Schranz Is Not Hard Techno

[The Overfiend]

Exactly
Hardgroove is a label.
Not a genre.

[FuK-NuT]

if its made by a machine then its techno....just some forms
are more shite than others ie Schranz, but its still techno imo

[Adrenalin]

For me, Schranz is a form of hard techno, just like progressive is a form of house, but they are 2 very different things. If people ask me, what's the difference between hard techno and schranz, I just tell them "Hard techno is hard techno and schranz is really hard techno". Simple as that. It's all hard, it's all techno and just like with any kind of music, there's good artists and there are bad artists. Good schranz = Scott Kemix, DJ Ocram, Robert Natus, Kay D. Smith, etc. Good hard techno = Alex Calver, Mark EG, Henry Cullen, Martyn Hare, Audioklinik, etc. And I definitely don't think of Schranz as commercial! Except for Canada, the harder styles of electronic aren't as accepted in North America as they are in Europe, unforunately. If I spun a schranz set where I live, it would clear the place out and I would never DJ locally again! haha!

[The Overfiend]

Kay D. Smith is by no means schranz, he's extremely good hard techno.

[Adrenalin]

True. Though some Kay D. Smith tracks are very abrasive and have played well alongside schranz tracks.

[MITA]

this!

A) have to agree with mark.



B) stop trying to call what was hard techno before in your eyes as hardgroove.

[koma]

what is the purpose of this sticky anyway? to make so-called "schranz" producers not welcomed on BOA?

and give a break with that "funk" shit. most of you dont even think about the funk, about some higher meaning, about making something groundbreaking, different... you just want the track to work on a dancefloor, lets be honest.

schranz is just hard techno taken to the extreme. same as speedcore took hardcore to the extreme, and then 150 newstyle suckers started moaning "oh, I can't dance to that bla bla bla". who cares, I can and I'm fine with it :cheese: of course there's lots of shit in speedcore as well in schranz, but I dont spend my time moaning about it, I'll rather talk about the good stuff. or search something beyond those genres. there's tons of music out there, damn it...

oh and yes, the sales. schranz is selling better than "normal" hard techno. but thats no reason for slagging. I also get angry sometimes about some bullshit stuff selling 3 times more than nice, clean stuff.. but you can' t really blame that producers, but the audience, right? oh yeah, kids are the future of the music, ai? dont think so...

ps. oh, now when someone said something, lets say, against Glenn, topic gets locked. when before somebody said he's milking the same sound record after record, there was a beef about it. I remember a topic how "Andreas Kremer is the daddy of hard techno", although the man has put out dozens of ultra badly produced/mastered vinyls.
not forgetting Ben sims whose half of records sounds the same...

of course they all have put out great records too, but sometimes it seems to me some people are untouchable, while others can get slagged. if you want to slag someone, slag everyone...be fair.

[eyeswithoutaface]

what is the purpose of this sticky anyway? to make so-called "schranz" producers not welcomed on BOA?

and give a break with that "funk" shit. most of you dont even think about the funk, about some higher meaning, about making something groundbreaking, different... you just want the track to work on a dancefloor, lets be honest.

schranz is just hard techno taken to the extreme. same as speedcore took hardcore to the extreme, and then 150 newstyle suckers started moaning "oh, I can't dance to that bla bla bla". who cares, I can and I'm fine with it :cheese: of course there's lots of shit in speedcore as well in schranz, but I dont spend my time moaning about it, I'll rather talk about the good stuff. or search something beyond those genres. there's tons of music out there, damn it...

oh and yes, the sales. schranz is selling better than "normal" hard techno. but thats no reason for slagging. I also get angry sometimes about some bullshit stuff selling 3 times more than nice, clean stuff.. but you can' t really blame that producers, but the audience, right? oh yeah, kids are the future of the music, ai? dont think so...

ps. oh, now when someone said something, lets say, against Glenn, topic gets locked. when before somebody said he's milking the same sound record after record, there was a beef about it. I remember a topic how "Andreas Kremer is the daddy of hard techno", although the man has put out dozens of ultra badly produced/mastered vinyls.
not forgetting Ben sims whose half of records sounds the same...

