Ben Simms & Surgeon Etc @ Split - Turnmills 8th Feb 2004

[Tiddlypeep]

****ing hell this was an absolute awesome night!. Simms was excellent as per usual as was Oliver Ho and Derrick May where good 2.

Star of the show however was the man like Surgeon!!!!. The first time I have had the pleasure of hearing this man and I was well impressed. Filthy and Nasty hard techno which totally messed with my head!!.

Does he play anywhere in Scotland as I would like to see him closer to home??.

Will :)

[DJ Corbzy]

Couple of mates of mine went to this ;)

[buster]

Surgeon is just the best - end of story. :rambo: :rambo:

[Tiddlypeep]

Surgeon is just the best - end of story. :rambo: :rambo:

It was the shit he was playing!. I have never heard anything like it before!. Loads of Old Skool samples and his sound was so agressive and raw!. It was awesome. My mates called it 'Industrial Techno'.

Will :)

[Tony]

nice one lads, welcome to the darkside. now find some regis, and a bit of scorn and you're laughing :-)

[The Overfiend]

Did Oliver Ho play hard or new found naptime?

[DJ Corbzy]

Surgeon is just the best - end of story. :rambo: :rambo:

It was the shit he was playing!. I have never heard anything like it before!. Loads of Old Skool samples and his sound was so agressive and raw!. It was awesome. My mates called it 'Industrial Techno'.

Will :)

Apparently he was using a Laptop to Re-edit tracks or something??

[Buttman]

Apparently he was using a Laptop to Re-edit tracks or something??

Where have you been the last two years? ;)

http://www.finalscratch.com

[DJ Corbzy]

Apparently he was using a Laptop to Re-edit tracks or something??

Where have you been the last two years? ;)

http://www.finalscratch.com

Cheers Buttman.. :clap:

[one]

didnt even know that oliver ho could play :twisted:

[tioneb]

theres my review of the nite in the techno events forum

oliver ho played with ableton live + midi controller ... he used the "live" section of hte soft chainging from one loop to another and controlling mixer + effects with the midi control ...

no pre-sequenced tracks, just a small piece of paper .. what i call a good live act !!

the nite was amazing, yeah.. too bad i havent heard surgeon, but the description of his set is just the usual thing hes been doing for year now

[one]

oh, well thank allah it was a live act

[daviec]

What a night. That was superb. :clap:

Sims and Finke kicked things of superbly. I wasn't overly impressed with Derrick May, but it wasn't bad. Oliver Ho was good, and Surgeon... ****ing hell. Made my night. Just made my night. Evil, twisted beats. As tiddlypeep said, it was raw, full of energy, just quality. :clap: :twisted: :clap:

I'm in the process of uploading some pics to my site. I'll link it when it's ready.

[paranoid666]

Does he play anywhere in Scotland as I would like to see him closer to home??.

Will :)[/quote]

Surgeon and Regis are doing there BMB thing at the beginning of March at Dogma in Edinburgh

[daviec]

Apologies for not shrinking the pics before I uploaded them :roll:

Split Photos (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/davie.clark/Split.html)

[tioneb]

some kew pics !! i wish you had taken more pics of the girls there .. they were (almost) all pretty !!

[miromiric.]

they are all older in the club.
i also noticed that lots of people have really strange skin color and very big eyes.

[ampassasinbirmingham]

Ouch. I Feel sore :eh:

sims and finke-nice( liked finke playing it a bit more cooler)
Ho live- nice
Derrick may-3hours a bit too much but again nice
Surgeon- same set but different order to Hog the week b4 but still the highlight of my night. lots of re fuked aphex, drum and bass, kraftwerk, whitehouse, nitzy,

i have mixed feelings of the night. The music was way way above par. so were the people......

Its just there were two many of them. You couldnt walk from one side of the dance floor to the other in half an hour. It was £4 for a beer :shock:

but im just being a pesimistic fuker and want that sorta line up down the local social club.

wiked night



Nice one Matt 303, Patrick, TioneB and anyone else i met. Paranoid- Nice to meetyou again and i look 4ward to many a good grimy night with ya in the future.

[ampassasinbirmingham]

also, surgeon isnt using final scratch as of l8ly. He has been djing using chopped loops etc with ableton live and a midi contoller.

[miromiric.]

4 punds?!?! when we went to slovakia it was like half of a pound i think.

[Buttman]

also, surgeon isnt using final scratch as of l8ly. He has been djing using chopped loops etc with ableton live and a midi contoller.


