Adios Final Scratch............

[Antinoise]

Final scratch was merly a stop on the way to the top.. And here is the summit
click--->LONG LIVE THE KING!!!!......technics (http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=F&storeId=11251&catalogId=1 1005&itemId=68892&catGroupId=14966&modelNo=SL-DZ1200&surfModel=SL-DZ1200)

[Si the Sigh]

:love:

[miromiric.]

this is interesting, but do keep in mind that the default set-up in all the clubs in the world is 3 technics mk2s. dj just takes his FS and a laptop. you certainly wont take youir decks with you.

[grumblemunta]

it doesnt support high bitrate mp3s either, which makes it unsuitable for mp3 playback on large soundsystems, where the poor quality of lower bitrate mp3s is easily discernable.

final scratch is a much better technology, IMO. it is software, and so can be constantly upgraded. The latest version is windows compatable, and supports time stretching, so the original pitch of the tune is preserved, whatever the playback speed.

[Antinoise]

Lets be real.. The default is going to quickly change..... this is the s**t..

And to be honest.. In a regular turntable setup, it would be easier to carry around 2 of these things and plug them into 2 open channels than unplug the house turntables to plug in final scratch. It's stress moving my FS around.

[StoQ]

tecs mk2 rule. i don't know why but like it:)

[grumblemunta]

Lets be real.. The default is going to quickly change..... this is the s**t..


na. djs love vinyl, there is no way that the majority will switch to a what is basically a CD deck, not for all the tea in China.

[Antinoise]

it doesnt support high bitrate mp3s either, which makes it unsuitable for mp3 playback on large soundsystems, where the poor quality of lower bitrate mp3s is easily discernable.

If you think that anything over 192 will be noticeable over a large sound system then your kidding yourself. I barley (and I stress barley) notice a difference in a 192mp3 and a WAV on my studio Genelecs. We are coming from a world of 15 years off crappy pressed vinyl... any of this digital technology will be sparkling to the speakers.

And this has pitch locking like FS...
HERE ARE SOME SPECS
Seamless, instant cueing with four cue pads and memory for 10 cue...
Variable-range (+8 to +50)....
Pitch Lock (the ability to change the tempo without changing pitch).....
"Reverse-Forward" mode.....
Sample pads......
Dynamic effects (http://www.inthemix.com.au/p/np/viewnews.php?id=13842)

http://www.artego.com/dz1200pic01.jpg
http://www.artego.com/dz1200pic02.jpg

FS is a work around solution.. It's a temporary fix that will soon be laughed at. Permanent solutions are on the way!..



na. djs love vinyl, there is no way that the majority will switch to a what is basically a CD deck, not for all the tea in China.

A few of the big name DJ start demanding these and watch the band-wagons fill up.. Anyone that thinks these won't eventually catch on is in denial..

[grumblemunta]

A few of the big name DJ start demanding these and watch the band-wagons fill up.. Anyone that thinks these won't eventually catch on is in denial..

we shall see. people have been predicting the imminent demise of vinyl for some decades now, and they have all been very wrong so far. just as analogue synths have not been replaced by more modern digital products, despite manufacturers endlessly hyping their supposed advantages, digital decks have been very slow to replace technics, despite being promoted as the next big thing.

cast your mind back to when the Pioneer CDJs first came out. The word was out that here, finally, was the technic beater. now they are relegated to a few niche markets, like psy trance mixing, and im willing to bet the latest attempt at a digital turntable will go the same way.

Final scratch has a shitloads more success at penetrating the market, coz it looks and feels the same as mixing proper vinyl, the new technics simply cant offer this unique advantage.

[DJZeMig_L]

This could b the thing as most people think Technics = Standard = quality... but I've seen my share of gadgets and I must say that they're realllllllly haveing some probs with the software for this... the release date has been postponed about 4 times, Also the fact that it's a technics doesn't mean they'll b good... although we all hope they are. Technics are new 2 the CDJ markett, and a lot can go wrong... right now the best imho are the denon S3000 which have the closer feel 2 vinil, but have a small platter that is slightly slugish... I haven't seen the Numark (which I always suspect :dontevengothere: ) but they're new CD1-x looks like it could take this technics 4 a ride any day!

Z

[dJpZ]

You should say, adios production.

I wonder what u will encode in the future if the mp3 diffusion continues like that...

[Antinoise]

...just as analogue synths have not been replaced by more modern digital products...
Analogue/digital synthesis is not comparable to analogue/digital playback. Lets face it .. All playback is digital at the end of any process..(DAT, wav... whatever before gets relayed on vinyl).


cast your mind back to when the Pioneer CDJs first came out. The word was out that here, finally, was the technic beater. now they are relegated to a few niche markets...
The reasons Pioneers have not taken the market are that they are a first pass technology... mainly missing the spinning platter which makes it a lesser beast... but also no mp3 support.... etc

And fact of the matter is.. this product already has one big name endorsing it.. His name is "TECHNICS"!! I don’t want to debate this.. I see the sun coming over the horizon and its unstoppable.. The question is how long before its 12:00.

