History of Techno?

[a X cell]

Oh HAI folks!

Ok, I decided to do some kind of reasearch for my own personal culture about electronic music.
I know about the history of electronic music(even electroacoustic music, which technically came before electronic music). I know about Garage, Chicago, Warehouse, Frankie Knuckles, Detroit, Jeff Mills, Acid House and 303s, blablabla (the very beggining of raves and everything)
You see, I'm pretty much young to get interested in Techno I guess (19) so I pretty much missed the whole gold age of Techno and this kind of stuff that is very specific and no ones can give me informations about it. And even talking to oldschoolers from Quebec city and Montreal, the older I can get is the informations about the first raves in Quebec provinces with Tiga playing Techno in 1993 and stuff.

It's been 2-3 times I've seen you guys talking about "loopy techno that became popular" and "the underground techno scene" and everything (more specifically in the **** minimal thread). I want more informations about it. I want to actually get to know what is the history of the music I love (the whole Techno genre).

Is there any websites in which I can get specific informations about Techno but specifically about Techno? Or can you tell your own experience and what you saw at this time? (I feel like a little boy asking his grandfather about stories of his past)

[MARK ANXIOUS]

In a rough kinda about way:

1970's Kraftwerk/Parliament Funkadelic/George Clinton
1982 - Juan Atkins, aka Cybotron - along with the futurism of the time and the Korg MS20 Synth.
1985-1988 - Chicago house was also happening influenced by disco.
1985-1988 - Juan Atkins influenced Derrick May and Kevin Saunderson in Detroit (all of them were also known as the Belville Three). Detroit techno was born.
1988 - Acid house was the new Chicago thing. Phuture are said to have produced the first 303 record 'Acid Tracks'. But like with anything in the USA, this is open to debate lol.
1989 - Garage took over in NY, influenced by the house sound. But Nu Groove etc also started to produce a more techy sound.
1988-1990 Techno came to Europe in a big way but kicked off in Belgium (R&S/Ferrari Records who did the newbeat thing were heavily influenced by the New York thing at first)
1989/90 - R&S (Belgium) released CJ Bolland/Joey Beltram and eventually Aphex Twin (the whole electronica movement). We also had Frank De Wulf etc. The sound spread to Holland
1989 - Holland took hold of techno and eventually created Gabber.
1989 - UK took hold of techno and eventually made hardcore.

Then we can go on.

Underground Resistance made a real stand against the European imitators who ****ed up techno in the early 90's. Jeff Mills came out of that. Then did Robert Hood - who made the first real 'minimal techno' records...
Richie Hawtin brought in his own sound which also brought back the 303 into techno - a Canadian answer to the UR/Detroit thing. UR also did the whole Acid Rain thing around that time too, so again brought acid into techno.

Then Carl Craig made a stand and shit started to go soulful again.. the second Detroit wave if you like...

Then Woody McBride made the 303 dirty sound in Minneapolis. Drop Bass presented the hard sound too.

Of course the Aphex thing led to Warp and ambient/fax etc. It was a nuts time for music. Rising High was a big UK label for the crossover stuff, then Eye Q made trance, Harthouse, Cari Lekebusch then Planet Rhythm. Cari was the instigator imho for the Swedish sound that then led to the loopy sound, which then became hard techno then schranz....

Then you got a backlash on the form of minimal.

IT goes on...

You can sit for hours documenting it all mate. lol

But that's the basics in my head. You can go soooo deep and argue with me, it's not even funny lol hehee. But I suppose it's each to their own. Each to their own experience. This is definitely not a definitive guide....

And that's what's so amazing about techno :)

This is my personal experience. I've missed out loads I can't think of right now, but I really hope this helps you on your way.....

