techno production (2000-2004) compared to todays sound....

[Radic]

what are the main differences in your opinion between techno production from around 2000-2004 to today's techno?

I'm not talking about the style of music or anything like that, just the actual techniques used. I ask this cuz i own 2 or 3 hundred ep's from that era and whenever i pull them from their shelves for a mix each ep has a sound from that era that i find totally distinguishable from today's sound.

were more people making techno with mpc's from that era?
does tape have anything to do with it?
is it because so much of todays production incorporates so much digital?

so yeah the key factors. your opinions please
(maybe i should have posted this in the production forum, my apologies)

[DannyBlack]

Techno from 2000-2004 had balls. Todays doesn't.

[ritaheed]

People were still making music on machines with analogue desks etc - gives it more of a real raw sound compared to todays polished off digital stuff

Thats what ive noticed about some of todays techno peeps - the sound is too clean, to digitised if tht makes sense - techno shouldnt be clean, it should sound real n raw and in yer face

Just my opinion tho :)

[teknorich]

+1

[morbid]

I think some of it has to do with the mastering process

A lot of techno on big labels at the time (P. Rhythm, Compound, Punish etc etc was going through either Lawrie @ CurvePusher or Nilz @The Exchange

I think those 2 engineers and their equipment played a massive part in the sound your talking about

[ritaheed]

aye that Nilz @ the exchange was the business - im sure he done the stigmata serious - those releases were heavy

[Mattias_Fridell]

The music today doesn't contain the real raw intensive power the music from the 200-2004 era had, also today much is of course slower. I come from those early 2000 years with my first records and some people I meet asks me to go back and do that style again hehe, flattering but boring. I have tons of opinions about this subject and I really miss much of the attitude the music had before compared to now, but then again keeping up the old sound forever would be boring. One thing is sure, 2010 needs the raw feeling and classic attitude of Techno we had back then but not many is pushing it. Personally I like to dip my fingers into everything when it comes to Techno and sub-genres but Im really burning for getting older Techno into a new modern package.

[Jay Pace]

Different mastering, different production equipment, but mainly (I guess) a different type of techno.

Depends what genre you're talking about as well I guess. DE:9 closer to the edit came out in 2001. I don't here that much difference between that album and most of the similar minimal stuff thats coming out today.

[tekara]

Not enough substance to the stuff out there nowadays, but to put a whole blanket statement and say that the entire genre is boring now would be overdoing it. The fact is that there is some decent techno out there, just have to siff through more garbage in order to get there.

What I do find distinguishable between the stuff nowadays is that techno sounds more "progressive". I mean progressive as in more dance friendly formulaic production techniques (high pass filter sweeps, drum roll snares, etc). These things rarely happened in 2000-2004. It's not as loopy and pumping as it used to be.

It almost sounds like all the major players in the techno industry had a secret board meeting and all unanimously agreed to shift the techno 20 BPM lower, use less elements in a track, but drench every track in reverb.

Not to sound fussy or anything, but if I hear ONE MORE techno track that consists only of a drum kick with a reverberated bleep or blop, and the build up consists of him opening up a cut off filter for 32 bars and calling it a day, i'm gonna strangle myself.

[-LETHAL-ONE-]

Not to sound fussy or anything, but if I hear ONE MORE techno track that consists only of a drum kick with a reverberated bleep or blop, and the build up consists of him opening up a cut off filter for 32 bars and calling it a day, i'm gonna strangle myself.


You and me both pal....

[Radic]

but the thing is is that even the slower stuff of that era (130-134bpm) still had a similar sound to the faster stuff. The overall sound somewhere around 2004-06 just went BANG and all of a sudden a new sound emerged.

was the mpc 2000xl influential in the techno of the 2000-04 era?
was sampling old records more of a thing back then compared to todays sound?

[Jay Pace]

Not to sound fussy or anything, but if I hear ONE MORE techno track that consists only of a drum kick with a reverberated bleep or blop, and the build up consists of him opening up a cut off filter for 32 bars and calling it a day, i'm gonna strangle myself.

