The Means ? Or The Ends ?

[module]

which is more important ?

the actual tune & groove ? or the split frequency of the high end ?

sick to the back teeth of ppl on high horses going on & on about f**king production..

WHO F**KING CARES ????

ppl need to let go of the means & become interested in the ends..

screw pcs.. give everyone a 909 & S2000 see who can cook up a good tune..

can we please get back to makin summat to dance to & forget about who has the most vsti's please ?

[rhythmtech]

the tune is most important. without a tune all you have is polished production ala westlife.

[module]

i been going thru lots of old old techno the last few months.. and some of it is sooo blistering & raw.. really urgent & you can hear the 909s about to cave in. thats all those guys had & they squeezed the f**k out of every last bit of kit they had.

now, its jus a d'load away & you can have all the tools, so ppl seem caught up in polish & shine & all that bo&&ocks & totally missing the point..

THE MUSIC!

maybe its jus me.. maybe i'm old, but all this 'theres a hole at blah blah frequency' is utter bulls**t. who cares if its a bit ropey.. really, given half the pa's ppl have to contend with.

go listen to 'My Definition of House' by Dj Hell. grim grim terrible sound. but what a tune. and what a hook.. i mean, its f**king lethal on any rig. but if that tune came out today, it would be s;ammed by everyone as 'amateur crap.. prob made on Reason... pffft' type s**t.

and yes, there is an argument about 'well, if it came out today, by todays standards it IS bad & therefore blah blah' but really, what does this achieve ? nothing. outdside of a few ppl elevating themselves & looking down noses, it is good for NOTHING!

ok, if i a kid in abedroom makes a track with bad highs, thats fiune. nelp him, by all means, but dont dissect the guy frequency by frequency. and if its in a style you dont dig, thats cool, you dont have to lay on the abuse. like all the Schranz bashing that went on... which then has been replaced by Minimil Bashing..

i mean, really... wtf ??? is this a scene or a f**king playground lol is it a community or a classroom ?


i may come across badly in gettin my message across, but i believe there are those that know what i'm gettin at...

and, this is not a bash at SOS, but the thread about 'schranz v techno' is soooo playground.. what is the point ? other than to bash other ppls views & opinions ?





i dont intend to offend or upset anyone with this, but i need to say it somewhere. and i feel this is prob the best place for it to be heard.

can we PLEASE get back to the music ? and drop the one up manship ?

[dirty_bass]

Nope, old stuff was still produced well.

these kind of comments generally come from people who are frustrated at their level of production.

[herman]

Nope, old stuff was still produced well.

these kind of comments generally come from people who are frustrated at their level of production.

This is the truth ;)

[module]

Nope, old stuff was still produced well.

these kind of comments generally come from people who are frustrated at their level of production.

hate to burst your bubbles but.. its not actually about production, its about ppls attitude towards it..

and that type of comment is EXACTLY the type of thing i'm gettin at... thanx :lol:

[dan the acid man]

of course the groove of the tune is important, and yeah, i've bought lots of records that are rough around the edges, but as a producer, why would you not want to get better at the art of producing ?

surely it's human nature to want to better yourself.

Yeah it's easy to get tied up in all of that, and then lose focus of actually writing a decent piece of music to accompany the polished sound, but surely the aim is to have both in a finished product.

[module]

dan, everything you say is correct, i'm talking about the criticisms levelled at producers.

and i aint talking bout me. ive done nowt since maybe december.. gettin married changed everything for me :)

i'm talkin bout ppl knocking work pureky on production basis. yes, we all want to be better, but a shiney finish aint everything.. imo ;)

[dan the acid man]

i hear that, but i cant say i've ever seen or heard anybody slating a tune just for the production quality.

Constructive criticism is always needed

[crime]

when you have access to so many plug ins, its very easy to try and polish a turd.... instead of giving up with a shit idea and coming up with something else...

[A.P.]

Go on module, i know exactly where your coming from mate!

[The Overfiend]

when you have access to so many plug ins, its very easy to try and polish a turd.... instead of giving up with a shit idea and coming up with something else...

Agreed

[The Overfiend]

ok, if i a kid in abedroom makes a track with bad highs, thats fiune. nelp him, by all means, but dont dissect the guy frequency by frequency. and if its in a style you dont dig, thats cool, you dont have to lay on the abuse. like all the Schranz bashing that went on... which then has been replaced by Minimil Bashing..

i mean, really... wtf ??? is this a scene or a f**king playground lol is it a community or a classroom ?


i may come across badly in gettin my message across, but i believe there are those that know what i'm gettin at...

and, this is not a bash at SOS, but the thread about 'schranz v techno' is soooo playground.. what is the point ? other than to bash other ppls views & opinions ?

i dont intend to offend or upset anyone with this, but i need to say it somewhere. and i feel this is prob the best place for it to be heard.

can we PLEASE get back to the music ? and drop the one up manship ?

No one man up ship going on whatsoever on my part.
I do not think I am any better than the next man.
I practice my craft daily and still know I have a lot to learn.
I do agree wit mac, the producers of yester year on hardware, did know quite a bit about what they were doing.

[The Overfiend]

this is not a bash at SOS, but the thread about 'schranz v techno' is soooo playground.. what is the point ? other than to bash other ppls views & opinions ?

I want you to quote me and show where I did that.

[dirty_bass]

I can`t see constructive critisism and actually taking time to analyse and offer suggestions to someone as anything other than good.

Any musician wants to be better, and the studio is the instrument of techno.

even the sex pistols were well produced.

Techno has got woefully bad levels of production these days, mainly do to the ease of access to technology and the "just mash loops together" simplicity in making average techno.


In any other scene, drum and bass, minimal etc I`ve ever looked at, the general level of critique is much higher, and people are really jumped on, so tend not to let their music out until it is of a higher standard.

It`s not hard to produce well, it merely takes patience and hard work and time spent. everybody wants something for nothing and an easy ride these days, a quick fix.

Anyone can make music these days, and sure the tune is THE most important part of the whole production. But a professional level of production lifts it above the increasing sea of average.

I don`t know any good artist who wouldn`t want to improve, and those that moan when confronted with critisism are generally those who think they have learned everything.

The main thing I have learned in production, is that, there is always more to learn, and more to strive for.

[rhythmtech]

I can`t see constructive critisism and actually taking time to analyse and offer suggestions to someone as anything other than good.

i agree totally. if it wasnt for constructive criticism from the likes of steve and others on here i would have releases lined up at the moment and i'm very grateful for that so i try to give back to this site and newer producers with some of my own constructive criticism BUT i do see where module is coming from...

i've noticed it myself in the production filez section (and probably been guilty of it) where a good tune made by someone without good production skills goes unnoticed but the bad production of it is put under the spotlight. maybe in future we should put a pros/cons reply?

techno (all) producers, by the very essence of our music, should want to better their skills but when it comes down to it the tune is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

[rhythmtech]

*that shoulda read "wouldn't have releases lined up"


EDIT BUTTON PLEASE MARK!!!!!!!

[holotropik]

Some tunes are made to be durty.
Some tunes are made to be fine.

The production behind both these tunes is of the same never-ending improvement.

But, yeah....some peeps do go too far in their analysing of a tune. There has been much bitchiness involved.
Competition...??
Clique...??
Dont worry about it, just keep going.

[Jay Pace]

Part of the problem is that if you don't like the tune or if it does nothing for you then all you have to comment on is the production.

So production gets singled out. Its something everyone can comment on.
The quality of the tune itself will be a matter of personal taste.

[fatcollective]

which is more important ?

the actual tune & groove ? or the split frequency of the high end ?

sick to the back teeth of ppl on high horses going on & on about f**king production..

WHO F**KING CARES ????

ppl need to let go of the means & become interested in the ends..

screw pcs.. give everyone a 909 & S2000 see who can cook up a good tune..

can we please get back to makin summat to dance to & forget about who has the most vsti's please ?

i think a good mixture of the both areas is needed, obviously the track has to be dance worthy, but it makes all the diffrence if it sounds good too!!