people on here saying im a manc

[Esox Lucius]

most of what you named is shite.

idiot. only a zionist would dislike those bands.

[Will]

on their day they do william but they aint consistent enough, when they are bang on form they are a pleasure to watch even if i do hate them.

We just need to be more clinical and defend better, our performances from a football point of view are as consistent as anyones! Even if we rarely have the scorelines to prove it.

[phantomdj]

idiot. only a zionist would dislike those bands.

hahaha.

mate, ur speaking to a zealous Christian. anti-establishment and so forth and my eyes are wide open....

zionist? hahaha.

those bands were shit really. same old, same old...

give me real talent.... not something boxed and sold as original because
'radio 1' found them....

and no i don't listen to any chart music! not a boxed raver either. i have plenty of different likes in music.

[Esox Lucius]

me too, i have very varied taste. the zionist thing was a wind up as obviously you have the same thoughts on that issue as me :; but lets not go into that or we will get ourselves banned :cheese:

[force]

hahaha.

mate, ur speaking to a zealous Christian. anti-establishment and so forth and my eyes are wide open....

zionist? hahaha.

those bands were shit really. same old, same old...

give me real talent.... not something boxed and sold as original because
'radio 1' found them....

and no i don't listen to any chart music! not a boxed raver either. i have plenty of different likes in music.

WOT THE **** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????????

Jesus Christ(who didn't exist BTW) How on earth can you call Joy Division "Same old Same old"

Sodding religion does some wierd shit to peoples perceptions!

[basslinejunkie]

go and get a sunbed and get a perm laaaaaaaa, talk like ya balls havent dropped laaaa calm down calm down, and all that sort of stuff.

:D

[phantomdj]

Jesus Christ(who didn't exist BTW) How on earth can you call Joy Division "Same old Same old"

Sodding religion does some wierd shit to peoples perceptions!

Don't be naive pal!

Materialism is a religion - 'I must have this, i must have this, i must buy that, i want that, i have got to have that - a set of humanistic rules governing your behaviour. This is religion whether you like it or not.

Macro-evolution is a religion - the idea that nothing created intelligence despite no input of any information and that a worm can then go on and become a human which is the most ridiculous thing i ever heard and when you understand the basic principles of science, you realise that it's all naive wishful thinking. 'The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise and they are futile'. Evolution is a blind religion.

Western civilisation was founded on Christian principles. Witnessed the terror of the Romans and other nations before Christianity was spread amongst the masses? True, nothing was perfect, but the general people became a lot calmer when they started to acknowledge their Creator. Now look at this current Satanic society we now live in! Tell me Satan is not living his dream. The establishment might have removed Jesus from the frontline and replaced it with the religion of evolution, but the world had become much more evil because of it.

And just think about all those idiots who think we are more liberal and advanced

feminists -so called freedom of women, which only imprisoned them from truth
sexually liberated - 'homo/bi/tri celebration
advance in science, yet the people are becoming sicker
materialists - 'screw you' i want it now society
humanists - 'I don't believe in God, so there are no rules, I can kill if I want'

Oh and Jesus didn't live? Don't be naive Pal. We have all the proof below and much more that He lived, yet you believe in macro-evolution when there is no proof whatsoever. Or you believe in Alexander the Great when the proof of his existence is far less detailed. Or thousands of other people who only have a few pages written about them. You clearly only believe what you want to believe and don't use common sense or reason to ascertain what's real and isn't.

Is there any historical proof that Jesus existed?

The ancient historical record provides examples of writers, philosophers and historians who lived during or not long after the time Jesus is believed to have lived and who testify to the fact that he was a real person. We will look at what some of these people have said.