:lol:

Although, that being said - thats was pretty much Josh Wink's production formula for a while.

Get loop.
Apply reverb.
Take out loop, leave reverb
Filter reverb.
All back in again. Hands in the air, cry at the intensity of it all, hug a stranger, shit pants, cut wrists on monday morning.

[-LETHAL-ONE-]

yep.....

[-LETHAL-ONE-]

People were still making music on machines with analogue desks etc - gives it more of a real raw sound compared to todays polished off digital stuff

Thats what ive noticed about some of todays techno peeps - the sound is too clean, to digitised if tht makes sense - techno shouldnt be clean, it should sound real n raw and in yer face

Just my opinion tho :)

Im still using a Roland mv8800+mv8000 with a 32ch mixing desk along with 3 Nord, 1 Roland, and 1 Moog synth... F_ck it.... Call me old fashioned..... :eek:

[ritaheed]

Im still using a Roland mv8800+mv8000 with a 32ch mixing desk along with 3 Nord, 1 Roland, and 1 Moog synth... F_ck it.... Call me old fashioned..... :eek:

nice one man :) good to hear that - got a couple of dave smith synths, a doepfer synth and a few drum modules - they alll sound banging

want a big desk tho - no gna happen any time soon tho

[miss kosmix]

also the digital era has provided for a lot of crap out there, undermining the real quality releases, this didn't happen 10 years ago when tracks had to be of good quality to get released. Nowadays anyone can release any sh*t they like, it's free...

[Mattias_Fridell]

What Miss Kosmix said hold true.

[The Overfiend]

Loads of differences.
And I do agree that Lawrie and Nilz had a huge part in that.
Also I think the difference is that today there is more attention to detail in what is considered quality as compared to a throwaway track.
Mattias I am so guilty of asking you for the fast stuff, I admit it.
I just had this discussion with Glenn about tempo and energy.
Now the sound is clearer, and a good amount of producers are paying more attention to what is done behind the scenes sonically.
Ritahead is right that most people have turned their backs on the gritty-ness of it all and have gone for more refined and quality sounds.
I don't think I will snap out of the speed of 136-143 ish area.
But I can at least write at those speeds with higher production values.
I do miss the old days, but I do sense there is hope for us Hard Techno heads in the sense of not having to deal with the confusion with the s word anymore.

[The Overfiend]

YouTube - Green velvet - The Stalker (Laidback Luke Extended Mix) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9StwKwJc-J8)

1996 :)

[BloodStar]

there is much wider pallete of sounds and textures in today's techno sound. that is what i like,. also production values are now much higher that 5-10 years ago,. some of today's music sounds too digital, that is true. some people are releasing 3-5 eps a month, which is self-destroying, but on the other hand, if there is a target group, then fair play.

what i think, peoplegot tired of still the same loopy 4x4 bashing. this is really not that interesting to people anymore. bit sad, but true. new forms, more experiments, wider sound spectrum + real production values, that is what i want to hear in today's music.

[Mattias_Fridell]

Mattias I am so guilty of asking you for the fast stuff, I admit it.
I just had this discussion with Glenn about tempo and energy.
Now the sound is clearer, and a good amount of producers are paying more attention to what is done behind the scenes sonically.


Me & Glenn is discussing this a lot and about how energy translates & works with slower tempo & clearer sound. I'm definitely hooked with slower tempo but raw energy like from the 2000-2004 era, refined to todays environment in the scene. Just feels not enough people are doing this and is either stuck in old ideal or just converted to bandwagon sound. Classic feeling and intensity in new package is high in demand me thinks.

[ritaheed]

Classic feeling and intensity in new package is high in demand me thinks.

Yeah I know what you mean - I was listening to a remix by the Space djz of an A.Paul track and I couldnt work out if it was proper techno or minumal(ish). Kinda came to the conclusion that it was kinda proper techno but just had the clear, digital sounds of today.

