Why Vinyl WILL Die ;)

[Stella Boy]

bring back 2 decks with a 2 channel mixer - not all these newfangle thingymajigs everyone seems to harp on about.

[yeswehavetheright]

Ableton is of course the dogs danglies, but at the end of the day it's all about having fun with what you're doing. Playing vinyl records on the decks is great fun! Having a good old mixing session with your mates just isn't the same if you're all taking it in turns to have a go on the laptop. As long as people enjoy playing records then there'll be a place in the market place for vinyl (even though it may not be as lucrative as it was 10 years ago).

[Spire]

Oh fuucckkk... now I've done it. I said ALL the wrong things didn't I. Hahahahaha. Oooopppss!

your talking about doing away with the backbone of a whole scene, if anything was to kill a scene that relies so heavily on djing it would be that. Techno IS about performance now. Always has been. Dj'ing taken beyond just mixing one tune into another. You honestly saying the likes of Ruskin, Sims, Clarke, Carl Cox etc are not performers? These guys are capable of using deck's in ways other's simply cannot even rationalise in their heads at times, the music may not be what your into all the time, but there is no denying that techno is a scene that practically thrives on performance, week in week out. There are hundreds of people playing live sets, live pa's etc and people like Underground Resistance who play as whole 8 piece bands, check out Los Hermanos, Galaxy To Galaxy etc etc

This thread is not about needing to enhance the visual aspect in techno, it's just the age old format wars thread, the classic "vinyl - will it ever die or not" debate. The answer is yes, it will, probably not in our lifetime, but as a non-renewable energy source, oil will 100% definately run out one day, and so will it's by products.

I'm just approaching the 'vinyl sales are down' idea. You're right, the entire dance scene was created entirely around vinyl. I was wrong to say that stepping away from DJing will fix anything at all. Sorry ;x Sometimes I say shit just to stir up conversation. But yeah, I know there are plenty of live acts and DJs that actually do good performances.

I'm not saying we need to enhance the visual aspect. People hate laptops on stage and vinyl makes everyone cream their panties. I'm not trying to say Ableton is going to save the techno scene, but all these vinyl purists need to embrace it already because they're only helping stagnation of techno itself. And SHIT, I'm not all about Ableton, replace 'live acts' in place of Ableton on my posts.

Are you playing devils advocate here or do you really believe that?

Both really. DJing is not killing techno. I'm saying the lack of creativity on the spot besides "this track mixed with this track with this effect and some beat juggling will be cool as I'm waving my arms around to the crowd" is killing techno. I'm not saying Ableton is a movement all on it's own, but the idea behind it is exactly what techno needs to move forward. (I know I know live acts have been around for ages... ::::)

ANYWAY, back on topic. Vinyl WILL NOT die. MP3s and WAVs WILL ESPECIALLY NOT die. Techno MIGHT die. Minimal MIGHT EAT techno. Oil is going to be here for QUITE A BIT. And last but not least, DO WHAT YOU DO AND **** THE HATERS! :D

[eyeswithoutaface]

hmmm well hardly the best way to keep what was a good debate going "sometimes i shit just to stir up conversation" come on you have good valid points, if a little contradicting of themselves at times, so there's really not much need to antagonise a thread that's actually rolling along nicely for what it is ;)

and technically, factually, globally, logically Vinyl will one day die. Mp3's and WAV's are still relatively new born babies considering. Techno might die your right, but i dont see it, it's still relatively young in terms of shelf life. Minimal will definately eat techno and wash it down with a nice glass of schranz. Oil will be here quite a bit yes, but it's not finite, it will run out one day. And i agree do what you do and **** the haters, that's always been my motto

:)

[Sunil]

Eh?

Being a good DJ is having the ability to do all of these things. Knowing your music inside out is great and really helps.. but having the ability to quickly preview a record and make a decision about the set there and then is an essential skill too.

?

Had a feeling you'd say something like that.

Listen, any of us can quickly preview a record and play it there and then... that's not the point. The point is the author's stupid 'boast' of playing four hours of new promos he got that week or whatever it is. To me that's that's a load of bullcrap, although to him it's probably being really 'fresh' or something :roll:

[Sunil]

bring back 2 decks with a 2 channel mixer - not all these newfangle thingymajigs everyone seems to harp on about.

haha, yeah! A nice Made2Fade mixer with no eqs on it, well er...maybe not :)

[massplanck]

Had a feeling you'd say something like that.

Listen, any of us can quickly preview a record and play it there and then... that's not the point. The point is the author's stupid 'boast' of playing four hours of new promos he got that week or whatever it is. To me that's that's a load of bullcrap, although to him it's probably being really 'fresh' or something :roll:

Yeah Sunil. But now ye are only arguing about the pedantics of what this guy said in his first paragraph. Its got nothing to do with the actual debate. The fact yes maybe he is a clown has sweet f'all to do with the whole vinyl vs minidisk vs brown bread thingy.

Da Phuture 4 Techno Releases = digital distribution along side a few small vinyl runs for the collecters and audiophiles. That is as long as the vinyl can pay for itself. Or maybe the savings made by going digital could help finance these 'runs'.

Abeleton sucks cock for djing (for me anyway... warping is really bent when its not boom boom music).. + another 50 reasons.

Serato Scracth & Final Scratch on the other hand do not suck cock at all at all . Its just a case of the guy behind the decks not playing out shitty bit rate mp3's. Ie... he should have access to all the techno\electronic music in the world ever recorded & encoded at 320kbps\FLAC\ or Wav. Right now he's getting his shitty quality mp3's from from slsk but thats because, well.. where's the ****ing leadership from this crazy phuture-forward-thinking-scene called techno?

[Sunil]

Well, I offered my opinion on the debate ages ago... that last post was just a seperate thing.

Personally I think this vinyl debate is ridiculous at this stage, so I'm not getting too involved.

Should I hang onto your records you've got here btw? Now that you're an FS2 man? ;)

[Spire]

Minimal will definately eat techno and wash it down with a nice glass of schranz.

Hahahaha

[massplanck]

Should I hang onto your records you've got here btw? Now that you're an FS2 man? ;)

yuo can burn them if you want. just make sure to record & encode them at 320kbps and take a picture of the cover of them for me.

Anyway.. does anyone know what the difference between Serato & Final Scratch is? Final Scratch had its teething problems in earlier versions but i'm not sure which has the edge right now since 2 came out? Please tell me. I must buy one or the other..

Anyway the clincher for me was being able to buy\steal my entire set from bleep\slsk on thursday, practice friday & wipe\empty the floor on saturday. Still there is a lot to be said about having to lug 2400 euros worth of flimsy equipment (laptop etc) around just to play a dj set .

One BAD thing about bleep is that the lazy cunts dont even bother to supply you with jpgs/artwork or txt files with the download mp3s. Thats stupid. Espically if i am paying 10 euro for an album on mp3.

That said.. a few do do it right. Prion bought some new CockRockDisco release from their site last week and it even had .ASD files for Abelton bundled with it. Nice. (if you like djing with ableton that is)

[module]

there are a lot of opinions here.. and opinion isnt fact, its preference, hence, this 'debate' could go on forever..

personally, i'm glad things have moved & opened up. when i started djing, the idea of a 3 band eq on a mixer was pretty fresh.. now ? if ya turned up for a gig & its any less than a DJM600, you would cackle & sneer..

to me, 'techno' is a shortening of the word 'technology' and as such, we should ALL embrace & move forward. Ableton, imo, has caused more of a stir on the world of dance music than any other tool in the last ten years.. and THATS a monumental incident in itself.

i used to be a hardware & vinyl purist.. but things change, and i think they MUST change or we jus stagnate & go round & round in the same manner for ever.. i LIKE change, even if i dont agree with it, it MUST keep happening, or we jus get stuck in a loop & end up going nowhere.

[RDR]

Eh?

Being a good DJ is having the ability to do all of these things. Knowing your music inside out is great and really helps.. but having the ability to quickly preview a record and make a decision about the set there and then is an essential skill too.

?

Had a feeling you'd say something like that.

