Go against the grain?... Or not...

[scotttechfunk]

Here's an interesting one for you... (or not, as the case may be)... When approaching the arrangement of a track, I always find it difficult deciding whether to bring major new parts of the arrangement in after 4 bars, 8 bars, or whatever. Part of me wants to just chuck bits in here there and everywhere to spice it up, but where do you draw the line? I mean, I don't wanna create tracks that are undanceable because there's no real structure, know what I mean? But at the same time I don't wanna create tracks where you know something new is gonna happen at X interval. Does all that make sense? At the moment I'm putting stuff where I think it works, but 9 times out of 10 that seems to be after every 8 bars... Is this normal learning curve type Sh*t?!...

[DJZeMig_L]

Make sure u do small breaks 2 rest yer ears.. go on the living room and dance 2 yer track... turn off the PC monitors so u don't c the arragement, listen 2 it... go with the music most times if u give yer ears enought rest U'll b able 2 get a feel for the type of arrangement that works 4 ya. I have no fixed standards so I always have 2 surf the dificult balance between boredom and over-activity!

Z

[professor]

listening to the music is the key. Like Z says, don't watch the arrangement scroll while you listen. (maybe close you eyes and hit space bar where you feel a change needs to happen)

[scotttechfunk]

Yeah I've just recently started doing that, turning the monitor off, its really helpful. The most frustrating thing about producing though is spending two hours doing something one night, going to bed thinking "yeah that's great", wake up the next day and hear it and go "uuuuuuuuurgh!"... Or maybe that's just me doing that!... Cheers for your replies anyway fellas.

[Komplex]

don't listen to your stuff first thing in the morning. listen to it later on in the day.


i find that my sense of hearing is warped first thing in the morning.

[The Divide]

I always go against the grain. Mac 3's just don’t quite cut it even when going along it. You get such a close & clean shave that way.


Also try and play things in live. Always worth an attempt

[Evil G]

lately i've been trying to break out of using formulas by jamming out "solos" on the keyboard, then fitting the drum changes to the solos. sometimes after i've done that i take the synth part out, and just leave the structure behind.

[TechMouse]

It's kind of cheating, I know, but it's often really helpful to copy the arrangement of a track you like. Once you've done this a few times you'll start to get a good idea of what kind of stuff works well in the various styles of music you like.

It's also worth noting that Techno more than any other kind of dance music seems to have a licence to be truly free-form in structure.

For example, with stuff like Breaks (my other favourite), most tracks have an intro... a 1st sequence... a breakdown... a big drop followed by a main sequence... another breakdown... then one more massive drop followed by ramming the whole thing home with a final sequence and then an outro. Obviously this is just a general case, but it's a forumla I often follow quite a lot to reasonable effect. (i.e. You can break all the rules, but sometimes you'll end up with tracks which don't work quite so well on the dancefloor, or which DJ's will avoid like the plague).

With Techno there's much fewer rules about how tracks are arranged. Some build and build, some bring elements in and out over time, some evolve slowly etc. Just about everything is fair game - though in my experience certain stuff works better in certain styles.

[RichieV]

formulas are usually there because they make sense
Producers did'nt just decide dance music should be in 8 bar phrases , it just makes sense. Like having the backbeat on 2 and 4. Purposelly trying to do things different because it is different is musically immature. Just do what sounds good.

[professor]

musically immature.


?

[The Divide]

Try doubling the tempo. If it’s at 140 sequence it at 280. It makes you think more about the track and less of this 17 33 and so on, the way the snap works and who synchronization is altered. You tend to go less by how things look and more on how it feels.

Don’t copy someone else’s structure. I don’t see the point myself. You track should change evolve break when you feel it should. Not because someone else’s track did

Hardly going against the grain is it?

Alternatively you could investigate in different ways of programming midi. Via step sequencers, rhythmic envelopes and assignable modulation/automation routing. Even try a different sequencing package to make a certain bit of the track or do some live recordings of synths been tweaked

Turning the monitor off is a class idea. I do this a lot. I am also into visuals and looking at colours and shit too. Try to associate a colour to the sound and help paint the overal picture :lol: Even better one of my friends has a way of using his imagination to associate the whole mix to something, live an occurrence or event. Describing it and shit, it’s really good and it makes you think about what you’re going to add to it to stimulate the imagination in this way.

Do what professor said only use a midi controller keyboard and some sounds too :lol:

Also I have made the mistake of making tracks that are pretty dam hard to dj because I used to have a break after the first 17 bars and before the 33 mark. In the mix it would be a nightmare so I would recommend keeping it friendly for at least the first 33 bars perhaps?

just a few thoughts

[RichieV]

musically immature.


?

anything done where the final goal is not music oriented
IE doing something because its different as opposed to doing something different because musically it sounds cool.

The second one being mature.
Same thinking behind lets say a drummer that does a fill because he can as opposed to a drummer that does a fill because it fits

[MangaFish]

Here's an interesting one for you... (or not, as the case may be)... When approaching the arrangement of a track, I always find it difficult deciding whether to bring major new parts of the arrangement in after 4 bars, 8 bars, or whatever. Part of me wants to just chuck bits in here there and everywhere to spice it up, but where do you draw the line? I mean, I don't wanna create tracks that are undanceable because there's no real structure, know what I mean? But at the same time I don't wanna create tracks where you know something new is gonna happen at X interval. Does all that make sense? At the moment I'm putting stuff where I think it works, but 9 times out of 10 that seems to be after every 8 bars... Is this normal learning curve type Sh*t?!...

i do find that when i want to throw in a major change at an unexpected interval, i have a slight build of some sort (just a couple of beats long most times). i think this makes the track flow better whilest still keeping its relatively unpredictable - if you get me

[DJZeMig_L]

It's a fine Balance between boring people and bombarding then with 2 many changes in little time... That's something u gotta listen and let the track speak 2 ya (sounds a fit like pockett philosophie).. I mean when U r on a dance floor u kinda get a feel 4 what's going 2 happen... It's what's been described just be4 my post... U really gotta listen 2 the hints on the music u r doing .. if u do that U can feel that a break is coming, etc... 'cause basically 2 don't want 2 b predictable but you also don't want 2 do non sense music... U used 2 program loads of changes and stuff and then found that I would spend my time trying 2 adapt the track 2 the next change so it made sense! lol

turn off yer screen and go dance with yer eyes closed on the living room!!.. get some friends and beers while U'r at it :roll: lol

Z