Hard techno's shooting itself!

[Sunil]

Beginning to see a trend that's departing from the hard stuff and lapping up other styles of techno.. i don't reckon it's because the other stuff is any more intelligent in many cases but basically because hard techno is being mass produced/released to beat the band and it's becoming increasingly time consuming to find good stuff, so people aren't bothering. I'm gonna go as far as saying that hard techno has completely shot itself in the foot, the whole thing is alienating itself, people need to take a breather and 'feel' techno again so they are sidetracking the hard stuff and digging deeper. I'm not meaning to have a moan here, but I am becoming quite discouraged by the way hard techno stands at the moment...

[Sunil]

oh, and this isn't something that's just happened overnight, i appreciate that.. but imo this is the bleakest time for hard techno in quite some time :cry:

[Jimfish]

too many people are making it and they all seem to want to sound like glenn wilson.
that kinda music is so 'big' sonically, (and that super-processed big sound is what every hard techno producer would seems to aim for) that there is little room for variation in sound due to the mix space allways being rammed solid and it takes a very skilled producer to cram many sounds that shine with much depth or tone to them into a mix like that i think.
I think some of the hard techno guys need to experiment with a deeper sound at the moment.

[dirty_bass]

Yeah, I`ve thought this for ages, the heavily compressed percussive sound has got a little tired and has in a lot of cases become pretty lifeless and cold. I think people need some amount of humanity in their music to be able to relate to it.

[Jimfish]

i think people can still relate to hard techno, its just thier is too damn much of it so it gets godamn boring

[Jimfish]

godamnit

[MARKEG]

i dont agree. i just think that hard techno has now become a 'style', a pigeon hole and it's harder to experiment with it. hard techno is great, i love it but i reckon ppl are starting to look deeper too. great. it's all good.

[Sunil]

i dont agree. i just think that hard techno has now become a 'style', a pigeon hole and it's harder to experiment with it. hard techno is great, i love it but i reckon ppl are starting to look deeper too. great. it's all good.

Fair point. In a way I'm not too displeased I suppose as it's making me look around more than I had before and to appreciate other stuff more than I had done in the past. I guess i see hard techno getting very diluted though, and when something becomes as popular across the board the whole thing just begins to feel wrong :lol: In seriousness though, it has become *a lot* more formulated of late, I'm finding it very hard to pick out producers who are standing up and saying "**** you, there ye go, that's what I do" :twisted:

[Dustin Zahn]

Yeah, I'll agree with you guys. I won't mention names out of fairness, but a lot of the producers on this board that are spoken of on a regular basis haven't done a whole lot for hard techno lately. I used to pick up all of the stuff coming out on Glenn's labels, like Compound, PR, Heroes, etc.

Lately, that stuff has gotten a bit formulamatic and kinda stale and I just can't get into it as much at the moment. I really "hard techno" tracks from the late 99 era. Really raw, aggressive bass with a bunch of funk and jack to it. (Read: Headroom - Shades of Shape) These days its all machine techno.

I must say though, Planet Rhythm is doing a decent job lately at bringing back some of that old school sound with a futuristic twist. Even Invexis's new compound shows some old school influence.

[killarava2day]

I still really enjoy the hard stuff at the moment. Admittenly I am losing interest with the German stuff at the moment, the harder German stuff, but like aint it just a phase, another phase in the cyclic nature of all things. The Natus et al. style was rad this time last year, now, I don't know, it's not as new really.

The introduction of more and more producers is the key really. You know, if you're charting for newer waters, why don't you start playing prog, deep house or something similar. Give producing a different genre a go, it will be different and probably a new challenge, a new goal.

I hope the clubbier side of techno becomes vouge. It's sorta been quiet there for a while, well maybe where I live anyway.

[Numeric]

I agree that some hard techno has got a little generic, but top producers such as Skoog, Wilson, The Anxious, Klein and Rodell have kept things more than interesting for me personally. The devastating Wittekind/Laker sound still does it for me too i have to confess, love those hammer beats...

OK, so you may have to sift through more records these days before you find somin that's gonna go straight in the box, but when you do come across those records, i find it more rewarding having had to search a little harder...

Plus, it's like Mark says, there are more specific genres of hard techno than ever before right now, so it stands to reason that certain sounds are gonna become slightly dilute...

[jonnyspeed]

Its been like that since I can remember. Like all techno, hard edge tunes are easy to produce but not so easy to really write a floor filling anthem: 30% dull toss, >60% mediocre, <10% genius.

And as for finding good tunes being far too time consuming - really don't know what you are talking about. The only problem I have is keeping buying to £60 a week. Maybe you need to free yo ass and yo mind will follow :)

[Clarkus]

I find that every now and again i can't find any tunes that i like at all, and sometimes i can't find enough cash to buy all the tunes i want. I'm not sure wether to put this down to a drought of good tunes at times or the frame of mind i'm in when i'm trying to find tunes.
I'm also finding more and more that i when i listen to samples of tunes from sites and don't take to them. Then listen to them in my local store and love them.
Then bring myself back to the old frame of mind question........... :bash:

Iwould agree that there is more boring tunes being released but there are still alot of great tunes out there. It just means when you find them your even more pleased with your find!

[Frank Dogshit]

Skull records were guilty of stealing loops from Glenn Wilson some time ago?? Am I correct??

Running out of ideas perhaps??

[spiralx]

From what I remember they'd been using loops off of commercial loop sets, and several other producers had been using the same ones.

[drift9]

I agree that some hard techno has got a little generic, but top producers such as Skoog, Wilson, The Anxious, Klein and Rodell have kept things more than interesting for me personally....

I'm with you on this one, Numeric.

Sure, there is something of an over-abundance of hard techno at the moment but there are still quality producers in the genre who are putting out quality records. As long as that's the case i don't think hard techno as part of the techno "family tree" has too much to worry about.

[eyes without a face]

i think its the same when there is a big boom in any genre, it does in the end start to tire a little. Ive had this discussion with a few peeps lately and everyone does seem to be getting a little bored with that big, hard sound at the moment. I definately am getting a bit bored with it, but i dont mean to say i dont like it! its great, theres nothing better than a big, dirty, stomping mess of a tune, but musically ive started to get into more subtle variations on hard techno, ala Surgeon, Regis etc etc. This sorta stuff is musically alot tougher than ur average banger, but in its own unique way.

Also i think alot of hard techno is too fast these days, the producers should pitch the tracks at say an average of 140bpm and if the dj wants to play it faster they can!!!

[SlavikSvensk]

i think its the same when there is a big boom in any genre, it does in the end start to tire a little. Ive had this discussion with a few peeps lately and everyone does seem to be getting a little bored with that big, hard sound at the moment. I definately am getting a bit bored with it, but i dont mean to say i dont like it! its great, theres nothing better than a big, dirty, stomping mess of a tune, but musically ive started to get into more subtle variations on hard techno, ala Surgeon, Regis etc etc. This sorta stuff is musically alot tougher than ur average banger, but in its own unique way.

