music is not ( supposed to be) free!!!!

[RDR]

The whole problem as i see it is that music cannot be protected in its current format, consumners can and will download it, especially if it costs them nothing. It doesnt hurt their pockets, so screw it.

As underground dance music artists we pretty much get ignored by the main stream muso types (if you dont believe me check out ANY issue of the musicians onion magazine, sweet FA about electronic music unless its got something to do with a stockhausen piece :roll: )

We really dont have much say or representation in the industry, as the whole business is busy staring up its own backside/fiddling while rome burns/creating things like pop idle.. etc etc and FAR too busy to be interested in backing non-viable non-commercial artists.

The one thing i find more interesting than anything else is that in the history of recorded music (i mean music on a recording medium) there has NEVER been more democratisation of the spread of music and in particxlar peoples ability to listen to it. It really is the beginning, its isnt even the end of the beginning etc etc (insert churchillian phrasing here)

The only basic truth in music is evolution, broadband content delivery, telephonic wireless delivery, personal music these have only come about in the last 4 years, and it ISNT finished yet. not by a long way, i find the whole thing interesting and really wish i could see where it is all heading - just like everyone here, but unless we have an industry insider amongst us - which as i far as i can see reading this thread we dont, we wont get to be involved on the ground floor of any developments until they are almost upon us.

[TechMouse]

I'm going to kill you all.

you already killed me. i'm posting from purgatory...

Oh dear.

Sorry to hear that.. where should i send the flowers?

He said... purgatory...

[TechMouse]

techmouse, how dare you have an opinion!

What can I say, I'm a dangerous radical.

[holotropik]

I reckon if you build your little corner of the world with like minded artists and push the whole "buy not steal" ideal and give something of value in all media formats if necessary then many will seek you out and support you.

simply because you have momentum and strength and produce tha goods, a stigma and a solidarity - a crew.

[holotropik]

Forget that last comment by me....pie in the sky perfect world idea that doesnt really hold water in this circumstance.

Another stone to throw in tha pond...

I play Live from machines only. I dont DJ and never have. I play instruments as a musician does.
Whenever i have played a gig in between DJs the reaction from punters is far different. I get swamped by peeps who want to know what its all about. they want to know whats going on and how its done. They treat me as a musician and not a DJ. I often get them coming up during my set and want to know what/how I am doing.

Maybe people want to see someone 'playing' something and develop that punter-musician relationship that has always been in music.

I reckon it would be a different scene if there were more artists playing out Live than DJs.

[holotropik]

I am like most here though and feel helpless and have no answers to this huge problem. i too am waiting the storm out to see what pieces can be salvaged.

Nonetheless, i will push on and keep tryin'

[davethedrummer]

Henry, you're rationalizing doing the same thing as those who "steal music." So, you don't have a leg to stand on here. I don't understand how you can bitch about people who "steal" from you when you steal from others. And I find it insulting when you piss all over an emerging scene in the process. You want to be part of it when it's convenient just as you want to be outside of it when it's convenient. It doesn't work that way.

oh shut up tocsin.
get off your high horse

[Miromiric]

what do you mean shut up? tocsin is totally right here. you just can`t be so convenient about these things. it`s ok for you to test a software here and there or to use a loop or two, but it is not ok if someone wants to download your record and see if it`s worth of buying?

[Si the Sigh]

Fu*k off ^

If you want to check a track before buying check an online shop, not download the whole track.

You seem to be here for nothing more than to stir this up man...Leave it out.

[Miromiric]

you can not form a valid opinion based on 30secs lowbitrate clips.
mind you, i buy what i like. what i don`t like goes to the recycle bin.
and don`t tell me to fu*k off.

[Buttman]

Now now. The ppl who think that music is made to be sold makes crappy music anyway.

[tocsin]

oh shut up tocsin.
get off your high horse

No high horse here, dude. I'm just calling you out on some hypocrissy that you've broadcasted in this thread. If you find your reflection ugly, don't blame me. You made the same excuses for pirating software and using samples that the kids who download MP3s use. Seriously, how do you know if any artist "cares" if you used their sample? Did you ask? Does it really matter if you buy "most" of your software? I'm not on the high horse here because I'm not the one bitching about "you damn kids" downloading my music or anyone else's. That would be you.

Anyways, there is a way we can all work to maximize profit through digital sales. So far, we have a number of stores online, or label storefronts here and there, which are completely decentralized. It makes a one-stop situation (like record stores used to be) less of a reality. So, given the number of different skills and assets everyone has here, why not start working on one universal portal?

Here's the general idea.

1.) Existing labels/storefronts do not need to go anywhere. They can continue to operate on their own. However, for updates to their catalog, they do it in a standardized format (similar to RSS) which can be instantly and easilly read from our collective centralized server were talking about here. When a new release goes up, the site finds it in at least 24 hours without any need for human interaction.
2.) A PHP/CGI/whatever frontend is used which can take advantage of a mysql database which will have links to distributed media on any server, as well as hiding the permanant URLs where such media is contained.
3.) The same script frontend stores some type of paypal/CC account which can be unique for every digital download linked on the site. Thus, when someone buys some media, there is no delay for the artist/label in seeing their money and it never passes through the server's technical owners.

If techno artists took it on themselves to hype the URL for whatever server is used, and that server is truly kept as an open portal for techno music, why would any of us need Itunes and, for many purposes, a physical store? You could sell full burnable CDs by ISO.

[dan the acid man]

what do you mean shut up? tocsin is totally right here. you just can`t be so convenient about these things. it`s ok for you to test a software here and there or to use a loop or two, but it is not ok if someone wants to download your record and see if it`s worth of buying?

so would you be happy for me to come around to your house and steal your equipment, money, food, drink, tv, hi-fi etc

[Miromiric]

i would be angry at you, but if i also happen to be a thief and steal from other people`s houses i would be a hypocrite.
that`s what i said earlier, but you just did not get it.

[dan the acid man]

i think we all need to agree to disagree as its going around in circles, although there have been some really good ideas on this subject.

[crime]

yawn.... same arguments going round and round...
and it seems some are just up for having a pop at certain people just for the sake of having a pop...
very big and clever....
might as well lock it, it's not going anywhere interesting, I was going to quote the cliche'ed saying about arguing on forums = special olympics but I fear that those involved have probably been told it enough times before already.....

[dirty_bass]

oh shut up tocsin.
get off your high horse

No high horse here, dude. I'm just calling you out on some hypocrissy that you've broadcasted in this thread. If you find your reflection ugly, don't blame me. You made the same excuses for pirating software and using samples that the kids who download MP3s use. Seriously, how do you know if any artist "cares" if you used their sample? Did you ask? Does it really matter if you buy "most" of your software? I'm not on the high horse here because I'm not the one bitching about "you damn kids" downloading my music or anyone else's. That would be you.

Anyways, there is a way we can all work to maximize profit through digital sales. So far, we have a number of stores online, or label storefronts here and there, which are completely decentralized. It makes a one-stop situation (like record stores used to be) less of a reality. So, given the number of different skills and assets everyone has here, why not start working on one universal portal?

Here's the general idea.

1.) Existing labels/storefronts do not need to go anywhere. They can continue to operate on their own. However, for updates to their catalog, they do it in a standardized format (similar to RSS) which can be instantly and easilly read from our collective centralized server were talking about here. When a new release goes up, the site finds it in at least 24 hours without any need for human interaction.
2.) A PHP/CGI/whatever frontend is used which can take advantage of a mysql database which will have links to distributed media on any server, as well as hiding the permanant URLs where such media is contained.
3.) The same script frontend stores some type of paypal/CC account which can be unique for every digital download linked on the site. Thus, when someone buys some media, there is no delay for the artist/label in seeing their money and it never passes through the server's technical owners.

If techno artists took it on themselves to hype the URL for whatever server is used, and that server is truly kept as an open portal for techno music, why would any of us need Itunes and, for many purposes, a physical store? You could sell full burnable CDs by ISO.

We need this shit like yesterday.
where do I sign, and what can I do to help.

[tocsin]

We need this shit like yesterday.
where do I sign, and what can I do to help.

We need to put together some type of initial team, just like any other business. For us, we'll need, at the very least:

1.) Programmers
2.) Web admins/people with server space
3.) Graphic Designers
4.) Promoters/Artists/Labels
The programming will likely be the biggest hassle since, as of yet, I've not found any scipts that do this in the way that could make it most flexable. Rather, they are written for specific storefronts. However, if some scripts already exist to make this idea work, hardcore programmers may not even be that necesary.

[Buttman]

WHEN I MAKE MUSIC I WANT TO EXPRESS SOMETHING TO THE ONES AROUND ME. THE MORE OF THEM THAT HEAR IT, THE BETTER. BE IT MP3, VINYL, CASSETTE OR WHATEVER.

I DO OTHER THINGS THAN MUSIC TO MAKE A LIVING.

sorry, no caps lock.

[SlavikSvensk]

what do you mean shut up? tocsin is totally right here. you just can`t be so convenient about these things. it`s ok for you to test a software here and there or to use a loop or two, but it is not ok if someone wants to download your record and see if it`s worth of buying?

so would you be happy for me to come around to your house and steal your equipment, money, food, drink, tv, hi-fi etc

i have to agree with miro...i just don't think it's that clear cut...