VINYL WILL SURVIVE - Great Article!!

**Dustin Zahn** · 08-09-2006, 05:44 PM

Yeah, and you can also power cars off of maize as well. It's called E85 or Ethanol 85%. The downside is the amount of corn required. Speaking for USA terms, there isn't enough land to cultivate. Every home owner's yard in America would have to be converted into a corn field.

P.S. Yeah, one day vinyl materials could become sparse and run out in theory, but there will always be people playing and collecting old records, regardless of genre.

**TechMouse** · 08-09-2006, 05:46 PM

I think we should start melting down all the Eurotrance to conserve resources.

**Adrenalin** · 08-09-2006, 05:50 PM

And all the American pop crap. Who the hell is buying Hoovastank or Green Day on vinyl?! What a waste.

Also, a majority of todays records are pressed from RECYCLED vinyl, so the supply of materials to make records will take so long to deplete that we won't see it happen in our lifetimes or our children's lifetimes.

**Dustin Zahn** · 08-09-2006, 05:57 PM

Actually...a lot of pressing plants still claim to be pressing on virgin vinyl. I've heard of some cheap-ass nazi run establishments in Eastern Europe or something that do pressings really cheap and I think they probably recycle but thats just a guess. Plus, just because it's recycled doesn't mean it can keep being reused. Recycling processes in general are pretty inefficient but it's definitely a step in the right direction. I was talking with a certain techno/acid producer who makes his money by being the secret producer for an infamous pop remixer. He said the amount of PROMO vinyls that get cut are easily an average of 5,000 copies. We're talking shit like, Britney Spears/Madonna club remixes off of their own labels. It's easy to say that it's such a waste of materials on such bad music...but really a lot of those promos never touch a human's hands. Now that's a true waste of materials (regardless of music quality).

**Adrenalin** · 08-09-2006, 06:22 PM

True, there are a lot of new records being released on virgin vinyl. My friend just got a Black Sabbath box set on 180g virgin vinyl, but man, it was EXPENSIVE! I also saw some metal recs on virgin vinyl selling for $25 USD. Too much for my tastes.

And I agree with Dustin. The recycled sound quality isn't the best, but it's a step in the right direction. And any vinyl that never gets into an audiences hands, regardless of genre, is just blasphemy.

**Lag** · 08-09-2006, 06:38 PM

im not against vinyl
but imo, the text is absolute rubbish

**module** · 09-09-2006, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by ERROR404

Originally Posted by module

the truth is, its a format that is on its way out.
..

lol - this was said when casettes became the standard in the 80's, then wiht CD's in the 90's.

Surely you are not nieve enough to think digital media will kill it?

man, its the cost. postage is going up, vinyl raw materials are becoing more expensive. its not a 'digital is better' argument, its every day fact. there isnt an infinite supply of oil, and hence the price is fluctuating day on day. i work in a petrol station, and the prices change with every delivery, generally going up.

yeah, i dig the argument. vinyl IS great. it IS a brilliant way to play dance music.. BUT, it is on its way out. and anyone who thinks i dont know its not jus electronica thats on vinyl is assuming incorrectly. many many indie bands & labels made their way via 7" but most of the djs i know playing other than dance are via digital.. cdjs, laptops.. even f*ckin iPods.. ive seen djs use 2 iPods..

dude, go check the '5 Favourite Mixes' i put in the Mixes forum.. the QIKMIX was done on vinyl & it can ONLY be done on vinyl.. cos i had to take a 12 from a sleeve, put it on a 1210, pitch it, cue it & mix it.. what i achieved there skill wise is null & void via Ableton.. and with cdjs, i can burn all the tracks on 2 discs not needin to even pull a track from a sleeve. and for that i LOVED vinyl.. but i reached a point where i had nowhere to push.. Ableton gives me a fresh challenge & a new curve to learn..

i love vinyl.. i still have my Motley Crue & GnR albums.. ALL vinyl.. but as a format & medium for dance music, vinyl IS approaching its end.. not today.. maybe not tomoro.. or next month.. or next year.. but it IS limited. FACT. jus look at the number of distro's that caved in the last 5 years..

**module** · 09-09-2006, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by ERROR404

the technology already exists to make "plastic" out of Maize - it won't be the same polymer as the vinyl we know, but it will be the same to the naked eye

dude, i have had 2 records pressed on this stuff and it is crap.. total rubbish. expensive & very very delicate. i even got a guy to put a commercial cd track on one of them to check if it was as bad.. thinkin my production wasnt mastered for vinyl, it aint gonna sound right. but even a commercially produced cd sounded awful. yes, it wasnt mastered speciffacilly FOR vinyl, but still.. the stuff looks, feels & sounds very very sub par.. given the choice, i'd use a cdj over a 'pseudo vinyl' press any day..

