To the collective artists known as Skulltunes :

[Underground Alliance]

We realize the thread concerning your label does not include at any point an admission of your wrong doing nor did you care to apologize to the board members who you've ripped off. We find this behavior offensive deplorable and beyond everything disrespectful. We demand a public apology to board member sven wittekind.

[gunjack]

good point, and to add, this is no longer about sven or the other folks who have been ripped off, this is about the principle of the thing. YOU FOLKS ARE TRYING TO **** HARDWORKING ARTISTS. if we, as a community of artists, lose our perspective of what is and isn't acceptable conduct in this industry, then we might as well go and make some eurobeat..... then maybe at least we could make alot of cash and be rock stars.


YOU PPL GOT CAUGHT cheating red handed. the very LEAST you could do would be to take responsibility for your own actions. do you even have enough balls to do that?!

[MARKEG]

mmm... i've slept on this after the statement by greg silver and deaf has got a point. i know the fight seems to be over between skulltunes and sven (phew!!!!) but for the sake of many board members who care strongly about this and see it as a huge moral issue, i do think a discussion of the samples that seem to have been used and why is essential and would speak absolute volumes here. to be honest, it's the original reason why i wanted you guys to reply. let's sort this out and we all can finally get this issue cleaned up.

mike - did you sample loops that seem to be taken from over138 and psycho shoxx highball01? And also a loop from Compound 14? And a vocal directly from Patrick Skoog's Submissions 3 (it's exactly the same vocal). And a Speedy J loop. What's the explaination for each of these?

greg - deja vu 04 by boris s + greg silver seems to have a loop taken from over138 sven wittekind - zombie hohcaust. How do you explain this?

if you do sample directly from other people's records, why? do you see anything wrong with it?

guys you have to clear this up. i've just checked and i've already got 8 pm's in my inbox regarding this issue and i think people really want to know the answers to this. great, the fighting is over, but let's get back to the original and most important issue.

and hey ppl. let's try to have a discussion here - not a fight eh?

[gunjack]

yeah man, just because everybody was persuaded to shut up about this issue doesnt mean it has gone away.....

also my brother cris varela appears to have been the victim of your theft on skt 003.... i will see him on friday for dinner before liquid room and ask him what he feels.

[MikeDust]

Hello Mark and all the others!

No Mark, i did not sample anything from Wittekind, nor did i sample from Compound or Skoog. But i did sample from Speedy J's "Loudboxer" Locked-Grooves Vinyl. Why i did this? It sounded gr8 together with my stuff in the track. So i did use a Sample. Btw: Speedy has got no Problem with it, he allowed it. It was written on his Record. If you use any Sample, please be so nice and send me one Record. I sent him one, and i never heard of him. All the other Loops were taken directly from one of my ton's of Sample CD's or have been ****in created by myself!

I only release Stuff as Mike Dust on Skull Tunes, i have nothen to do with all the other Projects.

Okay, this was my Statement. I hope it cleares up sumpin' ?

BTW: Get the following Sample CD's - XXLarge No Kick Vol. 1 & 2 - There are only Percussion-Drum-Grooves w/o kicks. Many Producers use it, so u can't always say this loop or that loop was stolen from this or that record. Ya understand what i'm trying to say?

Mike

[gunjack]

mike - did you sample loops that seem to be taken from over138 and psycho shoxx highball01? And also a loop from Compound 14? And a vocal directly from Patrick Skoog's Submissions 3 (it's exactly the same vocal). What's the explaination for each of these?

[gunjack]

so shall we ask:


@pat skoog: where does the vocal on submissions 003 originate? sample cd?

@Glenn Wilson: did you use these same sample cds on the record in question or have you been jacked?


still waiting to hear about varela and skt003.

[MikeDust]

Please Explain which Vocal you mean????

Here are the Vocals i used in MY RECORDS on SKT

SKT 001 - Bass
Vocal "Bass" from Fruity Loops

SKT 004 - Sawtooth Massacre
-Scratching in Sawtooth Massacre taken from Master Bits "Vinyl Attack"
-The short Screaming taken from "TechnoTranceEssentials" by Ueberschall
-Vocal "This is our Future" taken from Best Service "Vocal Pearls"
-Vocal on the B2 taken from Vocal Pearls too

Go to a Music Store near you, listen to the Sample CD there, if you won't believe me, i'm honest.

Mike

[gunjack]

so are the minutes you save by using pre-fab loops worth the hours of explaining after the fact?

[Buttman]

Is it just me who finds it boring to make music with ready made samples?
I see nothing wrong in sampling.. I just can not see why anyone would like to work with it.

[MARKEG]

Deaf - I have these CD's and Mike is spot on with what he's said and where his samples have come from. Please calm down mate. He's obviously trying to be as open as possible and you're being really quick to try to knock him down.

At the end of the day alot of people are using sample CD's at the moment. Chrissi and I use them. But don't use them 'raw'. We'll mangle them slightly before adding them to our 'library' of loops. I think if you don't do this, things can slip though and you can be left with a situation like this where people accuse you of stealing.

I think this is proving that as artists who really care about the music we have to look deeper. We have to search harder than ever before. This issue has brought up the subject of using sample CD's within techno in a negative light - scary seeing as though 90% of hard techno aritsts use them (I think alot of you don't actually realise how many artists work like this now).

Thanks Mike for what you've said. You didn't have to say it and I'm really pleased you've come into our community and laid your cards directly on the table. Deaf - find out about your bro's loops and let's clear this up with Mike once and for all.

[MikeDust]

well def, i buy the sample cd's for big money to use them in productions, not to abuse them as table mat for my coffee cup

btw: varela uses the loops from techno trance essentials too :o

hell, there are even the loops from the famous "trommelmaschine" and "sunglasses at night" liebing remix on that sampling cd... i know what would happen if i would use them in a production... all people where yellin' at me "loopstealer" and so on... even if they are free for licence

Mike

[gunjack]

hmmm. i appreciate the fact that mike has explained his source material on such a public forum......

this whole thing stinks though. i dunno, it just smells baaaad.


DJ Amok is one of our artists, i know he has a temper and flies off the handle a bit quick, but he is part of our crew, so you boys lay off him alright? i have heard alot of gossip coming back round about all of this from MANY sources and i would not like to hear any more. i will tell him to cool out so you boys do the same for now ok?


gunjack

[death on a stick]

So none of the artists in question can be bothered to make their own music without Ikea style ready made parts? I think all sides should be a bit embarrassed about this one, if that's the case. If the samples in question came from a sample CD, did it not occur to the people accusing others of plagiarism that they could have come from the same source.

IF this is the case, you should maybe try making something original for a change. I'm all for sampling as I said in another thread, I've sampled others and been sampled myself, but to just stick a few ready made loops over a kick is just damned lazy - and from the clips I downloaded last night, result in very poor quality music that would be better left in the bedroom for listening to when you get home from the pub. Why waste vinyl on that stuff?

[boris s]

that's right mike!

i use the same sample cd. we have round about 60 gig's of samples in our studio. and about over 90 sample cds! vocal pearls, dance mega drums, techno trance essentials (which contains lots of well known samples!! eg. used by azzido da bass, emanuel top and so on...)

the loops in my productions are definitely not ripped from any record!!

i use most one cool loop, and the rest of percussions i do myself and mangle it with lots of fx's etc.

boris

[MARKEG]

boris/mike, i think that's the problem. you're using 'one cool loop'. and you're making that loop very, very prominant in your mix. problem is - other artists are doing the same. which leads to people thinking it's nicked. it seems like you've stolen it, when in fact you haven't - you've just paid damn good money for a sample cd that some other artist has paid damn good money for too.

look. i'm not a bloody expert at this techno making business but i have been doing it for years and i have been through these exact problem myself. it just means working that little bit harder to source/categorise your loops. sure use a sample cd, but find a plug in or plugin chain that then becomes 'your sound' to stick over the top of the loops. do this in a prog like acid - then export each loop as a seperate file and put into organised folders. then only use these loops! that way you'll NEVER have the same loop as someone else on your tracks.

alternatively use a program like recycle to chop them up a bit.

just a little more time and effort will really mean issues like this dont arise again.

wow.. it seems like we're actually getting somewhere useful now dont you think!?!!

[boris s]

yes mark... very usefull! :D

recycle i got 4 weeks ago... from this time on every loop is use is cutted by recycle and put together in another order... so, i hope no one thinks that i steal loops again... *g* and plugins to make the loops become "my sound" i have used in my new productions too. for example the skull tunes 6. the new skull tunes 9 and 10. logic has damn good plugins to do that...

boris

ps.: sorry for my bad english... *g*

[death on a stick]

I don't get it...why not just make your own music??? Why buy sample CDs in order to avoid having to do anyhting original? It's so lazy!!! And it comes out through the music too, can't you hear how cheap it sounds?? Are you afraid that if you tried to actually work at music you'll find you have no talent for it? Hard techno, even loopy hard techno, doesn't have to be rubbish, it can be very good indeed, but from the sounds of it most of the artists here would prefer to have someone else make their music for them. I can't believe people are actually going to all the effort of releasing records with this stuff on it, how can you live with yourselves? Don't you feel cheap?

[gunjack]

that post should be bronzed.

[MARKEG]

not at all. there's no way in this world you going to sit and tell me that working with sample cd's and loops is cheap. if done the right way, it is just a creative as midi. i strongly believe this. in fact i personally often find it more creative and productive.

i spend day after day preparing loops - mashing up different loops into different folders. categorising. eqing. then using them in tracks.

it's a different way of working but to me it's the same as taking a sine wave in midi (that someone else has provided for you) and making your own sound out of it. this way you take a loop from a sampled cd, from rebirth, from anything - and lovingly craft it beyond all recognition into your own loop.

the only difference is your track start to sound more full because there's more going on. this is the key to our sound and most of the hard techno producers out there.

fair enough, you work with midi. do things your own way. but don't tell me that i'm not creative because i'm doing things to a different way that the 'standard' way of making music.

there's a line here. just the same as there's a line with using presets on keyboard and making your own sounds. as long as you know what line is, there's nothing wrong with using loops.

ok rant over..

(sorry death )