Dont get me wrong it wasnt full on proper techno but it did have that element in it with minimalish elements aswell

Was a bit surprised to hear Mike Humphries free download sounding the way it sounded.
It was still braw though :)

[teknorich]

A lot of what is called Techno now just sounds like harder minimal to me. The distinction has become very blurred. In the A.Paul thread, Mark EG said that Naked Lunch is one of the few labels keeping hard techno alive, but tbh I'm not sure how much of their output I'd even call hard techno. It is faster than minimal, but a lot of it is just as smooth, with similar production values, and overall not a very "hard" or rough sound.

(Even look at what the Advent and Industrialyzer are doing now - is that techno or minimal?! Generally around 135+ BPM which puts it in the techno category, but it has very much a smoothly produced, minimal sound to it)

In the recent Glenn Wilson mix which was posted up, there was a new remix of "Aural Exciter," the original of which was an absolute BEAST of a tune, but the new 2010 remix sounds much much weaker, flatter and less powerful than the original. I know things have changed, and styles have moved on, but that new remix just doesn't come close to the tough attitude and sound of the original, which is a real pity.

It's a difficult one - play too hard and scare the audience away, or give in too much to the "new techno" crowd and water it down...

[teknorich]

@ Matthias - am gonna check out some of your newer stuff when I get home tonight . I definitely like the idea of what you said; keeping the roughness and energy of the old style techno, but repackaging it in a way which works in the present day. You got me curious to hear what you're up to!

[ritaheed]

A lot of what is called Techno now just sounds like harder minimal to me. The distinction has become very blurred. In the A.Paul thread, Mark EG said that Naked Lunch is one of the few labels keeping hard techno alive, but tbh I'm not sure how much of their output I'd even call hard techno. It is faster than minimal, but a lot of it is just as smooth, with similar production values, and overall not a very "hard" or rough sound.

(Even look at what the Advent and Industrialyzer are doing now - is that techno or minimal?! Generally around 135+ BPM which puts it in the techno category, but it has very much a smoothly produced, minimal sound to it)

In the recent Glenn Wilson mix which was posted up, there was a new remix of "Aural Exciter," the original of which was an absolute BEAST of a tune, but the new 2010 remix sounds much much weaker, flatter and less powerful than the original. I know things have changed, and styles have moved on, but that new remix just doesn't come close to the tough attitude and sound of the original, which is a real pity.

It's a difficult one - play too hard and scare the audience away, or give in too much to the "new techno" crowd and water it down...

exactly mate - 100% agree with you

everything is really blured the now - ppl who have not been into techno do call this harder minimal sound techno

aye a was surprised with glen wilsons mix aswell - a thought him being the daddy of hard techno (hereo's, punish etc) that it would have been along those lines

a do think the style of techno has really changed but this should not mean that the proper hard techno that were talking about has to go

Dj Ogi is hard techno and schranz and I do like him but I do think his stuff sounds really similar with each release and just doesnt cut it from the real hard techno a few year ago.

Dont think the hard techno where looking for is going to come back anytime soon - from going to festivals abroad its basically all minimal and schranz - its mental how the european schranz crowd like to call schranz "hard techno" - in my book it defo aint

[Mattias_Fridell]

@ Matthias - am gonna check out some of your newer stuff when I get home tonight . I definitely like the idea of what you said; keeping the roughness and energy of the old style techno, but repackaging it in a way which works in the present day. You got me curious to hear what you're up to!

Please do, just don't listen 1 EP and tell me it's 127 BPM Techno before you take a listen to more stuff hehe, I do a lot. The good thing about today is that I can stamp my name on more then just 1 style, before I had to use aliases when I made some dub stuff or more scaled music. The stuff I've done for Tontek, Foot Fetish and others is more what Im talking about though most of it is upcoming. If you liked Glenn's Motion mix I can reveal that some tunes there is coming from me.

[ritaheed]

Please do, just don't listen 1 EP and tell me it's 127 BPM Techno before you take a listen to more stuff hehe, I do a lot. The good thing about today is that I can stamp my name on more then just 1 style, before I had to use aliases when I made some dub stuff or more scaled music. The stuff I've done for Tontek, Foot Fetish and others is more what Im talking about though most of it is upcoming. If you liked Glenn's Motion mix I can reveal that some tunes there is coming from me.

Just checked you out man - stomping stuff :) - really like the tougher sound youve got going on.
Will defo be making a purchase of your stuff in the future :)

[The Overfiend]

Went on Juno and yes, the Hard Techno game has it twisted right now.
Sorry to say it.
But I heard Nothing Hard Tech at all.

[ritaheed]

Went on Juno and yes, the Hard Techno game has it twisted right now.
Sorry to say it.
But I heard Nothing Hard Tech at all.

did you just search the latest releases?

[Mattias_Fridell]

Sweet, thanks Ritaheed

[justin schumacher]

there is much wider pallete of sounds and textures in today's techno sound. that is what i like,. also production values are now much higher that 5-10 years ago,. some of today's music sounds too digital, that is true. some people are releasing 3-5 eps a month, which is self-destroying, but on the other hand, if there is a target group, then fair play.

what i think, peoplegot tired of still the same loopy 4x4 bashing. this is really not that interesting to people anymore. bit sad, but true. new forms, more experiments, wider sound spectrum + real production values, that is what i want to hear in today's music.

this


was listening to some records from that era the other night and almost forgot about the energy those tracks used to bring. it is without question missing from todays definition of techno.
but lets be honest.....at a party....unless the sound system was absolutely pristine, the subtle nuances and grooves of compressed drum loop techno would sound like a wash of harsh upper-mid/high frequencies....coupled with a muddy thundering low end. after a while, my ears would hate me.

there is no reason....with todays technology..... that we cant have the same grit and energy in techno, but just cleaned up with more interesting arrangements and sound sculpting/automation.

imo....thats what advent and industrialyzer, virgil enzinger bring to the table (as far as harder techno).......but to call THAT minimalish.....really???

i really like what Sawf is doing as well......just pitch it up a bit

[The Overfiend]

Ritaheed I looked in the past 8 weeks, and was sorely disappointed.
Justin, your response gets the high five.
I can't remember a time in any Nyc club where I said, damn that sound is so defined, lol.
Except in Limelight and the sound in Twilo was dope when it was around.

[ritaheed]

in yer face rawness :) :)

YouTube - Damon Wild - Rotary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ7-OARabgA)

this is what gets me moving - 1998 aswell - oooooft

[ritaheed]

YouTube - Cold Dust - AA1 - Nervehammer (Michael Forshaw Mix) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCTf2i5GdMk&feature=related)

a played this out once and every one went nuts :)

[qUE]

The way Techno is made nowerdays is generally very different to back in the 90s. I'm not sure how many artists still use a real 909, or any other analog gear for that matter.

Most of the people I've seen play out "live", use laptops. Which with any music software available for both Mac and Windows, as soon as you try to overdrive anything it just sounds awful, no serious grunt to it at all.

I certainly miss the days of Chicago and Kalamazoo stuff making it over to the UK, but then those records I have are still great imho.

[morbid]

Most of the people I've seen play out "live", use laptops.

bring back the days of lugging your CRT monitor to a gig innit

http://www.discogs.com/image/A-150-19996-1083265310.jpg

http://www.loopz.co.uk/tours/images/Dublin2000/live2.jpg

proper techno

[drift9]

Except in Limelight and the sound in Twilo was dope when it was around.
those were some good times, but now gone forever with nothing really to take its place.
and now Limelight is a shopping mall...
shopping mall.

[The Overfiend]

Limelight, a shopping mall? Are you kidding me?
I had some of the best times of my life for years on end in that place, and now it's a mall?

[drift9]

yeah. the below article has some of the ground plans for it. i might have to walk in their one day for the pure head fck of the whole thing.

