Techno, a new movement.

[dirty_bass]

With all the arguments over styles and stuff recently, I`ve come to see things in a new light.

There seems to be a split in techno, in terms of attitude.

A lot of people, want to take techno into an artistic journey, and more and more we are seeing artists take a more cerebral and "artistic approach" I guess to expand and explor their own abilities as well as those of the music.

And the other faction, just want to make music for parties, to entertain, as it were, which in itself has an innocent allure, and not to necessarily push the music or make some artistic statement or journey.

I`m not arguing for or against either, as they both serve a purpose.

But I am starting to think maybe this is the cause of a lot of debate.

And if so, it`s almost as if a new genre is emerging out of techno, but it`s still very much embryonic, and maybe has some of the form of what it was.

I`m not sure where I`m going with this.

So I`ll stop for the moment, to think about it.

[holotropik]

Hey DB,

I think i know what you are alluding to here. I have found much pressure to produce something that is more "user-friendly" and less out-right party bangin'. I get half the people telling me I should do some more recognisable stuff that sounds like everything else (ie: commercially viable) and the other half saying go into cerebral land and make stuff that does your head in, is fresh & not the same as everything else.

??!! eeek. Makes me very confused and its hard to get a lock onto a tune when you are in two minds.

I like to go into unchartered territory myself, but, that is not very saleable these dayz as most people dont like it or fail to understand it. Well, thats how it is here in Australia anyway (even though Techno is a global market its still small fry compared to more commercial genres).

A funny example to share is when I was recently driving in the car with my Brother who listens to commercial stuff. He was listening to Fat Boy Slim (of all things). This particular track (cant remember the name) but it was one of my bros' favourites. Upon listening I said to him i like the trumpet sample in it.....he said "what trumpet sample"?? I mentioned 2 other sounds that made it a catchy funky beat and he didnt notice them either.

Thats my point. How would cerebral "out-there" techno get across to most people? It doesnt and wont for a very long time.

[dirty_bass]

you can still be musical and experiment, or at least break the tight confines of techno, yet still have music that is listenable for joe average.
In some ways, certain types of techno still assume that people will be on drugs when they listen to it, and are almost not musical, more purely percussive.

[The Overfiend]

I don't hear music the right way when I am on drugs to be honest.
I actually feel better, I'm almost a month in sobriety.

[OriginalTechnobastard]

Hmmm. Maybe its been done before but one of the things I would like to see in Techno is removal of hand claps and high hats with an actual drummer or other instruments used alongside bass lines and synths. Maybe make a techno track by composing different elements separately, than slowly building layers as a whole(Playing a guitar solo, using these riffs later on, seeing how other elements inspire you). Or artist feeding off each others music and making more collabrations. I don't want total removal of high hats and clappers of course but it would be nice to see a little bit more live instruments used and different ideas throwing in. I think maybe we need more live artist in Techno but most of the time these fools only want to imitate Kraftwerk and don't have any idea of all the new toys we got :lol: I'm not talking about rock music with cowbells but techno with more live feel. Someone was talking about half engineer/ musician techno artist. Got a check this out even though it sounds bit pretentious. Anyway did anyone invent a new drum machine or synth here?

[FILTERZ]

i stopped making techno a long time ago , now i just make music that has techno as one of its influences .

[FILTERZ]

soory was ghonna elaborate more but ............................the man is looking over my shoulder ;) add more later

[SlavikSvensk]

With all the arguments over styles and stuff recently, I`ve come to see things in a new light.

There seems to be a split in techno, in terms of attitude.

A lot of people, want to take techno into an artistic journey, and more and more we are seeing artists take a more cerebral and "artistic approach" I guess to expand and explor their own abilities as well as those of the music.

And the other faction, just want to make music for parties, to entertain, as it were, which in itself has an innocent allure, and not to necessarily push the music or make some artistic statement or journey.

I`m not arguing for or against either, as they both serve a purpose.

But I am starting to think maybe this is the cause of a lot of debate.

And if so, it`s almost as if a new genre is emerging out of techno, but it`s still very much embryonic, and maybe has some of the form of what it was.

I`m not sure where I`m going with this.

So I`ll stop for the moment, to think about it.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

well said...and i do like proper hard techno done right, but other than that, i'm on the "new techno" side...though for me that means in part capturing what i feel has been lost in recent years...

[dan the acid man]

i like both of these scenes then, i love hearing good party, made for the floor material, but i also love listening to experimental, or more emotional pieces of work.

i suppose this comes from how i got into techno, i started off listening to plastikman and progressed into the party sound of london techno.

now when i finally sit down and start getting into writing again (im starting this weekend), im hoping i can delve into both of these areas.

well thats the plan anyway

[fatcollective]

With all the arguments over styles and stuff recently, I`ve come to see things in a new light.

There seems to be a split in techno, in terms of attitude.

A lot of people, want to take techno into an artistic journey, and more and more we are seeing artists take a more cerebral and "artistic approach" I guess to expand and explor their own abilities as well as those of the music.

And the other faction, just want to make music for parties, to entertain, as it were, which in itself has an innocent allure, and not to necessarily push the music or make some artistic statement or journey.

I`m not arguing for or against either, as they both serve a purpose.

But I am starting to think maybe this is the cause of a lot of debate.

And if so, it`s almost as if a new genre is emerging out of techno, but it`s still very much embryonic, and maybe has some of the form of what it was.

I`m not sure where I`m going with this.

So I`ll stop for the moment, to think about it.

techno music is made for people to dance to!

what if the track is really muiscally produced but doesnt make people dance? is this still a good track?

[loopdon]

I don't hear music the right way when I am on drugs to be honest.
I actually feel better, I'm almost a month in sobriety.

homie, u mean smoking as well? respect :clap:

[acidsaturation]

I kind of see two things in techno.

I love the music and want to see boundaries pushed there to be the most headwarping, emotion mangling, power and wierdness around. I do agree on the idea of more live instruments, maybe live playing of synths, definately the idea of live drums etc. And also on really pushing what can't be done live - that's what the technology's for.

Some "joe averages" will be able to appreciate something musically amazing even if they don't quite get it. Some people (maybe like holotropik's mate) will not see the genius in something but like it 'cos it sounds good. Some people of course won't see any value in anything they don't know or hear already and will think we're all wierd kind of beard-stroking-noodling-"oh-wow-the-reverb-on-that-blip-is-sublime"-types for pushing boundaries. I don't really care about that side.

Sometimes I try to push boundaries and experiment with my tunes, sometimes I write a tune I know other people will like - I made a cheesy as hell nine inch nails remix type tune for someone special and she loved it which gave me big satisfaction, and sometimes I'll just write something straight up, maybe staid and all heard before that I'd love to hear on the dance floor when I'm so f*cked that I just want something I can recognise.

I think it's a shame that sometimes people seem to act like there's not room for all of these in the "scene".


In a way though what has always been more important is that techno is - as the title of this post, (whether that was the context offered or not)- a movement. For me it's a big F U C K YOU to the people who would love to control the music we listen to, the places we party, the drugs we take or choose not to. Techno (or much of it) was always DIY. It's spread into the mainstream now and I'm not going to get into the whole "underground" debate again 'cos I don't care and can't be arsed with where the boundary between mainstream and underground is and who's sold out and all that bollox, but what's most important to me is that when the licensing laws say "oh no you can't do that here at this time in the morning", when the club you've used for years suddenly gets taken over and says "we don't have techno 'cos no-one buys beer" we just move into a warehouse, a field, even the park in Leeds and say "F U C K YOU we're still gonna party". Even 20 people in an old trade warehouse in the arse end of Leeds 6 the other week means more to me than arguing whether the music's gone stale.

I just :love: techno.

[Fordy]

Definately want to see more live elements added to techno. The idea of live techno would be amazing, the possibilties and doors opened with it would be really interesting. Id love to see a side of techno branch off like this.

Techno to me is going in quite a few different directions and im into alot of the sides to it, but at the same time I listen to alot of tunes coming out and they are doing nothing for me atall atm. It just seems to be lacking originality and alot of stuff has become stale. I dont know what im looking for, but right now I cant find it.

You have the artistic, experimental side which I love and want to see producers push furthur with it but never forget what this music is about, the party, going to a club and dancing your ass off to awesome club music.

But the idea I really want to see evolve is the live side of it. I think the likes of Vitalic, The Hacker & Carretta are heading in the right direction with the electro/trashy punk like stuff, it has the attitude I want to hear. I know some people may turn their noses up at this but still. With more added live elements, this will be a style to blow up big if its not going to already.

I want to see this grow, I want live punk like techno bands, using all technology has to offer, creating immense, creative, boundary pushing music whilst having a voice and more importantly a face.

The faceless dance white label record thing has been done, people have got bored of it, time to move on.

Dance music seriously lacks proper bands, especially techno just something personally I want to see more of because day by day im getting more into punk/electro/live band stuff.

[Mirsha]

I think techno si going all over the place, and who really gives a shit as long as you can find what you are looking for?

I know too many people that will dismiss most things under 145bpm which doesn't conform to a 4/4 basslines, people who will diss Subhead, people who don't get Jerome Hill, people who complain music is too fast or isn't hard enough

**** them all really. Sorry my chums but each of us has our own sound we like. We like it. Other people don't. We could have a general election about it but it would all be a bit tedious wouldn't it?

I find in the techno society above all others we seek out our secret desire and don't put up with shit. **** what other people are doing but as long as we can find enough of that filthy shit we want we'll be happily found with Cheshire grins on our faces in our local haunts scaring the shit out of people who don't really know whats going on.

[SlavikSvensk]

Hmmm. Maybe its been done before but one of the things I would like to see in Techno is removal of hand claps and high hats...

even though we disagree most of the time, i have to say...i think that's an excellent idea. producers need to be willing to not rely on what they think tracks "need"

[holotropik]

I like what you had to say Fordy. I concur & will expand on this.

Techno is faceless. There are DJs who play it, yes. But a vast majority of people are getting bored of this. They want to see an artist PLAY it to them, they want to put a face to the sound they love.

When the DJ first came into the public eye it was great. They brought some great new sounds and vibes to many. Many of these people thought (and some still do) that the DJ made that music he was playing, somehow. Now that most people are aware of what the DJ does its all a bit boring to them - there is no personality behind the music just a strange unknown producer no one ever sees.

Live techno IS fast becoming important to the punters. Even people who know nothing of techno are surprized by the lack of the artist element in the presentation of the music. The artist is the key to the evolution of this music. The DJ is simply the deliverer of the goods - not the creator. Some DJs do both (but not very well and thats why you have too many hand-claps and high hats or similar sounding tunes).

[dirty_bass]

With all the arguments over styles and stuff recently, I`ve come to see things in a new light.

There seems to be a split in techno, in terms of attitude.

A lot of people, want to take techno into an artistic journey, and more and more we are seeing artists take a more cerebral and "artistic approach" I guess to expand and explor their own abilities as well as those of the music.

And the other faction, just want to make music for parties, to entertain, as it were, which in itself has an innocent allure, and not to necessarily push the music or make some artistic statement or journey.

I`m not arguing for or against either, as they both serve a purpose.

But I am starting to think maybe this is the cause of a lot of debate.

And if so, it`s almost as if a new genre is emerging out of techno, but it`s still very much embryonic, and maybe has some of the form of what it was.

I`m not sure where I`m going with this.

So I`ll stop for the moment, to think about it.

techno music is made for people to dance to!

what if the track is really muiscally produced but doesnt make people dance? is this still a good track?

That`s where you are wrong.
Techno has no limits, and to say it has to be dance music, places walls around it.
What I`m talking about is, that there seems to be a split, between techno, that uses more obvious hooks and grooves, that we all know work. There are several types of beat within the 4x4 that occur again and again.
And techno that is more of an exploration of music, and almost, the dance factor is accidental.

[dirty_bass]

I`m not sure what my point in this thread was to be honest. So here are some further thoughts.

They just are my thoughts and opinions, so please don`t jump up and down about them.


To me, techno was and should be a music that stood on the edge of commercialism, sticking fingers up to mediocrity and predictability.
Kind of acting as the leading edge of future music.

Certain modes and types of techno, have become very predictable and very unadventurous, using the same hooks and tricks again and again. The excuse used by a lot of people is "yeah, well, it rocks the crowd though"
Now when I hear this, I just think - Well, yeah, but so does Britney, and so does a lot of pop music. Using certain predictable hooks and tried and tested tricks again and again.
So in a way, I find it hard to define the difference, when a statement like that is made. The only way you can judge it using those parameters, is by asking which rocks more people?
Well, britney does. She rocks to bigger crowds than any techno bod.

the point being that when the music just becomes about crowd pleasing, or who can get the most bodies jumping, or shift the most units, then it`s no better than the music it stands against.

Personally it`s a dilema as I wanna make people dance, but at the same time, approaching the creation of a tune within a dance music context, instantly places constraints on it. And to me, music that is constrained, has no future.

I`m not really sure of the point I am making here either, these are just more of my daily thoughts.

It`s a difficult subject to take in, because techno is such a subjective term. I was speaking to people today from my girlfriends work, and they were asking about my music, and as soon as I mentioned techno, then 2Unlimited were mentioned, or doof doof doof doof
So it means different things to different people.

I guess I`m just really itching to explore the limitations of the music, and myself, and these kind of thoughts and questions are just a part of the process.

[fatcollective]

Fair play Steve, you have very high standards and this is good. But at the end of the day techno music is made to rock the crowd, no matter how musical the tune is, if it don’t rock the crowd….why will djs buy the record?

Producers make predictable music because they know it works and this is important ...pushing musical boundaries will happen and certain producers are constantly doing this and others will follow no doubt. But really our music (techno) will slowly progress as time goes by. Go back 10 years, our music has changed, so many people are at it these days and so many people are trying to be different. It just takes time for people to adjust to newer sound...the people that judge our music are the clubbers, the ones that dance to our music, live our music and buy our music...everything will progress and I suppose its down to artists like yourself, Dave the drummer, cave, etc...who are really pushing newer sounds out there and other producers will follow the new trend and this way techno will evolve in its own time. Sorry to ramble on but really, I think the techno of today is as good as it has ever been and it’s getting better everyday ;)

and btw..who gives a **** about britney... :lol:

[Fordy]

Subjects like this are always so hard, because being honest techno, what techno is/wants to/should be completely confuses me, same with all electronic music, its out of control because the ways in which it can go are limitless. This where the faceless subgenre's, artists and sounds come in, its hard to identify with things and it becomes really annoying. Its a double edged sword, the thing that makes electronic music so great ie being able to constantly change and evolve is the thing that holds it back.

But the misunderstanding of techno really gets to me, I want more people to understand and enjoy it. Other forms of dance music are purely made to make people dance, pure club/party music. Techno can do the same but it a completely different way, its more of a journey of emotion that a good dj will suck you in and take you with their sounds. Techno can be more than just dance music though imo, its sonic art but with that it brings pretentiousness and it also holds the music back so much because so many fans and producers are stuck on the past ideas of detroit.

Its confusing, techno can be the best club music in the world but because its more than that is what attracts people to techno in the first place imo.