Really?? I never heard of that.

[Buttman]

4 punds?!?! when we went to slovakia it was like half of a pound i think.

Less!

[matt303]

Top night indeed, amp nice to met you too. Ho and Surgeon were exceptional.

[g]

also, surgeon isnt using final scratch as of l8ly. He has been djing using chopped loops etc with ableton live and a midi contoller.


Really?? I never heard of that.


sure he wasn't doing both?

[serox]

big eyes maybe too much fuking E. looks like alot of gurners

[ampassasinbirmingham]

also, surgeon isnt using final scratch as of l8ly. He has been djing using chopped loops etc with ableton live and a midi contoller.


Really?? I never heard of that.


sure he wasn't doing both?

i didnt think he was? i didnt see him use phones once

[Buttman]

i didnt think he was? i didnt see him use phones once

Why use headphones when playing with FS? You can read the BPM instead of hearing it.

[TripleX]

really it has a beatcounter in it :shock:
didn´t know that :eh:

[schlongfingers]

i didnt think he was? i didnt see him use phones once

Why use headphones when playing with FS? You can read the BPM instead of hearing it.

Beatcounters are notoriously dodgy tho, you can't use one effectively with final scratch in the same way you can't use one on a mixer or a deck

[Buttman]

Maybe he timestretched all his mp3s to 134bpm?

[schlongfingers]

Maybe he timestretched all his mp3s to 134bpm?

I guess he could have, does FS still run on BEOS tho? If so, as far as I'm aware it would be impossible to run FS and Ableton at the same time on the same laptop.

Whatever he's using, I really think these are exciting times in terms of live processor based audio manipulation - the developments that have been made even within the last 3 years are amazing , then again I guess the last 30 years have been astonishing in terms of technological development!

[ampassasinbirmingham]

plus butty i stood and watched him use ableton and a midi controler for an hour.

[g]

Maybe he timestretched all his mp3s to 134bpm?

I guess he could have, does FS still run on BEOS tho? If so, as far as I'm aware it would be impossible to run FS and Ableton at the same time on the same laptop.

Whatever he's using, I really think these are exciting times in terms of live processor based audio manipulation - the developments that have been made even within the last 3 years are amazing , then again I guess the last 30 years have been astonishing in terms of technological development!

no, it runs on osx and embedded linux under xp. soon to be native on xp. regardless, interesting that he's doing all-ableton sets

[Stuart]

plus butty i stood and watched him use ableton and a midi controler for an hour.

Ableton beat matchs for you as such so there is absolutly no skill in playing a DJ set with it.

[miromiric.]

well beatmatching is boring and it unecessarily takes your time.

[ampassasinbirmingham]

plus butty i stood and watched him use ableton and a midi controler for an hour.

Ableton beat matchs for you as such so there is absolutly no skill in playing a DJ set with it.

he dj's with it in an inovative way tho. he doesnt just mix tracks. he chops loops from records and combines them to create live fuked up shenanigans. lots of the tunes he plays are his remakes of other peeps tracks. he will constantly have at least two seperate loops playing at once.

[ampassasinbirmingham]

it takes things to the next level. Why mess around with beat matching if you can make things sound a hundred times better without? ;)

[split]

a big big thanks to all who turned out, especially those who travelled from far away, it was a very successful night and obviously there's a couple of issues we'll bear in mind for the next one but overall it was an extremely positive start to the project and we're happy.

watch out for....
split vs atomic jam. may 1st.
retro_vert 005. june 12th
plus some special one off nights in the summer.

thanks for your support.
split/rv crew.Â*

[ampassasinbirmingham]

saw the split aj thing in the toilet. wonder what thats gonna be like?

anyone got any info????????? :?:

[paranoid666]

Split is there any chance your gonna have another boat party in the summer.
Cant beat bombing up and down the river thames drinking beer and listening to techno.

[split]

at least one, yes.

[daviec]

Oh **** yeah! I'd be well up for a boat party. That sounds tremendous. :love:

[tioneb]

about beatmatch stuff well to me its part of the dj work ... why not instead playing a recorded set and drinking beers....

nd yeah amp is right, the crowd was so ****ing dense ... too bad nobody did some crowd diving from the place above the floor...

[miromiric.]

well why beatmatching exists? cause when djing was invented there wasnt any other way to merge two tunes together.

why dont you go play acoustic guitar or something?

[tioneb]

well why beatmatching exists? cause when djing was invented there wasnt any other way to merge two tunes together.

why dont you go play acoustic guitar or something?

now some kewl samplers exist you dont have to produce your owns.. just rip surgeon's ones and you will sound the same ... youre using your skills in a useless way

[serox]

for me the skill in beat matching quickly is the reason i like to watch/listen to a set.


i rem seeing acardipane like 9 years ago when he was doing live PA's. using keyboard, drum machines etc. was crazy seeing someone program the sounds live and then play with them.

this Ableton is taking all the fun out of it i think. is not fun to watch at all.

id rather see som1 playing with records and hearing people touching things. rather then him pushin buttons on laptop....

[miromiric.]

this Ableton is taking all the fun out of it i think. is not fun to watch at all.

....


LOL

[miromiric.]

now some kewl samplers exist you dont have to produce your owns.. just rip surgeon's ones and you will sound the same ... youre using your skills in a useless way


i didnt understand a one bit what you said.

[DROID]

high fives to the gal with the short skirt :love:

[serox]

is true, i find it so boring watching some playing with a laptop. you have to be able to seee exactly what he is doing on the screen to really understand

watching from the floor is zzzzzzzz :(

[ampassasinbirmingham]

high fives to the gal with the short skirt :love:

back atcha:):)

also the friend that rubbed her body like a stripper a lot

a boat party ehh :doh: sounds iteresting? How big was the boat?

[Patrick]

I posted my thoughts on this in the Events thread.

Top night.

Good to meet you finally, Billy.

[ampassasinbirmingham]

you finally made it back after the weekend;)

[Patrick]

you finally made it back after the weekend;)

I made it back home late monday night - I was just feeling too evil to talk to anyone yesterday ! :twisted: :lol: :twisted: :lol:

[stefano1981]

Have to agree with the people who loved Surgeon, recombining loops taken from a huge array of tracks is not easy. Not every loop goes together, you have to know which ones to combine and which ones not to. I can't believe people are more interested in what they see a DJ doing than what's coming out of the speakers. Doesn't make any sense to me. What we basically saw was a man at the top of his game making improvised banging techno and if I had to choose I'd much rather see that than some guy playing other people's records (obviously Surgeon was using other people's loops, but the way he combined them created something new and something that changes from gig to gig, so no two shows are exactly alike). Also, did anyone else think Derrick disappeared up his own arse a lot of the time, especially the last hour. Very disappointed because I was expecting a lot better.

[serox]

playing other peoples loops on a laptop is any better than playing other peoples records?

why not just make the music live like some people do.

see them tapping out the sounds and getting kicks started then bring in some other sounds etc

fuk starting/stopping pre programmed loops


for me it is not entertaining. lacks energy...

[stefano1981]

Lacks energy? Yeah, I was asleep when Surgeon was playing it was so sedate. ;)

[serox]

:lol:

is just missing somthing for me at the moment. im sure more can be done with this software then is being used right now.

i still want prefer watching people making it all live, just have files of differant kicks / sounds. then program them live

[stefano1981]

I understand you, of course someone playing live is great but as far as DJing goes I think recombining peoples records in novel and unrepeatable ways like Surgeon was is a big step forward for that particular way of playing music. People will always want to hear DJs play music from many different producers and I think this is a much more interesting and creative way of doing that, that's all. :)

[g]

all the anti-laptop sentiment is hilarious, imo. what the hell is an mpc or a sequencer or the like? -- a music computer. laptops are just the same thing with different software and a better display. they are no more or less entertaining to watch than a typical live pa, save those of rudiman or ppl who are totally flying by the seat of their pants.

if you get really skilled using ableton it can be just as improvisational, just as spur of the moment. and whether or not the person looks interesting while doing it means f*ck all. you can't see them most of the freaking time anyway. does it sound good? then it is.

[tioneb]

the topic was more about laptop djing....
laptop lives can be interesting if they are well done and they can be as much "lively" as regular lives ...


but thats true the laptop thingy removes a part of the show

[g]

same goes for laptop djing, if it's done as well as mr. child does it.

besides, as miro more or less said, beatmatching is a skill born out of necessity, not preference

[split]

personally i find the way tony is doing it very exciting (using LIVE to dj), the possiblities for manipulation of music is endless and you can create true mastermixes and edits live, with turntables you are restricted to how many hands you have because you always have to worry about tracks going out of time and you can only use a certain amount of layers of music because of that, using a laptop for dj-ing in this way is a step foward.
i've been quoted as saying final scratch dj's look like they are checking their emails and i stick to that, fs offers at best nothing more than the convience of being able to carry more tracks around with you , it offers nothing more in the way of manipulation of music or originality of mixing style because you are still just mixing with turntables as before.
many people justify using fs by saying they can test out their own unreleased material with it but you can do that with a cdr (which actually sound much better anyway).
it will be interesting to see how things develop over the next few months as more and more dj's have a go (myself included) at using LIVE as a dj tool.