The New Limelight Shopping Mall Makes Former Club Kids Weep (http://gawker.com/5408609/the-new-limelight-shopping-mall-makes-former-club-kids-weep/gallery/)

[teknorich]

"They paved paradise, and put up a parking lot..."

[teknorich]

@ Ritaheed - some quality tracks there mate, proper all-out Techno. Nice one!

[ritaheed]

@ Ritaheed - some quality tracks there mate, proper all-out Techno. Nice one!

aye to right mate :)

[Patrick DSP]

proper thread!! spot on.

[The Overfiend]

Ok found some treats

Palicavonzvreca 8 at Juno Records (http://www.juno.co.uk/products/390998-01.htm)

Antistius Higgs at Juno Records (http://www.juno.co.uk/products/392444-01.htm)
If Beyer produced this at 140 it would have been the shizz for liz!

Peaktime EP at Juno Records (http://www.juno.co.uk/products/393293-01.htm)

The Shard at Juno Records (http://www.juno.co.uk/products/392332-01.htm)

The Jagger at Juno Records (http://www.juno.co.uk/products/391734-01.htm)

http://cdn.images.juno.co.uk/full/CS391734-01A-BIG.jpg

This record for president right now.

[The Overfiend]

Come Well Tomorrow at Juno Records (http://www.juno.co.uk/products/389739-01.htm)

Whoever this guy is, he's on it

Raul Mezcolanza

[ritaheed]

will check this when im not in a nick - got mega pished last night - what a night :)

[Mattias_Fridell]

Speaking of raw techno 2000-2004 in modern packages and so on, it's official that me & Glenn Wilson joined up to create a dual-project called Tonal Path if anyone finds this interesting. Think it will be sweet musically, Techno with attitude. There will be a twitter feed Wilson - Fridell (tonalpath) on Twitter (http://www.twitter.com/tonalpath)

[ritaheed]

Speaking of raw techno 2000-2004 in modern packages and so on, it's official that me & Glenn Wilson joined up to create a dual-project called Tonal Path if anyone finds this interesting. Think it will be sweet musically, Techno with attitude. There will be a twitter feed Wilson - Fridell (tonalpath) on Twitter (http://www.twitter.com/tonalpath)

sounds good man :)

[Mattias_Fridell]

Yea hope we can meet the expectations hehe.

[BloodStar]

blatant self promo, pretty OT, one must say.

[Mattias_Fridell]

Might be kind of OT as you say, but I was spinning on the subject about that some people mentioned Glenn's Motion Mix here as a pretty good example of newer upcoming Techno they like. Something like that.

[teknorich]

There's no problem at all with Mattias mentioning his own project. He has added a lot to this thread, and what he mentioned was totally relevant - how two producers who made harder sounds in the past are now trying to make slower music but with the same vibe. I'm glad he mentioned it, and tho tbh am not sure I'll like it, I do want to listen and see how they are trying to achieve it.

[ORIS]

Speaking of raw techno 2000-2004 in modern packages and so on, it's official that me & Glenn Wilson joined up to create a dual-project called Tonal Path if anyone finds this interesting. Think it will be sweet musically, Techno with attitude. There will be a twitter feed Wilson - Fridell (tonalpath) on Twitter (http://www.twitter.com/tonalpath)

Looking forward to this! :)

When can we expect some audio then Mattias?

[ORIS]

There's no problem at all with Mattias mentioning his own project. He has added a lot to this thread, and what he mentioned was totally relevant - how two producers who made harder sounds in the past are now trying to make slower music but with the same vibe. I'm glad he mentioned it, and tho tbh am not sure I'll like it, I do want to listen and see how they are trying to achieve it.

'xactly

[Mattias_Fridell]

Thanks gentlemen. Oris, there will be audio previews soon enough, Im guessing on Soundcloud as soon as we sort everything. I'll make sure to poke you about it.

[BloodStar]

Might be kind of OT as you say, but I was spinning on the subject about that some people mentioned Glenn's Motion Mix here as a pretty good example of newer upcoming Techno they like. Something like that.

no worry, man. nothing personal.

as there was a point on previous pages, about Nilz from Exchange and Lawrie in Curved pressings played big role on techno sound around year 2000. that is deffinitely true, and there goes big respects to both these guys for sculpting the sound of the most successful period of techno.

however time changed and from what i see people around me (not counting, djs, producers and other involved in music), there is just 1of 10, or maybe 1 of 20 and less, who stays and still listen to techno.. where are all these people and why did they leave and migrated to other genres???

[Mattias_Fridell]

No worries. And yea, Exchange and Curved certainly had a huge finger in the sound. I know what you're saying about people abandoning techno. For me personally I stopped when this minimal trend came, think others did that also no? The ones that enjoyed proper Techno that is. I just went under some aliases and released deeper house and stuff instead hehe. Think a few of the old dudes who "vanished" been using another name. See Skoog / Agaric, too bad his Agaric is boring music. I crawled back when music became more interesting again. I think I wont be the only one.

[romelpotter]

no worry, man. nothing personal.

as there was a point on previous pages, about Nilz from Exchange and Lawrie in Curved pressings played big role on techno sound around year 2000. that is deffinitely true, and there goes big respects to both these guys for sculpting the sound of the most successful period of techno.

however time changed and from what i see people around me (not counting, djs, producers and other involved in music), there is just 1of 10, or maybe 1 of 20 and less, who stays and still listen to techno.. where are all these people and why did they leave and migrated to other genres???


I agree but would extend the most successful period of time for Techno was from in my opinion 1996 until about 2003.

Mark EG, Jeff Mills, Billy Nasty, Joey Beltram, Kris Needs, Dave Clarke, Claude Young, Laurent Garnier, Speedy J, Darren Emerson, Umek, Adam Beyer, Carl Cox (1994 to roughly 1999),
Monika Kruse, Paul Mac and many many more, all highly active both Djing and producing during these times! Arguably what's considered THE seminal Techno album (of my generation anyway) Jeff Mills - Live @ The Liquid Rooms released in 1997.

I am not suggesting that these musicians are not releasing anything of quality now however I am suggesting that because of critical elements (The social scene, clubs, ravers and the development of musical equipment both recording and stuff for making noise), and the important fact of it all being relatively new (compared to 2010!!); the techno scene was at its peak during these times. Soon there after I believe it became too fragmented with each variant of techno trying to establish its own identity, with varying levels of success. I witnessed that starting to happen back in 1995 and it continued thereon after.


For sure the mastering skills of the aforementioned Nillz and Laurie will have undoubtedly forged the analogue sound of Vinyl, but I guess there is a lot of MP3 downloading of tracks now which will sound different largely due to the extension of available frequencies when you master to analogue (Vinyl) and to digital (Mp3) formats. The loss of analogue "warmth" replaced by what is often perceived as digital harshness.

In my book, the digital Mp3 is great for passing on demo's to your mates of your own stuff, posting online for people to comment (and also there is the turning up to gigs with a small bag of cd's which is a hell of a lot lighter than 90 or so records lol); but for me, I would always play out using vinyl.

Its been a while since I posed on here, I still have my decks set up, and I am currently looking for a new home studio to crack out some noise on, but people change, get older , loose the desires and ideology they had a few years ago. People move on to other pastures, it shouldn't be a problem so long as there is a continued stream of new nutters to appreciate the sounds, scene and atmosphere. :) Its just how it is I think.



Peace

[The Overfiend]

Great post Romel.

[teknorich]

Great post Romel.

Agreed!

[Igneous]

Spot on there Romel.

[Athar]

I agree with most of you posted in this thread guys,
Lawrie and Nillz as far i know still working hard in the mastering business,
just support them and do not stop buying the vinyls!
and hope the proper techno analogue sounds will back again after boring minimal era, this period must end someday .....