JUST MUSIC - JUST SCREWED !

[TechMouse]

I blame Schranz.

[JamieBall]

Dude, I ain't even started warming up, yet !

Don't tell me to chill just cause you don't like my response, I seriously didn't mean to cause offence...

NO malice intended in it, it's just the way myself and a great many others see things - to be perfectly honest IT'S THE WAY THINGS ARE.

You give your opinion - I give you reality in return.

Apologies if it's not the reality you were after, but reality it is nonetheless.

[JamieBall]

I BLAME THE TURTLES

(tenuous back to the planet reference)

[detfella]

good luck with your future projects, strange becuase we were about to set up an account with just music this week :/

[Jay Pace]

You give your opinion - I give you reality in return.

Apologies if it's not the reality you were after, but reality it is nonetheless.

Ach, get over yourself.

I'm not apologising for liking a lot of stuff thats coming out at the moment.

Vinyl sales are plummeting everywhere, and its probably no suprise you got caught out as well.

And lastly - and its been said before - this weekend thousands of kids will go out for the first time and listen to techno djs. They will love it, and will go home wide eyed with excitement about the new world they have just discovered.

And you what? They won't give a flying fuk if a minimal tune that blew them away was done better by Robert Hood in the early 90s.

Your view of techno isn't the one shared by the thousands who are going out every week. And to be honest, I care more about what they think. They are the future. Its just too bad they prefer downloading to buying plastic.

If you think everything is going down the pan - hey its your reality.

So deal with it.

[Jay Pace]

*disclaimer*

Sorry, that was rude.

I just don't like reading so much negativity. There's too much to love about the scene, and too much to be excited about.

I'm sorry if you no longer feel that way.

[detfella]

correction: vinyl sales are not plummating everywhere, in fact, rock singles sell more on vinyl than they do on cds.

there are other genres like bassline house and grime that are selling by the bucketload.

yeah people might be going to techno nights and having a wicked time, but people dont need to buy the vinyls anymore, i stopped buying the vast quantites of techno vinyl because it serves no function. i dont dj out and i will rarely sit down and think, oooh, i'd love to listen to that solid kick drum for 6 mins. there are some exceptions tho...people like vogel, speedy j, have been incorporating electronica sounds into their techno, which i find much more musically pleasing, so i will still continue to listen to these, but then i'd prefer them as cds.

say you have a techno 12 that sold 2000 copies, i wonder how many of those sold are to djs that regurlarly play out. the top 100 djs get mailed all the latest vinyls anyway. there was a time that people thought they might be the next big dj, then it shifted to "you have to have a track released before you are considered" so it seems the trend has shifted again and ultimately polluted the scene with lots of labels and half baked/copied techno.

i think the future of music is retrograding to the past times and is going to become free to all. i get to hear lots of new music thru forums and net labels, why pay when there is interesting music available for free?

[JamieBall]

Ach, get over yourself.

> ummm.....

I'm not apologising for liking a lot of stuff thats coming out at the moment.

> Didn't ask you to. Do what you want.

Vinyl sales are plummeting everywhere, and its probably no suprise you got caught out as well.

> Indeed, Sherlock

And lastly - and its been said before - this weekend thousands of kids will go out for the first time and listen to techno djs. They will love it, and will go home wide eyed with excitement about the new world they have just discovered.

> This is not untrue

And you what? They won't give a flying fuk if a minimal tune that blew them away was done better by Robert Hood in the early 90s.

> Again true. They have no previous point of reference. This links in to my point about such artists not selling so well nowadays.

Your view of techno isn't the one shared by the thousands who are going out every week. And to be honest, I care more about what they think. They are the future. Its just too bad they prefer downloading to buying plastic.

> I don't care if other people don't share my view. You've got entirely the wrong impression of my 'view' anyway. Also, I don't mind at all if people download music as long as the artist gets paid for it (if they don't WANT paid that's something different). Vinyl/Cd/Mp3 it doesn't really bother me. I play out always on pc either live sets or virtual dj sets so how can I expect others to stick to buying vinyl. Also although I don't fully agree with all they stand for, things like Soulseek do definitely help get your music to places where realistically it would not normally go. I love the internet for this feature. Anyone can tap into anything from anywhere.