Cornelius Tacitus

Tacitus lived from A.D. 55 to A.D. 120. He was a Roman historian and has been described as the greatest historian of Rome, noted for his integrity and moral uprightness. His most famous works are the Annals and the Histories. The Annals relate the historical narrative from Augustus’ death in A.D.14 to Nero’s death in A.D. 68. The Histories begin their narrative after Nero’s death and finish with Domitian’s death in A.D. 96. In his section describing Nero’s decision to blame the fire of Rome on the Christians, Tacitus affirms that the founder of Christianity, a man he calls Chrestus (a common misspelling of Christ, which was Jesus’ surname), was executed by Pilate, the procurator of Judea during the reign of the Roman emperor Tiberias. Tacitus was hostile to Christianity because in the same paragraph he describes Christus’ or Christ’s death, he describes Christianity as a pernicious superstition. It would have therefore been in his interests to declare that Jesus had never existed, but he did not, and perhaps he did not because he could not without betraying the historical record.

Lucian of Samosata

Lucian was a Greek satirist of the latter half of the second century. He therefore lived within two hundred years of Jesus. Lucian was hostile to Christianity and openly mocked it. He particularly objected to the fact that Christians worshipped a man. He does not mention Jesus’ name, but the reference to the man Christians worship is a reference to Jesus.

Suetonius

Suetonius was a Roman historian and a court official in Emperor Hadrian’s government. In his Life of Claudius he refers to Claudius expelling Jews from Rome on account of their activities on behalf of a man Suetonius calls Chrestus [another misspelling of Christus or Christ].

Pliny the Younger

Pliny was the Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor (AD. 112). He was responsible for executing Christians for not worshipping or bowing down to a statue of the emperor Trajan. In a letter to the emperor Trajan, he describes how the people on trial for being Christians would describe how they sang songs to Christ because he was a god.

Thallus and Phlegon
Both were ancient historians and both confirmed the fact that the land went dark when Jesus was crucified. This parallels what the Bible said happened when Jesus died.

Mara Bar-Serapion

Some time after 70 A.D., Mara Bar-Sarapion, who was probably a Stoic philosopher, wrote a letter to his son in which he describes how the Jews executed their King. Claiming to be a king was one of the charges the religious authorities used to scare Pontius Pilate into agreeing to execute Jesus.

Josephus

Josephus was a Jewish historian who was born in either 37 or 38 AD and died some time after 100 AD. He wrote the Jewish Antiquites and in one famous passage described Jesus as a wise man, a doer of wonderful works and calls him the Christ. He also affirmed that Jesus was executed by Pilate and actually rose from the dead!

The four Gospels

The four Gospels are the four accounts of Jesus’ life, which are contained in the New Testament part of the Bible. Historians will tell you that the closer an historical document is written to the time of the events it describes, the generally more reliable it is as a source of information about those events. Matthew’s Gospel account of Jesus’ life is now reckoned to have been written sometime between AD 70 and AD 80. Mark’s Gospel is dated between AD. 50 and AD. 65. Luke’s Gospel is dated in the early AD 60s and John’s Gospel sometime between AD 80 and 100. If Jesus died sometime in the AD 30s, it is clear that Mark, Luke and Matthew wrote their Gospels within living memory of Jesus’ death. John’s Gospel comes later and probably outside of living memory for most as John lived to an unusually old age for the ancient period, but the accuracy of his Gospel was verified no doubt by those who read the earlier Gospels.

Another feature of the Gospels is that they were written by men who either knew Jesus personally, or who knew people who themselves knew Jesus personally. Matthew was a former tax collector who became a disciple of Jesus. Mark was a close associate of Simon Peter, who is regarded as being Jesus’ most prominent disciple whilst Jesus was on the earth. Luke was a close associate of Paul who is the most famous of Christian missionaries and who wrote the largest contribution to the New Testament. Paul, in turn, was a close colleague of Simon Peter. John was the former fisherman who became the closest disciple of Jesus. The accounts of such men need to be considered at least seriously!

[Numeric]

dude the bands that Downie mentioned were all successfull and extremely influential as to how British music has developed over the past couple of decades, for you to call them s**t is quite ridiculous really...

[phantomdj]

dude the bands that Downie mentioned were all successfull and extremely influential as to how British music has developed over the past couple of decades, for you to call them s**t is quite ridiculous really...

If I don't like something I will say... what is this 'development' you are talking about anyway. Same shite, indie/pop/rock crap voices and so forth...

some bands have good voices with crap music, others have crap singers with Ok music.... most dress like zombie EMO kids or have some serious chip on their shoulder....

celebrate that? never!