[Honeey]

This has most types of electronic music but the techno bit is pretty good with sample loops of the music :)
http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/

I think its really cool you love techno :)

[MARK ANXIOUS]

wow i have never seen that thank you so much, and in the 2 minutes i've looked over it, it's seems incredible someone would try to map that in a chart like that lol!!! but i wouldn't be as clear cut as that.. like i say, that's the beauty of techno and music.... it's so personal... sure there was 'big' tracks at each time but you can't say that 1 track influenced the next like in that chart. it's ridiculous it was always a movement of people and a scene.... you have to understand those movements to understand exactly what happened imho. those charts are rough guide but there's alot of presumptions and alot of facts missed out completely.

good luck on your search mate :)

[Francisco Scaramanga]

The best thing I've read on the subject is "last night a DJ saved my life" by Bill Brewster and Frank Broughton, its a history of the DJ, starting with radio DJ's at the turn of the last century and continuing up to right now. It has a great chapter on Techno, as well as house etc, but the reason I thought it superior to other books I've read on the subject of dance music is it didnt start in 1988 or even 1975, it starts from the very beginning of DJing (clubwise twas Jimmy Savile, early 40's), and every further part of the story is totally relevant to the birth of techno and rave music in general, when you view the entire DJ scene as a whole it becomes clear how much techno, house, etc owes to guys that were spinning tunes 40 or 50 years ago, and it also becomes clear that the rave scene was hardly something new as many would have us beleive.

[Si the Sigh]

^ What he said. Really, really good book. You can buy it @ HTFR.

[The_Laughing_Man]

1970's Kraftwerk/Parliament Funkadelic/George Clinton
1982 - Juan Atkins, aka Cybotron - along with the futurism of the time and the Korg MS20 Synth.
1985-1988 - Chicago house was also happening influenced by disco.
1985-1988 - Juan Atkins influenced Derrick May and Kevin Saunderson in Detroit (all of them were also known as the Belville Three). Detroit techno was born.
1988 - Acid house was the new Chicago thing. Phuture are said to have produced the first 303 record 'Acid Tracks'. But like with anything in the USA, this is open to debate lol.
1989 - Garage took over in NY, influenced by the house sound. But Nu Groove etc also started to produce a more techy sound.
1988-1990 Techno came to Europe in a big way but kicked off in Belgium (R&S/Ferrari Records who did the newbeat thing were heavily influenced by the New York thing at first)
1989/90 - R&S (Belgium) released CJ Bolland/Joey Beltram and eventually Aphex Twin (the whole electronica movement). We also had Frank De Wulf etc. The sound spread to Holland
1989 - Holland took hold of techno and eventually created Gabber.
1989 - UK took hold of techno and eventually made hardcore.

This could be disputed as techno was already in europe before 88 as electronic dance music had been gaining interest since the late 70`s with throbbing gristle up to the early 80`s, when clock DVA and other more dance based industrial acts carried things on.
Then came the EBM movement from people like (Belgian) front 242 who in 1984 were already banging out 909 and drum machine based 4 to the floor tracks dance tracks with an abstract futuristic edge. They toured the States that year and arguably had an influence on electronic music there, along with other EBM acts.
Tracks such as Commando, No Shuffle, Special Forces, techno was already alive and well in Europe.

IT is very difficult to trace techno reliably, as everyone likes to take credit, with the Detroit guys having the loudest voices, the only thing that could possibly be traced definitively is the word techno being used to describe electronic dance music.
Electronic music history in europe is very complicated and web like. The american side is much simpler.

[force]

You can probably say that Nitzer Ebb were doing it in 84 then.

[force]

And DAF

[The_Laughing_Man]

There is the whole path in europe tracing back through cabaret voltaire, Gristle and Nick Turner etc
I think the EBM scene in belgium paved the way for R&S, I think some of the same studio people were involved, I had an article about it years ago from an old Sideline magazine

[djfilthmonger]

1970's Kraftwerk/Parliament Funkadelic/George Clinton


Man I love George Clinton and Funkadelic - Maggot Brain some track and album

[Technologic]

Best article i've read is here... http://remixtheory.net/?p=261#more-261

[MARK ANXIOUS]

This could be disputed as techno was already in europe before 88 as electronic dance music had been gaining interest since the late 70`s with throbbing gristle up to the early 80`s, when clock DVA and other more dance based industrial acts carried things on.
Then came the EBM movement from people like (Belgian) front 242 who in 1984 were already banging out 909 and drum machine based 4 to the floor tracks dance tracks with an abstract futuristic edge. They toured the States that year and arguably had an influence on electronic music there, along with other EBM acts.
Tracks such as Commando, No Shuffle, Special Forces, techno was already alive and well in Europe.

IT is very difficult to trace techno reliably, as everyone likes to take credit, with the Detroit guys having the loudest voices, the only thing that could possibly be traced definitively is the word techno being used to describe electronic dance music.
Electronic music history in europe is very complicated and web like. The american side is much simpler.

yes i see what you mean. i never really thought of it like that. to alot of people in europe they wouldnt have given 2 hoots about detroit and the 'soul/futurism' aspect and then suddenly stumbled across a more defined and driving front 242 sound. i've interviewed alot of the early artists over the years and many of the european ones have always quoted those guys. if you think about it, detroit techno and belgian techno are miles apart, whereas front 242 and belgian techno are not. and at the end of the day, it's been the loop based, driving sound that has influenced the majority of modern day 'techno'. so really, like you say, its the word that originated from detroit, whereas the major of modern day 'techno' originates from europe. very interesting eh.

but that's why we love techno!!! it means such different things to so many different people.

:)

[MARK ANXIOUS]

Best article i've read is here... http://remixtheory.net/?p=261#more-261

that is a very, very well written article mate. :smile:

[Technologic]

that is a very, very well written article mate. :smile:

Yeah, the original artical was called "machine soul" by a guy called Rob Savage, the link provided has just done a cut and paste job from http://music.hyperreal.org/library/machine_soul.html

Very interesting stuff though, i just spent the last half an hour reading it for the umpteenth time.

[The_Laughing_Man]

yes i see what you mean. i never really thought of it like that. to alot of people in europe they wouldnt have given 2 hoots about detroit and the 'soul/futurism' aspect and then suddenly stumbled across a more defined and driving front 242 sound. i've interviewed alot of the early artists over the years and many of the european ones have always quoted those guys. if you think about it, detroit techno and belgian techno are miles apart, whereas front 242 and belgian techno are not. and at the end of the day, it's been the loop based, driving sound that has influenced the majority of modern day 'techno'. so really, like you say, its the word that originated from detroit, whereas the major of modern day 'techno' originates from europe. very interesting eh.

but that's why we love techno!!! it means such different things to so many different people.

:)

Yeah, the diverse influences are what (should) keep it interesting. IF it originated from a single source, it wouldn`t have lasted like it has.
I hope it keeps changing and moving forwards.
Where next after the minimal movement?

[DannyBlack]

I think techno is a product of people's individual taste in music mashed up to a deep prehistoric love of constant rhythmic the drum beat.

[gunjack]

sheeeiiiiiit


I invented that shit in 1978

[SlavikSvensk]

IT is very difficult to trace techno reliably, as everyone likes to take credit, with the Detroit guys having the loudest voices, the only thing that could possibly be traced definitively is the word techno being used to describe electronic dance music.


the detroit fellas were influenced by a broader range of european electronic dance music than most people realize. and there's a good argument that 1990s techno has as much to do with dark, minimalist 1980s chicago house as the relatively sunnier and jazzier 1980s detroit techno.

but the fact is that the detroit guys were the ones who made music called techno, and from which later techno directly descends. sure there are other antecedents, some perhaps as important for later developments in techno, but if you want to trace the history of "techno music," you have to look at what the term was first used to describe. that's the direct lineage, with other influences coming into play, and shaping the trajectory of that lineage at various points.

[The_Laughing_Man]

the detroit fellas were influenced by a broader range of european electronic dance music than most people realize. and there's a good argument that 1990s techno has as much to do with dark, minimalist 1980s chicago house as the relatively sunnier and jazzier 1980s detroit techno.

but the fact is that the detroit guys were the ones who made music called techno, and from which later techno directly descends. sure there are other antecedents, some perhaps as important for later developments in techno, but if you want to trace the history of "techno music," you have to look at what the term was first used to describe. that's the direct lineage, with other influences coming into play, and shaping the trajectory of that lineage at various points.

The terms was applied to something that already existed. So yes there are other antecedents. Later techno does not entirely descend from Detroit, it descends from a greater history than just detroit.
This is the entire point.
If we only look at was used to first describe techno, then hardly any techno from the last 15 years can be called techno.
The word techno has been used by many many people to give a name to something that is transient, by it`s own nature for it to capture the zeitgesit, what defines it, will always be, and always has been, hard to define itself.

