FAO Mark - RE: Wilson/Remus production

[eyes without a face]

hey mark, im only just getting into production and im finding it hard. just wondering if u had any tips for creating a real driving sound, im full of ideas but got alot of trouble getting them down. im going for the full on Wilson, Remus pounding style, i love it and the tracks ive made so far dont really resemble wot i wish to make



just any tips about timing, geting that bass sound etc



cheers



scotty
Edited by: markeg3000 at: 10/15/02 3:40:14 pm

[MARKEG]

Tell me exactly what the spec of your studio is...

[eyes without a face]

only software based at the moment im afraid, ive got :



2.4 Ghz Pentium 4, 512 mb DDRAM running



Fruity 3

Reason2

SoundForge

various other software bits n bobs



plus thousands of samples collected from numerous locations



ive got a friend called Dj Amok from Germany who uses just fruity soley and u shud hear his work, its really impressive hard techno



i know i havent got an amazing setup yet and i realise that synths, drum machines etc are better than just software setup, but i thought maybe u could still help me out



ta

[MARKEG]

Your problem is NOT your software set up!!!



Drum Machines and Synths are NOT the key to giving you that hard techno sound - NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE HAS TOLD YOU!



I think there's a future way of thinking for many producers now - the power lies inside your computer - so use it!



The key to hard techno such as Wilson (even Adam Beyer/Marco Bailey etc) is making tracks sound full by using lots and lots percussion - tonnes more than you actually think you need.



Then you need to understand compression in it's entirely. Compression is, for me, the single most important thing I ever sat down and learnt.

[eyes without a face]

thanks alot mate



ive been using the compression inside Fruity and altho i know how to get a decent sound with it, i dont actually understand how it works



il have to have a look on the net i think and get my head round a few things

[MARKEG]

I believe Fruity Loops is a great program to get started on, but it just doesn't cut it professionally. I think at your stage, the best thing I can recommend is keep on going with Fruity Loops, but look at other popular programs like Cubase/Logic and start learning how to use their Audio Capabilities.

[eyes without a face]

thats exactly wot im planning to do mark, ive got Reason and Fruity for now because i can do everyhting within them whilst also exploring Cubase (both sx and VST5), trying to get hold of Logic cos i know theyve stopped making it for the PC now havent they? ive a few friends who use it, namely Ade Fenton for professional use



il try get my stuff that ive done so far on the net for u to hear

[Simon Pitt]

I've got Reason 2.0 aswell and I'm trying to get my head round it, what's your thoughts on it's use and capabilities, I've found it hard get round Cubase and in theory if you understand the software fully I should be able to get the same sort of sound from it? (probably not, but it raises an interesting question)

[eyes without a face]

well simon not strictly true cos Reason is an all in one software studio, its got its own drum machine, sampler, synths etc and is designed so that u can create whole tracks using wots contained in the program, where as Cubase is more of a recording package where u record the sounds ur getting out of ur external hardware. i think thats correct, please feel free to point out my errors



i think Reason is wikid, if a little tricky to use at times, i think Fruity is better to b honest, but maybe thats just cos im used to it?



wot sorta stuff do u make? anychance i can hear it?

[Simon Pitt]

Not made anything yet m8, I'm really learning from the start right now, I'm at the beginning of a long road! But looking forward to getting into it

[Hakka.]

Yeah, Reason is more or less a complete package using software versions of hardware I think.



I'm using CuBase VST instruments and comressor plugins to get what I want... and it's starting to work well.



Waves VST

Enigma VST

Re-Birth VSTi



Is some of the above I use on CuBase... gives nice midi to work with for riff's ect and I use ACID to get samples of percussion to right tempo and compression to get the "gel'd" feeling with bass samples I'v tinkerd with.



Reason I find has a pooh compressor, but this is comming from a voice of inexperience and self teaching.




Nothing more... Nothing Less...

[MARKEG]

I've been on this production rubbish for around 7 years now. If you want my recommendation:



Fruity/Reason is OK for making loops but should NO WAY be used entirely to make finished products. >

Acid is essential for putting any loops together from Fruity/Reason/Sample CD's/Samples... (and use LOTS of them for techno) >

Cubase or Logic are what you use next for importing your exported loops.. use any further VSTi's/ Effects and MIDI to add that something special >

NEXT > arrange your track in Cubase/Logic >

Then record Your track....