of course they all have put out great records too, but sometimes it seems to me some people are untouchable, while others can get slagged. if you want to slag someone, slag everyone...be fair.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[MARKEG]

[quote="eyeswithoutaface"]

what is the purpose of this sticky anyway? to make so-called "schranz" producers not welcomed on BOA?

and give a break with that "funk" shit. most of you dont even think about the funk, about some higher meaning, about making something groundbreaking, different... you just want the track to work on a dancefloor, lets be honest.

schranz is just hard techno taken to the extreme. same as speedcore took hardcore to the extreme, and then 150 newstyle suckers started moaning "oh, I can't dance to that bla bla bla". who cares, I can and I'm fine with it :cheese: of course there's lots of shit in speedcore as well in schranz, but I dont spend my time moaning about it, I'll rather talk about the good stuff. or search something beyond those genres. there's tons of music out there, damn it...

oh and yes, the sales. schranz is selling better than "normal" hard techno. but thats no reason for slagging. I also get angry sometimes about some bullshit stuff selling 3 times more than nice, clean stuff.. but you can' t really blame that producers, but the audience, right? oh yeah, kids are the future of the music, ai? dont think so...

ps. oh, now when someone said something, lets say, against Glenn, topic gets locked. when before somebody said he's milking the same sound record after record, there was a beef about it. I remember a topic how "Andreas Kremer is the daddy of hard techno", although the man has put out dozens of ultra badly produced/mastered vinyls.
not forgetting Ben sims whose half of records sounds the same...

of course they all have put out great records too, but sometimes it seems to me some people are untouchable, while others can get slagged. if you want to slag someone, slag everyone...be fair.

good points koma :clap:

[Miromiric]

koma is that bright, shining star on the horizon...

[koma]

oh hell, I was hoping for a good beef.. what, no one?
nevermind, I'll go to some hiphop board then :cheese:

now everyone will think I'm defending schranz, but its just that I dont fancy spitting on the whole genre.

Kvitta has this new label called Bullshit and most tracks - for me - are so far really bad. But that same dude released some killer tracks aswell (like "Wild West") and he's releasing more every so often + he's crazy behind decks, you want someone to rock the place with really really hard stuff, he's your man.
heard some new record by Minupren too, but didnt like it at all, I was like "whos going to buy this?!". on the other hand, I find his "Naak symphony" really good, specially if you want to tear the place apart. so you see, you can't tell me there's no good stuff there.

and my friends know my attitude best when they're about to release or play something I dont like. yes, its different, they also know the way I'm thinking and that theres no plain negativity in my words. with internet boards its not that easy, you really have to be careful when typing sometimes... and I would really like for BOA to be opened for everyone and grow even bigger. I want to see more people here, more topics about good new releases, more debates, more reports from good parties.. more of every bloody thing due to which we love this damn music so much

[BloodStar]

amen

[Patrick DSP]

Those are lots of great points Koma, :clap: but i think the issue at hand is that it seems that producers of "Schranz" are trying desperatly to re-name themselves as "Hand Techno" and producers who were making "Hard Techno" as "Hard Groove" It is as if Schranz is a dirty soiled word that they want to escape from, and thus they feel the need to shift everyone else around in order to fit their square peg in the round hole. i don't think it was an issue of it not being techno, of course it is. just that its kind of bold and selfish to run away from something that was created and reclassify others in the process just so they can have a better image.*

* now i'm not saying ever producer under the schranz umbrella is trying to do this, but there are a lot. and it is confusing a lot of the kids out there. and hense the reason for this thread i think. Ceci n'est pas vrai, Tony?

[massplanck]

Hardgroove? for fuk sake!

Are these guys cabbages or what?