**davethedrummer** · 09-09-2006, 05:43 PM

he does go on a bit doesn't he? :coffee:

**davethedrummer** · 09-09-2006, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Dustin Zahn

Actually...a lot of pressing plants still claim to be pressing on virgin vinyl. I've heard of some cheap-ass nazi run establishments in Eastern Europe or something that do pressings really cheap and I think they probably recycle but thats just a guess. Plus, just because it's recycled doesn't mean it can keep being reused. Recycling processes in general are pretty inefficient but it's definitely a step in the right direction. I was talking with a certain techno/acid producer who makes his money by being the secret producer for an infamous pop remixer. He said the amount of PROMO vinyls that get cut are easily an average of 5,000 copies. We're talking shit like, Britney Spears/Madonna club remixes off of their own labels. It's easy to say that it's such a waste of materials on such bad music...but really a lot of those promos never touch a human's hands. Now that's a true waste of materials (regardless of music quality).

to be honest dustin i think most pressing plants in europe use at least 50% recycled vinyl anyway.

i just don't think its financially viable any more to press only virgin vinyl
and from what i've heard a certain amount of recycled stuff mixed in actually IMPROVES the quality. so long as it is recycled carefully and no paper gets in there.

**davethedrummer** · 09-09-2006, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by davethedrummer

he does go on a bit doesn't he? :coffee:

sorry... i meant the original article at the beginning of this thread

**module** · 10-09-2006, 02:54 AM

Trax Records in Chicago was all recycled vinyl. didnt do them any hassle :)

**Little_Fella!** · 10-09-2006, 04:14 AM

I really liked the article...

I once had the same passion as him for vinyl and the points and feelings towards this medium are all very valid...

Now I am passionate about my Korg ESX1 n mi laptop and all it has to offer...!

I think he is misguided in regards to Ableton etc. but his reference to MP3's n the like being a lifeless medium with vastly reduced tangable connectivity to the artist certainly have merit, imo....

Hang on there, I'm sure I put the kettle on! :lol:

**MARKEG** · 10-09-2006, 10:24 AM

i loved the article. i do think the comment about ableton was a little uninformed but my god, you gotta admire this guy's passion. and tbh, all these mp3's etc do feel like air to me. i was actually doing my 6 monthly clean up of my studio recently and whereas I have a small 'shit' pile for records that I try to sell (but never happens) and a 'good' pile that i immediately file in one of my record rooms, when i went through the cd's it was like 80% in the bin cause they're either burned from hard drive or shite. the only cd's i keep are really albums and even those could be put on hard drive if i had the time.

it's all a bit sad living your life off a hard drive if you ask me. people always said dance music was throw away and now it REALLY IS!!! in fact, all music is!!!

i really want vinyl to stay but alas, I'm not sure it will. what I do think is we need a completely new format. something that takes the good things about mp3's and packages it into a saleable product. it will happen. the music industry will make it, they just need to wait till the hype around free music stops....

until then, i will be regularly using both vinyl and mp3 together to make my sets as good and upfront as they can be ;)

**module** · 10-09-2006, 03:00 PM

in my case, i dont play OTHER ppls MP3.. i use Ableton & cdjs & pc's to play my trax & loops.. so i dont have this 'MP3 is hollow & lifeless' thing.. and i always use WAV too ;)

in reference to that guy, i dont think he is a 'djs dj' if ya get me.. i dont think he plays dance music the way i used to or EG does for example.. beat mixing etc.

i admire ppls passion when it dfoesnt involve rubbishing other ppls passion. if he loves vinyl, thats cool, but why does he have to knock an Ableton fan ?

**TechMouse** · 11-09-2006, 12:58 PM

I just read that the petroleum by-product which is key to the production of vinyl is to be eliminated from the refinement process.

Dunno how much truth there is in that... will try and find some info.

**ERROR404** · 11-09-2006, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Dustin Zahn

Yeah, and you can also power cars off of maize as well. It's called E85 or Ethanol 85%. The downside is the amount of corn required. Speaking for USA terms, there isn't enough land to cultivate. Every home owner's yard in America would have to be converted into a corn field.

P.S. Yeah, one day vinyl materials could become sparse and run out in theory, but there will always be people playing and collecting old records, regardless of genre.

is that based on the 3 gallons a day of crude the average Amercian uses daily? :razz:
lol - no point taken, its not an effective solution at the moment, but with a greater R&D input it could be a viable future for polymer manufacturing... hopefully :cry:

**Miromiric** · 11-09-2006, 02:46 PM

error404 - we meet yet again. birmingham`s gayest.

**massplanck** · 11-09-2006, 02:48 PM

Is it more environmentally friendly to use mp3's or vinyl?

I'm going with mp3. The amount of power it takes to make & distribute one seems to me to be minute in comparision to the heavy duty production & shipping of vinyl.

**ERROR404** · 11-09-2006, 02:55 PM

up to no good again i see ;)

thats why i love it here :love:

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