If you think everything is going down the pan - hey its your reality.

> I don't. You misunderstand me. Completely.

So deal with it.

> ummmm....... Quite argumentative aren't we ??? All I did to begin with was explain pretty much why I thought our company is not doing so good, which I reckon I'm more than entitled to do being as it's been the subject of much speculation on here of late. It's up to you if you want to start talking like everything that's coming out is amazing after I've said I'm not particularly impressed with a lot of music of late. Great. I'm happy for you. Glad you've found something you like. All I'm just saying that this 'amazing' music does NOT translate into 'amazing' sales, plain and simple, and that it is essentially nothing new or groundbreaking. Like most techno.

I'm not saying there isn't stuff out there that UTTERLY rocks, I just think it is far less visible than the mediocre gear simply because there is less of it around. People will usually buy the records that are available to them, this has changed of late thanks to the internet but in the past basically your taste was often controlled by what shops would buy in - and this is usually your middle of the road stuff that is sure to sell, as you've said already.

Anyways......

[Louk]

mate that is bad news this is happening everywhere at the moment :(

Louk

[Jay Pace]

You misunderstand me. Completely.

Fine, all well and good then. I just really didn't appreciate your opinion vs. reality angle. It was patronising and conceited.

Anyways, like I said best of luck with whatever you move on to.

;)

[SlavikSvensk]

i think either all the current business models are broke, or the industry is in the midst of a really brutal correction. or both. i'd have more money than i do if i knew the solution. whatever the case, sorry this happened and good luck to you.

[Sunil]

I just really didn't appreciate your opinion vs. reality angle. It was patronising and conceited.

:roll:

Sorry man, but that's complete bollocks.

[Ritzi Lee]

And again the labels are FU-CKED!!

[Sunil]

I just really didn't appreciate your opinion vs. reality angle. It was patronising and conceited.

:roll:

Sorry man, but that's complete bollocks.

By the way, if I was insulting there, apologies. "Patronising" and "Conceited" are a bit over the top though. I thought he was pretty bang on in many ways.

Also, if the minimal craze, Speedy J having a good album with Liebing, other *decent* records and Vogel's album adds up to a good year, then good for you, that's all I can say ;)

[RDR]

i think either all the current business models are broke, or the industry is in the midst of a really brutal correction. or both. i'd have more money than i do if i knew the solution. whatever the case, sorry this happened and good luck to you.

thats the most sense anyone has said here.

Change exists within business and associated models. im not an expert on the industry (dont misunderstand me - i said expert, not ill informed) and more oftne than not businesses go under due to either changing economic climate or poor business management.

Music changes - business who dont get swept away.

Im truly sorry to hear about just music going under, another precious resource gone. hope you find work soon dude.

[Martin Dust]

Sorry to hear the news Jamie...

[massplanck]

:( Lots of good labels on just. Fix/Dotcom/Drought etc blah blah blah.

Things change. But this feels a bit like having your arsehole ripped apart as opposed to just change.

[Jay Pace]

I just really didn't appreciate your opinion vs. reality angle. It was patronising and conceited.

:roll:

Sorry man, but that's complete bollocks.

By the way, if I was insulting there, apologies. "Patronising" and "Conceited" are a bit over the top though. I thought he was pretty bang on in many ways.

Also, if the minimal craze, Speedy J having a good album with Liebing, other *decent* records and Vogel's album adds up to a good year, then good for you, that's all I can say ;)

I guess I have low expectations. ;)

100 decent singles, half a dozen decent albums, I'd call that a good year.
But I can understand that its probably not a particularly profitable one for others.

[crime]

100 decent singles, half a dozen decent albums, I'd call that a good year.

1995:
Advent-elements of life LP, Internal 12s
Cristian Vogel-Absolute time LP, Conscious arrays, Defunkt,
Joey Beltram-Places LP,
Neil Landstrumm-Brown By August LP
Surgeon - manganese, electronically tested, pet 2000
Planetary assault systems - archives LP
djax up beats kicking it out
Disco B kicking it out
Force Inc kicking it out
and much more in 95 that I can't even remember right now..

you trying to tell me that this year (2005) had as many classics as 1995? 1996? 1997?

Ok, maybe some of us were lucky enough to be into this scene in this time, maybe we have a different perspective because we were younger and more naive in this time.. maybe it's because the scene itself was younger and more naive, and a lot of ground hadn't been covered that has today..
either way, techno isn't as fresh sounding as it was 10 years ago (although I suspect this can also depend on veiwpoit, age experiences etc)

as far as I'm concerned 95-96 was the peak of real quality techno, and also was a time where having a good selling record would earn you a good bit of money.

these days a lot of people are starting labels, and as I've said before, where you used to have maybe 100 or 200 (as an example) labels, and now you have probably easily in excess of 1000 techno labels.

ten times the amount of labels selling a tenth of what a label would sell ten years ago (if that)

with a decline in interest in techno (maybe because so much shite gets released, maybe because the time is past), are you suprised at the situation? so many records I hear sound the same as the next record, djs love them "because they fit well in my set".. a lot of people started labels and put out numerous records in quick succesion because they thought x amount of records = x amount of gigs, doesn't work like that. I've seen people put out albums this year, pure tosh, which was purely career motivated, and not about putting together a real quality product..

this is why we're in this situation.. distributors thought more titles=more sales but unless you have the quality control, all those records in the warehouse are going to come crashing down on top of you...

basically techno seems to be full of DJs, artists, Promotors etc and not many consumers/party goers.. the whole thing has become top heavy... fair enough if you want to make music, but it ain't going to buy you a jag, and it's probably going to cost you a lot of money...

as far as I'm concerned techno's been dying since 97, and this isn't neccesarily a bad thing, because as it goes back underground, only the true people stick with it... hopefully something new will emerge in the end, not techno but some kind of fusion of things... maybe this is what Grime is now.. maybe because we're not 17 year old kids in hackney we don't see it the same way... look at the way Dizzee and ms dynamite broke thru into the mainstream in the same way that underworld, leftfield, and the prodigy did 10 years ago.. you used to have Voodoo on late night TV, big coverage of techno in the music press

techno has become exactly the opposite of what it was supposed to be... the tradjedy is, as the style became defined it was inevitable that it would become the exact opposite of what it was supposed to be about i.e. INNOVATION... and this is the thing, when something falls out of the 4/4 kick to most people it's not techno any more..

I mean this discussion can go round and round, yes it's sad when businesses fall apart, yes it's sad when people lose money, it's very facile to blame mp3s, I mean for christ sake what about tapes in the past? how often do you actually see a dj playing mp3s?

I can't speak for the US, but in europe the only people I see playing with final scratch or whatever is in the MINIMAL scene, the scene that supposedly sells MORE records.. when I'm at a techno party, i see people playing RECORDS, and I'm out all over germany and other places in europe every weekend, I go to a lot of different places all over the continent and further...

and in the US, none of the US distributors want to pick up techno for fear of poor sales so of course it's going to be more mp3 orientated.. same with brasil where the import tax is so high, but I meet people in poland who spend the equivilent to them of like £50 for EACH record, and are buying all the old shite off e-bay..

the best thing you can do is not to get into bad business situations and cover your arse at all times, I've been burned loads of times in this game, you just got to brush it off and carry on... (and Jamie, this isn't any kind of dig at you, you know we're down man ;) )

and as far as "is techno alive" or "is techno dead" (yawn) why not just get on, write music you like, try not to think about the money side too much (Apart from using your head) and ENJOY IT... we ain't living in 1995 anymore... but there is still enjoyment to get out of the whole thing...


And by the way, if you want a good look at the way things have changed in the past ten years, Neil landstrumm's archive on the scandinavia site is a really good read, check it out here: http://www.scandinavianyc.com/nickedidea.html check out particuarly the press cuttings....

[FUSION]

dam straight hit the nail right on the head there mark :clap: :clap: