Loud or Accurate???

[MorePunkThanFunk]

want some opinions on this please.

been having problems with the latest release because to have the tracks sounding on vinyl as the producer intended them would mean taking a 4-5db cut on the record volume,

would you rather your record was 5db louder or had a more accurate sound and was quieter???

[dan the acid man]

i'd say accurate, youc an always turn the fader up on the mixer

[theledge]

Yeah i'd say accurate if there was going to be a significant drop in quality

As dan says you shouldn't be playing your rekkids so loud you can't edge the levels up a little

[MARKEG]

i really hate quiet pressings and in the end it can mean i can't play it. it doesn't have to be super loud but i reckon you've gotta make a comprommise somewhere ;)

[crime]

you can really wreck a good track by compressing the fu ck out of it.....

[crime]

you can get more volume by compromising on track length though.. if you want really super loud trax without having to edit the track length down just go for one track a side at 45 rpm...

[module]

mmmm... pushing gain up can highlight needle rumble... and given the quality of the average pa..

personally, i would go for loudness, but thats jus a preference.

[crime]

mmmm... pushing gain up can highlight needle rumble... and given the quality of the average pa..

personally, i would go for loudness, but thats jus a preference.

yes, but the initial question indicates that the trax are quite dynamic, and the intended way of making the cut louder would be to compress quite a bit...

I think MPTF needs to be more specific with the question, what's the problem with the mastering? are you trying to squeeze 4 7 minute trax on to an e.p.? are they tracks with heavy bass that comes in and out?

I suggest reading through this thoroughly, and bearing it in mind before your trax are taken to the cutting room: http://www.recordtech.com/prodsounds.htm

and another point which has bothered me for some time is covered in this sound on sound article: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug0...rmastering.htm

the point being:

Mastering For Vinyl.......In the old days, recording engineers were well aware of the limitations of vinyl, and took them into account during the recording process. Many of today's engineers were brought up in an essentially vinyl-less world, and don't consider the problems discussed above. This makes it more important than ever to use a mastering engineer who is an expert in the art. When it comes to mastering for vinyl, the advice is simple: don't try this at home!

[holotropik]

The main reason I never liked vinyl....I wont compromise dynamics.

[module]

my point is the average pa WONT let those dynamivs thru.. sure, on your studio monitors, the full range will be there to hear in its glory, but most club pa's arent THAT sweet.

either way, i have no experience, so i would def go with Crime or EG.. maybe even send the file to a few of these guys to see what they think ?

[Fusion]

louder is better

[crime]

louder is better

Always?
Why?

generally pays to know what you're talking about before offering advice
;)
*queue pointless forum argument* :cheese:

[Fusion]

louder is better

Always?
Why?

generally pays to know what you're talking about before offering advice
;)
*queue pointless forum argument* :cheese:

from strictly a dj point of view - i'd rather have the pressing louder than dynamic. especially when it comes to a MPTF release. anywhere people would drop a MPTF record the audience would be thumping about anyway ... it wouldn't matter

now - if you were talking about a label doing minimal or atmospheric type stuff ... then i would say go for the dynamic

is that a better explaination for you?

[TechMouse]

*queue pointless forum argument* :cheese:

Cue, Mark... (call yourself a DJ ;))

[module]

tbh, i always did prefer louder. i remember gettin old Soma compilations that were so low, it was next to impossible to play them out they sounded so bad at high volume.

but again, thats jus a personal preference.

[crime]

louder is better

Always?
Why?

generally pays to know what you're talking about before offering advice
;)
*queue pointless forum argument* :cheese:

from strictly a dj point of view - i'd rather have the pressing louder than dynamic. especially when it comes to a MPTF release. anywhere people would drop a MPTF record the audience would be thumping about anyway ... it wouldn't matter

now - if you were talking about a label doing minimal or atmospheric type stuff ... then i would say go for the dynamic

is that a better explaination for you?

yes, it is a better explanation, but the point is, you cannot change the laws of physics.. I would love to have 2 7 minute trax on one side of vinyl deep cut really loud, but that is physically not possible on vinyl... something has to give somewhere, and it's either going to mean a drop in volume, edit a few minutes out of the track, or compress the fu ck out of it which will mean that the volume of any breaks will be raised significantly, and if you have sub bass in there it's going to drop the level of the whole thing, and make it sound shitty... just saying "Louder is better" doesn't help someone who is asking this kind of question, obviously as a dj you want nice loud pressings to play out, but as a producer/label owner, do you really want to sacrifice the clarity of something just to make it louder for loudness sake? on top of that, once a record is played on a loud PA I personally don't think you will notice vinyl noise so much as you would on studio monitors or a hi-fi at home...
I mean, I personally don't know what this label is like, if it's just pounding loops, then maybe you can just compress the hell out of it.... :roll:
and yeah, I was thinking of the Queue/Cue mistake earlier, I think my brain is a jumble of 3 different languages right now :)

[fils_here]

i really hate quiet pressings and in the end it can mean i can't play it. it doesn't have to be super loud but i reckon you've gotta make a comprommise somewhere ;)

me too.

[Mindful]

you cannot change the laws of physics..

Anyways
Yeah I would prefere somthing a little more dynamic myself but it depends on the songs in question I guess.
Off kinda knowing what kind of sound MPTF has been so far and having not heard the tracks in question, I would say Loud.

Is it the artist himself who is not happy with how the master has turned out? If this is the case then you must reach a comprimise I would say.
Personaly myself, I hate having to loose dynamics for loudness but it has to be done somtimes to keep up with most other techno records.

Thanks for the links by the way Crime: )

[dirty_bass]

I hate that the crushed, overcompressed wall of sound from techno of the 99-2001 era has become the norm.
Don`t care what it is as long as it is loud.

Long live music.

[MARKEG]

this is turning into a real interesting discussion...

crushed in my book is a no go these days. it was fine whilst it lasted, but tbh it's easy to slap on a L2 maximiser, square the waveform and i wannna hear the dynamics in my music right now. i think most ppl who appreciate good music do too.

there is a real artform in mastering. i have spent the last 10 years studying it and i still don't know what the hell i'm talking about :lol:

when you tell me there needs to be a 4-5 db cut in volume to make it like the producer intended it, i have to question that.

that means the peaks in the track are 4-5db louder than the lowest volume. i mean let's be honest - isn't that just going to sound SHIT? think about it, you're gonna mix it into the track on a sound system to match the track that's playing. sure there's gonna be limiters on the sound system, compressors, but when that sound starts to peak - everything is going to be crushed horrible. 4-5 db is a hell of alot.

you simple HAVE to try to level shit out - especiallly with club/sound system music. ii personally think 2 db is good - cause you keep the dynamic without having to resort to rocket science hehehe but i have heard some amazing mastering from some really talented ppl that will get it alot less than that.

i thiink here mate, if you're really not understanding the art fully, you need to give the track to someone who does. i think chris mccormack is doing a mastering service right now, can't rememeber the web addy (anyone????), but it's worth a go surely???????????????????????

otherwise, pm me and i'll have a go for ya. i might not be the best eh, but i might get it a little better for ya :)