JUST MUSIC - JUST SCREWED !

[SlavikSvensk]

i also think techno was better 95-97, but i also distinctly remember a lot of old hands at the time saying the same things about 91-93 that you hear now...

...it all comes down to taste and experience. i think the old stuff is better. crime thinks so too. jay does not.

i really don't see any point in arguing this further, unless we're talking about how to bring back into techno those things some of us think have been lost.

[RDR]

Techno was best in the days of Musqiue Concrete, we are all just copy cats...

PS - love the musical skin you are in.

[MangaFish]

i also think techno was better 95-97, but i also distinctly remember a lot of old hands at the time saying the same things about 91-93 that you hear now...

...it all comes down to taste and experience. i think the old stuff is better. crime thinks so too. jay does not.

i really don't see any point in arguing this further, unless we're talking about how to bring back into techno those things some of us think have been lost.

totally. i'm not overly fond of a lot of the so called 'classics', but then i am a new comer to techno so the world i know has only existed for the last 2 or 3 years.

If techno used to be better back in the day, then why not produce / DJ more of that style?

[RDR]

i also think techno was better 95-97, but i also distinctly remember a lot of old hands at the time saying the same things about 91-93 that you hear now...

...it all comes down to taste and experience. i think the old stuff is better. crime thinks so too. jay does not.

i really don't see any point in arguing this further, unless we're talking about how to bring back into techno those things some of us think have been lost.

totally. i'm not overly fond of a lot of the so called 'classics', but then i am a new comer to techno so the world i know has only existed for the last 2 or 3 years.

If techno used to be better back in the day, then why not produce / DJ more of that style?

Becasue you cant go back if you want music to remain intersting... like i always say, the ONLY truth in music is evolution - change IS what we need and desire. Techno music only made it big because it WAS a change. It cannot be a change forever. Tommorow is where we mjust look, not a t yesterday, unless we look there for reference, rather than comfort.

[MangaFish]

I'm not saying completely U-turn, but take lessons from the oldskool.

For example:
Someone on here was saying how there isnt much song style techno these days - well theres no reason why people cant write that sort of stuff.

[SlavikSvensk]

If techno used to be better back in the day, then why not produce / DJ more of that style?

this will happen. it is already happening. but it's not the answer, IMO. i can only speak for myself, but i imagine many others who feel like me aren't lamenting that techno has moved away stylistically, but that it's lost some of its naive exuberance, it's experimental qualities, its soul.

so if people are happy with techno as is, then there's no prob for them. if people are not, we need to do something about it. just music tried, and it didn't work out. i applaud that and hope there are good things on the horizon for them and for people who feel the same way about techno.

i just don't see the point of arguing further along the lines of:

"it was better before"
"no it wasn't"
"yes it was"
"no it wasn't

[massplanck]

about how to bring back into techno those things some of us think have been lost.

kill the software. kill it

[MangaFish]

If techno used to be better back in the day, then why not produce / DJ more of that style?

this will happen. it is already happening. but it's not the answer, IMO. i can only speak for myself, but i imagine many others who feel like me aren't lamenting that techno has moved away stylistically, but that it's lost some of its naive exuberance, it's experimental qualities, its soul.

so if people are happy with techno as is, then there's no prob for them. if people are not, we need to do something about it. just music tried, and it didn't work out. i applaud that and hope there are good things on the horizon for them and for people who feel the same way about techno.

i just don't see the point of arguing further along the lines of:

"it was better before"
"no it wasn't"
"yes it was"
"no it wasn't

So what you are basically saying is you miss your outlook on techno?

Obviously i'm not having a dig at you (or anyone else specifically), but when people say "techno used to be better" i oftern wonder how many of them actually thought techno music was better and how many of them just miss their honeymoon period with techno. Two very different issue imo.

Sorry if this has already been said - i didnt fancy reading 2 pages to get up to speed on the debate :dontevengothere:

[SlavikSvensk]

So what you are basically saying is you miss your outlook on techno?

Obviously i'm not having a dig at you (or anyone else specifically), but when people say "techno used to be better" i oftern wonder how many of them actually thought techno music was better and how many of them just miss their honeymoon period with techno. Two very different issue imo.

Sorry if this has already been said - i didnt fancy reading 2 pages to get up to speed on the debate :dontevengothere:

this is exactly the kind of thing i was trying to end on this thread. i used to love to get into it, now i just find it self-defeating. why insist everyone share one's one views?

look, i miss the way techno used to feel...TO ME. that's my opinion and my right. i am in no way forcing you to see the world my way, but if you ask me 100 times, you will get 100 answers that say " i think techno used to be better than it is today."

:)

[SlavikSvensk]

for the record, though, i DO think there are quality releases nowadays. anything by secret cinema for a start!

[MARKEG]

just my opinion - some great comments here guys.. please try to keep this from descending into thepointless shit!!! there's some real nice leasons to be learnt here!

[MARKEG]

ps real sorry to hear this j.

really bad news :(

[V..]

