How to take hard techno forward

[MARKEG]

From another topic, I found a question that really matters to me. So I thought it good to start another topic :)

Dustin said: The whole compression and dark loop shit kinda ran itself thin. 'I still love that stuff ', he said, 'but I admit it was getting a little tired. Hard techno is slowly on the rebound but I think it will come back in more of an old school form'

Interesting words....

So I replied:

dustin, you've been spot on with your comments recently. i've felt this alot recently too. i wouldn't say an old school form, cause at the end of the day if we all go old school we're not going forward eh heh, but i would say it's a step back to old school to go forward. i've been listening to alot of minimal recently and trying to apply that to a harder sound but with old school influences. get rid of those blasted loops, distortion, hard house samples and just get down to basics.



OK so help us out here. Whether you're producer or just dancefloor addict. We need everyone's opinions on this. How do we take this forward? Or am i thinking too much??? waaaaaaa :)

[The Overfiend]

By doing what is in your heart
Not what's being dictated in your ear
Whats the hot not new or now shit
If producers did more of what they wanted
Had distributors letting them do them
Shit might be a little bit more diversified free formed even
Distros run the gamut to what ultimately comes out it seems
Taking Hard Techno forward would be to let the Hard techno producers run amuck and do what the **** we wanted to.
Some unbelievable shit might come out of it.

[MARKEG]

Had distributors letting them do them

There's the quote of the century. Would be g8 to have the distro's let ppl do what they want but they dont.

[MARKEG]

but no serious - it's all about moving forward. it stands to reason, if we all move forward to then sod everyone else. distributors don't matter cause we're move too fast ;)

come on, back to the q. how do we take this forward....

[holotropik]

Well, I know within myself I am taking new directions
and experimenting with fresh sounds and original techniques.
What becomes of that publically will be determined by who listens
likes it and wants to pick it up.

I have decided to look way outside the circle in terms of style or genre
and get back to the basic essence of what I am doing. Experiment
with techno and come up with something unique and from
me, rather than trying to sound like something else.

Its that simple for me right now...

[holotropik]

I should add that I am not onto the hard tech sound anymore.
I have wandered off into other sounds without even meaning to.
So my input wouldnt really be of use, sorry.

hehehe...another side-track for me, oh well.

[Athar]

step back to old school would be something good for techno music in my opinion.
i mean not step back and staying there,
i mean step back to get a lesson how to do it, to get some ideas from the past,
plus tools from today and will be great push up for everybody.

Sometimes when i listening old schools sounds i thinking:
"Yes it coming from times when the music was more important than the money"
Unjust thinking ? Maybe...
maybe its just my reaction for sounds or its just only missing for old school,
but defo it will be great when we can back step back to listen and compare music from today and 10-12 years ago.
and after... producing something with old school influence then :)

[jeroenliebregts]

I think the whole minimal thing is kind of a logical reaction to both technical and musical progression of the last decade or so. Since we're able(ton) to do all kinds of freaky edits on audio samples and loops (eg timestreching) a whole new world of sounds emerged that fit techno music really well. The thing we call minimal now is just a way to express these sounds in the best possible way (by not using too many layers).
Musically, I think people have grown up and are getting more and more used to electronic sound (klik klak krik krak). If this kind of minimal would have been made 15 years ago, it wouldn't have become so popular i think..
Anyway, my point is that the challenge is in combining the whole thing. How can we use complex sounds in a complex way, and still get energetic dancefloor music?
answer: Go Hiyama / Grovskopa / Rumenige & Loktibrada etc.
in my opinion the future of hard techno.

[eyeswithoutaface]

well it's not entirely the distro's fault for how thing's are, if producers keep knuckling under the pressure as it were and keep churning out what the distro's want, then the distro's will just demand more. What's known as a vicious circle. Make the break and find a distro that's smaller, and will allow free near free reign for what you want to do. Wether or not you own a label, just get in touch with the more smaller independant distro's, and if what you have to offer is truely something awesome id bet more often than not the bigger distro's will take what you have. I know exactly how it works re the "they wont take a chance on smaller names" argument, i've had my share of those troubles believe me, but so does everyone, and if you wanna get past that you gotta keep cracking at it. Either that or hook up with a bigger name who does have a bit of clout with the distro's, but even then it doesnt gaurentee sales or a popular ep.

I think too much thought just throws up more problems, and ultimately will make your tracks sound more and more like the sound your trying to get away from. I find it nice to have a serious think about old memories, club nights, magic weekends etc ive had in the past and use this as insipiration for tracks that capture emotions. Get some real music in there with the hard loops, throw out this rulebook that seem's to do the round's that states it has to be 140bpm, distorted and just consisting of uberschall loops. I mean, they are good loops in places, but they were great 5 years ago, know what i mean?

just throwout that rule book, put all your fave artists out of your mind for a few hours and thinkin that so and so is the future of hard techno, he or she is the future of hard techno and just open your sequencer, and get working. I personally dont think those names mentioned above are the future, they've been around a few years now and in all honesty their older works are much much better than what they are doing now. The point being, no one knows the future of hard techno. There could be a little guy from the back streets of darkest Russia or somewhere with these sonically blinding hard techno tracks just waiting to turn the whole thing around. I bet 6, 7 years ago people didnt think things would be how they are now, so its practically impossible to say how things will be in the future. We can all make a good estimation based on current trends of course, but no one can know for sure.

[theledge]

Exactly if you just let the distro's run things then everyone is ****ed

Use the distros to put out releases theyre happy with but we live in a digital world nowadays, you can mix off CD or final scratch or Ableton or whatever, download tracks from the internet, publish them on MySpace etc etc

Its more decentralized than it was and it should enable you to do what you want with your techno, whether its hard, minimal disco diva or whatever :)

[Sunil]

I think too much thought just throws up more problems, and ultimately will make your tracks sound more and more like the sound your trying to get away from.

Good point. It also means you end up zoning in too much on the pretty slow state of many aspects of the music and scene now. It's more productive to spend time making than thinking about what to make. The thoughts of new techniques etc. will naturally pop into your head if you have a true desire to do something new.

I find it nice to have a serious think about old memories, club nights, magic weekends etc ive had in the past and use this as insipiration for tracks that capture emotions.

For sure. There's often nothing better that kick starts a techno track for me than being out at a club, and with it still being fresh in my mind when I sit down to make music the next day.

The club scene itself will have a big bearing on the future of hard techno or the future sound, particularly as younger producers start and come through. What they hear or see in clubs, or hear from the producers of now will have a big effect...

just throwout that rule book, put all your fave artists out of your mind for a few hours

Yeah, and also the distribution thing mentioned by Tony earlier... this is a major factor in so many samey tracks and records being made today. If you make stuff without the thoughts of particular labels or distributors in your head, it will always serve as a less of a distraction, and lead you to better results. That's why not relying on selling records as a main source of income, is helpful. 'Hobby' producers should seize the advantage they have a bit more perhaps.

Being in your own zone and trying your best to be *you*... is the most important thing. Getting genuinely angry at the state of the scene and quality of a lot of hard techno, may also be a good method for making good tracks ;)

It's good you started this thread Mark, personally though I think as a journalist that a lot of the buck also stops with you. I'm not saying that you don't review good records, but I think it's important to expose the shite just as much as the bad too. Unfortunately very few mags or journalists do this enough even though it's important, especially if there's a mould that needs to be broken.

[basd]

I think a lot of todays techno has lost its soul, too much harder techno is just about being hard, too much minimal is just about sounding freaky / bleepy, etc. Too much of the recently released records I've been hearing miss that certain amount of warmth I need in order to really appreciate it.

Apart from that, I'm liking the fact that there are more and more producers breaking the four-to-the-floor beat mould and are incorporating more and more diverse beat patterns in their tracks (i.e., offbeat).

Taking these two together, I'd say my personal way forward would be offbeat techno with soul. In other words, we need more Malhela :)

[Antinoise]

Techno needs to be more 'musical'.. I mean, there is some crap out there that you can hardly even call music.. No evolving emotion. no rhythm. Its just over distorted noise.

I hate that some techno has become so loopy that to the non-techno ear it sounds like the exact same loop to them over and over again, with no variation. Making a cool 8 bar loop is not a song... but many think that a track is 90% done after the first loop is created. Where is the bloody song structure!