[G-BO]

that line-up looks fantastic would go to the lengths of ireland to catch a line-up like that, just aint a big a market for it over here

[Boboagogo]

dublins pretty kickin atm G. Speedy J (Live) + Ellen Allien @ electri city on a thursday nite says it all...plus mulero next week. got to make a trip down there sometime..

[tioneb]

dublins pretty kickin atm G. Speedy J (Live) + Ellen Allien @ electri city on a thursday nite says it all...plus mulero next week. got to make a trip down there sometime..

when i was in Dublin last summer i thought that was most "electronic music involved" city ... loads and loads of people feeling concerned by this music, and though i have been there only one week end, i could see almost each week theres a nice party there .. electric city is really kewl partiy and there are some other good aswell

[serox]

looks like he is checking email, haha

[stefano1981]

Boboagogo, why didn't you make the trip over like I did. :) Seriously though, we may not be getting the big names over to Dublin but there a loads of small nights (run by people who really care about the music and their customers) bringing over unusual guests that have never been seen here before. I think that's much better. I can go abroad to see the huge names and I don't have to worry about all the clubs closing at 3am either.

[serox]

lived in ireland for 4 years. thought was terrible for going out. i rem when i saw jeff mills like when i first got there and no1 turned up lol. also when i was at a dave clarke night at red box and i was talking with some people inside and was saying i didnt rate the night much, i thought dave clarke was not on form. they asked me who he was

found alot of the clubs were full of knackers or blokes trying pull women.

[stefano1981]

Yeah that Mills gig has been talked about for a long time. One of the decks was also broken and he was apparently furious. Things have definitely changed though, nearly all the big clubs are gone and it's gone back to the smaller clubs with people there for the music. Also, the last three times Mills has played it's been ridiculously packed and ruining the night for a lot people, so I heard.

[serox]

yes heard things have changed since then. but ireland was not ready for techno when i was there i think, shame.

is kitchen, mono red box still there tho right? also switch was dark n moody :)

red box has the worse layout for a club i ever seen, people just seem to be walin around on the dance floor going somwhere

[stefano1981]

Red Box refurbished a while ago and is still a nightmare designwise. I rarely go there becasue there is nothing of interest to me there. Mono is gone, so is Switch (music policy and name change, it's now called the Hub) although they've recently brought techno back to the Tuesday slot in there. The Kitchen closed down a while back, no real lose because there was rarely anything of interest on. Dunno about Dublin not being ready for techno when you were there. For starters that Mills gig was on a Thursday which obviously hit attendence, there was UFO at Columbia Mills, D1 @ The Funnel and Genius @ The Kitchen around about that time. They were all very well respected techno nights and D1 is still running although they are now in a club called Traffic. Also, there were tons of techno nights on (something a lot of people used to complain of) around the time Mono, Switch et al were in their heyday.

[Boboagogo]

if i had the cash i would def be travelling about but i barely have enough to make it to the local nights + buying records etc leaves me pretty skint...finishing my music course in a few months so hopefully when i get a proper job ill be able to make a few trips down to dublin, the lineups are quality!

[tioneb]

what do you think about bodkins ??? Damn this place is ****king crazy :lol:

[stefano1981]

Yeah, love Bodkins and they have Slobodan playing in the near future for Let Loose. That'll be good'un. :)

[Tony]

we have final scratch in our flat, and it takes just as much skill to sound good on it as it does just normal decks. its very very close to the real thing, yet you interact with a computer instead of a record bag (i know you all know this) and beleive me, i still beat juggle, offbeat scratch, drop scratch and **** around as much as usual. the one bonus being you can do two copies of the same tune for every tune you've mp3d. if you're a whack dj you'll be just as bad on final scratch and prob a little more confused.

[ampassasinbirmingham]

if you're a whack dj you'll be just as bad on final scratch and prob a little more confused.

thats u ****ed then tony;)

U going toi the next HOG? didnt c ya at last one?