was like a breath of fresh air, something new that still had the freedom to experiment of techno.
Monolake has found a place between minimal and dubstep that is very interesting, artistically very deep, he`s obviously trying something new, I find it very passionate.
Ruskin has played with a more stripped down, slowed down minimal style, his track on the ep I was on, surface recordings, I think is very tender, passionate, yet slams on the floor still.
You have to accept that musicains who are actually passionately into making music, will want to try new things, and spread their wings. Otherwise they get stuck in their ways doing the same thing again and again, and we call people like that Hacks.

I`m not saying I particularly like minimal as a whole, I like good music though, and I have found some great dark and powerful music that is minimal.
There is some stuff with great passion and emotional content out there, very powerful too.

And some people may well say Hood is crap, they aree ntitled to say that, and just as correct and justified in saying that as you are in saying that all minimal is without passion and only made for the money, I for one, don`t like anything Hood has done, it bores me to tears, but I understand what people do like about it.

[Darkmode]

Well I produce different types of music as I write & produce Electro & Techno which makes things more interesting I know what you mean when you say It gets boring making the same thing all the time, but I couldn't write & produce music that I don't like as my hart is not into it thats why I would not write a Minimal track

I'm not being silly as some of them have done it for the money maybe not all of them as you say but some of them have

This is the last thing I'm going to say about this subject!

[davethedrummer]

what a load of old nonsense
what the hell are you lot talking about ?

[Izz]

Dunno, signed up to that group thinking it was a rant against all the trendy wank we put up with over the whole mnml uproar. Not really sure who's getting picked on tbh. Theres good mnml like liebing, speedy j, a.paul, industrialyser then there's terrible like the beatport techno top ten a couple of years ago (mabye even now? not looked).

I know what i like to hear and like to play.

As for heroes jumping ship? Just testing different waters i guess, what does and always will annoy me is the prancing about, fashion labels and obscure promotions instead of just keeping there heads down and doing their thing.

my 2p ;)

[MARK ANXIOUS]

what a load of childish bollox. if you can't understand a style of music - it's your problem, not the music. it never ceases to amaze me why the hell dont timewasters like this actually put effort into making music to rival minimal rather than moaning and feeling all big and clever for being part of a 'clique' that hates it. pointless. absolutely pointless.

[The_Laughing_Man]

what a load of childish bollox. if you can't understand a style of music - it's your problem, not the music. it never ceases to amaze me why the hell dont timewasters like this actually put effort into making music to rival minimal rather than moaning and feeling all big and clever for being part of a 'clique' that hates it. pointless. absolutely pointless.

apparently it was Sims who started the page..:roflmao:

[DannyBlack]

what a load of childish bollox. if you can't understand a style of music - it's your problem, not the music. it never ceases to amaze me why the hell dont timewasters like this actually put effort into making music to rival minimal rather than moaning and feeling all big and clever for being part of a 'clique' that hates it. pointless. absolutely pointless.

Hey, Mark- I'm gonna set up a facebook group against your hairstyle. Im gonna cal it **** Mark EG's hair do.

[MARK ANXIOUS]

well i was thinking of having a perm, you know.

it doesnt matter who set it up imho. whoever did it wants attention. if you're involved in this game behind the scenes and have been for years, you should know that people's tastes change, music evolves and you have to evolve with it. who says you can be into something hard one day and then something groovier the next and drop the hard stuff. it doesnt necessarily mean you've done it cause of fashion. it just means you've seen the light and moved on. lumping everyone into the category of fashion followers is just plain thick if you ask me.

[The_Laughing_Man]

I agree.
Tribalism is dumb. It`s a form of racism. But it is a product of intense hardcore fandom as well.
Positive and negative.

[The Overfiend]

Has he lost his mind?
Can he see or is he blind?
Can he walk at all,
Or if he moves will he fall?
Is he alive or dead?
Has he thoughts within his head?
Well just pass him there
Why should we even care?

[MARK ANXIOUS]

I'd like to publicly apologise to everyone for my statements above. At the time I honestly didn't think this group would have been started by Ben but I've just found out it has been. My reaction was based around the fact I thought this was some bored kid wanting attention.

Ben is someone I respect massively and if that's the way he feels, that's the way he feels. He definitely has the authority in my book to voice his opinion on a Facebook group.

Sorry guys.