[koma]

dunno.. I know djs who play lots of Sims-like music are calling their style "hardgroove".
like those who play surgeon and regis usually say "i play birmingham" hehe.

some producers dont like the word schranz since its a sound connected with liebings earlier releases, which is a lot different from the sound that developed in Germany and around since then...
but yes, some are probably affraid of a negative effect after being classified as schranz, due to bunch of bad bootlegs and over-distorted stuff most usually connect with the word today

[eyeswithoutaface]

Those are lots of great points Koma, :clap: but i think the issue at hand is that it seems that producers of "Schranz" are trying desperatly to re-name themselves as "Hand Techno" and producers who were making "Hard Techno" as "Hard Groove" It is as if Schranz is a dirty soiled word that they want to escape from, and thus they feel the need to shift everyone else around in order to fit their square peg in the round hole. i don't think it was an issue of it not being techno, of course it is. just that its kind of bold and selfish to run away from something that was created and reclassify others in the process just so they can have a better image.*

* now i'm not saying ever producer under the schranz umbrella is trying to do this, but there are a lot. and it is confusing a lot of the kids out there. and hense the reason for this thread i think. Ceci n'est pas vrai, Tony?

thats called shooting themselves in the foot, if the schranz guys didnt get like all their mates, and their brothers, and their mates brothers into releasing and ultimately saturating their own scene so much then they wouldnt have a reason to be so worried

its all techno, people really shouldnt be so worried about what other people are calling music

like what you like, play what you play, make what you make and anyone insecure enough to worry about what people are calling the music should probably go and have a rethink anyway

[loopdon]

oh hell, I was hoping for a good beef.. what, no one?
nevermind, I'll go to some hiphop board then :cheese:

now everyone will think I'm defending schranz, but its just that I dont fancy spitting on the whole genre.

Kvitta has this new label called Bullshit and most tracks - for me - are so far really bad. But that same dude released some killer tracks aswell (like "Wild West") and he's releasing more every so often + he's crazy behind decks, you want someone to rock the place with really really hard stuff, he's your man.
heard some new record by Minupren too, but didnt like it at all, I was like "whos going to buy this?!". on the other hand, I find his "Naak symphony" really good, specially if you want to tear the place apart. so you see, you can't tell me there's no good stuff there.

and my friends know my attitude best when they're about to release or play something I dont like. yes, its different, they also know the way I'm thinking and that theres no plain negativity in my words. with internet boards its not that easy, you really have to be careful when typing sometimes... and I would really like for BOA to be opened for everyone and grow even bigger. I want to see more people here, more topics about good new releases, more debates, more reports from good parties.. more of every bloody thing due to which we love this damn music so much

i like your attitude, mate!

i aggree we should make BOA open for everyone and then sort out the jerks. if it got out of hand we could always put the registration limitation up again, imo. but that is Mark's forum and therefore i am none to decide it.. it would surely help the production forum :)

[The Overfiend]

Ok.

Here's my synopsis.
As far as the whole closing the Glenn Wilson thread, any personal professional business he or anyone else here has could and should be handled behind closed doors. Not because I am a label mate or friend of his, because I am being a moderator. I could have gone off the deep end and given my opinion on the situation, but I chose to act as a moderator.

As far as the making this thread a sticky.
I felt it necessary to show the ideas and consensus among fellow producers.
Not just Hard Techno producers but producers in general.
Including some from detroit and others with huge names not to be disclosed.
If 5% of a group tries to define the rest of the whole there is still a 95TH percentile of the group that would like to have a say as to what is defined as what.
If schranz sounded like the Liebing/Walter work of the 90's then I am sure there would be no objection from the whole as to that being defined as Hard Proper Techno.
But as black and white as it may seem there is a line between schranz and techno.
I never said there was not good schranz out there.
What I have heard from the Protocast label is quite quite impressive, some of Arkus P's work is really good. Same for the new Amok mix and the material I have heard from Matame. So to say I have a bias is unfair.
What I do find is that I agree with Dsp whole heartedly.
Five percent of a whole do not have the right to define the whole.

[eyeswithoutaface]

it was handled behind closed doors, but sometimes it takes a little nudge in public to get someone to listen up, and lo and behold it worked and my problem is on its way to being sorted, very amicably indeed too surprisingly. It wouldnt of been had i not posted what i did, thats a fact.

as for the rest, bah, no one has the "right" to define anything, and people really shouldnt worry, just do what you do and keep putting records out, cant really do much more than that, as much as this sticky does make sense, there is hardly a wave of shcranz producers on here who are all gonna stand up and take notice, its basically preaching to an empty pew

[The Overfiend]

And how would you know that?
Blackout is a sea of screen names.
You would be quite surprized to know who dwells around here.
So you stating I am preaching to an open pew is purely your own personal opinion.