[Antinoise]

This could b the thing as most people think Technics = Standard = quality... but I've seen my share of gadgets and I must say that they're realllllllly haveing some probs with the software for this.....
Your right there.. My arguments are for what's on paper.. If they don't live up to the standards.. then they are doomed to fail. Personally I think they have pushed the date because they know they have to get it right the first time.

[SlavikSvensk]

grumblemunta got it right. vinyl appeals to our techno nerdiness. it's something you can collect, which is the essential desire of all nerds.

[DJZeMig_L]

I for one will Diss my 12" for djing the minute all clubs have 3 CDJ that have a similar response to decks... I will buy vinyl, record, edit7 remix is needed then play the cd... Traveling with a niffty, small, weightless handbag will b my game. No more praying 4 the records 2 arrive and travelling with another 1 on board with 15 kg at less, still always praying they will let u take it with ya!!...
Plus If my bag get's stollen (which will b harder cause all my set will travel with me) It's a mater of re-recording all the shi*!

I welcome the revolution with open arms...

The release date has been postponed due 2 probs with the unit. technics will only release it when it's really up to scratch (I hope) still that doesn't mean it will operate just as we hope...

By all means the s3000 should b "almost" just perfect but not everyone has jumped on the wagon!

Z

[grumblemunta]

[quote=grumblemunta]
I don’t want to debate this.. .

hehe, well thats clever, innit, post something contraversial up on a discussion forum, and then try to rule out any debate on the subject.

face it, if you on on any djing forum, and argue that the latest cd deck is about to replace the 1210, you are going to get more than a few people disagreeing with you.

[jonnyspeed]

I disagree. Mr Munta was giving an opinion and this does not constritute a discussion.

[dirty_bass]

lets face it, vinyl IS going to die out for sure. The amount of alternative technology is mounting up.

Vinyl is crap anyway. Yeah it feels nice and it is easy to manimulate, but as a recording medium it is shite. Poor frequency response in comparison to cd, or digital data medium.
It`s too expensive to make, and in these cautious times for any record label, I`m sure all us label owners will prefer the benefits of CD in the end.

although piracy is the big downside to all this.

As followers of techno (technology) we should be embracing new technology.

[Antinoise]

Well said Dirty_B and MigL....... :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Antinoise]

I don’t want to debate this.. .
hehe, well thats clever, innit, post something contraversial up on a discussion forum, and then try to rule out any debate on the subject.

face it, if you on on any djing forum, and argue that the latest cd deck is about to replace the 1210, you are going to get more than a few people disagreeing with you.
Ok then.. Ill gladly put my debate cap on...... :rambo: :lol:

[DJ Corbzy]

grumblemunta got it right. vinyl appeals to our techno nerdiness. it's something you can collect, which is the essential desire of all nerds.

exactly what i was going to say minus the nerd part.

[SlavikSvensk]

grumblemunta got it right. vinyl appeals to our techno nerdiness. it's something you can collect, which is the essential desire of all nerds.

exactly what i was going to say minus the nerd part.

...we love something most people don't understand, we hoard, we catalog, we argue about it on the internet and we are predominantly male...all classic symptons of nerd-dom.

[davethedrummer]

final scratch can be a pain to plug and unplug
but i can't see these things being installed in an english club for ages!!!!
also they don't play wavz or aiff yet ( a serious drawback , whats the point in arguing over the sonic supremacy of c.d. when you can only play mp3's?)
i wouldn't like to carry 2 of them around either
also where exactly are you going to get the music to play on them from?????????

no i like records first and foremost and after that i like final scratch purely for playing those new tracks and having a standard peice of equiptment that's portable and feels like vinyl.

there's still a way for us to go yet guys

[DJZeMig_L]

Dave I think U gotta check Version FS 1.5...

I guess CDs will take vinyl over when it comes 2 "record" shops, I mean a normal "pc" Cd can't hold a stick against comercially produce CDs.. also I wouldn't like 2 carry with me my only copy of a piece of music I like 4 a change! :)

Z

[g]

And to be honest.. In a regular turntable setup, it would be easier to carry around 2 of these things and plug them into 2 open channels than unplug the house turntables to plug in final scratch. It's stress moving my FS around.
easier than setting up FS. i'll assume that was facetious.

[davethedrummer]

Dave I think U gotta check Version FS 1.5...