It`s like trying to define industrial (music). The word was used to give name to a type of music being made by a group of loose associates by an artist called Monte Cazzazza.
However, it didn`t really define anything as such and soon more music came to be made using this name, music that really didn`t sound like the music from this small group, as everyone needed a word to describe this rebellion against current norms and preconceptions, despite the fact that the music being made by all these people wasn`t really that related in musical terms.
Now what people refer to as industrial bares absolutely no resemblence and hardly any relation to what Cazzazza was describing waaaay back at the end of the 70`s.

A name was given to something that existed already. And techno is pretty much the same.
The main difference being that in techno there are bigger egos claiming to be inventors of it.

[SlavikSvensk]

what was the term "techno" used to describe, though? the electronic dance music of detroit. then that term was applied to music directly associated with it, then to music directly associated with that. it's in these second and third phases that a more diverse range of influences come into play than whatever juan, kevin, derrick n' friends were listening to in the 1980s. but techno as techno still stems directly from the detroit tree, and not so directly from that other range of influences.

it's foolish to think there was george clinton and kraftwerk in a few guys' heads and that's where all today's techno music exclusively comes from. but it's too revisionist to go so far in the other direction as to forget that the music called techno comes from detroit; that without detroit, we don't have techno; and that as powerful an influence on techno's development that things like EBM, industrial etc. have been (and arguably more so than detroit stuff in certain corners of techno), they're just not as directly and generally influential on the genre as a whole.

[The_Laughing_Man]

what was the term "techno" used to describe, though? the electronic dance music of detroit. then that term was applied to music directly associated with it, then to music directly associated with that. it's in these second and third phases that a more diverse range of influences come into play than whatever juan, kevin, derrick n' friends were listening to in the 1980s. but techno as techno still stems directly from the detroit tree, and not so directly from that other range of influences.

it's foolish to think there was george clinton and kraftwerk in a few guys' heads and that's where all today's techno music exclusively comes from. but it's too revisionist to go so far in the other direction as to forget that the music called techno comes from detroit; that without detroit, we don't have techno; and that as powerful an influence on techno's development that things like EBM, industrial etc. have been (and arguably more so than detroit stuff in certain corners of techno), they're just not as directly and generally influential on the genre as a whole.

You really haven`t listened to much music that was techno and not from detroit at that time have you.
In the US you might have a point, but in europe things evolved and crossed over in a more diverse, and less clear way.

[a X cell]

D'you guys know it's really interesting to see what you give as informations? I mean, it's really interesting to get at least something different than all the documentaries with interviews from Jeff Mills, Derrick May, Laurent Garnier, blablabla.

I knew the website from techno.org but it's not really updated since 2004. However, it gives you an idea of what you like, what you do not like. (ok, the informations you can get on every styles is biaised but whatever...)

I'll read these articles now.

[SlavikSvensk]

You really haven`t listened to much music that was techno and not from detroit at that time have you.
In the US you might have a point, but in europe things evolved and crossed over in a more diverse, and less clear way.

:lol: :lol:

you really do talk some ****, don't you? mate, i was into industrial/ebm/new wave and a host of other influences on techno YYYYEEEEAAAARRRRSSSSS before i started listening to actual techno. i recognize why these and other musical forms (electro-acoustic classical, anyone?) are important to the story of techno.

but you're being overly revisionist. if you look at techno historically, you see a very linear progression of the music from detroit, and its differentiation as non-techno music traditions combine with existing and previous techno music to form new subgenres and directions. so YES, those traditions are veeeerrrry important. but not so generally important, in the sense that they only become important somewhere down the time trail, and even then, much more on certain quarters of the expanding genre than others. at the same time, the influence of detroit dilutes and becomes tangential in certain quarters of the genre. yet that direct and impossible to ignore lineage remains.

the 'reflexive detroit' and 'reflexively anti-detroit' dogmas are just so limiting.

[The_Laughing_Man]

I don`t take either side.
I don`t think detroit is soley responsible for anything, as it was already happening, and I don`t think that the history of industrial, musique concrete, minimalism, noise and anti music is soley responsible either as in itself it was so diverse it is hard to actually place it in a box and define it, and it was itself caught up in a web of influencial feedback.

However I think the european path of techno simply isn`t as clear cut, as everyone was already dancing to techno and suddenly a name came along that labeled a sub genre of electronic dance music. There has always been a more arty side of all electronic genres in europe, slightly moreso than stateside.

Yes I do talk shit, no more than yourself though, you probably just can`t smell it as well.