The Old Techno Guys - Hmmm - Are They Loosing It???

[MARKEG]

I'm just feeling this recently. Techno has always been about all the obvious guns. The Dave Clarke's, the Jeff Mills, etc etc. Well, I can help but feeling there's a whole new generation coming up, the Wittekinds, the Amok's, TBH alot of ppl that post here on the forum, especially in the production forum section. And this feeling is more powerful than anything I've ever witnessed before.

Do you think that the big guys are just loosing it on the dancefloor? Are they not seeing what is making ppl go nuts?

You know, I played some Ben Sims to 10,000 ppl recently as I was building my set in Eastern Europe, everyone was just chilled, and then BOOM I played some Eric Sneo and christ, the whole party went off (Sorry Ben, that's the way I felt and it's my opinion eh ;)). I love Sims, I love Mills, but to the next gen, I feel the whole old techno sound is just nostalga. The kids ie the future, just don't want this.

And come on, was techno not all about the future??!!!!

Gimme your thoughts..

[Sunil]

I'm just feeling this recently. Techno has always been about all the obvious guns. The Dave Clarke's, the Jeff Mills, etc etc. Well, I can help but feeling there's a whole new generation coming up, the Wittekinds, the Amok's, TBH alot of ppl that post here on the forum, especially in the production forum section. And this feeling is more powerful than anything I've ever witnessed before.

Do you think that the big guys are just loosing it on the dancefloor? Are they not seeing what is making ppl go nuts?

You know, I played some Ben Sims to 10,000 ppl recently as I was building my set in Eastern Europe, everyone was just chilled, and then BOOM I played some Eric Sneo and christ, the whole party went off. I love Sims, I love Mills, but the next gen don't want this.

And come on, was techno not all about the future??!!!!

Gimme your thoughts..

I guess people have been conditioned to a new type of 'hard' techno... Mills, Sims whoever records were really "banging" a few years ago, but it's been taken to another level in many ways, people are now expecting that extra sucker punch that they know is out there.

[Sunil]

As for losing it? Hmm, maybe running out of ideas alright, it's hard to keep it on the boil for so many years... I don't hold it against them though, thir job has been done in many ways.. if they have anything new to add then great, it's a bonus.

[machina]

I think it's pretty specific to the artist in question - the exact same thing happened to sims here in melbourne... he played a pretty clean, but IMO boring and generic set that didn't really have any power behind it and Liebing came on straight after him and made him look awful, not in terms of technical ability, but in terms of power and enthusiasm - i think that's the main difference - many of the big guns don't have the enthusiasm anymore and it comes across in their playing...

that said, mills is still so original in his style that he can rock it - if you're into that sort of thing...

machina

[MARKEG]

no honest, it's not specific to the artist in q. it's for all the old the old guns. i'm not trying to be -ve. i'm just trying to say. there's a new genn of ppl out there. and the sooner we realise it the better....

my opinion ;)

[MARKEG]

but totally respect to the old guys, for sure.

i really hope you see what i'm trying to say here....

read the post again eh ;)

[machina]

well - still, i'm thinking that enthusiasm is the key issue, obviously it's harder for the older guys to keep it up, and it comes across... when you don't love something anymore you should leave it - but for a lot of people it's all they can do to put food on the table, but this compromises the standard of the music, especially if they ain't really into it anymore.

machina

[machina]

I agree completely by the way, a lot of the new names and producing really original and brilliant stuff... i think in the last 18 months techno production has started to really improve and become original again after a couple of lean years...

machina

[Craig McW]

Sims killed Liebing at that party Machina. But let's not go down that path.

Agree wholeheartedly, you see the reaction on the floor when you play something new, that you just don't get from older producers like Sims

[machina]

Sims killed Liebing at that party Machina. But let's not go down that path.

i knew you were going to say that... :)

machina

[MARKEG]

right, but can we get onto the topic???

[Craig McW]

right, but can we get onto the topic???

rightio.

I think they are losing it you know. I don't think someone like Sims has the ability to produce a track with the impact of someone like Rios... even if he tried.

It's a different headspace, a different approach.

Mills is a brilliant producer, and in his time has made groundbreaking music. But everything he does now is a re-hash, and somewhat stale. I have a soft spot for it, but when you play it to people they just don't appreciate it.

However, Hawtin seems to have stayed in form, but then again he's evolved his style. I think that's the key to remaining innovative: evolution. Sims, Mills et al are still kinda producing the same rekkids they did 5 years ago....

[Craig McW]

I also think Sims makes records that are meant for he/himself to play in his sets. They work when he's doing his 3 deck wizardry, whenever someone else plays his gear it doesn't quite have the same appeal.

[machina]

Yeah - but do you guys think that Sims was ever in the league of Mills or Clarke? I don't know, I never rated him that highly - he was brilliant for a while and had a distinct sound... but i don't think he was ever as prolific or influential as a Mills or a Hawtin or Clarke - I think those guys are in another league - and if you drop a brilliant Mills or Hawtin track, the crowd inevitably goes off.

machina

[SlavikSvensk]

but totally respect to the old guys, for sure.

i really hope you see what i'm trying to say here....

read the post again eh ;)

there are, IMO, several issues here:

a) some famous djs/producers lose the plot and just go through the motions in order to keep earning income.

this is obvious, though by no means does it include everyone, or even most old guys. for example, derrick may is one of my all-time favorite djs, but i saw him a couple months back here in seattle and he looked and played like he was bored s***less.

as craig mcw said...some producers do little innovative, and just rehash their hits in less and less compelling form.

b) as sunil said, the old hard isn't so hard anymore.

a lot of people are into hard techno because it's hard. i'm not, so i don't really understand this mindset completely (though i do like a lot of hard techno). but it's like asking a kid into slayer why he thinks megadeth are soft.

c) tastes are narrowing

i hate to be so negative, but i generally see less sophisticated listeners our there, BOA board members aside, of course! ;) but remember when it was common to hear house in a techno set? or when a set would run from minimal to banging? now you see club nights where everyone plays the same thing. and people only like it if it's this one narrow sub-genre-within-a-sub-genre. many djs and producers, i think, challenge their listeners less, and listeners as a result ask for less of a challenge.

d) finally...mark's point...new producers may be making better records than a lot of the old guys

i'm not convinced that this is 100% true, but i'm putting it here because i think it could very well be...

i know tons of people probably disagree with me on some of these points...

[The Overfiend]

I wouldn't say that the older talents need to conform, but I will say the energy comment may be correct.
naming names though I dunno.
The older heads still have tracks that are timeless and hold up today.
Ben Sims Vs. Rue East - Three Of A Kind still kills.
Jeff Mills - Some of the Waveform Transmissions material still bangs.

[Komplex]

I think they're just burnt out from being famous and don't have the time to sit around coming up with imaginative music anymore.

[SlavikSvensk]

The older heads still have tracks that are timeless and hold up today.

word. step to enchantment will rock any but the sorriest techno dancefloor...

[eyes without a face]

. I don't think someone like Sims has the ability to produce a track with the impact of someone like Rios... even if he tried.

i found that comment particulary well, ill informed really.... Sims has done some absolute gem's over the years and i presume its Carlos Rios u mean there, yeah he's a bad ass producer, but Sim's has done so much for techno over the years the likes of Rios etc can only try to achieve.... even if people are "losing" it now, which i must agree alot of people are imo, thats not to say people shouldnt hold up the legacy that these artists have created before them.... without Sims we wouldnt have half the number of tribal/club producers there are, even some of the more up n coming ones...

i think the bigger artists kinda go through the motions a bit more as they get older and they've been doing the job for longer, travel takes its toll, some rely on older records a bit TOO much etc etc

i wholeheartedly agree about the new skool as it were, but i wudnt class Sven and Amok in there as they are more than established artists now, but some of the the talent on this board is pretty badddd!!!!

thats badddd in a good way of course haha

[LOCKED]

I disagree , i think Mills , Sims, Clarke , Beyer , Carola - all the big guns are still at the top of the game, ive seen them all recently and they have impressed me big time and made me realize that they still love it ! Look at Clarke, he has the option to go in any direction musically he wants to , yet u still here him playing some of the sickest techno tunes around !