Also i think alot of hard techno is too fast these days, the producers should pitch the tracks at say an average of 140bpm and if the dj wants to play it faster they can!!!

i agree on both points. i personally prefer to play my records at 130-140 to let some of the percussive subtlety come out. slower than average, and definately not for everyone, but i figure that it's good to have some variety out there...

as for the state of hard techno--and techno in general--i think everything sounds too cookie cutter right now, but i can't help but think that this means something big is on the way. something that's really going to shock and awe...

[DJZeMig_L]

I've had my share but I guess having all the new djs play 10 trackz of this x producer and 20 of that y, and mind u I'm talking about formulaic work, doing all the cut bass bring new record in, swap bass eq, take out record... formula ... :eh: techno used 2 b doing it yer way and trying 2 make it as best as u can... I don't wanna bang my own drum but if people played more varied stuff we'd all by luving ALL our techno... good and bad coexist in each genre!! I confess 2 b turned off but a lot of the harder, faster more aproach!!!



Bud Respect above all,


Z

[Tiptoe]

i must say i am getting bored with the hard for the sake of being hard stuff and am getting back into my surgeon and regis style stuff. Loop after loop of hard stuff is ok but the tunes i am playing at the minute i feel are a lot more intelligent if you know what i mean

[djvartan]

i dont wear any
Underwear.

.
,
:eh:

[jonnyspeed]

I completely with the problem being DJs not mixing it up enough - look at some of the hard signal mixes - the beat is continous but the tunes are a real variation. Sept 2003 by Sven Wittekind and Oct 2003 by Timo A. Hummel are marvellous! One of the reasons the like of Henry and Chris Liberator are loved so much is because they can drop lots of sounds from Kiddaz through SUF through to Pounding Grooves - variety - they may get knocked for playing techhouse and hard house stlye acid because they can mix not just beat match and swop.

[tioneb]

interesting thread.. i just think in every techno subdivision, whatever u call it the 3 last years just showed blatant un-innovation. the few ones who tried to innovate just see this wasnt worthless and get the rewards of their efforst, they know who they are.

[Col]

I still really enjoy the hard stuff at the moment. Admittenly I am losing interest with the German stuff at the moment, the harder German stuff, but like aint it just a phase, another phase in the cyclic nature of all things. The Natus et al. style was rad this time last year, now, I don't know, it's not as new really..

i share this opinion, the hard german sound is lacking imagination right now. imo

[dtl]

If you were a producer and labels are screaming to sign your tracks coz you are the man in the heat, you are not going to say no. Type Sven Wittikind at Web record and see how many tunes he put out in the last six months, I would say its enough to fill a 4 hours set. The point is how many of them really stand out? Um, probably 2 tracks and both are on Kne Deep 25.

Anyway, let them be overheat and let the djs with no ear buying the same tunes over and over again, what do you have to care if you feel you are picking the right bits?

As for mixing skills, I have stressed this before, most European producers are very bad djs, and they dont produce tunes with a Dj-friendly appoarch, a lot of tunes have an extra bar here and there, if you want a long tight phrase mix and chop around would become very awekard since it gets out of pharse very quick. So it reduces Djs to mix short in these short phrases, alternatively, you can be innovative to do some nice sharp mixes (With tunes that sound extremely similar would work a treat.) Obviously a sampler and effects would minimise the dullness of such -short-boring-non-chopping mixing.

Anyway, will leave you with a gem. Check out Midimiliz "No Alibi". Sythey Stormper.

Eric.

[BloodStar]

Nowadays, it's not just hard techno which is shooting itself. this division of techno music is the closest to me and one I like the most,.
Quality of some EPs which are coming out everyday is nothing special or inovative in most cases. but I mean there's no need to get inovation everyday, but just quality stuff would be more appreciated. Also in some cases on the first place is quantiy instead of quality, which should be the one what it's all about.
I don't like the German style of hard techno too much, it lacks its warmth, all about distortion and furious speed. no sense inside. not at all, indeed, but in most cases this is all about.
Djing is depending on each other, imo. because it's up to you if you just beatmatch record after record in a few seconds or start to build up a story comparable to track which has hour and half or two. and it'a also up to you which elements, in this case EPs you'll use to put them in. and how you'll do that. fast or slow mixes, equalization, EFXs,and so...

[jonnyspeed]

...I always thought Glenn Wilson just got a loop from Turnkey, wacked it through a geeetar fuzz pedal and added fileters every 32 bars. And **** me - its true!

lol

[daviec]

I know what folk are saying about the hard sound. There are a shitload of formulaic tracks coming out, but it's pushed me "deeper" as it were. My sets retain a hard edge, but the other night for example I was playing wunsch, exium, bmb, reeko, archae & grovskopa, and the likes.

However I still found a place in my set for some of the harder producers. I don't agree that they've all gone stale. In that same set I played "Keiner Da" by Robert Natus on utilities 28. This guy is really trying something different. And Henry Cullen & Julian Liberator on 4x4x18 wasn't anything like most of henry's stuff and I played it as my last track. Brilliant stuff.

I think people just have to look further than the usual suspects. It's possible to play a hard set without sticking to the formulas.

[DJZeMig_L]

Yesterday I was looking thru e-record shops... and I was thinking that a lot of the stuff is sounding more and more like hard Core/ gabba... thunderdomme music 2 me!? :eh: :?:


Anyways respect, each one 2 it's own,

Z

[TripleX]

[quote="dtl"]As for mixing skills, I have stressed this before, most European producers are very bad djs, and they dont produce tunes with a Dj-friendly appoarch, a lot of tunes have an extra bar here and there, if you want a long tight phrase mix and chop around would become very awekard since it gets out of pharse very quick. So it reduces Djs to mix short in these short phrases, alternatively, you can be innovative to do some nice sharp mixes (With tunes that sound extremely similar would work a treat.) Obviously a sampler and effects would minimise the dullness of such -short-boring-non-chopping mixing.

[quote]

i agree, especially the harder german guys....
i haven t heard a good hard techno mix for ages, all they do is pitch up to 155bpm, let a track go for 5 mins and then bring another track in with always the same formula (like Ze Mig L said)......

to me it´s not the tracks that kill it, but the lazy way they r mixed....

[basslinejunkie]

I know what folk are saying about the hard sound. There are a shitload of formulaic tracks coming out, but it's pushed me "deeper" as it were. My sets retain a hard edge, but the other night for example I was playing wunsch, exium, bmb, reeko, archae & grovskopa, and the likes.