Listen, any of us can quickly preview a record and play it there and then... that's not the point. The point is the author's stupid 'boast' of playing four hours of new promos he got that week or whatever it is. To me that's that's a load of bullcrap, although to him it's probably being really 'fresh' or something :roll:

pray tell why sunil? ;)

People like to play new things its true. to me that just smacks of laziness, just as much as knwoing things backwards... in both cases the tune works for the DJ not the DJ for the tune.

Which brings up a good point. DJs are meant to be interactive people or people with vision, whatever method is used is fine by me. LIVe sets IMo are only going to come of age when the technology and the ability combine to produce the TOTALLY freeform scenario. i.e. jazz type performances, using SEQUENCERS. because that is the heritage of the DJ a world based around music by ear and timing by hand. The sequencer is the dj/the dj is the sequencer.

Most things are a means to and end. i for one will be perfectly happy to ditch vinyl if i can use a device that reacts exactly like a 1210. feel and EVerythng. i dont mean final scratch or whatever because i hate them. even though ive used them plenty. just personal taste.

As for the time mp3/cd has been around.. i know what you are saying scott, but you dont go far enough man, the history of RECORDED music, and furthermore, recorded music available at low end consumer formats, is VERy VERYVERY short. we are jst at the beginning, personally im REALLY excited to be here right now and cant wait to see what the future holds for the human/electornic performance interface.

ooopps... tangent, there.

OT - I love vinyl! the smell, the feel, those little bits of white paper stuck to it when you unseal a 12" SWEET!

[module]

the one thing i DO miss about vinyl, is buying it in a store.. online shopping isnt the same for me, theres no relationship with the guys who work in the shop, guys who KNOW what sound ya dig & help ya get the tunes ya want & need.. i used to love going to Mixmaster every day of the week about 1.30-2pm & gettin the first look at the new batch..

[Sunil]

It's brilliant getting a great new record and slamming it on that day or weekend. Everyone loves that. And on that point also, I actually think the physical action of fetching a record from my bag and throwing it on is what I love most about vinyl, it can't be underestimated!

I guess my reading of a lot of the people that only play new music is that they're just involved in a back scratching exercise with friends, labels and promotions companies... and are doing it to ultimately just to feel 'upfront' and continue getting free music - a lot of these people wouldn't even dream of going to a record shop and some rarely buy any music at all. We all like free music from time to time, and when you get something amazing it's great... but 'digging' and searching is what seperates you from the next person, and what's more fulfilling than finding a great record or something you were after, in a record shop?

Nothing.

[Sunil]

pray tell why sunil? ;)

Eh, I dunno... DJ's Intuition ;)

[Sam_Horam]

You all think about stuff way too much...

Just enjoy it...

I love vinyl, there's nothing like putting a piece of wax on for the first time. But if everyone stops releasing vinyl then I'll have to adapt and start buying mp3s or whatever format starts becoming dominant.

Just stop thinking about it and enjoy it the music...[/b]

[Sam_Horam]

why don't we have an edit button?

[Si the Sigh]

You all think about stuff way too much...

Just enjoy it...

I love vinyl, there's nothing like putting a piece of wax on for the first time. But if everyone stops releasing vinyl then I'll have to adapt and start buying mp3s or whatever format starts becoming dominant.

Just stop thinking about it and enjoy it the music...[/b]

Spot on mate, my thoughts exactly.

Now everyone else STFU! :lol:

[Spire]

None of us are worried, we just want to prove somebody wrong. >;D

[Jay Pace]

[quote="massplanck"]

Anyway.. does anyone know what the difference between Serato & Final Scratch is? Final Scratch had its teething problems in earlier versions but i'm not sure which has the edge right now since 2 came out? Please tell me. I must buy one or the other.

FS2 is the bomb. Especially as you can buy the full version of Traktor 3 fro about £60 at the mo - and then you have 4 decks, FX and a virtual xone 92 built in. Admittedly never use the virtual mixer, prefer the real thing but its a nice to have.

Serato is very good by all accounts, but doesn't have the interface that FS2 has. FS1 was a bit flimsy, and a little unstable but FS2 is rock solid.

Serato is more for turntablists. You can still scratch like fury on Final Scratch, but the strong points are the software interface, the stability and partenrship with Native Instruments.

Buy final scratch.