I guess CDs will take vinyl over when it comes 2 "record" shops, I mean a normal "pc" Cd can't hold a stick against comercially produce CDs.. also I wouldn't like 2 carry with me my only copy of a piece of music I like 4 a change! :)

Z

i got it migl (fs 1.5)
its wicked!

[dan the acid man]

1.5 is a bit good :clap:

[Antinoise]

..
also where exactly are you going to get the music to play on them from?????????
For FS.. I have almost all my vinyl all ripped down to mp3... and the goal is that I can soon spin an entire set of all self produced (or remixed) tracks.. ... but I know what your hinting at Henry. Copyright is a whole problem that comes with the digital age.....

The solution is a whole other thread in itself.. but my quick idea is if we could at least find a way to imbed an immovable name in every file (i.e. Sold To: Henry Cullen) and a basic web program that would install that name (so each track DavetheDrummer.net sells has a unique "Sold To' name)... that would be a pretty good solution. Then if you see copies floating around owned by Henry Cullen... you could sue your own ass for having a Hydraulics 22 installed on 1000 machines. Its not really copy protection.. but it would center responsibility which is a good deterrent. The possible upside is being able to sell tracks from the web under the Apple model for a buck each with no real overhead.

[Antinoise]

....also they don't play wavz or aiff yet (a serious drawback , whats the point in arguing over the sonic supremacy of c.d. when you can only play mp3's?)...

.....i wouldn't like to carry 2 of them around either

They play regular audio cd's which is wav/aiff equivalent. (up to 44khz-16bit)..

My quote about carrying two of these was a bit of a joke and more of a reaction of some nightmare situations of trying to set up FS in a preset club situation. I've had my FS for well over a year and its getting more troublesome as time goes on (not calibrating and such issues). Maybe I need new cables.

To switch sides here for a sec..(cuz hey.. I do love my FS)... With FS jumping to windows it does open the opportunity of using the full Trackor interface and having VST support down the road which would be f***in killer!!!

[spiralx]

For FS.. I have almost all my vinyl all ripped down to mp3... and the goal is that I can soon spin an entire set of all self produced (or remixed) tracks.. ... but I know what your hinting at Henry. Copyright is a whole problem that comes with the digital age.....
Surely his point was then that then you're still subject to the limitations of vinyl as well as the limitations of MP3.

[Willy_Wonka]

How can you say FS is the workaround and then hail a CD deck that has a spinning platter...

Assuming that vinyl's days are numbered (which I'm not) then its the bloody DJs that are the 'workaround'. I mean why else would you have a CD deck with spinning platter on top of it... Come on take a step back and think about it - its preposterous - this is technology catering from an old legacy user interface - namely 'the decks'...

Once a new generation of digital djs emerge, the idea of having a couple of spinning plates will be seen as ridiculous as not having midi...

I mean why bother with this or FS, you gotta laptop - get a copy of Ableton live and midi control box and hey presto - god know I've heard enough so called live sets that are nothing more than a bunch of loops triggered in Ableton - that's practically mixing records any way...

[DJZeMig_L]

until proven contrary the decks are the best physical interface for music...

but there are some new gadgets comin out that in time might change the way we think... I don't think ableton like prog is the way but that's jus me! :doh:


check this

http://europe.hercules.com/images/products/87/dj_top.gif


http://europe.hercules.com/showpage.php?p=87&f=1&b=0

Z

[Larney]

I don't think ableton like prog is the way but that's jus me!

Why not?

[DJZeMig_L]

I like "trying" 2 beatmatch... I like the feeling that I am building music with a djs mind...

Ableton is more like producing and djing 2 me....

Like I said maybe I'm 2 oldfashioned! :(


Z

[Willy_Wonka]

Hmmm - I still stand by my original argument - the spinning platter is a legacy interface. But then I'm thinking Ableton like apps aren't the answer either (it was only a suggestion anyway - not a solution).

So then I'm thinking that perhaps the spinning platter is a good interface - as its movement does a really good job of transmitting the idea of time moving - music playing etc - so maybe the spinning platter is here to stay... Wondering what else could use it - if you accept that the spinning platter just represents passage of time...

[romelpotter]

thats a good point z, i guess as a dj you have to be able to adapt, if 90 % of the clubs use these technics cd mixer thingy's then thats what your gonna have to do. the security aspect of it as well ie if your set gets nicked then its no loss rearly just burn off another cd, now that does appeal to me. you could almost make disposable sets. And you can still collect the records. i would rather pay £30 for a rare record, have it and then burn a mp3 copy as aposed to downloading a mp3 copy from the net, but i guess thats a personal thing. imp cd mixing - no - but i am slowly coming round to the idea if they are performing as well as technic record decks.

[romelpotter]

:doh: that post is out of place, god dam sunday mornings :oops: