why are distributions keep going broke?

[Ritzi Lee]

Just when I think we had the worst,
the hurting keeps going on.
Now i'm hearing bad news from the German sellers that it's a matter of time before some distributions are going down again.

Some say the market is just overkilled with a lot of crap.
Some say there are too many small labels with music from unknown artists. And so you can think of a lot of reasons....

But i think it has totally nothing to do with the music.
I think it's a matter of doing marketing. How the system works now.
And ofcourse the state of our economy.

I mean; in the last 14 / 16 years there was a lot of techno.
And also from the little unknown people. And the music and / or quality was good. I think this isn't changed at all. People are still making quality stuff. But the people who deal with the system of selling records doesn't care for music. They just look at the sale sheets, and catagorise music in genres, and famous artists. And without listening they decide if they want to sell it or not...

We're still dealing with a system of 4 years ago from where it all went wrong!

My suggestion: Start all over again!
Just look back at how the people did it 12 / 14 years ago.

Objective or not?

[dirty_bass]

There`s simply not enough people buying records.
The rave generation is growing up, and turning into middle age wine bar lounge lizards who don`t rave any more.
We need to make the kids realise that the rebellion, punk attitude and alternative standpoint they perceive to be a part of the rock genre, is an actual reality in the world and music of techno.

[MARKEG]

i think you've got a massive point. loopy shit is just not selling. its time to re-evaluate and re-assess. mp3's/cdj's - they're all playing a massive part. maybe vinyl is finally on it's last legs - perhaps a few more years left and then that's it.

i just cant help but feel that the only place buzzin right now is the internet, but artists and labels are too slow to capitalise on it and find a way to make the money to keep their heads above water.

[Tony]

There`s simply not enough people buying records.
The rave generation is growing up, and turning into middle age wine bar lounge lizards who don`t rave any more.
We need to make the kids realise that the rebellion, punk attitude and alternative standpoint they perceive to be a part of the rock genre, is an actual reality in the world and music of techno.

couldnt agree more, but also, theres plenty of other electronic music out there for those who might have stopped the all nighter element of electronic culture, this is shown in the current rise of the more click oriented nights. i really think that not many people can be arsed to really hammer it out anymore, and when faced with the subjective strangeness of the more prevalent dance music genres, ie hard house/pop trance - people just feel totally disconnected from that and dont want to be a part of something that seems so alien and comical to them.

punk and rebellious attitudes from electronics will seep back through to the rock kids, slowly but surely. but the loop must die!

[Tony]

i just cant help but feel that the only place buzzin right now is the internet, but artists and labels are too slow to capitalise on it and find a way to make the money to keep their heads above water.

agreed, the established set up of label/distrib/record shop seems to be going out of the window. there are too many egos and people who'd sell their gran, or a record that took five mins to make, for a fast buck or with no real knowledge of the repercussions of their actions.
this is why i post my lists on forums, if people can see that i am passionate about what i stock, and not just getting in anything that might make that fast buck for me, and then see that theres a shed load of quality stuff thats on my catalogue, then it can only go to serve the customer, me and the labels. i think some cogs in the machine have forgotten what their task is and are making it worse for everyone by proxy.
we thought it (all the collapses) was all over, but its still evolving and repairing. the framework may have fallen down only to be rebuilt in the same manner, so it will happen all over again. god help us!

[Internal Error Records]

i believe a large part of the damage is caused by record shops not buying vinyl from distributors anymore but just posting up distro's new release sheets on their websites and ordering a piece of vinyl when a kids asks for it online.

i have found 14 record shops online 'stocking' my labels vinyl but only 3 actually have bought copies.

online record shops with 'immdiate inventory ordering systems' are what is killing distributors.

regardless of level of technology the techno industry is grassroots. technology cant change that. for distributors to survive they have to sell vinyl. than means stores have to buy it and place it on shelves and kids have to walk into the store and pick it off of teh shelves.

the internet is going to shut down all but one record shop. because in cyberspace you only need one.

[Internal Error Records]

[quote="dirty_bass"]There`s simply not enough people buying records.
The rave generation is growing up, and turning into middle age wine bar lounge lizards who don`t rave any more.

i have to say i dont think that is relevant. all too typical apocolyptic mentality.

rave originally sprang forth from nothing!

[Ritzi Lee]

regardless of level of technology the techno industry is grassroots. technology cant change that. for distributors to survive they have to sell vinyl. than means stores have to buy it and place it on shelves and kids have to walk into the store and pick it off of teh shelves.

In the old days it was really simple.
When you're a record store,
you had to be a member of the distribution.
One of the rules: You had to buy a minimum amount
each month of almost anything the distri had to offer.
Say each month a minimum sale of 500 dollars for each recordshop.

[schlongfingers]

Distributors int the traditional sense are being cut out of the loop because of the internet - no way around it I'm afraid aside from thinking out the box. Any label can sell direct to DJ's without the dist taking a cut.