However I still found a place in my set for some of the harder producers. I don't agree that they've all gone stale. In that same set I played "Keiner Da" by Robert Natus on utilities 28. This guy is really trying something different. And Henry Cullen & Julian Liberator on 4x4x18 wasn't anything like most of henry's stuff and I played it as my last track. Brilliant stuff.

I think people just have to look further than the usual suspects. It's possible to play a hard set without sticking to the formulas.

exactly.variation is the key in my view.

[DJPAUZE]

Wow, some really good points up top there. Hard to figure out where to begin.
I understand what you are saying about formulation up top but I its mainly been in the Harder stuff from Germany. Alot of the harder stuff from there is sounding like its all made on Fruity loops and just like one of the above guys mentioned, those producers are not following any proper sequencing which makes it virtualy impossible to mix.
I hope that these guys will all break into Cubase, Logic and get heavy into Midi because the creativity of tracks seems to be going downhill.
All in all I dont think its Glenn Wilson stuff people should look at. He seems to be putting out some nice stuff on his labels at the moment. I think in the near future things willl change up.

Take Care
Pauze :twisted:

[crime]

Alot of the harder stuff from there is sounding like its all made on Fruity loops and just like one of the above guys mentioned, those producers are not following any proper sequencing which makes it virtualy impossible to mix. ?
Why impossible to mix?
something produced on fruity loops is surely more likely to be more rigid, timing problems are much more likely with midi..
Is it neccesary for a tune to be "Mixable"?
What is "Mixable" anyway?

[death on a stick]

some of this "unmixable" hard techno sounds a lot more interesting. I can't believe people seem to be complaining that their records are not formulaic enough for them to deal with as DJs!!! :lol:

[DJPAUZE]

Okay I dont want to start a war here with Fruity Loops people. This all a matter of opinion okay? And yes I agree there are problems with midi. But you WILL NOT get the output of midi out of Fruity Loops, Im sorry.
I dont really like the sound that comes out of the program. And in terms of mixing. Putting like 15 offset beats in a track is not my cup of tea. If im mixing records one or two offsets is cool like what Lars Klein does.
But having offsets during the track throughout damages the sonic sound of my mix.

Peace
Pauze :twisted:

[ampassasinbirmingham]

away from the mixing issue.

I do believe its not the wilson type stuff either. i think its the Hard german lot that are producing samey track on a weekly production line. I saw three ep's by one of them in a single week a couple of months agao.

[DJZeMig_L]

I don't think fruity or otherwise accounts for having an odd bar counting, I would probably think more of live work, that's when the counting seems 2 be a little off.

Fruity and Sx can do wounderfull things, I have & do work with both, the sound is what I make of it! sure there is differences but don't think this is the place 2 get into it!

The old minimal stuff was hardly compatible with the normal 8-16-32 bar count still it banged.. But again if u r doing stuff which is more formulaic I guess respecting these is important.

I try 2 respect them as much as possible, "my inovation" (renovation, what ever u wanna call it) is a donne thru the sequences, sounds and sequencing... but then each person has they're experimentalist threshold.. !

Z

[dtl]

CRIME: Why impossible to mix?
Is it neccesary for a tune to be "Mixable"?
What is "Mixable" anyway?

Well, unless you are a master mixer, take years to perfect long/short mixes, having a pair of good ears, good knowledge on tunes (And able to match them in your head) as well as scratch up samples in tune with the music, plus using special EFX and sampler..... I think that's asking way too much for most dance music djs. In fact, those who can achieve everything I mentioned would definitely be bored of mixing music and gone on to produce music or DMCing or building the next Mars shuttle.

Anyway, for a normal standard dj, a mixable tune means there are at least 2 to 4 phrases that are continious, so they can beatmatch it, do a few tricks before cutting it over, sharply or smoothly. Had a track got this extra bar and make the mix out of phrase in the middle, it sounds terrible, short mixes can solve that problem, but it's quite boring if you dont have amazing tune, a sampler or an Efx unit.

Every tune is mixable, just the way which it is best to be mixed would require different skills. Each need time to perfect regardless.

Eric.

[Bughead]

Isnt its popularity based on what punters want to hear thus driving the producers to churn out more.

As the genre is finding its way through the darkness it will become more innovative and more interesting things will happen.

This is just a digestion process where people will listen to german nosebleed techno and want to add their own ideas to it..

It just takes some time. And remember this is not an overnight thing ( DJ Amok , Wittenkind ) they have been sitting around for three years or so developing their sound and not giving up on what they believe in.

Anyway....

[Patrick DSP]

remember...

everything is underground untill you know about it.
and when that happens, it's mainstream.

do what you like. challenge yourself. stay happy. others will take notice in time.

[slavestudios]

i honestly dont think the music has changed that much. its just gettin to new ears & ppls tastes are changing.

i constantly move my style around but i always maintain a techno vibe. be it very hard dense loopage or deeper more complex.

i dont think techno can kill itself. its just evolving & it always will. there will be waves where one feelin of techno washes over another but it doesnt mean that anything has gone forever, its just rolled back.

its like when you find a new producer, you love the first couple of records. then after youve got 5 or 6 12s, its easy to get flippant & say 'thats all he does & its crap now' it isnt crap or worse or whatever, its just that you are now exposed to their sound & its not 'brand new' anymore.

ive taken a notion for the Ben Sims, Carola, Broom style techno 3 deck style. but in a month i'll be back to hard techno, Wittekind style.

i also think ppl are influenced by other djs playing different records & sometimes the same records, but in a different way. i think its only natural to be influenced by good, compotent, skilled djs & live acts & try & learn from what youve seen or heard. not to copy, but to educate.


anyways, techno (hard or otherwise) will never die. the 'electroclash' fad is over but proper electro & bass music carrys on regardless.


LONG LIVE THE UNDERGROUND!

[slavestudios]

another thing, i think the attitude to record production has changed.

i believe a lot of records are made to mix, not let run for 4 mins then quickly mix to the other.

when i play Wittekind/Amok/Switchblade style, i rarely leave a track on its own for more than 30 seconds. i'll try to change the mixed out track in the breakdown & have it in in about 32 bars starting to mix.

theres a big difference between a stand alone techno track & a dj tool, and i think thats whats happening. ppl cant really see one from the other.

anyways, Final Scratch is here. get that, a laptop & Cubase & amke your own. simple. ten yeasr the technology wasnt here. now it is, so use it.

[crime]

i believe a lot of records are made to mix,

This is the problem...

at the end of the day, all these djs about who moan about tunes being "Impossible to mix" are never going to get out of their bedrooms or progress out of being the techno equivilant of a pub band, because they all play the same tunes in the same way.. just stop and think about that, it's individuality which gets you places..

@dtl: I was being ironic, i don't really think I need it explaining to me...

