why are distributions keep going broke?

[dirty_bass]

I doubt whether the updating of vinyl will help at all. It would be nice if there was someway they could improve materials and the sound quality, but I think it would just hike prices in the process.

The point we all forget is this.

It`s all very well saying that vinyl will survive as a DJ instrument, but it won`t if things carry on.

DJ`s can only play vinyl because it supports itself as there is a commercial infrastructure, ie customers who also buy vinyl.
If it gets to the point where the only people using vinyl are professional Jocks, then that`s it, vinyl is dead. Because pro jocks don`t pay for it either. therefore the labels won`t be able to afford to press the vinyl, therefore there will be no more vinyl.
Do you see where this is going?
Less and less "customers" ie bedroom DJ`s are buying vinyl. Deck sales are down, distributers are falling down like flies, dance music is out of fashion, club attendance is down.
Add it all up.

The shit is hitting the fan folks. Now more than ever, we need to start grouping up, pulling together, figuring a way to sort this shit out.
Too many of us are just content to run our little labels, and dream of beng Dave Clarke one day (or whoever).
ie, thinking I rather than WE

What we need is to pull in and figure out a way of sorting this shit out.

Now personally, I am doing what I can, I`m sitting down with all the people I know, and talking about this seriously, discussing what we can do, where we can go, doing research etc. Trying to pull some cohesive plan that we can have, and then spread it to others.

It`s gonna take a lot of time and effort, and the more of us who can discuss it seriously, the more ideas and resources we can pull together, the stronger we will be.

This forum, and this thread is a start. But more needs to be done.

And don`t start posting up replies of "well what are you doing then smart arse etc"
But think more on the lines of "what can I do?"

I would love to seriously and calmy discuss our future and what we can do about it with anyone here. If anyone has any good insights about this subject please, let`s talk. Lets get on the phone, or meet up, or whatever.

We need to communicate more.

Distributers, artists, label owners, DJ`s etc
Lets talk.

[gustavo]

why distributions....etc


ive read here lots of valid reasons

and i could write 8 more pages ...

just one thought

if u put an online mix in mp3... in a good international site...nice mix good dj blablabla

see how many downloads u are going to get ( extimative) 1000

imagine each people had to pay 10 cents per download

100 euros ..divided equally by the labels /artists and the dj (or maybe just the labels/artist´


(u can do thsi in paypal etc)


u know how many hundreds of thousands techno downloads are made per year??


a very low prive per downl would certainly help a lot...

no i dont live in a world with elfs and fairys...this can be realistic...

good servers , great speed blabla...10 cents...20 cents?? i would pay..and everyone who is interested (seriously in techno would pay)

if people dont pay .then its harder to release records..start labels..etcetcetc its a vivious circle
u dont put money in
everything will get hard...and for u too..


basically cause i think MOST of the people are clever enough to understand that if they finance techno they r helping themselves!!!!

i think this would work...

and this idea can be transformed and developed in may ways...

we need to use the technology ..come uo with ideas

instead of losing time and not focusing in what really matters


l8rzzz

[Internal Error Records]

good points.

i think people dont have much problem with paying to support music. the issue is in convienence.

maybe if paypal was literally instant. and no extra typing was done.

i think lots of people dont mind paying $1 for a track, they just dont want to bother going thru the effort.

[Internal Error Records]

other good idea's to consider would be

1)making dj cd players more cost effective (And still have people pay for music not steal off soulseek)

and

2) bring down the cost of vinyl to a level the encourage more purchasing for the vinyl lovers.

as long as people get illegal mp3's no artist who has to pay their rent will support cd's. and if vinyl cost a bit less than that would take some of the edge off aswell.

[dirty_bass]

I doubt vinyl costs will ever go down, as they are a petroleum product.

[Internal Error Records]

I doubt vinyl costs will ever go down, as they are a petroleum product.

i also doubt people will stop downloading stolen songs. so there goes legitimate cd player use.

you gonna make a useful post or just me a know it all with no answers?

[jon connor]

ok dirty bass i will now reveal a part of my secrets, you are not on your own here wot do you think ive been planning to do with supertech my label, not dreaming of dave clarke i can asure you fella! you miss judge me my man, yet i am cooler craftier and cleverer than you think.

i will reveal part of my secret i will not reveal anymore because in this bisniness things are stolen from you rather quickly.