[Tony]

Distributors int the traditional sense are being cut out of the loop because of the internet - no way around it I'm afraid aside from thinking out the box. Any label can sell direct to DJ's without the dist taking a cut.

agreed, but distributors could use the net more, for more information for the man on the street, and (horrible phrase coming) direct marketing. so long as they're not 'buy buy buy' and all semi-secretive about it, thenthe distributor could become an identity that you come to trust as to having the good shit you may be after. its the way i play it, i import lots of stuff and intend to quite chirpily promote it via the net, no harm.

i know whats meant by the listings being posted up, but it is a kind of streamline way of doing business. better to acquire a definite order or sell the promo to show it sells, than buy ten and be left with 9 after 6months, thats not good for business at all.

[FUSION]

There`s simply not enough people buying records.
The rave generation is growing up, and turning into middle age wine bar lounge lizards who don`t rave any more.
We need to make the kids realise that the rebellion, punk attitude and alternative standpoint they perceive to be a part of the rock genre, is an actual reality in the world and music of techno.

WORD, its a natural progression though dirty give them rock kid`s anouther year or so and there tastes will progress, basicly when they feel board or a bit old at the rock nights they going to week in week out they will try something different, it is after all the same energy

[FUSION]

thats what happened to me anyway

[Tony]

and OH SO MANY of us ;)

yet still, some saddos still go to the same clubs and dance to the same tracks in the rock realm. theres no getting through to those people.

[FUSION]

yeah but you like what you like and some people are more adverse to change than others, i mean dont get me wrong i do still go to rock clubs sometimes for novelty value (and the women) and if im gunna listen to a cd at home it would more likely be tool or alice in chains or sepultura than techno (save that for the dex) so im not slagging the sceane. I really do think that more and more people are realising the feeling you get off music is whats important and some thing that goes BANG BANG BANG and something that goes ROOOOAAAAAAAARRRRR is in fact alot more similar than you at first thought. this will surely rub off more and more on the techno sceane as time goes by

[Jimfish]

I think one of the biggest killers of things is the disproportionate ratio of labels to punters.
Dont get me wrong - up to a point the choice of tonnes of labels is great, but there is too much now, it has gone too far.
There are no profit margins now, and there need to be profit margins to make it work. People need money for heaps of reasons i shouldnt have to go into.. right now there is no money.
In my opinion every new label that starts is another nail in the scenes coffin.

[Jimfish]

I do think things have swung into more live music realms at the moment but eventually it will start to swing back.. a few years ago there was no good rock or indie music about but i think there is a lot of good stuff now.
Thier scene got shit so they had to pull somthing out of the bag - which they did, and now its polularity has undergone a huge rejuvination.
According to the general pattern i notice in fashions and tastes i think dance/electonic music will hit a low and then pull somthing out of the bag itself and swing back after a few years... that is if its not too late by then and everyones making thier own music on some ultra high tech one-button-hits-the-spot ejay garage band type thing..

[Tony]

I think one of the biggest killers of things is the disproportionate ratio of labels to punters.
Dont get me wrong - up to a point the choice of tonnes of labels is great, but there is too much now, it has gone too far.
There are no profit margins now, and there need to be profit margins to make it work. People need money for heaps of reasons i shouldnt have to go into.. right now there is no money.
In my opinion every new label that starts is another nail in the scenes coffin.

yup! as much as i'd wish everyone in the universe to be creative, there are just TOO MANY records coming out. most shops i call are already swamped with releases, and thats such a shame. some shops literally have to say no, even though my exclusives are from prominant labels around europe, because they have many other techno companies looking after their own labels. its a shame that they'd close the door to the extensive amount i can offer them, but it does seem like there too many labels, a mild amount of punters, lots of wannabe artsits and djs, but not actually many people buying vinyl.

margins, curse those margins. i think most people would be shocked if they knew the pence that was made on each record. and though we can be gracious and say 'i'm not in it for the money', sorry but 'i'd still like to eat please' :cry:

[Jimfish]

exactly, we still need some dollar for all these fancy pants gadjets to make the music in the first place.. let alone so we can get on with making good music instead of beating back the bailiffs from the door..

[Heroes]

Yes you got it totally right Jim, too many people making average stuff on a 400 quid dell computer and fruity loops. Also i have to put a lot of blame on the distributors because they will take a 400-500 selling label and make a quid on each copy, which in most cases is more than the label. What frustrates me is they cant see that they are all fuelling the rot of vinyl, I know from owning a shop you try to have as broad a selection as possible, something has to give though, Instead of ordering 25 of something you take 10, dosnt take long for a label to see its sales dip.............

[fatcollective]

i have metioned before that i think the scene is having a bit of a dip...like the trend is waring..after all it has had a good 10 years...hopefully things will get better...its just a big fingers crossed for me...i hate the idea of everything going under...i have put alot of my money and time and LIFE into starting a label and now it seems i may be too late to actually see it progress...its quite sad...lets just hope things get better :?: