why are distributions keep going broke?

[tocsin]

There`s simply not enough people buying records.
The rave generation is growing up, and turning into middle age wine bar lounge lizards who don`t rave any more.
We need to make the kids realise that the rebellion, punk attitude and alternative standpoint they perceive to be a part of the rock genre, is an actual reality in the world and music of techno.

I agree with this part. But, with music that doesn't often have words, it can be hard for people to pick up on that. Needs a visual element.

[Ritzi Lee]

Maybe it's a good idea to picture this market.
Now we all talk about:
- There are too many labels.
- There are too many crap releases.
- The distributions can't take it anymore.
- The record shops go down by an overkilling release offer.

I'm in need for (and maybe you to) a registration system where we can see:
- Who are the labels?
- What releases are planned in the next view months?
- Who are the distributions, and what do they have to offer?
- Who are the recordshops? What do they have to offer?
- Are all releases covered / filled in / homogeniously covered worldwide?

I think if we know what's moving along,
we can have more control in the market.
This will benefits the market.
But the only way is to organise a worldwide manifest.
Maybe through internet. And we need some guidelines to register all music in a proper way, with an account for all labels, stores, distributions. And all the data accesible for all these people, including the artists who make the music.

There are enough motivations to think of why everyone should cooperate. :)

[Fake DJ]

Just when I think we had the worst,
the hurting keeps going on.
Now i'm hearing bad news from the German sellers that it's a matter of time before some distributions are going down again.

Some say the market is just overkilled with a lot of crap.
Some say there are too many small labels with music from unknown artists. And so you can think of a lot of reasons....

But i think it has totally nothing to do with the music.
I think it's a matter of doing marketing. How the system works now.
And ofcourse the state of our economy.

I mean; in the last 14 / 16 years there was a lot of techno.
And also from the little unknown people. And the music and / or quality was good. I think this isn't changed at all. People are still making quality stuff. But the people who deal with the system of selling records doesn't care for music. They just look at the sale sheets, and catagorise music in genres, and famous artists. And without listening they decide if they want to sell it or not...

We're still dealing with a system of 4 years ago from where it all went wrong!

My suggestion: Start all over again!
Just look back at how the people did it 12 / 14 years ago.

Objective or not?

IMO i think the biggest thing that is killing the scene in this way is downloading, simple as

there arent enough people (in my mind) that care nough about the scene that they r willing to buy tunes instead of gettin them off soulseek etc.

End of day i donload shit loads but i see it as a way of listening to a tune and trying it out before i buy it, if i do like a tune or if there is gonna be a chance i may play it in future etc i will buy it simple as, supposrting the scene, supporting the artist, supoorting the label keeping food on table for everyone and a nice 12" in my box :lol:

but not everyone is willing to do that, for some people it is easy come easy go and so it will just be easy go and then who will be to blame then!!!!


Rules of fair trade!!! You have to pay! (And no that doesnt mean giving a small donation to ppl that run soulseek because **** all of that goes to any artists!!!!)
just my thoughts

[fatcollective]

so like other dodgy download sites...shouldnt soulseek be illegal and shut down...i know people get there mp3s for free but surley it is causing a major problem to the market :?:

[dirty_bass]

I`m not even sure it`s down to downloading.
the majority of record sales were to Bedroom DJ`s. All with a hope of someday being Jeff Mills or Pete Tong or whatever. Now the bubble burst with superclubs, as it was a pisstake, and superstar DJ`s just aren`t cool and dreams have been shattered and so there is less hope of success.
Most of the bedroom DJ`s are now buying up fruityloops and Ejay, and because they see that anyone can release a record, due to the amount of little labels in techno, they are looking at this as their dream.
Bedroom DJ`s have become Bedroom Producers.

[Dave Elyzium]

someoen ementioned the days when record stores HAD to go with a distributor and HAD to buy a certain amount each month..so the dists had a certain element of control over the scene...nowadays though its so easy to buy your records direct from the labels/artists involved that distributors dont carry that much clout anymore.......i remember a few years back when Infectious Distribution packed their bags and ****ed off soon after i signed a deal with them to carry Elyzium Records releases....i remember half the ****ign scene lost out big time both in terms of money and future prospects......kev energy did a wicked job gettign his collective back up after that fiasco and look where he is today.....bottom line i dont trust distributors!

