How do I produce this style of Techno LOOP/track?

[doomraider]

Hello BOA.

I am curious on how to go about producing this style loop/track. "Not the vocal of the spanish horns loop" Just the kick, percussion etc. Is it basically a bunch of random loops (low, mid and high range samples) blended together? (with ADSR separating them in a nice position till it sounds good) I can't tell if it has any sidechain/compression etc. Any help would be great.

Thank you very much


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi0TOxKE1Ag

if link doesn't work the track is Ben Sims - Manipulated (Adam Beyer Remix)
ps i use fl studio if this helps your explanation...

VERY APPRECIATED! :rurazz:

[doomraider]

Can anyone help define that style of Techno also. Im guessing its just called TECHNO....so many sub genres nowadays who knows. Just for curiosity its not life or death. =)

[qUE]

If it's the same track I think it is, it's a cut and paste of a old brazilian carnival track plonked on top of Mr Sim's original track. Only thing that might be rocket science on it is the bending of the timing on the sampled percussion which you'd need to do in an editor with dynamic pitch/resample bending.

[doomraider]

i know that part. i am more curious on how the original beat or groove or loop was made. i read something about delay then reverb compressed with a basic kick hi
hat snare house beat will give it that sound as long as the feedback is set to a particular setting. is this how chris liebing makes his music as well? thank you for any info

[qUE]

i know that part. i am more curious on how the original beat or groove or loop was made. i read something about delay then reverb compressed with a basic kick hi
hat snare house beat will give it that sound as long as the feedback is set to a particular setting. is this how chris liebing makes his music as well? thank you for any info

Delayed Kick and Hats with Reverse Gate and Compression.

[doomraider]

Oh ok great! Thanks so much. Now I gotta figure out gow to do a reverse gate. Any idea how to do that?

[doomraider]

is reverse gate called something else i can't seem to find any information on how to do it. thank you

[qUE]

It's an abreviated term for reversed gated reverb, it's basically a reverb in reverse which is "capped" from overloading the mix. I suspect there are VST plugins which can achieve it. Pretty sure Reason has the effect on it's virtual units.

[blistanbul]

listened to this track many times.

it was featured in many mixes as well.

[doomraider]

do i need to make basic 4/4 beat then add reverb...export it..import it back in ..reverse again or something? thanks

[qUE]

do i need to make basic 4/4 beat then add reverb...export it..import it back in ..reverse again or something? thanks

I thought this might come up. There are generally two ways you can do it;

a) If you want to manipulate everything live then you'll need to run the patterned rhythm (from a sequenced drum machine/sampler or virtual) through a delay echo to "double" up the beat or this could also be done by adding a half velocity drum in between the kick. You then run that through a reverse gate and tweak the gate until it sounds right, then finally through compression, I don't use it myself, but if you want everything to sound loud then you add compression, tweak the compression so everything is "punchy".

b) If you're triggering sampled rhythm loops, build up the rhythm either by using a drum machine/sampler and sampling it, virtual drum machine and exporting it or literally cut & paste the kicks, hats, toms etc. in a sample editor. Once you've got an un-effected raw loop, load the loop into an editor and add delay to double up (if necessary), add reverse gate and add compression (adjust as needed).

There are several things on the market you can use for rhythm sequencing, I use none of them so your mileage may vary. For virtual, why not give Buzzmachines a whirl (although I've used the old version, dunno how good the rewrite is).

Cool Edit (now Adobe Audition, ugh) as a sample editor is loaded with features for audio effecting and has a timeline for cut & paste.



qUE

[doomraider]

thanks QUE! i use fl studio now...and i use kick samples etc...sometimes loops and ADSR them to make them my own ..but basically ill make a good groove now..with kicks hi hats n snare for example. then i reverse it add reverb or delay or both ..export that...import it back in to a new track.file/song etc...reverse it back...and side chain it to a kick that has no fx on it yet...am i on the right track? is that a reverse gate...bcuz when u say add a reverse gate that is my main issue i don not understand if I'm actually adding the reverse gate and not realizing i am...lol...i tend to over think things sometimes and need them explained as if i was an idiot because otherwise my brain says,,,WHAT if you're I'm doing it wrong...thanks and sorry about all this confusion...

[doomraider]

also is gate just another way of saying side chain or since it creates that stuttering in the volume going up and down....( i know I'm under explaining the potential of what it does) just trying to see if gate is basically a side chain or what is the difference...

[qUE]

No problem, glad I was able to help

[doomraider]

Did u see my question?

[qUE]

Did u see my question?

TBH, I haven't used fruity loops in a very long time, IIRC it's similar to Tracker which I have used and what I use now is similar. Afaik what you can do with FL is build up the beat in the note grid using shot kick, tom, hat, snare samples and then route into VST effects. This mean if the beat isn't quite right you can edit it, and if the effects need to be tweaked as it's playing they can be, although I think you'll need to get a bit technical if you need to store the live setting of the effects in the track, maybe FL has a live record thing for this? I dunno.

[doomraider]

Still not sure if I need to reverse all the sounds and add reverb before or after etc. maybe import ut back etc.

[Von Noosh]

also is gate just another way of saying side chain or since it creates that stuttering in the volume going up and down....( i know I'm under explaining the potential of what it does) just trying to see if gate is basically a side chain or what is the difference...

Hi Doomraider,

I am a fellow FL Studio user and am probably at the same level as yourself. I am equally confused to the following terms when producing:

1) Ducking effect.
2) Gate.
3) Parallel Processing.
4) Compression.

Thanks to the following link some of this is explained really well. Having folowed the ducking effect example on this website i appreciate / understand the reasons behind it and for using it.
I think i am much like yourself, if i do not understand something fully and can't get my head round it then i can never use use it properly.
I just can't get my head round compression yet.......... I find it doesn't make that much difference to the ooomph of my bass or other things for that matter (p.s. i use headphones only as my wife and 2 very young children aren't really bass / techno lovers) so I don't know if this is the problem; i doubt it though.
I have started ****ing around with Fruity Prametric EQ 2 and this is a great tool for making things souns better.

Anyway check out these tutorials:

http://howtomakeelectronicmusic.com/tag/fl-studio


http://www.youtube.com/user/AcePincter


:wave:

[qUE]

Still not sure if I need to reverse all the sounds and add reverb before or after etc. maybe import ut back etc.

Trouble with just reversing the loops and adding reverb is you won't get the same control as if it's gated.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/193284-reverse-gate-plugin.html

[doomraider]

wait ...by reverse gate u mean that it allows only the sounds under the threshold and not the normal over the threshold? i thought u meant a sound that is put into reverse then add a gate to that backwards sound?

[doomraider]

thanks von noosh! also thanks as always QUE....still trying to figure out what u mean...

[BloodStar]

jsut try to layer few shuffling loops of different lengths. filter the shit out of them and you are there. :)

[Secret 80s]

I may be a lil off the mark, again with terms like reverse gate(?), but this is how I get things pumpin with reverse reverb in FL. Load sample, mute all others, in the samples fx channel add a verb2, tweak. go to sample , reverse. in piano roll add what ever note you are using, ie C5, for as long as you want the effect, but make sure you make note long enough to encompass the entire sample. You can forego the reversing of the sample if it is monophonic or noise. export as wav file to a folder, perhaps on the desktop, which is already linked in FL file settings. refresh browser, add sample to play list or sequencer. place in new effects channel. now is when the pump can be added in so many different ways. Most often I use the native limiter, set to compression, sidechained to the kick. kills two birds with one fx. you can also use the lfo in the sample editor, or the filter, creating a automation clip and painting it in repetition in the playlist, there is the love filter, blah blah. what you where looking for?
BTW Cool edit, kinda dates us ol farts. lol There is another option instead of audition. Edison is a very similar wavform editor but it comes native to FL, which is yet another way to record tweak, verb, blur, etc, to get the aame effect. I<3FL