Soundforge is your final mastering tool to add reverse/changes/maximizing etc....



This works for us.... Let us know your own ways of making techno....

[sinner]

While I'm not going to outright disagree with you about software being a better solution, I have always felt more comfortable, more in control, and all around much happier using actual hardware to accomplish things.



I dont have much experience using software past Cubase and have been actively buying up used MIDI gear now that its much cheaper than it used ot be, especially with places like Ebay, but whenever I try to get things done using just software, I feel somewhat detached from the music without having actual keys and knobs and buttons at my disposal.



I can see the great value in software, especially loops and fixing timing issues, but I still get my best work done using only a Silicon Graphics machine with Cubase I found on Ebay, and the actual MIDI hardware.



I have been using MIDI gear for 10 years now, and I'm quite use to it, but software doesnt seem like half the fun of actually creating things.



Its hard to move the mouse around while you're bouncing



Just my 2 cents.



Mike


Edited by: sinner at: 10/16/02 6:19:38 am

[web of deception]

have you checked out acid 4? its like having a giant canvas, and you just need to paint. the new version has soft synth plugins and efx automation. and you could easily make the sound you are looking for. all those other programs work well for other things (loops,sounds, etc...). they just seem limited in how you can chop stuff up, and rearrange things to get original sounding audio clips. you should check it out, its a real basic program.

[MARKEG]

Acid is our main program for creating techno loops. And yes, I managed to get hold of Acid 4 - 3 days after the beta was released.



I found big problems with glitches but perhaps this is my computer (mind u it's v powerful - built by millenium ,uk). I reckon the potential of this program is massive. It's everything I ever wished for from Acid. My god, the MIDI implications are SICK. I always wished I could input notes but couldn't. This changes everything.



Plus the VST inst support - MY GOD...



I love it... just why the **** do I get the glitches in audio ??!!?!!!!



Perhaps I'll change my whole PC setup soon cause of this. BUT seeing as though I just bought a G4laptop... hehhe.... maybe not quite yet...

[MARKEG]

hehe... Mike that's funny!!!! bounce.. bounce... bounce...



you know, i think each to there own and different people work differently. i used to have alot of midi stuff, but sampled it and got rid of so much of it. i just prefered the all-in-one solution for sounds/perc with the outboard stuff being comps/effect units etc etc. the mackie desk is essential to me too, to add that analog warnth that you can't get from a comp.



but i know so many producers who swear by midi and if you've got the cash - do it! i think for people starting out though, it is possible to get a pretty decent sounding techno track done with a simple comp and a few bits of inexpensive outboard.

[DJZeMig_L]

hope ya all don't mind me havin' a few words :



1- U should work with what u feel confortable with.. and 4 has long as it does what ya need!! This could mean fruity, cubase, logic, acid, what ever... I've made a few nice (at least my friends like it lol :P) noises with any of 'em ... But I also love harware...

All in all aproach software as a new thing and not like something that's supposed 2 sound like a certain equip...



it's really up 2 yer taste & imagination .. compression is very cool but it's a very long and steep learning curve... I've been more addicted 2 it in the past.

A good use of eq (restricting each sound 2 it's fundamental sound - I know this is a very sensitive subject!), smart use of little panning, maybe some subtle reverb (depending on style).. but most of all carefull with levels (mixing levels).. don't use just yer ears.. use also your eyes on the meters... U can have a powerfull kick at x db then don't use doble that!!



I love the new Cubase, love soft synth & hardware .. use both... but I must say a software sampler works a lot better 4 me!

4 pre-mastering / edits.. my prefered tool is by far Wavelab!!!



Mark... the problem U have seems similar 2 what Cisco had a month ago on his Titanium... Althoug I don't really know much of Mac I suggested updating the extensions (extension manager).. presto it workz fine now... btw the prob was he hadden't updated the ext after installing reaktor... maybe u have te same bcause of acid 4. ... hope this helpz.



Z

[MARKEG]

This is very good advice indeed.... eq and volume levels are, actually much more important than compression in the long run. i suppose it depends on whatever level you're at as to what really matters.



I think we need to start some new posts... I'll put some up right now...