I`m very sorry to hear that Just have gone down, this is really bad, and another blow to the scene in the UK.
Eukatech in london has also gone.

Meanwhile the latest Dave the Drummer wannabe releases another pointless record on another pointless label that they have started because no one would release their stuff.
When will this end?
There will be one label per "producer" one day, and all of them releasing virtually the same tune.

I think both the business and the music needs to change and develope to keep itself alive.
Distributers shoulder some of the blame, when saying "yes" to another piece of cloned tat, they could retain some kind of quality control and say "no".

There is no easy solution to the current problems, but I think part of the solution is to wake up and smell the coffee.

[tocsin]

i really don't see any point in arguing this further, unless we're talking about how to bring back into techno those things some of us think have been lost.

Kill all rock stars.

[SlavikSvensk]

i really don't see any point in arguing this further, unless we're talking about how to bring back into techno those things some of us think have been lost.

Kill all rock stars.

yarg...maybe i was misunderstood. i meant there's no point arguing over whether or not techno is great now or was better 10 years ago...AGAIN. those who have opinions one way or the other (me included) probably won't change them because someone argued with them on a forum, and both are valid opinions based on personal taste and experience.

this thread should be about just music's troubles.

[djshiva]

there was a time that people thought they might be the next big dj, then it shifted to "you have to have a track released before you are considered" so it seems the trend has shifted again and ultimately polluted the scene with lots of labels and half baked/copied techno.

bingo.

what i have been saying for years is that the industry standard "you have to have records out to get booked", resulted in a lot of shite techno on wax.

frankly, that's why it took me so long to start producing. i have been DJing for 10 years, but i didn't want to go out and just throw down some disposable crap. hell, maybe i do anyway in some people's eyes, but i waited until i felt i could say something with what i made. at the end of the day, it means something to me anyhow...

[eyeswithoutaface]

I`m very sorry to hear that Just have gone down, this is really bad, and another blow to the scene in the UK.
Eukatech in london has also gone.

Meanwhile the latest Dave the Drummer wannabe releases another pointless record on another pointless label that they have started because no one would release their stuff.
When will this end?
There will be one label per "producer" one day, and all of them releasing virtually the same tune.

I think both the business and the music needs to change and develope to keep itself alive.
Distributers shoulder some of the blame, when saying "yes" to another piece of cloned tat, they could retain some kind of quality control and say "no".

There is no easy solution to the current problems, but I think part of the solution is to wake up and smell the coffee.

the middle paragraph is hitting the nail on the head there imo ... i was having this conversation with someone the other day, i hate the way people feel the need to start 2, 3 labels for the same bunch of their mates to release on, it just leads to the same tracks being regurgitated over and over and spread across 2, 3, 4 labels that could EASILY be condensed down to 1 when you release that the labels may have different ethos, at least in the blog that comes with them, but really they are putting out exactly the same stuff on each label, thus saturating the market with more clones and moaning when all their labels end up going down because they didnt have the hindsight to just concentrate on 1 and see where it goes instead of trying to run before they can walk!

it really is not that hard at all to get your music onto other peoples label's these days, the whole point here being there is too many anyway hence half the problems that are occuring.

re the having to release to get gigs thing, yeah it works for some, but its bull for others, i know plenty of Djs who are top class but dont have a clue about production nor are they that interested and are doing very well for themselves regardless

this is one of the only topics thats interested me on here in a long time, and although it was born out of bad circumstances definately need more topics like this

[Jay Pace]

Same problem is happening everywhere in media: Clutter and Fragmentation.

Basically too much being touted across too many channels to not enough people. There are the same problems in TV, Press & the internet. Its just an indication of a mature market, and a natural consequence of the switch to digital.

What this means is that you are usually left with a handful of big brands, and thousands of niche brands. In Techno its the same - a handful of credible labels and countless smaller ones.

I've always really enjoyed digging - I think thats part of what djing is about - sifting through reams of shite to find the little nuggest of gold that others may have overlooked. I'm also really glad that loads of people are producing and get their stuff out. It prevents elitism, and ultimately paves the way to innovation. New artists are responsible for breaking new ground. Sure, they may start by copying their idols - but who hasn't? Its how you learn. No one starts a career at the top of their game. Few people are distinctive from the outset, it usually takes time for people to establish their sound.

At the moment there are plenty of people sticking to the tried and tested. Computer technology has made production a possiblity for almost everyone, rather than a chosen few, and their are a lot of new artists who need to mature. But I think thats what makes the djs contribution so much more valuable - they can present their own sound rather than run through a techno top 10.

In drum & bass you used to have nights when every headliner would turn up with the same records as everyone else. Everyone had the same "big tunes". Quality tunes, but to be honest it got really boring listening to them.

I'm optimistic about the future.

[Louk]

Eukatech in london has also gone.

WHAT?!?! no way - I only bought a new eukatech a few months ago - the 10" one... jin mull i thikn it was called.

Louk

[JamieBall]

Cheers for everyone's views so far and for the various messages of condolence...

Much appreciated !

Also, as ever, some interesting points being raised.

JB