*Mark crawls back under his rock*

[DannyBlack]

:dans taxi:


hahaha

[SlavikSvensk]

i have a simple bar for music: if i like it, i'll listen to it.

i don't see the point in either vapid adulation or reactionary negativity when it comes to 'scenes' or 'subgenres.' to people and their attitudes, maybe. but music is...music. judge it on its merits, according to whatever criteria is meaningful to you. but be open to it too.

...except scouse house, which is just objectively bad.

[teknorich]

"...except scouse house, which is just objectively bad. "

You got that right!!!

[gunjack]

I'd like to publicly apologise to everyone for my statements above. At the time I honestly didn't think this group would have been started by Ben but I've just found out it has been. My reaction was based around the fact I thought this was some bored kid wanting attention.

Ben is someone I respect massively and if that's the way he feels, that's the way he feels. He definitely has the authority in my book to voice his opinion on a Facebook group.

Sorry guys.

*Mark crawls back under his rock*


damn i wonder how many gunjack haters back pedal as fast as this when simsy drops "murda" at a gig hahahahahahah

[Darkmode]

I'd like to publicly apologise to everyone for my statements above. At the time I honestly didn't think this group would have been started by Ben but I've just found out it has been. My reaction was based around the fact I thought this was some bored kid wanting attention.

Ben is someone I respect massively and if that's the way he feels, that's the way he feels. He definitely has the authority in my book to voice his opinion on a Facebook group.

Sorry guys.

*Mark crawls back under his rock*

You don't have to apologise at tall mate ;-)

As I say I feel Ben's frustration about Minimal & so do a lot of other well known Techno artists fair play to him for having the balls to set up a group & speak about it on facebook!

[The_Laughing_Man]

I'd like to publicly apologise to everyone for my statements above. At the time I honestly didn't think this group would have been started by Ben but I've just found out it has been. My reaction was based around the fact I thought this was some bored kid wanting attention.

Ben is someone I respect massively and if that's the way he feels, that's the way he feels. He definitely has the authority in my book to voice his opinion on a Facebook group.

Sorry guys.

*Mark crawls back under his rock*

what difference does it make that Sims started the post? You were against it until then.
Some bored kids opinion is just as valid as Sims. He`s just a man.
No point back peddling for political reasons, Ben is a big man, I`m sure he can cope with someone disagreeing with him (he is an essex boy after all, where calling your mate a wanker can be a term of endearment), it doesn`t mean you ****ed his mum.
Retracting your statement just because the page was started by Sims ends up appearing a bit, erm, false.

[MARK ANXIOUS]

what difference does it make that Sims started the post? You were against it until then.
Some bored kids opinion is just as valid as Sims. He`s just a man.
No point back peddling for political reasons, Ben is a big man, I`m sure he can cope with someone disagreeing with him (he is an essex boy after all, where calling your mate a wanker can be a term of endearment), it doesn`t mean you ****ed his mum.
Retracting your statement just because the page was started by Sims ends up appearing a bit, erm, false.

i totally see what you're saying there. but the plain fact is, if i knew it was ben that started that, i don't think i would have layed into it with such force and in that tone, cause i know him and i respect him. the last thing i want to do on the net is start a web slag match with ppl i actually respect. i thought it was some silly jumped up kid with with a hidden agenda who just had a bee in his bonnet.. that's the way the comments on the front page of the group came across to me when i clicked the link. i should have researched more but i didnt have the time to flick through every page....

i still believe setting up a club against a certain group of ppl is a totally negative, wrong way of doing things. you simply can't pigeon hole all the dj's who've jumped ship like that. since i've realised this was ben i've checked the site more and i actually do agree with alot of what is said in the info page, but it's all said in a negative, conflict inducing way that is gonna achieve nothing imho. i'm not apologising for the principles of what i'm saying, i'm just apologising for the way i said it...

look, surely there is a better way of getting this **** minimal point across???? that, is the whole reason is set up the 'MINIMAL [NO HYPE]' forum up....

[SlavikSvensk]

As I say I feel Ben's frustration about Minimal & so do a lot of other well known Techno artists fair play to him for having the balls to set up a group & speak about it on facebook!

what does one gain by being "frustrated" by minimal?

seems to me like, if you don't really care for it, you don't have to play it.

[Darkmode]

what does one gain by being "frustrated" by minimal?

seems to me like, if you don't really care for it, you don't have to play it.