@perpetual: I know what you're saying about producers first few records being really fresh..
this is the problem, people do one or two records that are really well recieved, and then just pump em out to a formulae.. my way of looking at it is once you've said something once with a tune is there really any point to saying it over and over again? I get people asking me "Why don't you do more stuff like your old Djax stuff" And I'm thinking "I already said what I wanted to say with that record" I'm not going to rehash it and it be a 'not quite as good tune as the first one I did'...
the long and short of it is:
F.U.C.K. Dj tools
bring on the music with something to say...

and before I get flamed for this, don't even bother, I don't care, and any contemptuous PMs will be aired publicly....
;)

[SlavikSvensk]

in my humble opinion, the problem with techno is that there are too many expectations. a lot of people think it should sound like A or B or C. when tracks are supposed to sound a certain way, then it stifles innovation. so i guess i agree with crime. techno should sound more free than it does. it needs to be constantly evolving and to be constantly experimented with, in order to stay innovative and fresh.

[dtl]

dtl: I was being ironic, i don't really think I need it explaining to me...

Um, I was being ironic to answer your "questions" :lol: Really, I was leaning toward stating the facts generate from most average djs, who likely are going to be your biggest stakeholders for your label. For most businesses it's essiential to get grips of your clients needs and wants shall you wish to break through. So it's wise to consider to satisfy the Djs aka your clients, with a great degree of indiviuality which hopefully could bring them to the journey you have long wish to guide.

Eric.

[crime]

Really, I was leaning toward stating the facts generate from most average djs, who likely are going to be your biggest stakeholders for your label. For most businesses it's essiential to get grips of your clients needs and wants shall you wish to break through. So it's wise to consider to satisfy the Djs aka your clients, with a great degree of indiviuality which hopefully could bring them to the journey you have long wish to guide.

it don't work like that, that's just business studies bull, generally taught by failed business people.. Music either sells or it don't and it can be quite unpredictable....

Not being funny, but really don't need to be told how to suck eggs mate, I been involved in running labels for the past 3 years, and there's enough people around me with a lot of experience who I can normally go to for "Advice"...

[gunjack]

you probably dont want my 2 cents but here goes anyway.


selling techno record will not make you money. (unless you sell 5 or 6 thousand copies of each 12") i look at it like the records are for expressing myslef to the public and if any money comes back it is a bonus.

but i have learned that the degree of promotion needed to make a truly big label is just rediculously out of my price range and so with DM and GJS i just try to make kick ass tracks and concepts reflecting my own trip. my records sell about 1200 copies each, i dont make much money, but the ppl usually buy all of the copies we press so i get by.


its expensive to make covers with art, but i made the GJS series records with the jackets because i feel that you need to provide a more complete package for consumers so that even though they can get the tracks online, they still go down to the shop and pick up the disc because they want to support the artist and because it is satisfying to hold the finished product in hand.


anyway i hope we can press more copies of the next few discs, so that people in the states and asia can have better access to the records. spain, germany, holland, the czeck republic and slovakia, all over europe people have supported the records and i am truly gratefull, but it would be good to have the records in more countries.

it is true that the vinyl industry is in the toilet right now, but its what you make it i guess.

[The Overfiend]

Hard techno?
Techno itself is shooting itself in the foot by placing the blame on artists rather than the shadyness of label owners to the artists, the shadyness of the distributors to the labels, and the flimsyness of the uneducated consumer, who isn't willing to even listen to another artist, because it isn't on their favorite label. I find there is also a certain clickyness or nepotism in the industry. Most people wont listen to your demo unless you have a certain affiliation or an inside track so to speak. I am looking at techno now in the same degree I viewed hip hop before the native tongues came in the late 80's early 90's
There needs to be some sort of unification between artists that scale the sub genres. I'm talking full range. For example from Dare I say it Shranz all the way to Tech house dub. Something of like a wu tang proportion a group of producers, dj's distributors label owners who just have desire pushing the scene's integrity and survival forward instead of being greedy and trying to be the next super star dj with a pony tail and gucci shades.

[dirty_bass]

Hard techno?
Techno itself is shooting itself in the foot by placing the blame on artists rather than the shadyness of label owners to the artists, the shadyness of the distributors to the labels, and the flimsyness of the uneducated consumer, who isn't willing to even listen to another artist, because it isn't on their favorite label. I find there is also a certain clickyness or nepotism in the industry. Most people wont listen to your demo unless you have a certain affiliation or an inside track so to speak. I am looking at techno now in the same degree I viewed hip hop before the native tongues came in the late 80's early 90's
There needs to be some sort of unification between artists that scale the sub genres. I'm talking full range. For example from Dare I say it Shranz all the way to Tech house dub. Something of like a wu tang proportion a group of producers, dj's distributors label owners who just have desire pushing the scene's integrity and survival forward instead of being greedy and trying to be the next super star dj with a pony tail and gucci shades.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Word.

[jake]

i think techno tries to put itself above the club scene but as long as ive been going out theres always been shady parties, shady people and shady business deals! i think music and the media in general suffers from fractionalization and now everyone can have their own niche of music whether its funky clubby liquid drum and bass or suicide heroin rock or hard ****ing techno ;) but there isnt enough of going out to a party and having your mind blown with something completely left field that you've never heard before and won't automatically label as "EWW THATS GAY." i dunno if artist collectives do much for artists outside the collective but i think more producers should be making chicago booty tech house schranz dubs!

[gunjack]

Hard techno?
Techno itself is shooting itself in the foot by placing the blame on artists rather than the shadyness of label owners to the artists, the shadyness of the distributors to the labels, and the flimsyness of the uneducated consumer, who isn't willing to even listen to another artist, because it isn't on their favorite label. I find there is also a certain clickyness or nepotism in the industry. Most people wont listen to your demo unless you have a certain affiliation or an inside track so to speak. I am looking at techno now in the same degree I viewed hip hop before the native tongues came in the late 80's early 90's
There needs to be some sort of unification between artists that scale the sub genres. I'm talking full range. For example from Dare I say it Shranz all the way to Tech house dub. Something of like a wu tang proportion a group of producers, dj's distributors label owners who just have desire pushing the scene's integrity and survival forward instead of being greedy and trying to be the next super star dj with a pony tail and gucci shades.


this is the truth

[The Divide]

Hard techno?
Techno itself is shooting itself in the foot by placing the blame on artists rather than the shadyness of label owners to the artists, the shadyness of the distributors to the labels, and the flimsyness of the uneducated consumer, who isn't willing to even listen to another artist, because it isn't on their favorite label. I find there is also a certain clickyness or nepotism in the industry. Most people wont listen to your demo unless you have a certain affiliation or an inside track so to speak. I am looking at techno now in the same degree I viewed hip hop before the native tongues came in the late 80's early 90's
There needs to be some sort of unification between artists that scale the sub genres. I'm talking full range. For example from Dare I say it Shranz all the way to Tech house dub. Something of like a wu tang proportion a group of producers, dj's distributors label owners who just have desire pushing the scene's integrity and survival forward instead of being greedy and trying to be the next super star dj with a pony tail and gucci shades.

I agree 100% man

[massplanck]

Hard techno?
Techno itself is shooting itself in the foot by placing the blame on artists rather than the shadyness of label owners to the artists, the shadyness of the distributors to the labels, and the flimsyness of the uneducated consumer, who isn't willing to even listen to another artist, because it isn't on their favorite label. I find there is also a certain clickyness or nepotism in the industry. Most people wont listen to your demo unless you have a certain affiliation or an inside track so to speak. I am looking at techno now in the same degree I viewed hip hop before the native tongues came in the late 80's early 90's
There needs to be some sort of unification between artists that scale the sub genres. I'm talking full range. For example from Dare I say it Shranz all the way to Tech house dub. Something of like a wu tang proportion a group of producers, dj's distributors label owners who just have desire pushing the scene's integrity and survival forward instead of being greedy and trying to be the next super star dj with a pony tail and gucci shades.


I was also about to say that I agree but to be honest re=reading I dont think i do at all.

Why? Because quality techno/music/hedonism lives on despite all of those things you have just mentioned. I feed off the bullshit and actually grow stronger from it. So do lots of other people. We only talk about it in this way on messages boards because we're too impatient and are looking for a quick way out. There is none. I'm not worried personaly. I know that I will always find new music I love till the day I die. I wish people would dig deeper though and realise that they should be buying at least one or two other types of record along with their normal staple everytime they visit the record store. Become a 'little bit of a nerd' but dont convert 'fully' if you dont want to ( you know what i mean). You like what you like but you never give people they opportunity to portray you as a sheep who just eats grass all day.Just have a quick taste of the leaves, stones, flowers, tree bark, the other sheeps hole too or whatever... what the ****? :shock:

I'll get me tree.

[The Overfiend]

I feed off the bullshit and actually grow stronger from it. So do lots of other people. We only talk about it in this way on messages boards because we're too impatient and are looking for a quick way out.

Is that so?
You have the right to disagree, But to assume I or people who agree with me are "cutting corners" is an unjust assumption.
I'm the same person who spent the past 3 years programming songs from scratch not knowing most people used samples or loops!
I don't even feel the need to validate my point even more to be honest with you. But if you thrive off negativity it will show in your music and you in fact will perpetuate the same behavior by accepting it.
Feed off creative criticism but don't thrive on what makes this industry messed up.

[massplanck]

Is that so?
You have the right to disagree, But to assume I or people who agree with me are "cutting corners" is an unjust assumption.
I'm the same person who spent the past 3 years programming songs from scratch not knowing most people used samples or loops!
I don't even feel the need to validate my point even more to be honest with you. But if you thrive off negativity it will show in your music and you in fact will perpetuate the same behavior by accepting it.
Feed off creative criticism but don't thrive on what makes this industry messed up.[/quote]

You are taking me up wrong me thinks. :nono: :lol: I understand what you said but personaly I dont get too worked up about what 'makes this industry messed up' coz its always going to be that way in some shape or form. Anyway I thought that the techno industry thrives on being anti-commercial and when it does become 'commercial' loses its credibility anyway. So whats the problem? Legends get remembered as legends and the chancers will get remembered as chancers. Thats first and last prize there for you.


also.. on the 3 years you spent 'sequencing' and didnt releasise that everyone was using loops. well why did you change ? Now people are releasing the opposite.

[The Overfiend]

also.. on the 3 years you spent 'sequencing' and didnt releasise that everyone was using loops. well why did you change ? Now people are releasing the opposite.

Use all of your talents to your advantage.

And as far as accepting the business practices?
Why accept mediocrity,
It isn't about commercial success it's about fairness.
If people keep jerking each other who the hell is going to have the desire to keep it going? Do you know how many people I know who make brilliant stuff but don't want to be bothered with the business end that they just end up falling thru the cracks? This keeps happening our love this genre will fade out on it's own.

[massplanck]

also.. on the 3 years you spent 'sequencing' and didnt releasise that everyone was using loops. well why did you change ? Now people are releasing the opposite.

Use all of your talents to your advantage.

And as far as accepting the business practices?
Why accept mediocrity,
It isn't about commercial success it's about fairness.
If people keep jerking each other who the hell is going to have the desire to keep it going? Do you know how many people I know who make brilliant stuff but don't want to be bothered with the business end that they just end up falling thru the cracks? This keeps happening our love this genre will fade out on it's own.


mediocrity? . I dont accept it. It just shows me how to create something new which isnt.

Do you know how many people I know who make brilliant stuff persevere and dont fall through the cracks? Take a look around. Its possible. They may be talented but its their fault they copped out not the industry's. Balls

[dirty_bass]

mediocrity? . I dont accept it. It just shows me how to create something new which isnt.

Do you know how many people I know who make brilliant stuff persevere and dont fall through the cracks? Take a look around. Its possible. They may be talented but its their fault they copped out not the industry's. Balls

This is the type of attitude that is causing fractions.

Why be stand offish. Why be holier than though.

Arrogance, ego and greed are the soul destroyers in this industry, and I allways thought that techno drew the most intellectualy interesting people to it, so aren`t we above this type of behaviour?

The whole system trys to beat people down, so why add to the beating. To people from your effective "tribe".

The industry will only stay this way if we let it. Times have changed and we now don`t have to deal with the coke munching suits anymore. We have our own pressing plants, distributers, mastering rooms etc. It is possible for us, in the techno scene, to illiminate the arseholes, and to deal with each other in an open way.

At least I have to believe this, cos otherwise, what is the point?

[massplanck]

YOU = This is the type of attitude that is causing fractions.

ME = I thought it was the guys with ponytails

YOU =Why be stand offish. Why be holier than though?

ME = Who? Me? how am I being holier than who? Stop blaming others for the mess. Lets get off our holes and sort it out.

YOU = Arrogance, ego and greed are the soul destroyers in this industry, and I allways thought that techno drew the most intellectualy interesting people to it, so aren`t we above this type of behaviour?

ME = What are you on about? If its not about money then why are all these amazingly talented people throwing in the towel? Here we are in the age of the internet and people who make good tunes cant get them heard? Bollox.

YOU = BThe whole system trys to beat people down, so why add to the beating. To people from your effective "tribe".

ME= Coz people neeed a slap around the head sometimes :lol:
I'm not beating anyone down who doesnt give up. Yet why should I hold back on slagging talented people who 'get pissed off' and give up like some one described? If these amazingly talented people kept sticking it out they would shine through eventually aslong as they didnt take their eye of the ball. Good music is good music irregardless of the 'business bullshit'. Try harder.

YOU = The industry will only stay this way if we let it.

ME= Techno will only stay this way if we let it. Boring that is. Go nuts with yours tunes for **** sake. People dont want to hear half the stuff we come up with these days. How is this the industries fault?

YOU Times have changed and we now don`t have to deal with the coke munching suits anymore.

ME= We never were pop artists.We never did rub shoulders with these people did we? We are technoists or whatever... the supposedly anti-commercial side of dance
What techno artists do you know who are manufactured? None. Sure some people manufacture themselves but at the end of the day they are doomed to be slightly richer but less attractive to the average techno bod.

YOU = We have our own pressing plants, distributers, mastering rooms etc. It is possible for us, in the techno scene, to illiminate the arseholes, and to deal with each other in an open way.

ME= and what do you think this boards purpose is for? :lol: :lol:

[dirty_bass]

And you prove the point I made succinctly. Thank you.

[Jimfish]

what the **** is wrong with guys with ponytails? ive got a pony tail asshole!

[massplanck]

what the **** is wrong with guys with ponytails? ive got a pony tail asshole!

http://pages.infinit.net/bluefire/Images/poke2.gif

[Jimfish]

:lol:

[gunjack]

YOU = causing fractions.

what like 3/4 and shit?

[The Divide]

:lol: Jim I thought it was a mullet!

[Jimfish]

*picks another hair from teeth*

dude, the only mullet attached to my face is the one between your mothers legs!

[Si the Sigh]

ha ha! :lol:

[The Overfiend]

*picks another hair from teeth*

dude, the only mullet attached to my face is the one between your mothers legs!

You must have been there last week she was clean shaven last night.

[Jimfish]

:shock: im there right now... its grown about a foot in the last 10 minutes!!

[Jimfish]

somebody help me!

arrrrrgh!!!

[The Overfiend]

:lol: yikes.
I'll be right there with the weed whacker!

[The Overfiend]

Ok back on point, a lot of good points being brought up here, I am just bewildered as to why people would accept the state of techno right now like it isn't a bad thing that there is so much shadyness going on :eh:

[The Divide]

*picks another hair from teeth*

dude, the only mullet attached to my face is the one between your mothers legs!

You must have been there last week she was clean shaven last night.

lololol

[dirty_bass]

I really don`t understand it to be honest. I`ve been in and out of the music industry for years, and had a record deal in the past (industrial band, long story, won`t go into it). And as a whole the record biz is full of wanquers, but I have never understood why there are so many in techno. There isn`t a big load of dosh up for grabs to drive these arseholes into wanquerdom, so what is it.
Partly I have found that drugs have a part to play in this. As there are a lot of seriously damaged people in the techno scene. It`s only when you hit your 30`s that the damage really starts to take effect.
But other than that who knows, maybe techno emphasises frequencies that attract shadyfolk?

It can and is changing, the good guys are gonna win dammit! I know this to be true, I learnt it from hollywood.

[massplanck]

Ok back on point, a lot of good points being brought up here, I am just bewildered as to why people would accept the state of techno right now like it isn't a bad thing that there is so much shadyness going on :eh:

what shadyness?

Take a look around the BA board. All is good. Its the people who arent really into techno/etc who tend to act shady .

I'm happy as a pig in shit at the moment precisely because two new strands (if you like) of techno are steaming ahead whilst at the same time people lament about the current state of techno. I find this a bit bizarre sam sorry.

We are at the bottom of a steep curve.

[dirty_bass]

Maybe you don`t encounter the shadyness massplank. Do you have any label/distribution/promotion dealings in the scene?

[massplanck]

.
But other than that who knows, maybe techno emphasises frequencies that attract shadyfolk?



I dunno maybe its coz were Irish that we dont have this problem over here.


I'm opting out. We have it all too nicey nicey in Leprechaun Land.

[The Overfiend]

The reason there is hope now for the good hearted mofo's to prosper is because after the recent losses in techno, all that's left are the people with drive, yeah a few cocokroaches survived but this is the quiet after the storm. Or is it the eye of the storm and the shift will occur soon? ;)
I think what may be wrong as well is the business side of things.
How many people who receive contracts actually go to a lawyer friend
and ask if they are getting f*cked?

Swaps and releases on labels with mates is something totally different.
In a situation like that trust is the contract and the expense for breaching a friend contract is gossip.........see the pattern people?

[massplanck]

Maybe you don`t encounter the shadyness massplank. Do you have any label/distribution/promotion dealings in the scene?

Have done. And yeah when MONEY comes into it things get ropey. But thats the case for every commercial enterprise be it Banks/Sheep/Hashish.

But I thought techno was anti-commercial?

[The Overfiend]

what shadyness?
Take a look around the BA board. All is good. Its the people who arent really into techno/etc who tend to act shady .


But we are talking about the industry side of techno and the dealings that occur, not the Boa Board :doh:

[massplanck]

what shadyness?
Take a look around the BA board. All is good. Its the people who arent really into techno/etc who tend to act shady .


But we are talking about the industry side of techno and the dealings that occur, not the Boa Board :doh:

But every aspect of the industry is represented on this board in some shape or form no? Just deal with the personalities here.

[The Overfiend]

I like that your debating this Planck.
So tell me what will you do for this music,
how much do you love it?

[massplanck]

I like that your debating this Planck.
So tell me what will you do for this music,
how much do you love it?


Listen I love it enough to have dumped my fiance because of it. Beat that!


I dunno sam. I thought the main point of this thread was people complaining babout the lack of good quality techno arpound. I disagree .. its there. But alot of it has been released over ther last few years and is waiting to be unearthed.

2. Then Someone mentioned gucci shades and ponytails and said stop blaming the artists for the ****ed up industry.

I think they meant to say that they got ripped off by a few hundred quid and are disgruntled. I meet very few arseholes in the techno scene and any arseholes I do meet could never really be called techno heads or whatever.

You are just pissed off with commericalism in general and the bullshit it brings methinks. And arseholes. Whatever music they are into.

[Jimfish]

techno is i suppose anti-commercial in a sense but people still have to make some money out of it.. where are all those studio gadjets supposed to come from let alone paying the rent and feeding urself..

i think the lack of money in techno is more damaging. Everyone is just twiddling about on pcs with pirated software.. nobody can afford to work in a different way which is sad.. and with regards to contracts and the business side, not many people bother with them at the mo not least because there is no money to get fu*ked out of anyways..

it could go either way. the fact that there is no money could mean the majority says "**** it", totally ignores the financial side and concerns themself purely with the music and subsidises it some other way or more and more people will try to emulate the sounds that do still sell ok.

at the end of the day for me im sure if i could make good money from it i would have a phat studio with all the daddy toys to experiment with and id be sitting here devoting all my time to it and thus getting better and better very quickly. that to me sounds healthy.

[massplanck]

techno is i suppose anti-commercial in a sense but people still have to make some money out of it.. where are all those studio gadjets supposed to come from let alone paying the rent and feeding urself..

i think the lack of money in techno is more damaging. Everyone is just twiddling about on pcs with pirated software.. nobody can afford to work in a different way which is sad.. and with regards to contracts and the business side, not many people bother with them at the mo not least because there is no money to get fu*ked out of anyways..

it could go either way. the fact that there is no money could mean the majority says "**** it", totally ignores the financial side and concerns themself purely with the music and subsidises it some other way or more and more people will try to emulate the sounds that do still sell ok.

at the end of the day for me im sure if i could make good money from it i would have a phat studio with all the daddy toys to experiment with and id be sitting here devoting all my time to it and thus getting better and better very quickly. that to me sounds healthy.

:clap:

Its like rock-climbing/stamp collecting/ etc.

I nerdy hobby which we'll make **** all money from.

But we just love doing it. And thats why we do it.

[crime]

the recent losses in techno

Why losses? when all the labels worth their salt got picked up by other distributors? to be honest, this shake up of distributors going down has shifted the power balance, and given people who didn't have that chance before to break through.. Lets face it, Just has pretty much filled the shoes of Prime, and other distributors, such as Veto, and Blackhole, have probably aquired more business through this happenning.. Companies spring up and companies go under, it's just the way it is.. people obviously lose out here and there, and an equal amount benefit..

It's good to have a shake up, have things change around, admittedly people have fallen foul, but it's business, I'm not saying it's right, but the whole of the music business, and business in general is dog eat dog, and you have to have everything stitched up. It's just the way it is...

[crime]

at the end of the day for me im sure if i could make good money from it i would have a phat studio with all the daddy toys to experiment with and id be sitting here devoting all my time to it and thus getting better and better very quickly. that to me sounds healthy.

Speaking from experience, I think the only way to get anywhere in this thing is to devote all your time, energy and money into just doing it... Things don't just happen if you sit there waiting for them...

[Jimfish]

well yes..

[Sunil]

I dunno sam. I thought the main point of this thread was people complaining babout the lack of good quality techno arpound. I disagree .. its there. But alot of it has been released over ther last few years and is waiting to be unearthed.
.

It was about the lack of quality hard techno . The point I originally made was that harder techno has lost a lot of people's interest to the point that they aren't even listening or checking it out.. we are talking about records being released at the moment, and to my mind a whole lot of 4/4 hard techno that's out there sounds so stale at the minute. All it takes are a few records or a few producers to really make their mark again so we'll see what happens. I dunno maybe it's just me, I'm just getting more choosy about records these days, but at the same time I'm getting records both new and old that are still sounding good so it ain't that bad :)

[The Overfiend]

I like that your debating this Planck.
So tell me what will you do for this music,
how much do you love it?


Listen I love it enough to have dumped my fiance because of it. Beat that!


I dunno sam. I thought the main point of this thread was people complaining babout the lack of good quality techno arpound. I disagree .. its there. But alot of it has been released over ther last few years and is waiting to be unearthed.

2. Then Someone mentioned gucci shades and ponytails and said stop blaming the artists for the **** up industry.

I think they meant to say that they got ripped off by a few hundred quid and are disgruntled. I meet very few arseholes in the techno scene and any arseholes I do meet could never really be called techno heads or whatever.

You are just pissed off with commericalism in general and the bullshit it brings methinks. And arseholes. Whatever music they are into.

I didn't say anything about me being ripped off.
I would also like to know where this shambala of a techno scene of nice people you have encountered is located.
Also why would me out of all people have anything against commercialism?
I live in the capitalist capital of the world, if you gave me 10,000 to remix mc hammer I would do it. But believe 5,000 of that will go towards equip and starting another label.

[The Overfiend]

the recent losses in techno

Why losses? when all the labels worth their salt got picked up by other distributors? to be honest, this shake up of distributors going down has shifted the power balance, and given people who didn't have that chance before to break through.. Lets face it, Just has pretty much filled the shoes of Prime, and other distributors, such as Veto, and Blackhole, have probably aquired more business through this happenning.. Companies spring up and companies go under, it's just the way it is.. people obviously lose out here and there, and an equal amount benefit..

It's good to have a shake up, have things change around, admittedly people have fallen foul, but it's business, I'm not saying it's right, but the whole of the music business, and business in general is dog eat dog, and you have to have everything stitched up. It's just the way it is...

Very Very True and I am not disagreeing with you but there are losses in the sense that I am talking about the lil guy. Who may have not been picked up by other distribs. Other wise I agree with your point. my point is after this shake up who is going to step up and try to do things right with a fair business sense, and an actual love for the music and a sound mind to handle the biz in a fair and just manner.

[The Divide]

I feed off the bullshit and actually grow stronger from it.

Yea, avoid the bullshitters.



Listen I love it enough to have dumped my fiance because of it. Beat that!

Yea man, Ive run up about 2G of debt in the last year just so I can spend more time in the studio doing the thing I love and I feel its done me good. This is to come to an end soon tho. I cant afford to carry on living this way, as Jim said the lack of funds is damaging. I will have to stop spending time in the studio to work part time at tesco's (or whatever) whilst studing for my degree. Cant see me been able to buy anymore new kit too when the loan runs out.

As you said techno will always be there in some shame or form, I will be making techno for as long as I have the spare time to do it and enough food on the table to feed the wife and 9 kids :lol:

Why do we put up with bullshit tho? Sure the E induced honeymoon period is over but that doesnt mean people should be undercutting each other. I dont claim to be ‘in the know’ but I do think the scene is shrinking and I dont really see it as all bad. Less greed and corporate thinking and more networking between the people sharing the same interests and passions. At the end of the day, those people will survive as they will be one step ahead of the ones out there for the dough. I know if I feel any kind of distrust between people I have to deal with I wont work with them, its a survival thing. My sympathies go out to artists who get ripped. Although I havnt had this experiance myself ;) . Yea sure, we aren’t in this game for the money. But what happens when you cant afford to spend time in the studio to get your head down. Dont you think that would feel a little bit disheartening? Is honesty too much to ask for these days?

I personally believe in networking with the good people out there who are in this game for the right reasons, not there own back pocket. People you can call friends and not business associates

I wouldnt go as far as saying this is the reason for hard techno for shooting itself tho. Just following whats been posted on the thread and adding my 2 cents. Its a problem within the music biz in general. I just dont see why it has to be this way within a scene thats sooo non comercial

[The Overfiend]

Is honesty too much to ask for these days?



Pre f*cking Cisely!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sunil]

.
But other than that who knows, maybe techno emphasises frequencies that attract shadyfolk?



I dunno maybe its coz were Irish that we dont have this problem over here.


I'm opting out. We have it all too nicey nicey in Leprechaun Land.

There's shady people everywhere, and I wouldn't say Ireland hasn't had its fair share or dodgy figures in the dance scene. We're too small a country and too out of the way geographically to have a distribution company but that's not to say that there haven't been labels here that have lost their bollocks or been ripped off, there have... but hey 200 people lost their job in a factory somewhere today, that's business and that's the way it goes. The distribution mess has ****ed a lot of labels over but that was down to a relatively small amount of bad businessmen and dishonourable people, not to mention plain bad luck; it's also worth adding that there have been a fair amount of companies that have stayed afloat and not messed their people around. Presumably lessons have been learnt though, and lets hope the industry can even itself off a bit to make it worth everyone's while.

[massplanck]

[quote="Sunil"]

There's shady people everywhere, and I wouldn't say Ireland hasn't had its fair share or dodgy figures in the dance scene. [quote]

never said that.

& I wasnt being all twee neither.

ii'll go get me crock o gold.


http://www.butlerwebs.com/holidays/images/leprechauns-el_small.gif

[The Overfiend]

Plancks lucky charms are magically delicious.

[Dustin Zahn]

I agree. The lack of proper professionalism in this industry is ****ing HORRIBLE. The only reason the "scene" is so stale is because:

A) the excess of producers have no clue and/or direction of what they're doing.
B) they don't understand the long term effect on in the industry when they release shitty records.
C) most labels and distributors are about as professional as an 8 year old's lemonade stand (don't know if you cats have those in Europe).

Basically, you'll be extremely hard-pressed to find people who actually carry out proper business ettiqute (sp?) in this industry. Pile on a bunch of crappy records that are cool for about a week and the result is a cess pool of cliche dance music.

[crime]

Very Very True and I am not disagreeing with you but there are losses in the sense that I am talking about the lil guy. Who may have not been picked up by other distribs.

the only way you'll end up with no distribution deal is if you were on a P+D deal (Press and distribution), which to be honest, is asking for trouble, you don't own your own label in real terms, and you have no option to take it to another distributor should the one you're dealing with go down.
I've found, that when you're spending your own money on pressing records, you're a damn site more carefull on what you put out, and you'll have a bit more of a plan of what will sell and what won't..
Sorry, but don't have much sympathy for people whinging that were on P+D deals, you stuck yourself in the fire, stick your money where your mouth is....

[gunjack]

:rambo:

[massplanck]

Plancks lucky charms are magically delicious.

Would you believe you cant even buy them over here? :lol:

[massplanck]

:rambo:

easy! you've been on very good behaviour this week!! ;)

[The Overfiend]

Very Very True and I am not disagreeing with you but there are losses in the sense that I am talking about the lil guy. Who may have not been picked up by other distribs.

the only way you'll end up with no distribution deal is if you were on a P+D deal (Press and distribution), which to be honest, is asking for trouble, you don't own your own label in real terms, and you have no option to take it to another distributor should the one you're dealing with go down.
I've found, that when you're spending your own money on pressing records, you're a damn site more carefull on what you put out, and you'll have a bit more of a plan of what will sell and what won't..
Sorry, but don't have much sympathy for people whinging that were on P+D deals, you stuck yourself in the fire, stick your money where your mouth is....

Respected Point :!:

[slavestudios]

STOP SITTIN ABOUT DISSECTING IT & GO MAKE SUMTHIN NEW !



:lol:

[spiralx]

STOP SITTIN ABOUT DISSECTING IT & GO MAKE SUMTHIN NEW !



:lol:
:lol:

Very true! Perhaps all the people producing new and interesting stuff have been sucked into arguing here rather than being in the studio ;)

[The Overfiend]

So the way to solve a problem is to ignore it and hope it fades away right? :roll:

[spiralx]

*shrug*

Arguments here aren't going to change anything, people will produce what they like/think will sell/whatever and they're not going to read this thread and think "Fu*k! I'm destroying techno! I'd better change my style this instant."

I would imagine that most people that are into techno like what's currently being played. Some people will be looking for something different and there'll always be people pushing boundaries and putting new stuff out. Over time if it gets popular enough it becomes mainstream and you end up with a "genre". Some people don't like that because it means a lot music ends up being similar to an extent, some people do like it because of the same reason.

This thread isn't going to change anything, what will is a) producers coming up with new stuff and b) people being willing to go out on a limb and push it at parties. At any point in time something is going to be the mainstream, people are going to be putting out cookie-cutter tracks and labels are going to be flogging them. But I don't think that this has any bearing on any overall "problem" with the techno scene.

[Clarkus]

A) the excess of producers have no clue and/or direction of what they're doing.
B) they don't understand the long term effect on in the industry when they release shitty records.
C) most labels and distributors are about as professional as an 8 year old's lemonade stand (don't know if you cats have those in Europe).


A)Of course there will be an excess of producers, it's quite a few folks dreams to produce there own music and have some nutters jump about the dancefloor to it.
As for having no clue, are they meant to just pick up a copy of 'how to make astoundingly good techno' from the library and hey presto, your a god damn techno genius. :study: As you know, it doesn't quite work like that. You'll always be letting yourself away with things that you shouldn't. It is your track after all and its a gradual learning process.
B)They will all be trying to get released on labels, throwing their latest attempt out and seeing what response they get. They obviously don't think to themselves 'that could be ten times better, i better work on that some more' because in their eyes, the track is complete.
I would blame the labels for releasing shite, not the producer, who obviously thinks its a belter of a track and will be flattered by the thought that someone else thinks it is good enough to be pressed and do it for them.
C)No i haven't seen any 8 year olds selling lemonade of late, there mostly out smashing stuff up and smoking crack (Joke) :lol:

We'll never have a perfect indusrty, but as long as theres a few folk out there doing thinks right. Other folk can learn and hopefully make things a little better.

[gunjack]

:rambo:

easy! you've been on very good behaviour this week!! ;)


http://www.templeofblood.com/~ncc386/ubb_images/your_post_jaws.jpg

[The Divide]

HAHAHAHAHAHA :lol:

[The Overfiend]

http://rds.yahoo.com/S=96062883/K=laughing/v=2/l=IVS/*-http://www.sourdoughslim.com/images/laughing-slim.jpg

[The Overfiend]

*shrug*

Arguments here aren't going to change anything,

This thread isn't going to change anything,

But I don't think that this has any bearing on any overall "problem" with the techno scene.

Revolutions always start small.
It seems like there are two different arguments going on.
One from the fan perspective the other from inside the industry.
The fan says nuttin wrong, the insider knows his pockets are a lil shy and the quality of releases lately are a lil lackluster. Not a generalization because out of 20 records 5 or 6 are f*cking ill. Yes there is great shit coming out too lately. The dark crew is going to turn heads this year but so are the rest of us with love for the music not our pockets for the music.
And yes crime I will put to money where the mouth is champ. ;)

[crime]

I will put to money where the mouth is champ. ;)

Best way mate... ;)