[fatcollective]

I`m not even sure it`s down to downloading.
the majority of record sales were to Bedroom DJ`s. All with a hope of someday being Jeff Mills or Pete Tong or whatever. Now the bubble burst with superclubs, as it was a pisstake, and superstar DJ`s just aren`t cool and dreams have been shattered and so there is less hope of success.
Most of the bedroom DJ`s are now buying up fruityloops and Ejay, and because they see that anyone can release a record, due to the amount of little labels in techno, they are looking at this as their dream.
Bedroom DJ`s have become Bedroom Producers.

i think you got a good point there.

[Larney]

Main problem is too many P&D deals by distributors leading to too many labels pushing out inferior records. If labels had to pay their own manufacture costs upfront there would be less records and less crap!

[tocsin]

I'm all in support of downloading. I actively encourage people to download anything I've worked on and, for the tracks that have been released, they've often been floating around on the net for a good amount of time before a label hears it or decides to release it. I think it is crazy to fight downloading. Especially if you are about DIY. There is nothing more DIY than the internet. It is strict word of mouth. It is also free when people want it to be. There has been too much going on over the past 8 years, a lot of which has been discussed in this thread, which has contributed to the decline in record sales. Downloading may play a part but I have a hard time believing it's the soul contributing factor. I've seen one person use Final Scratch at any event I've attended and that was to play their own music. I hear more cutting edge music through what I find on the internet than I ever find on vinyl. By the time I pick something up on vinyl, I'm usuallu hearing the same artist pushing themself even further with mp3s they are giving out over the net. However, I've never really cared for the money structure in this "industry" so I'm probably the wrong person to talk. Not that I have a problem with people who want money for their music. But, I appreciate artists who give it out on the net a lot more. That music tends to reach further as well since it's not limited to physical nodes conected to stores, distributors and number of pressings. You lose the sentimental value by bot having a hard piece of black plastic or vinyl in your hand but that is about it.

[TiagoTechnoHead]

Excellent topic !!!!!! :clap: My view is : Labels needs to expand distribution !!!! It´s hard to buy some vinyl here in Brazil , we have to order it in the internet and when we do this , we pay expensive prices !!!!! Maybe , if the tunes were sold here , surelly people will buy ......

Better distribution will not solve the problem , but it will help it in parts !!!!

[Ritzi Lee]

Excellent topic !!!!!! :clap: My view is : Labels needs to expand distribution !!!! It´s hard to buy some vinyl here in Brazil , we have to order it in the internet and when we do this , we pay expensive prices !!!!! Maybe , if the tunes were sold here , surelly people will buy ......

Better distribution will not solve the problem , but it will help it in parts !!!!

You see this is my point!
There's totally no overview at all.
We are all blindfolded by the system. :)

And we never talk about places like Russia, Asia,
Afrika. Or even the f***ng nordpole. :lol:

[Ritzi Lee]

Maybe it's a good idea to picture this market.
Now we all talk about:
- There are too many labels.
- There are too many crap releases.
- The distributions can't take it anymore.
- The record shops go down by an overkilling release offer.

I'm in need for (and maybe you to) a registration system where we can see:
- Who are the labels?
- What releases are planned in the next view months?
- Who are the distributions, and what do they have to offer?
- Who are the recordshops? What do they have to offer?
- Are all releases covered / filled in / homogeniously covered worldwide?

I think if we know what's moving along,
we can have more control in the market.
This will benefits the market.
But the only way is to organise a worldwide manifest.
Maybe through internet. And we need some guidelines to register all music in a proper way, with an account for all labels, stores, distributions. And all the data accesible for all these people, including the artists who make the music.

There are enough motivations to think of why everyone should cooperate. :)

and this will create some overview if anybody believes in it.

[Ritzi Lee]

so like other dodgy download sites...shouldnt soulseek be illegal and shut down...i know people get there mp3s for free but surley it is causing a major problem to the market :?:

I don't believe mp3's are killing the market.
it just doesn't work this way.

[dirty_bass]

I think we`d all like to get more of our records to brazil, unfortunately your tax system makes import costs soooo high to get stuff in.