1 market .

ok here we go who do we aim at ? well here it is extreme sports skate boarders/snow boarders etc for 1, first a mission to get techno and stuff cool to them, already ive unleashed a fare bit to them already, sponsor ship, from companys like red bull for events , surrounded by futuristic terrains, lets go play station land, like tony hawks skate park, but have wind tunnels and all sorts of features for the clubber or raver to do., i am currently working with a number of partners to make a uk teknovul with this happening as an experiment for 2006, in a few countrys not just this 1 my son. and i can tell you now i have a very big extreme sports backing.
we need to combine our stuff together with other artist, even bands, how many techno producers i no who have been broght up on guitars i just dont no. the liberaters for example punk dudes who created the whole spectrum of london acid techno with pals etc.

next step why dont we contact manufactures ourselfs with designes ideas, etc, mabey they are screaming out for this but we just dont no it, i have also prepared sum things like this which when completed i will be forwarding to pionneer etc.

dont right off the deck its not the vynyl im getting at steve, its the way us real techno boys like to play it, we like action, energy flying off the decks, making the crowd go whooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! you just dont get same effet with cdjs dude!

i think i was onto a good 1 with a new material etc to put more music on 1 plate, that way we can put a whole new concept into our release and also sattisfy the customer with more value for money. could you imagine beeing able to put 10 tracks that play beutifly on 1 plate. it would be so much more interesting, you could have tracks loops atmospherics,cuts all on 1 disc. but still able to play like a vynyl. i think cillacone may do it, there has got to be somthing there.

young dudes in collage next year i will be doing dj work shop skills once again after a long time off stupidly gettin into promoting, young guys coming up, teaching them. i loved doing this with kids and cant wait to start up again a couple of days a week. i love the smile on there face when they get first mix together,it grips them by the bollox and they are hooked. then aswell as learning them dj skills i will also be showing them how to use start up software like fruity loops, acid etc. its a gate way.

also my freind, dude schranz is getting massive and i meen big, abroad they are singing from the roof tops with it, 16 year old lads etc sending me bombs in the post from malta etc. i can use guys like this as a role model to my students next year.

there is 1 rule tho we have to try do all this and keep under the underground boarder line without going commersial. of course sum electro techno will make charts etc, but dont matter coz they act like messages to people who dont no there is other stuff out there.

im on the same mission as you steve, because i aint got f.u.c.k all else in life but my techno, ive suffered at the hands of ganster twats like your self and feel your passion, lets cut the bull s.h.i.t now and get on with the job, after all music calms the beast, with all other crap going on in world people will always need a bit of freedom.
there is enough power in this thread for all you guys to think hard, and think back to the time you first learnt to mix vynyl, take a note of that now you are a producer, yes we need all these new gadgets, but dont forget there is people out there who cant afford them.vynyl is sacred and it is our job to protect it for as long as we can. ;)

[eyes without a face]

open ur eyes dudes, Dirty is speaking sense... u might not agree with it (i dont agree with some points!) but its the truth

if u wanna get down to the bare bones of it, vinyl is derived from oil thru a process known as fractional distillation, and oil is not cheap, and its not getting cheaper either, plus not enough people are buying vinyl so if anything costs maybe expected to go up rather than down etc etc etc

ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................... i even bored myself there but come on, everyone needs to see both sides of the coin here

[eyes without a face]

i think this post has gone way off its original meaning now, which is a shame

[Internal Error Records]

open ur eyes dudes, Dirty is speaking sense... u might not agree with it (i dont agree with some points!) but its the truth

if u wanna get down to the bare bones of it, vinyl is derived from oil thru a process known as fractional distillation, and oil is not cheap, and its not getting cheaper either, plus not enough people are buying vinyl so if anything costs maybe expected to go up rather than down etc etc etc

ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................... i even bored myself there but come on, everyone needs to see both sides of the coin here

Dirty isnt saying alot wrong. He's just digging deep for ways to get on peoples nerves.

I gotta step out of the forum for a bit. Dirty is working hard to make sure nothing positive is said for furthering vinyl. No point in trying to have a pleasnt coversation when someone is just a trouble maker.

[jon connor]

open ur eyes dudes, Dirty is speaking sense... u might not agree with it (i dont agree with some points!) but its the truth

if u wanna get down to the bare bones of it, vinyl is derived from oil thru a process known as fractional distillation, and oil is not cheap, and its not getting cheaper either, plus not enough people are buying vinyl so if anything costs maybe expected to go up rather than down etc etc etc

ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................... i even bored myself there but come on, everyone needs to see both sides of the coin here

exacltly why im looking for a new material to be devoloped whitch can be played like vynyl on a normal deck, im not having it no way, hands on dj ing is raw, live, and hot stuff. mabey we should get intouch with cambridge university or summit and put it to them to see if it can be done ?
i just cant serennder scot, playing cdjs is boaring to me it just my opinion,(u no wot im talking about scot coz you are a brother in the dance, why not go 1 better and find somthing we can all enjoy and be inspired by, lets revolutionize vynyl, im up for it. who`s wit me ?

i no there is a way! my grandad who is no longer with us was a drafts man and inventor, he redesighned the lancaster bomber in the war, because he found a fault, with the middle of the plane.he found the plane would snap in half on take off when fully loaded with bombs, well im inspired by that because he found a solution to a problem which was effective ,i beleive we can do this to. ;)

[dirty_bass]

Dirty isnt saying alot wrong. He's just digging deep for ways to get on peoples nerves.

I gotta step out of the forum for a bit. Dirty is working hard to make sure nothing positive is said for furthering vinyl. No point in trying to have a pleasnt coversation when someone is just a trouble maker.

haha, erm ok.

nothing positive to say about vinyl?

erm, I`m just going through facts.

I`m not anti vinyl, I`ve got tons of the stuff. I`m just beng realistic.

Starting trouble?

Yeah, that`s all I want to do, start trouble :dontevengothere: :roll:

Now John is talking more sense with the sponsorship and stuff, good show man, good idea, not sure the extreme sports folks will really go for techno in a big way, big phuck it, that`s definitely worth a try.

I think the actual nature of the business needs to change as well.

CD or Digital files, either way, some form of encryption is needed there.

I`m looking into organising more Live gigs in non nightclub enviroments too. Getting the college and UNI crowd into it. But there will be no work for DJ`s within this venture, just live acts. :cry:

As for distribution going down. More quality control is needed really. Got to keep the standard up.

I think the vinyl argument is going to come to a head within the next year though.

anyhow john, I think you took too much of what I was saying far too personally. I was being generic in a lot of comments, such as the Dave Clarke thing, and it wasn`t directed at anyone specific, in fact I said WE as part of it, so it included me.

[The Overfiend]

open ur eyes dudes, Dirty is speaking sense... u might not agree with it (i dont agree with some points!) but its the truth

if u wanna get down to the bare bones of it, vinyl is derived from oil thru a process known as fractional distillation, and oil is not cheap, and its not getting cheaper either, plus not enough people are buying vinyl so if anything costs maybe expected to go up rather than down etc etc etc

ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................... i even bored myself there but come on, everyone needs to see both sides of the coin here

Dirty isnt saying alot wrong. He's just digging deep for ways to get on peoples nerves.

I gotta step out of the forum for a bit. Dirty is working hard to make sure nothing positive is said for furthering vinyl. No point in trying to have a pleasnt coversation when someone is just a trouble maker.

I don't think he has time to take the piss just to piss anyone off, I think he is just that experienced in the situation. Truth does tend to bother people though.

[Internal Error Records]

there is no doubt the this is all rooted in truth.

this thread was started with a fear of what the future may hold.

obviously this was started by someone with a rooted interest in vinyl.

any answer close to 'you are doomed' doesnt really make good advise.

and everybody here has good points.

but using lines like 'the reality is'- translates to imma be a dick and hide behind a fascade of truth.

its amazing how people use the truth to be a jerk.

if this thread can get back to improving the vinyl distribution industry, that would be great. any post other than how to improve vinyl distribution should be in another thread.

[dirty_bass]

no one is doomed, unless they sit on their hands and let themselves be doomed.

[The Overfiend]

there is no doubt the this is all rooted in truth.

this thread was started with a fear of what the future may hold.

obviously this was started by someone with a rooted interest in vinyl.

any answer close to 'you are doomed' doesnt really make good advise.

and everybody here has good points.

but using lines like 'the reality is'- translates to imma be a dick and hide behind a fascade of truth.

its amazing how people use the truth to be a jerk.

if this thread can get back to improving the vinyl distribution industry, that would be great. any post other than how to improve vinyl distribution should be in another thread.

You're the only one turning this kind of outlook towards him man.
Reality and truth hurt. Honesty hurts.

I am getting involved because one it is not anyones place here to discern what belongs where in what thread.

From someone who is a fellow label owner what underlying interests would he have to do anything that was not productive towards this subject matter?

[Evil G]

trends will always come and go, but the fact remains that the world is a big place. all it takes is one person in a million to buy your record and you'll sell a few thousand copies. surely with a bit of clever marketing that's an achievable goal.

some good fresh ideas are needed, but hope is far from lost.

[Internal Error Records]

yes i am one of the heated ones. and defensive. i should get a breather.

i just need this thread to reveal some good suggestions in regards to the several thousand dollars ive spent on the label this year.

