P&D deals?

[Mindful]

Hi:)

If anybody could give me any kind of infomation on P&D record deals I would be very very greatfull.
Any good links to places that do them(electronic and techno)
Any advice or comments from anybody who has a deal.
Pros and cons and anything to do with them.

I ask on this place because I know some of you guys have them and you like techno so yknow:)

Ive been looking on the net but finding it quite hard to find many that do techno so as I say any links would be great.

Thanks in advance.

[Dustin Zahn]

P&D deals are nearly a thing of the past. Most distributors do them for some people, but those people (medium to big names) generally are safe-bets. If you're lucky, know the right people, and have promising music you can probably still score a P&D.

The positive thing about P&Ds is obviously...your checkbook isn't at stake right away. If your release bombs and ends up costing money, the distributor is going to come knocking on your door. Another nice thing about P&D deals is it may be less work in general. This means the distributor will either do the work or have a company like "Handle With Care" do all the organizing for you (getting it cut, send to pressing plant, send the printing plant the decals, etc.). You'll still be responsible for promoting your label, A&R, and the rest of that jazz.

The negative side: Your profits are split in half (on avg) with the distributor, you have less control over the physical production, some distributors demand/suggest a certain amount of control or say over the label, and finally...if the distributor goes down (i.e. Prime), good luck getting any outstanding balances, your masters, and the rights to your music!

Now, a lot of the above details are negotiable with distributors but I'm willing to bet the deal would be very similar.

[Sunil]

Veto did a call out not so long ago for new labels, and mentioned that P&D deals are still sometimes considered.

You could mail Neil at neil@veto.co.uk to see.

[Ritzi Lee]

Much is allready mentioned above.
Not hard to understand.

It's just up 2 you if you can convince the distro your music is potentially good enough for a P&D deal.

[MARKEG]

P&D deals are nearly a thing of the past. Most distributors do them for some people, but those people (medium to big names) generally are safe-bets. If you're lucky, know the right people, and have promising music you can probably still score a P&D.

The positive thing about P&Ds is obviously...your checkbook isn't at stake right away. If your release bombs and ends up costing money, the distributor is going to come knocking on your door. Another nice thing about P&D deals is it may be less work in general. This means the distributor will either do the work or have a company like "Handle With Care" do all the organizing for you (getting it cut, send to pressing plant, send the printing plant the decals, etc.). You'll still be responsible for promoting your label, A&R, and the rest of that jazz.

The negative side: Your profits are split in half (on avg) with the distributor, you have less control over the physical production, some distributors demand/suggest a certain amount of control or say over the label, and finally...if the distributor goes down (i.e. Prime), good luck getting any outstanding balances, your masters, and the rights to your music!

Now, a lot of the above details are negotiable with distributors but I'm willing to bet the deal would be very similar.

great advice dustin... i wish i had this advice from the start heh :)

[Dustin Zahn]

great advice dustin... i wish i had this advice from the start heh :)

Shit, me too! I'm still paying off debts. :)

[Ritzi Lee]

Offcourse it's still your choice how many records you wan't your distribution to press.
If you tell them "Hell, give me 2000 records" you can bring yourself in a lot of shit!
So don't get to excited, and have some self responsibility.

[Mindful]

Thank you very much people:)

[module]

whats the average pressing/selling number these days ?

afaik, it used to be around 1000-1500 but the last few years average presings are down to 500-750.

is it easier or harder to get on digital/mp3 P&D ? the likes of Beatport or Juno ?

[dirty_bass]

mp3 P&D
erm, am I missing something?
You make the tunes, you give them to the digital vendor, they take their cut.

why would you need a P&D?

I don`t think there is an average pressing/selling number for techno these days. It seems pretty random by all accounts.
Sales in the minimal arena run up to 10,000
Bish bash techno goes from 500 to 1500 roughly, but I`ve heard claims of techno techno still selling 5-10,000

[module]

DB, i mean webspace & pr & such. ive heard that its not jus a csae of giving the company your trax, you have to have a product they are willing to push & put on site etc. though i do get ya to an extent, like, they dont have to hold physical product, where as MP3 is virtual, hence no warehouse space or shipping issues.

might seem like a stupid question to someone who is dealing with labels of their own & such, but to a peasent like me, if ya dont ask, ya dont find out :)

[dirty_bass]

Well some vendors will only accept mp3 from established names and labels.
Others will take anything.
I think juno will pretty much sell anything as far as I can work out.

[thetonewrecka]

I poured a plate of spaghetti on the scanner, made a picture, converted it to mp3 and Juno sold 48 copies for me.

In all honesty, Beatport told me they weren't interested in my music, or the label to be offered on their site. I'm converting all tracks now to little music boxes (it's a bitch to get the bass tones on those little pins that go around the steel roller!) and I'll keep them in the woodshed out back. Anyone who wants to hear a tune can go back there, lay in the hammock under the towering oak trees, and sway in the breeze while holding the little box as it plays.

What was this thread about?? oh P&D ... Friday afternoon is no time to talk business.

[Dustin Zahn]

In all honesty, Beatport told me they weren't interested in my music, or the label to be offered on their site.

Yeah, they have a very interesting work ethic I guess. It's all about marketing apparently. I actually just signed some contracts for beatport yesterday, but previously I was rejected 3 times. This time worked out for various reasons.

MP3 sales sadly seem to be increasingly popular but once again I think the whole market for that is a bit ****ed. Once Beatport built a decent size, few sites wanted to challenge it, or they just don't have the capitol to do so.

I don`t think there is an average pressing/selling number for techno these days. It seems pretty random by all accounts.
Sales in the minimal arena run up to 10,000
Bish bash techno goes from 500 to 1500 roughly, but I`ve heard claims of techno techno still selling 5-10,000

There is usually a minimum though. Many distributors won't deal with anything below 500 copies. A lot of the minimal kids are claiming they're selling 3,000 records but speaking to the distributors I can confirm a lot of them are full of shit. I'd say your average minimal record is probably going to sell around 600-1500 copies. That's just a guess on my limited knowledge of what some average labels are doing.

As for hard techno, it's really ****ing hard for a hard techno release to do more than 500 copies these days unless it's some sort of Intec kind of crap. The biggest heavier labels that used to be selling 10,000 copies are more like 1,500-2,000 tops now like DB said. These days I think the only way a harder record is going to sell 10,000 copies again is to be an anthem track like Murder Was the Bass or something. Realistically, if you're going to put out a hard techno record you're most likely going to lose money. If you're lucky you can make a hundred euros or something.

[Miromiric]

mirko`s magical formula - the shitier the record is the more copies you are likely to sell.

[lissajou]

it's been some time since i've checked, tho ages ago,

http://www.undergroundmusic.co.uk

once did this sort of thing.

they're beautiful to be with,
assuming you're not expecting
any sort of profit...