beginners guide to speekers

[MangaFish]

basically i know naff all about speekers (apart from how to plug them into the amp ;) )

i know i need new speekers (and i know i have a budget of between £100 and £200). basically i need to know what all the jargon means. anyone out there able to explain what the different specs mean and how it impacts on performance? (all i know is watts <> loudness )

[JohnnyDigital]

basically i know naff all about speekers (apart from how to plug them into the amp ;) )

NOOOOOO!!!! don't plug them there... ;)

i know i need new speekers (and i know i have a budget of between £100 and £200). basically i need to know what all the jargon means. anyone out there able to explain what the different specs mean and how it impacts on performance? (all i know is watts <> loudness )

350€ for alesis mk2... i think it's the better for you're budget... check also tannoy reveal and event tr5


try to get the biggest woofer you can pack in your house/studio

bigger woofers give better bass response but may cause a lot of bass reverbation if your studio is small


avoid bass reflex thingys because they lously enhancer parts of your sound and can give a wrong illusion of how you're mix really sounds

[MangaFish]

cheers dude, but what does all the jargon mean in speeker spec.s

i dont want to overload my amp you see

[Evil G]

it might be a bit counter intuitive, but if for whatever reason you can't match your amp and speakers perfectly, it's better to have a higher powered amp into less capable speakers than a less powerful amp into more capable speakers.

the reason is that with good speakers and a crappy amp, it's too easy to turn the amp way up. if you start clipping the amp, you can still destroy the speakers even at a power rating they are supposed to be able to handle.

if you have a strong amp into weaker speakers, you can give them a nice clean signal all the way up to what they can handle.

that being said, it's still best to match them if you can. amp makers will use confusing language when they provide their power rating (to give the most favourable description), so be careful to check whether they are talking watts per channel, or in bridged mono, etc, and at what resistance (ohms). generally speaking, lower resistance means louder, but also more noise, and higher resistance speakers are quieter, but tighter.

[MangaFish]

what if i want louder and cleaner? whats sort of rating / comprimise would i be looking for?

[rs1800]

Just a quck q please

when people talk about a 10k rig, are they talking

a) peak power rating or rms ?

b) of the speaker handling or max amp output

c) something totaly different

cheers

[Evil G]

what if i want louder and cleaner? whats sort of rating / comprimise would i be looking for?

4 or 8 ohms is usually the middle ground.

[Evil G]

Just a quck q please

when people talk about a 10k rig, are they talking

a) peak power rating or rms ?

b) of the speaker handling or max amp output

c) something totaly different

cheers

usually amp output. with pro gear there is less talk about peak vs rms because they are designed to be able to deliver peak output continuously, unlike a home stereo which uses capacitors to save up power to be released in short bursts (effectively increasing it's peak output, but not it's continuous output).

[rs1800]

with pro gear there is less talk about peak vs rms because they are designed to be able to deliver peak output continuously, unlike a home stereo which uses capacitors to save up power to be released in short bursts (effectively increasing it's peak output, but not it's continuous output).

I doubt that m8, it would defy the laws of physics.

rms (aaverage music power) is always lower than peak power but I just wondered whats quoted by the rigs.

cheers

[Evil G]

rms (aaverage music power) is always lower than peak power but I just wondered whats quoted by the rigs.

cheers

you are right about loudness within the music. home amps take advantage of the fact you point out, and during quieter parts of the music, they "save up" power to be released during the peaks. but pro amps don't do that, as it is unreliable. i'm sure we've all heard the sound of a home amp "breaking up" when turned too loud. this is because it isn't given the time to charge up the capacitors between peaks. a pro amp can deliver what is says it can, without using any capacitor tricks.

[rs1800]

your wrong there m8

rms power is always lower than peak power in any ac signal.

See

http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/RMS.html

and

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_1/3.html

For example, in a pure sine wave (which music i'snt so is hard to calculate exactly but is similar) the rms value is always 0.707 of the peak power irrespective of the amp you are using.

Ive just had a look at the Mackie site and they quote rms which is a good thing and has answered my original question. I dont know if all manfs quote rms as in the cheaper home/car markets some of them quote peak powers to make themselves look a better spec than they are.

http://www.mackie.com/pdf/m1400_ss.pdf

cheers

[Jack]

Just a quck q please

when people talk about a 10k rig, are they talking

a) peak power rating or rms ?

b) of the speaker handling or max amp output

c) something totaly different redface.gif

cheers

They should really be talking about the size of the amplifiers which are powering the speakers. If you have 10k of speakers but 5k of amps its only a 5k rig.

You should really have bigger amps than your speakers 2 as easy to pop speakers by underpowering them but clipping your amps.
rms is 0.707 and will be lower than peak.
Rms is best test with white noise over a certain time period, say 100 hours. then Spl @ 1m = ? Rms over 100 hours.
SPL spound pressure level

[rs1800]

cheers for info jack

I agree with you about having a higher power amp than the speakers to avoid clipping but if a rig has 10k of amps but only 5k of speakers do they still claim a 10k rig?

[Jack]

They could claim to be what they think sounds best. lol
But at the end of the day u can only work as hard as the weakest component.
I would go more amp power as thats what creates the power.
But to make it more confusing, amplifiers can give more power if run with multiple speakers as this lowers the ohm rating.


1 speaker 8ohm usually.
2 in row 4 ohm
3 in row 2.6ohm
4 in row 2 ohm
Output Power both channels driven (rms)

For example (void acoustics amplifiers ratings at different ohms.

Infinite 8 8ohm=2 x 1300 4ohm=2 x 2400 2ohm=2 x 3700 4ohm bridged=1 x 7400

Hope that helps.

But It may make things more confusing.

[rs1800]

I do understand all that, the power ratings at different speaker impedances would be quoted in the amp specs anyway.

My question all along has simply been what figure do the rigs generaly quote?

I wasnt sure if amp manf quote rms or peak (although I now think its rms)

and also wether the rigs quote the total power they have or the actual level they run at.

or just the highest figure they can get away with as there must be a bit of "whose got the most powerful rig" competition ?

[Jack]

you should quote rms rating of your ampifiers combined.
ie 1 amps 3k the other 2k.
you got a 5k rig.
peak is rubbish dodgy info sometimes used to trick people into thinking they have more power than they really have.
peak is burst of power but not usefull for playing music over time so irelevent

[rs1800]

peak is rubbish dodgy info sometimes used to trick people into thinking they have more power than they really have.
peak is burst of power but not usefull for playing music over time so irelevent

I totally agree m8.

This is why I asked my original question, as in the car audio market most manufacturers (exept the best ones) all quote peak to make there products look better than they are.

Thats what I was trying to find out ie. does this happen with rigs.

cheers for info m8