I'm frustrated with it as it has done the Techno scene more harm than good I'm totally passionate for Techno & I don't like what it has done to the Techno scene

[The_Laughing_Man]

i totally see what you're saying there. but the plain fact is, if i knew it was ben that started that, i don't think i would have layed into it with such force and in that tone, cause i know him and i respect him. the last thing i want to do on the net is start a web slag match with ppl i actually respect. i thought it was some silly jumped up kid with with a hidden agenda who just had a bee in his bonnet.. that's the way the comments on the front page of the group came across to me when i clicked the link. i should have researched more but i didnt have the time to flick through every page....

i still believe setting up a club against a certain group of ppl is a totally negative, wrong way of doing things. you simply can't pigeon hole all the dj's who've jumped ship like that. since i've realised this was ben i've checked the site more and i actually do agree with alot of what is said in the info page, but it's all said in a negative, conflict inducing way that is gonna achieve nothing imho. i'm not apologising for the principles of what i'm saying, i'm just apologising for the way i said it...

look, surely there is a better way of getting this **** minimal point across???? that, is the whole reason is set up the 'MINIMAL [NO HYPE]' forum up....

Ironically, Sims plays minimal in his sets anyway.
I`m sure the man is just having a laugh.

[gunjack]

its teh intrenetz. thas what iz for...

[MITA]

gunny i hate you

[gunjack]

hate it up brudda

[CTRLS]

I think its mighty weird when UNDERGROUND legends attempt to tell others what to do. Never made much sense to me, since they were the ones that originally went against the flow. Unless anyone seriously wants to boycott minimal instead of just promoting the music they like i dont see what moaning about it is gonna do. That group certainly doesnt do much service to the anti minimal crowd. 'YEAH **** MINIMAL **** YAH' bunch of children.

first post btw, nice forum and interresting emoticons hehe:smile:

[koma]

welcome CTRLS

i agree with your post btw. in the year 2009 people are still moaning about minimal, like, hello? its simply nonsense. they all should rather produce some interesting, fresh records.

[DannyBlack]

yh I agr wth tht stmt cmpltly- mnml is th nw mximm. FCT!

[teknofilth]

all those who are so anti minimal,what you think it has done to the techno scene etc..if you are that bothered what are you doing about it? making an alternative sound? putting on nights promoting what you perceive to be techno? starting a collective? or what ? so much negativity for no reason..
..turn it into something positive for techno's sake(!)

[Martin Dust]

People should get out a bit more, there's bigger things to worry about than shit tracks and DJ's with to much time on their hands.

[gunjack]

uh huh. i am with the dog on this one...

[The_Laughing_Man]

I think people shouldget so angry about minimal they start killing other people.
Minimal rage.
Violence, and blood, lots of blood, and pure hatred, is the only answer.
Actions speak louder than words.

[gunjack]

uummm yea dude.

[The_Laughing_Man]

Obviously it`s the only way.
Minimal is a threat to all things decent and techno, this is a war on a way of life, Minimal is killing children.

[gunjack]

i think you need to lay off that crack, you tense, sarcastic sourpuss.

[The_Laughing_Man]

Crack isn`t just for christmas.

[Darkmode]

People should get out a bit more, there's bigger things to worry about than shit tracks and DJ's with to much time on their hands.


I can see where you are coming from basicly don't worry about what other people are doing & just do your own thing!

[Chis]

http://casimirsblake.deviantart.com/art/In-Lektrali-141578980

Here's my little "f*ck you" to minimal.

But hey, I LIKE Rob Babicz, so not all minimal sucks.

[BloodStar]

wouldnt blame minimal fans to move to this style. techno got so boring after time that i dont blame them to move on. Maybe if techno artists would think about the results of bashing tons of same releases every week for few years, then maybe techno would survive and mutate to something new and interesting. that would make techno sound fresh and bring new audience = alive and strong.

personally i dont like minimal and i guess it is boring shit,. many artists without production skills still bashing 808 samples together same as techno people bashing loops, where is the difference?

sad thing is that minimal didnt killed techno. techno killed itself.

[koma]

techno will never die!
we are the robots!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-haWSy43Ks

[gunjack]

if techno artists would think about the results of bashing tons of same releases every week for few years


for all you wondering about the "dark" sound. this is what killed it. i remember a moment when i was working at jaxx when it was exium/olga+yozef/wunsch/mulero all releasing remixes of tunes that had already been remixed etc i mean all the f ucking records sounded the same and there were so many remixes of the same tunes....

shortly after i remember the "panic" setting in that "techno wasn't selling like it used to" pfffft. people just got sick of 257940289754 off beat reaktor synth tunes...

[gunjack]

i remember this big meeting on the office about how "if oscar (mulero) wasn't selling in spain, then even god couldn't sell techno at the moment" meanwhile i had vincente the accountant burst into the room and holler in spanish "goddamn gunjack! you sold 800 copies of GCS03 in 10 days!" i just smiled and kept my mouth shut as oscar and them looked over at me with "i wanna murder you brian" eyes... hehe

[gunjack]

maybe if people hadn't have gotten stuck in the brummy sound or the "spanish" sound they might have realized that DIVERSITY = LONGEVITY

[SlavikSvensk]

said this a lot in the past, but there is too much of a "track" mentality in techno, not enough of a "song" mentality. people make things with the dancefloor in mind, which is fine, but a lot of producers just crank out product without much thought about how this will stand up over time, or how it will be memorable amid a glut of similar product.

this isn't a new development in any way, shape or form, nor is it unique to techno. but techno isn't new and fresh now either.

[BloodStar]

there is too much of a "track" mentality in techno, not enough of a "song" mentality.

well said.

[Jay Pace]

+1 on the "instead of bashing minimal why not just do something interesting"

Hating minimal won't make crowds flock back. I preferred techno's shaven headed army having an honest to god stomp over the ketamised tight jean brigade wearing sun glasses to side-chained white noise, but really, who gives a shit?

Things move on, if people don't like minimal they're under no obligation to make it, play it or go out to it.

[koma]

said this a lot in the past, but there is too much of a "track" mentality in techno, not enough of a "song" mentality. people make things with the dancefloor in mind, which is fine, but a lot of producers just crank out product without much thought about how this will stand up over time, or how it will be memorable amid a glut of similar product.


i had this discussion a while ago. people doing tribal or harder techno were moaning how minimal ruined techno, how these producers are switching in it for money bla bla bla, then i asked, how come you dont produce something else, i mean, tribal techno is so 2005, get over it. and where is the funk and soul in tracks created with few loops we already heard dozens times (half of which is from sample cds anyway)... then i got the answer, well it still sells so its ok...

so wtf, who is ruining what?! :confused:

[The_Laughing_Man]

A combination of shrinking market, distributers losing their balls, desperation from artists and dj`s to be popular in as little time with as little work as possible, has caused an overall lack of courage.
The mentality of play safe is partly what has "ruined" techno.

There is still great stuff out there, but distributers are so backed into a corner now they just want a repeat of whatever was popular last month.
The game is constantly playing catch up, rather than investing in getting ahead of the game.

The digital revolution is both a massive blessing and a curse.
The blessing is that some really good shit is out there getting released now, that normally would scare the distributers.
The curse is that you need to spend time sifting through all the crap (was it any different when vinyl was massive though?)

What holds techno back is the dogged and blind commitment to vinyl, which you just don`t see so much in other dance genres.

[Chis]

What holds techno back is the dogged and blind commitment to vinyl, which you just don`t see so much in other dance genres.

+1... billion. Vinyl prices are hideous. £8 for a 12" with two tracks and about 15 minutes of music, is it any wonder why people complain?

Oh and why wasn't my other post accepted? I know BOA is music-orientated but the link I posted was relevant! My admittedly non-musical contribution to the "disliking minimalism" crowd: http://casimirsblake.deviantart.com/art/In-Lektrali-141578980

Personally I feel minimalism has become an excuse for poor production, stretching barely-developed musical ideas across tracks that shouldn't be 1 minute, let alone 7. And dare I say, lack of talent or composition ability? Deadmau5 and his ilk can't write melodies or basslines worth a damn. On the other hand, whilst I don't enjoy everything Rob Babicz has put out, he is a happy exception to this.

[SlavikSvensk]

i had this discussion a while ago. people doing tribal or harder techno were moaning how minimal ruined techno, how these producers are switching in it for money bla bla bla, then i asked, how come you dont produce something else, i mean, tribal techno is so 2005, get over it. and where is the funk and soul in tracks created with few loops we already heard dozens times (half of which is from sample cds anyway)... then i got the answer, well it still sells so its ok...

so wtf, who is ruining what?! :confused:

good point. i think if people just made good music, with the aim of making "timeless" music (i.e. something that you might actually still want to listen to in 5 or 10 years), there'd be no problem.

instead, too many people make things you'd want to hear out 5 or 10 years ago. and aside from some improvements in production technique, i'm not sure there's much reason to replace older "dj tracks" with new ones.

but songs, i mean memorable ones with some feeling, thoughtfulness and art to them...well, i'll grab those in a second, whether they are techno, minimal or fill-in-the-blanks.

[gunjack]

aren't you the floury cunt

[drift9]

aren't you the floury cunt
what? like a cake?

[SlavikSvensk]

techno's future:

http://www.mytenda.com/tenda/images/goldmedalflour.jpg

[koma]

back to the roots again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAJEX1GtMQE

[gunjack]

techno's future:

http://www.mytenda.com/tenda/images/goldmedalflour.jpg


pastelèro totÃ*l

[The_Laughing_Man]

+1... billion. Vinyl prices are hideous. £8 for a 12" with two tracks and about 15 minutes of music, is it any wonder why people complain?

Oh and why wasn't my other post accepted? I know BOA is music-orientated but the link I posted was relevant! My admittedly non-musical contribution to the "disliking minimalism" crowd: http://casimirsblake.deviantart.com/art/In-Lektrali-141578980

Personally I feel minimalism has become an excuse for poor production, stretching barely-developed musical ideas across tracks that shouldn't be 1 minute, let alone 7. And dare I say, lack of talent or composition ability? Deadmau5 and his ilk can't write melodies or basslines worth a damn. On the other hand, whilst I don't enjoy everything Rob Babicz has put out, he is a happy exception to this.

Actually, as much as I dislike his music, DeadMau5 is pretty good at producing a variety of genres, to a reasonably high standard, in a very effective way.
I just don`t like it.

[Darkmode]

said this a lot in the past, but there is too much of a "track" mentality in techno, not enough of a "song" mentality. people make things with the dancefloor in mind, which is fine, but a lot of producers just crank out product without much thought about how this will stand up over time, or how it will be memorable amid a glut of similar product.

this isn't a new development in any way, shape or form, nor is it unique to techno. but techno isn't new and fresh now either.

I agree I have been saying something like this for quite awhile there is lot of producers out there who have tracks that have no structure when I work on a track I always try to make it structured so it sounds more interesting I look at it as telling a story you have a beginging a middle & an end

there is too many tacks out there that have no soul if you know what I mean?

[SlavikSvensk]

pastelèro totÃ*l

si, pero la ultima harina por el harinero techno es:

http://deleite.es/productos/Harinas/Harina+Blancaflor.jpg

(that logo...WTF?!!?)

[Jay Pace]

there is too many tacks out there that have no soul if you know what I mean?

I agree with this, but there's something tedious about hearing the same story endlessly. And there something refreshing about not really having a story, there's no expectations, predictable builds, drops, woosh woosh cliche's etc.

But go too far down that road and you get a load of dull 6 minute loopy "dj tools" where there's not even a nod to structure.

Some sort of balance needed I guess.

[SlavikSvensk]

I agree with this, but there's something tedious about hearing the same story endlessly. And there something refreshing about not really having a story, there's no expectations, predictable builds, drops, woosh woosh cliche's etc.

But go too far down that road and you get a load of dull 6 minute loopy "dj tools" where there's not even a nod to structure.

Some sort of balance needed I guess.

except that "storyless" techno dj tools are a dime a dozen, and have been for 20+ years.

i count predictable buildups and other cliches part and parcel of what it means to be a "track" and not a "song." honestly, i don't think it's at all about how many changes occur or how much stuff is in there. a lot of the most captivating, timeless techno i know is minimalistic and highly repetative. take maurizio, for example. still sounds great.

to me, it's a question of whether the music has something to say beyond BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-SQUELCH, whether it says something that wasn't said 5, 10 or 20 years ago, and whether or not it might be worth listening to 5, 10 or 20 years down the lane.

[gunjack]

si, pero la ultima harina por el harinero techno es:

http://deleite.es/productos/harinas/harina+blancaflor.jpg

(that logo...wtf?!!?)


a pastelero in spain is someone who likes marco bailey and tom hades etc

[DannyBlack]

*shudder*


Marco Bailey is a plonker. Kissing his 'Muscles' behind the decks... wtf?

[djfilthmonger]

*shudder*


Marco Bailey is a plonker. Kissing his 'Muscles' behind the decks... wtf?

him and tom hades were fairly decent at awakenings. but yeah kissin his muscles behind the stage ha ha!