[jon connor]

Dirty isnt saying alot wrong. He's just digging deep for ways to get on peoples nerves.

I gotta step out of the forum for a bit. Dirty is working hard to make sure nothing positive is said for furthering vinyl. No point in trying to have a pleasnt coversation when someone is just a trouble maker.

haha, erm ok.

nothing positive to say about vinyl?

erm, I`m just going through facts.

I`m not anti vinyl, I`ve got tons of the stuff. I`m just beng realistic.

Starting trouble?

Yeah, that`s all I want to do, start trouble :dontevengothere: :roll:

Now John is talking more sense with the sponsorship and stuff, good show man, good idea, not sure the extreme sports folks will really go for techno in a big way, big phuck it, that`s definitely worth a try.

I think the actual nature of the business needs to change as well.

CD or Digital files, either way, some form of encryption is needed there.

I`m looking into organising more Live gigs in non nightclub enviroments too. Getting the college and UNI crowd into it. But there will be no work for DJ`s within this venture, just live acts. :cry:

As for distribution going down. More quality control is needed really. Got to keep the standard up.

I think the vinyl argument is going to come to a head within the next year though.

anyhow john, I think you took too much of what I was saying far too personally. I was being generic in a lot of comments, such as the Dave Clarke thing, and it wasn`t directed at anyone specific, in fact I said WE as part of it, so it included me.

i no dirty we all on same team here, but there will still be no way i would give up my vynyl, ive waited years to be able to put my tracks on vynyl, wot your saying is probably true it just herts me and makes my stomach chern man. if i bloody have to i will try and find my own inventions, but mate i see a future of not cdjs man, yes for an extra use for performance mabey, but i want to see the same firing performance on turntables played and controled the same way but with a new material for hands on mixing.

1 theory ive thought of is ( + dont laugh at me anything is possible )

look at your sim card on mobile phone, see how it is lade out in form of a chip, mabey them grooves could also be developed into a circular disc, witch can carry multiple sound files, this also could be accompanied by special needles, with magnetic force keeping them held fast to the plate, or mabey a laser. the discs them selves could be made out of any old materials, even recycle old vynyl which is due for the dump or no longer wanted etc.
i no it could be done just takes somone with the right knolage to try.
im hearing you on the live thing dirty bass i also want to do live stuff when i experienced enough to do so, but your world seems arrogant towards dj`s, you say its not but your making out it is, there is no skill also in swithing knobs on cdjs to make mixing more easier, bollox to that, people want to see the dj flying man, so mabey we should look and study new ideas inventions ,not just follow the comersial industry like your doing, we need a product distributers can take up, if vynyl aint cool anymore lets give it a make over.

also distributers themselves need to become more carefull, look at prime for instence how many free records did they send out, my freind and old north colleage dj m zone is a hard trance hard style dj, he used to give me piles of records he dident want and it was always a big box off prime,(and quality techno to i might ad) how many more people did they send unwanted techno to. fools! anytime somone wants to send me records from abroad etc, i always offer to pay them at least the whole sale price and shipping cost, its coz im a gentleman with manners, they still dicline and send anway. how many of you beg labels for free records, well stop it.lets see sum strict ruling from distributers, i pay for my records and i rarely get promos now days, so i think here we can make a start of actually paying for it.

as far as my far out radical inventions i hope its a few years yet b4 i will feel the need to have to cum up with somthing. think ill av a word with father christmas. ;)

lets cut the bullshit now and try cum up with ideas for VYNYL sales to help our distributers, and keep people like lawri emersion and all the curve pressing family well and truly afloat. ;)

[MARKEG]

I just can't believe how this thread has gone. And I'm GOBSMAKED - no, in fact totally BEWILDERED as to why no-one picked up on its true meaning. Read Tioneb's post, and the Paul Edge article. In fact I could delete the whole rest of the pages here in between and finally we might have a good discussion. But seeing as though you've alll gone of this mad mission I'll say my thoughts...


Dirty Bass is SPOT ON. Vinyl is dying, we're all a bunch of junkies just grasping at straws. This forum is about finding the future, CD is NOT the the future either. MP3 is the latest technology. Interent what we have to look at. Understand.

I've read so much crap in these last 7 pages, I'm about to explode. Who cares about old fashioned ideals and the 'old' way of running the game. Sure we'll make it last as long as we can but, we're alll about to become lonely old men. We have to move on and find a solution.

READ PAUL EDGE'S ARTICLE AGAIN. PLEASE.