[tocsin]

I think we`d all like to get more of our records to brazil, unfortunately your tax system makes import costs soooo high to get stuff in.

I think that maybe he meant buying digital files off of this website when he said "maybe if your tunes were sold here." I understand that labels can make a little more than the artists. But, given the mark ups and other expenses, does it ever really amount to more than $1 or so a record? What are the reasons to keep pressing music to hard mediums if the profit margin isn't that great, that cost of import duties keeps the music largely unavailable in certain regions, and more people are using the net to look for this type of music than they are using physically located record stores?
I'll admit that I almost never go to record stores anymore. It's not even so much because I wouldn't buy records. It's because they usually don't stock anything I like. The ones that did stock music I like cut back on the supply of music that I liked so it was often gone by the time I could get to one and most have recently closed their physical doors. In fact, from about 2000 through present, if it weren't for friends connected to distro houses or companies, I would not have bought any records at all largely because I would not have found many sounds I liked. I'd be limited to the choice of polished jungle, house, or trance. I spin none of that. When I was buying records that I liked at stores, before I had the distro hook up when things went down hill, it would cost me $12 USD to buy something like one SUF record with 2 songs on it. If SUF was selling digital copies of their music for download at the time, I would have definitely bought through their site and it would have cost me much less than
$12. Just wondering if any of the label folks here have considered doing that and, if they have, why they may have decided it's not the way to go? Piracy concerns? Less visibility?

[AcidTrash]

In my opinion every new label that starts is another nail in the scenes coffin.

That's complete toss. It's only a problem when it's a label knocking out exactly whats already out with little to distinguish it from the rest. We need more new labels with more variety.

[tocsin]

Why not do the website sales thing though? Most of the people on this forum at least that have something to do with running a label seem to play out frequently. How much of your living is made from actual vinyl sales? How much promotion is there behind a label? For some reason, I doubt there is lit poster promotion around cities for the artists. ;) Doesn't the hype/promotion for the labels that got other people into it deeper largely come from when you play out? Couldn't just as much effort be put into promoting something like this website to purchase tunes from through CD sales at venues and through distributors? And, hell, couldn't one sell both digital and vinyl? People copy vinyl to mp3 anyways and spread it around. So, it just seems that possibly selling the tunes for a buck or so would be realised profits that are being lost right now. People already have sites so what exactly is the overhead on digital distribution? It's been paid for already without digital distribution.

[fatcollective]

not sure who can answer this but is it only the techno scene that is feeling the effects or is it trance, hardhouse..pop even...or just the more underground market? .... i mean are the big trance labels and hardhouse labels going under aswel :?: :?: :?: :?:

[eviled303]

i couldn't speak for the more popular music, hard house, drum n bass etc, as i have no contact with them, but i'd hazard a guess the record selling side is probably healthier than techno, but because they're more popular doesn't mean they won't struggle. i think techno is seriously struggling in this country, as is the clubscene in general and for the last few years, the people leaving the scene aren't being replaced. the bar culture, the moronic masses festering in town centres up and down the country, alas, are the majority these days, and there are fewer and fewer techno dj's buying the vinyl that the distribution companies need to stay afloat. i know its not as black and white as that, but its a major contributor, along with other factors which have been covered in previous replies to this thread. techno is more underground than its ever been in this country due to a basic lack of interest in that culture. running a techno night is getting harder, making a breakthrough as a new producer or dj is becoming harder, and it needs alot of time, technical knowledge and money to carve out a name for yourself. i think mark e.g. had a good point about the internet and mp3 market, especially with advances like final scratch. if the progression takes dj's to digital, instead of buying a record from a shop, or ordering a record on the internet, why not just pay for the same tune as a download? surely that would help the cost of distribution if it was all digital? its an important issue if the scene here is to stay alive, i really hope it does, this music is in my blood, but at risk of sounding like a pessimist, i don't hold out alot of hope for the future of techno in 'i'mabigbrotherpopidolgetmeanaenima' generation of ben sherman shirts and peroxide hair. phew!!! rant over i think!!!

[Craig McW]

So what y'all saying is anyone out there who is new to production and wanting to make a name for themselves by starting their own label should forget it because they're killing the scene? And that those people should leave it to the professionals or something?

What a load of self important toss....