[gunjack]

ask marco about the yacht party and the bilgewater....

[Martin Dust]

This conversation is like some mnml loop stuck on forever :) Has it charted on Beatport yet lads?

[basslinejunkie]

said this a lot in the past, but there is too much of a "track" mentality in techno, not enough of a "song" mentality. people make things with the dancefloor in mind, which is fine, but a lot of producers just crank out product without much thought about how this will stand up over time, or how it will be memorable amid a glut of similar product.

this isn't a new development in any way, shape or form, nor is it unique to techno. but techno isn't new and fresh now either.

your obviously listening to the wrong techno then, or not looking for good stuff hard enough.

[SlavikSvensk]

a pastelero in spain is someone who likes marco bailey and tom hades etc

http://www.uned.es/experto-industrias-harineras/imagenes/img_harina03.jpg

[SlavikSvensk]

your obviously listening to the wrong techno then, or not looking for good stuff hard enough.

sorry, mate...there's just not lot of it there. some, yes. a lot, no.

but by all means, post 'em if you got 'em.

[DannyBlack]

http://www.uned.es/experto-industrias-harineras/imagenes/img_harina03.jpg

I recently got a part time job as a baker.

I really kneed the dough.

[SlavikSvensk]

your time here will count towards your apprenticeship

[DannyBlack]

The apprenticeship is a must at the moment, I'm on the bread line.

[gunjack]

oh dear god make him stop

[The_Laughing_Man]

Moanimal

[marginmaster]

why did the baker have brown hands?

cos he needed a poo

[DannyBlack]

:lol:


A toast to you sir! good joke.

[DannyBlack]

oh dear god make him stop

Ah ignore my quips mate. I was having one of them days. You know, the kind of day when you're one slice short of a whole loaf.

[teknorich]

si, pero la ultima harina por el harinero techno es:

http://deleite.es/productos/Harinas/Harina+Blancaflor.jpg

(that logo...WTF?!!?)


Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all. The Spanish can be pretty backward when it comes to racism.
I remember when I lived in Barcelona being absolutely shocked to see little chocolate sweets with this character as the symbol on the bag:

http://culturekitchen.com/files/images/chocolate_conguitos.jpg

Wow...

[Chis]

I agree I have been saying something like this for quite awhile there is lot of producers out there who have tracks that have no structure when I work on a track I always try to make it structured so it sounds more interesting I look at it as telling a story you have a beginging a middle & an end

there is too many tacks out there that have no soul if you know what I mean?

I wonder if Darkmode realises just how on the mark he is... Not that there isn't any "tracky" techno in my collection (Surgeon? Go Hiyama?), and not that there isn't a place for such music, but this is a problem with ALL dance music genres since the mid 90s. Lots of generic made-for-club nonsense. I try tremendously hard to avoid that "gradual layering trap" in my own music...

[gunjack]

lots of folks lose perspective and forget that "techno" is a little tiny flea on the dog of music.....

[CTRLS]

except that "storyless" techno dj tools are a dime a dozen, and have been for 20+ years.

i count predictable buildups and other cliches part and parcel of what it means to be a "track" and not a "song." honestly, i don't think it's at all about how many changes occur or how much stuff is in there. a lot of the most captivating, timeless techno i know is minimalistic and highly repetative. take maurizio, for example. still sounds great.

to me, it's a question of whether the music has something to say beyond BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-SQUELCH, whether it says something that wasn't said 5, 10 or 20 years ago, and whether or not it might be worth listening to 5, 10 or 20 years down the lane.

nice post. i rate mills over a lot people because of his concept albums. total sucker for that whole early detroit sci fi thing and following the development up to stuff like one man spaceship. the last planetary album had some very interesting developments too (love that breakdown in temporary suspension). there are few producer that can make music interesting for both the home listener and the dj.

the main thing that made me loose faith in the whole minimal movement was that i saw so many djs adopt a lazy jukebox set format. the tracks did all the work (and badly). loong breakdowns with predictable buildups, then on to the next mix after the drop, repeat. luckily there are people like hawtin that get a lot more serious but its always sad to see music styles adopt a formulated approach.

[AVX23]

like every genre, 90 per cent of it is dogturd. if done right however its great.

not sure why a minimal forum has been added here though, techno and minimal is like dogs and cats.

Not really, I think Robert Hood might have something to say about that.... ;)