Speaking of the non-techno ear..... The non-techno critic is the best! If its good then you should be able to play it to anyone. IF ITS GOOD.. ITS GOOD

Taking this genre forward is looking outside of techno to learn from whats on the other side.

[machina]

Techno needs to be more 'musical'.. I mean, there is some crap out there that you can hardly even call music.. No evolving emotion. no rhythm. Its just over distorted noise.

I agree whole heartedly with this... and I think it ties in with the other threads about techno in 1994-98 and the live instrumentation thing. Things back in that era sounded far more musical and 'organic' because producers were concentrating on making music, not on making a 'sound'.

All the delays/echos/effects etc that used to be dialled up by ear until it sounded good is now all just midi-synced to precise intervals without any thought - it's sounds robotic and predictable... the natural feeling is gone.

The technical emphasis these days is IMO misguided and stupid, everyone concentrates on precision, compression, production values. Nobody seems to care about the important bits - feeling, structure, personality.


I don't know about you guys but i prefer music which is honest and lacking in production to something which is produced perfectly but is just pointless. That is, i can still get something out of a brilliant piece of music which is produced badly... i get nothing out of perfectly produced crap.

machina

[Dustin Zahn]

To blame the distributors for all problems is ridiculous. They need the artists as much as the artists need them. If your distributor doesn't have faith in you then you probably shouldn't be with them, period. Trust me...coming from a bigger family of all entreprenuers, it's much harder to sell something you don't believe in.

[sash]

too much weird shit out in the shops. Also I reckon a lot of producers r more worried about producing dj friendly tracks rather than worrying about the people out there on the dance floor.

[sash]

Speaking of the non-techno ear..... The non-techno critic is the best! If its good then you should be able to play it to anyone. IF ITS GOOD.. ITS GOOD
.

yep i agree.

Also dj's r incredibly responsible for taking hard techno forward. Some dj's just don't bring enough contrast to their sets and shit gets monotonous when all u hear is hard dark tek all night.

Event organisers r also responsible for this as well. They need to think more about the overall night and what music is to be played when and where. Really the event organiser is like a big dj on the night. If he or she just let's anybody play anything cuz they heard they were a good dj, then there's no structure to the night.

[snooch]

Alot of the hard techno artists that I buy now tend to be a bit more diverse. They tend to put out more than just hard techno on a regular basis. Check out Inigo Kenedy's website for an example with all the mp3 releases. Or people like Grovskopa. I think diversity is a big way to avoid stagnation because you have a whole other set of peers to get inspiration or influences from. I personally get alot of ideas for hard techno tracks from production styles in dub reggae. The next person may get a brainstorm for that track he/she is stuck on from listening to that old Slayer track. I could keep going on and on with examples, but you probably get it by now. Musical evolution tends to run in cycles kind of like clothing styles do. Things get lame for a while then the retro craze goes on then someone comes out with something new that starts a whole new style. Yeah hard techno is kind of stagnant right now, but I'm not afraid. Things will get better, it's human nature.

[MARKEG]

i don't think there's been one point i've disagreed with here. sort of shows me that there's alot of ppl out there thinking the same. eyes, i loved your post there BRILLIANT..... jeroen, athar, hell - EVERYONE! i think the key is to a) (first and foremost!!!!) to not rely on making music as a living b) to justget your music to those excited about it...... but as in taking the music forward - stay off the uberschall loops hahhaha!!!!! give the space between the beats!!!!!! learn synthesis!!!! learn mastering and.. we're off!!!!

:lol:

can't wait to see the future. i'm very excited how we're alll thinking right now. :)

[Sunil]

To blame the distributors for all problems is ridiculous. They need the artists as much as the artists need them. If your distributor doesn't have faith in you then you probably shouldn't be with them, period. Trust me...coming from a bigger family of all entreprenuers, it's much harder to sell something you don't believe in.

Actually, I was thinking about that after I posted. It is easy to blame distributors, but yes, probably unfair to many of them. I think the direction some distributors have taken has been disappointing, however any of the smaller ones I know do still carry and push the stuff they're into and known for.