[doomraider]

Ill try but im a little confused...ill see what I come up with..anyone use Wizooverb

[doomraider]

I think I understand after rereading...so basically the sound that is sidechained to the kick will be a reversed sample that has reverb on it ..correct¿

[Elvio Neto]

i always wonder how the old classic vinyl techno was produced (tracks from 90´s especially the 1996 to 1998 tracks)

the kick and the subbass had some kind of fluctuation , looks like the kick doenst hit always the same place and the subbass´s too

there was times this technique was present in all great vinyl releases from reeko ,the advent aka souldestroyaz and others

here is one example:

http://youtu.be/wh8OeZVnjPs

another example:

http://youtu.be/t1xmR6bLgd0

maybe the example tracks are not so good but many of you that have vinyl from that times know what im talking about

delays? reverbs? flanger?

cheers.

[Secret 80s]

I think I understand after rereading...so basically the sound that is sidechained to the kick will be a reversed sample that has reverb on it ..correct¿

Correct. The reverb is added prior to exporting, this way you get the long reverb decay acting as a long attack. If you keep the original sample, you will Pry want to remove the verb effect or greatly reduce to get the sharpness back on the orginal. If you are looking to do a "sweep" effect with the sample, leave the verb effect, or just clone the Reverse reverb sample and reverse it (or un-reverse, depending on how you exported.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVCfDuwlZK8

You can see what I meant by reversing vocals BEFORE adding verb in this vid. I do not use the normalize function due to is inability to amplify uniformly over the spectrum of the sample, but thats another story ;-) The use of edison is great, however I like to add any synthesis, re-synthesis, effected samples, et cetera to my sample library, jus in case I need them in the future (you can always go back to the project and get it but why not kill a bunch of birds with one stone lol)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lCI-2ceR7g
This is an ok intro to sidechaining with the fruity limiter.

Hope this helps!!!

[doomraider]

yes thanks a million. it helps but im not sure if i am doing it correctly or not. do you think you can post an example of this trick/tip so i know i achieved the same result. thanks it would be very appreciated.

[doomraider]

a friend of mine who is really good with producing says that the ben sims remanipulated track i asked about originally sounds like a shaker loop pitched down a bit. does this sound right to anyone if you listen again? if so does it sound like it has any reverb, compression, reverse gate on it etc? thank you

[doomraider]

@bloodstart by dif lengths do you mean set the decay to be quick and short ie do not play the entire loop or do you mean time stretch the loops to be longer/slower or shorter/faster. thank you


also does anyone know how to change from 4/4 time to 3/4 time in fl studio. the dance music manual book said some techno artists do that to add different timbres to their loop/layers


muchas gracias danke thank you etc

[Secret 80s]

To get a 3/4 time sig... go to Options>Project general settings. Change bar to 3, leave beat at 4. Er is it the other way round? lol been so long since sheet music days. Anyway there it is ;-)

[Secret 80s]

@Doomraider, I soooo tried to record a video for ya, but ended up with a few new tracks instead. lolz I will try again with a new resolve :-) Don't let the terminology get you confused. you can accomplish a "reverse gate" effect in fruity limiter, set to compress, which, imho, you should have on every output to master. the edison editor is also a powefull way to do this with more control, but the limiter has a compressor and gate, and is much easier to use and you can automate, real time. try to keep it simple, buying, leanring, mapping....blah blah, a vst is time consuming at best, and can be a convoluted means to an end, which can be stifiling to the creative process.

[BloodStar]

@bloodstart by dif lengths do you mean set the decay to be quick and short ie do not play the entire loop or do you mean time stretch the loops to be longer/slower or shorter/faster. thank you

i mean, some loop to be 1/2 bar, some to be 1 bar, some to be 3/4 bar, etc.etc...

add FX chain on each loop and you'll have nice moving grooves.. just experiment ;-)