Jumping Ship

**MARKEG** · 17-02-2006, 01:15 AM

Wow there's been so much minimal hate here recently when alot of us actually always really loved Maurizio, Rob Hood, Basic Channel etc etc. But what I'm saying is, what the hell is wrong with a hard techno artist or tribal techno artist deciding they want to explore minimal?

Alot see it as jumping ship but I see it as trying to do something different. Sure I wouldn't play minimal in the clubs I play but I'm really into checking it out and learning about it.

But this topic isnt about minimal, it's about jumping ship. Why do ppl do it? And why do ppl slag it?

Let's get to the bottom of this shit!!!

**dirty_bass** · 17-02-2006, 01:23 AM

It`s cool to experiment and expand. I diverse artist is a good artist.
But to just abandon one and jump onto and commit to another, to me, seems to show a dispassionate motivation.
There`s a difference between diversifying and following trends.

**machina** · 17-02-2006, 01:23 AM

I think it's because a lot of people seem to be jumping ship for the sake of it - not because of a genuine interest or love of the music, but because it's what's everyone is doing and they want to still be seen as 'cool' or 'cutting edge'. Often, and i think this is the case with a lot of hard tek dj's getting into minimal, they clearly sound like they don't know what they are doing - playing what people tell them is cool and not really adding any personality to the sound because they don't really get it. Compare the sets that some of the bandwagon jumpers have done to the people who have really been doing it for years like steve bug or brinkmann or whoever and they really do sound completely second rate.

machina

**dirty_bass** · 17-02-2006, 01:24 AM

And just to say, I love minimal. But most of the stuff I like is by the people who really know it, and are passionate about it. The lackluster minimal for the sake of it stuff that`s started appearing ain`t so hot.

**dirty_bass** · 17-02-2006, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by machina

I think it's because a lot of people seem to be jumping ship for the sake of it - not because of a genuine interest or love of the music, but because it's what's everyone is doing and they want to still be seen as 'cool' or 'cutting edge'. Often, and i think this is the case with a lot of hard tek dj's getting into minimal, they clearly sound like they don't know what they are doing - playing what people tell them is cool and not really adding any personality to the sound because they don't really get it. Compare the sets that some of the bandwagon jumpers have done to the people who have really been doing it for years like steve bug or brinkmann or whoever and they really do sound completely second rate.

machina

what he said.

**machina** · 17-02-2006, 01:25 AM

...and i think it makes their so-called love of techno seem like it was fake and that they are and always have been manufactured.

machina

**MARKEG** · 17-02-2006, 01:26 AM

ahh steve bug.. really understanding that heehe :clap:

**The Overfiend** · 17-02-2006, 01:31 AM

I just don't like bandwagon jumpers.
People who act like something they are not.
A lot of these people are jumping ship because it is what is hot at the moment.
I know this for fact. Some of everybody here's idols have done so to survive.
Me personally, I cannot be anyone else other than myself.
Personality wise and aurally.
If I am going to do anything musically outside of ( techno ) In the bubble on purpose.
It's going to be House. Yeah I said it.
Or soundtrack work..

**Dustin Zahn** · 17-02-2006, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by machina

I think it's because a lot of people seem to be jumping ship for the sake of it - not because of a genuine interest or love of the music, but because it's what's everyone is doing and they want to still be seen as 'cool' or 'cutting edge'. Often, and i think this is the case with a lot of hard tek dj's getting into minimal, they clearly sound like they don't know what they are doing - playing what people tell them is cool and not really adding any personality to the sound because they don't really get it. Compare the sets that some of the bandwagon jumpers have done to the people who have really been doing it for years like steve bug or brinkmann or whoever and they really do sound completely second rate.

machina

To be honest, I think a lot of the DJs coming from a hard techno background are making and playing better records than most of the new minimal kids. I think its also pretty ignorant to say most hard techno heads are jumping ship simply to survive. I'd say that statement is around 50% accurate.

People like Marco Carola for instance, a lot of people give the guy shit but realistically some of his earliest works were minimal. I have plenty of sets from 99-2003 that had a lot of minimal tracks in them. He's always been a fan of it, but now that its popular there's no doubt he's going to take advantage of something he couldn't get away with before.

Take Beyer for instance. Sure, to be honest I was pretty surprised to see Mr. Drumcode chill out a bit. But his Mad Eye label and the Plus 8 release prove that he has something different to offer instead of adding to the clutter. His minimalish DJ sets are also more intricate, skilled, and more of a party-vibe than most of your new school minimal DJs.

Now for other harder techno producers. There are some on I have booked (even members of this forum) who I know for a fact have simply jumped ship to survive. I brought a DJ here who wanted nothing to do with the minimal stuff we had to offer throughout the night aside from said DJ. Shortly after I see the DJ has now begun producing minimal records. The distributor went on to tell me the DJs sales had suffered tremendously so they began a minimal project to gain better sales. This is pretty lame, but that's the way the world works. Bad shit happens.

Now for the in-between producers. I think a lot of techno producers heard about the minimal craze and were bored in their studio so they decided to give it a shot. It's amazing how slowing your BPMs down by 10 beats and being forced to use something besides conga loops can change your studio experience. 5+ years of the same process over and over can get really boring in the studio. So changing it up a bit has been a lot of fun for some producers. Now...you can take that statement and it should tell you something about hard techno. You can't rely on forumlas to push things forward.

@SummerofSam: Why do you suggest there may be a blacklash to preference for house music? As far as I'm concerned, it's always been a major backbone for techno music. Nothing to be ashamed about. Now if you're into sissy vocally watered down house I'd kick your ass (but I wouldn't be able to because I'm like half your size). :)

**machina** · 17-02-2006, 03:40 AM

But there is a very big difference between producers and dj's. I'm all for producers trying new things and experimenting with new genre's - in fact i think it's absolutely imperative to expand as a musician by being open to everything. As a producer i make everything from cheeky pop to minimal to hard techno and experimental. Beyer especially was one of the first to start the whole minimal trend and he's obviously into it and immersed himself in it, even starting a whole label - mad eye dedicated to it - good luck to him. He's not really the person that i have too much of a problem with although his new sound is still not really my cup of tea. What i DO have a problem with, is the people that heard him do it and blindly followed him without knowing what they are on about - seriously some of the dj sets floating around by ex-techno dj's sound like they've walked into the local record store, bought the top 40 minimal tunes, and called themselves a minimal dj. it's bollocks.

machina

**Dustin Zahn** · 17-02-2006, 04:22 AM

Honestly, I don't see how you could classify the Mad Eye stuff as minimal. I get why you would, but its arugably harder than anything he's done since he and henrik b did the drumcode 2lp. The whole minimal movement started long before he did. I'd have to pinpoint Hawtin as being the most infuential DJ for the trend (who is now beginning to play harder and harder again every day). Most Beyer fans I know (close-minded ones mind you) are actually uspet with Adam's direction as a DJ.

Also, as for the comment about the "ex-techno" jocks playing top 40 minimal tunes, 9 times out of 10 they're probably the same people who were playing the top 40 hard techno tunes. For me personally, I think the top 40 minimal tunes are the most popular stuff for a reason. They're usually the top of the crop, and the amazing releases that float by the public ear are usually gems to the bin-diggers. Just like any genre of music.

I agree with you for the most part and disagree on some things. I think some people are too quick to point fingers, and/or believing the hype too much. I also think a lot of people think these aforementioned DJs are just "abandoing" the harder music completely when that isn't the case. Hawtin, Beyer, all those popular big time DJs will play a harder record if its good and different. Unfortunately the fact is, the hard techno coming out these days is the worst its ever been. On top of it, there's such a small amount of it coming out that there isn't many good ones that come out a year. Another quick point to consider is that these are the same DJs who play out 2+ times a week, 52 weeks a year. When you beat out hard techno 150+ times a year all over the world for 5-6 years straight obviously for most it's not going to have the same impact it did in the beginning.

**machina** · 17-02-2006, 05:27 AM

I understand what you're saying for sure... but in regard to the Beyer comments i was making, i meant in regards to techno dj's changing style - Hawtin has always been Hawtin, apart from a brief period in the late 90's all his production has been very minimal or acidy minimal, so he's kinda just pushing what he has always pushed so although he's definately influential to the trend, Beyer kinda has been more of an influence amongst hard techno dj's imo.

machina

**holotropik** · 17-02-2006, 05:54 AM

I reckon jumping ship is all about the economics, as has been mentioned, an act of survival seen as following a trend.

Depends what value you place on the music you love. If it is a business then yes you must make certain adjustments to your approach in order to be on the trend. Thats not necessarily a bad thing to most and it also has arguable consequences for the evolution of the music.

I still stand on the side of 'variety' in a set or production as being the only future we have, coming back to the individual artist to be known for their own origianl work that will stand out most obviously if they are not following a trend just to make a dollar.

Chasing one genre to the next only milks a sound to the point that everyone ends up hating it due to saturation.

**The Overfiend** · 17-02-2006, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Dustin Zahn

the hard techno coming out these days is the worst its ever been.

Like wha?

**rhythmtech** · 17-02-2006, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by SummerOfSam

Originally Posted by Dustin Zahn

the hard techno coming out these days is the worst its ever been.

Like wha?

exactly, i'm hearin some of the best techno coming out these days...

**davethedrummer** · 17-02-2006, 08:49 AM

honestly you lot
this is the umpteenth discussion about this.
there is still great music being made
so......... :roll:

**dirty_bass** · 17-02-2006, 09:00 AM

Hey mark started it Mr B.u.m.m.e.r, kick his ass.
Go on.
fight
fight
fight
fight
fight

**The Overfiend** · 17-02-2006, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by davethedrummer

honestly you lot
this is the umpteenth discussion about this.
there is still great music being made
so......... :roll:

The point I was getting at.

**MARKEG** · 17-02-2006, 11:16 AM

great, i'm djing with henry tonight :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

**dan the acid man** · 17-02-2006, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by MARK EG

great, i'm djing with henry tonight :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

im coming to hold the spit bucket :techno: :myagi:

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