Yeah some bands stand out for being truly inspirational, but I guess our choice of direction in that is quite diverse, hence the differing opinions of what is good and is lacking.

[force]

Don't be naive pal!

Materialism is a religion - 'I must have this, i must have this, i must buy that, i want that, i have got to have that - a set of humanistic rules governing your behaviour. This is religion whether you like it or not.

Macro-evolution is a religion - the idea that nothing created intelligence despite no input of any information and that a worm can then go on and become a human which is the most ridiculous thing i ever heard and when you understand the basic principles of science, you realise that it's all naive wishful thinking. 'The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise and they are futile'. Evolution is a blind religion.

Western civilisation was founded on Christian principles. Witnessed the terror of the Romans and other nations before Christianity was spread amongst the masses? True, nothing was perfect, but the general people became a lot calmer when they started to acknowledge their Creator. Now look at this current Satanic society we now live in! Tell me Satan is not living his dream. The establishment might have removed Jesus from the frontline and replaced it with the religion of evolution, but the world had become much more evil because of it.

And just think about all those idiots who think we are more liberal and advanced

feminists -so called freedom of women, which only imprisoned them from truth
sexually liberated - 'homo/bi/tri celebration
advance in science, yet the people are becoming sicker
materialists - 'screw you' i want it now society
humanists - 'I don't believe in God, so there are no rules, I can kill if I want'

Oh and Jesus didn't live? Don't be naive Pal. We have all the proof below and much more that He lived, yet you believe in macro-evolution when there is no proof whatsoever. Or you believe in Alexander the Great when the proof of his existence is far less detailed. Or thousands of other people who only have a few pages written about them. You clearly only believe what you want to believe and don't use common sense or reason to ascertain what's real and isn't.

Is there any historical proof that Jesus existed?

The ancient historical record provides examples of writers, philosophers and historians who lived during or not long after the time Jesus is believed to have lived and who testify to the fact that he was a real person. We will look at what some of these people have said.

Cornelius Tacitus

Tacitus lived from A.D. 55 to A.D. 120. He was a Roman historian and has been described as the greatest historian of Rome, noted for his integrity and moral uprightness. His most famous works are the Annals and the Histories. The Annals relate the historical narrative from Augustus’ death in A.D.14 to Nero’s death in A.D. 68. The Histories begin their narrative after Nero’s death and finish with Domitian’s death in A.D. 96. In his section describing Nero’s decision to blame the fire of Rome on the Christians, Tacitus affirms that the founder of Christianity, a man he calls Chrestus (a common misspelling of Christ, which was Jesus’ surname), was executed by Pilate, the procurator of Judea during the reign of the Roman emperor Tiberias. Tacitus was hostile to Christianity because in the same paragraph he describes Christus’ or Christ’s death, he describes Christianity as a pernicious superstition. It would have therefore been in his interests to declare that Jesus had never existed, but he did not, and perhaps he did not because he could not without betraying the historical record.

Lucian of Samosata

Lucian was a Greek satirist of the latter half of the second century. He therefore lived within two hundred years of Jesus. Lucian was hostile to Christianity and openly mocked it. He particularly objected to the fact that Christians worshipped a man. He does not mention Jesus’ name, but the reference to the man Christians worship is a reference to Jesus.

Suetonius

Suetonius was a Roman historian and a court official in Emperor Hadrian’s government. In his Life of Claudius he refers to Claudius expelling Jews from Rome on account of their activities on behalf of a man Suetonius calls Chrestus [another misspelling of Christus or Christ].

Pliny the Younger

Pliny was the Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor (AD. 112). He was responsible for executing Christians for not worshipping or bowing down to a statue of the emperor Trajan. In a letter to the emperor Trajan, he describes how the people on trial for being Christians would describe how they sang songs to Christ because he was a god.

Thallus and Phlegon
Both were ancient historians and both confirmed the fact that the land went dark when Jesus was crucified. This parallels what the Bible said happened when Jesus died.

Mara Bar-Serapion

Some time after 70 A.D., Mara Bar-Sarapion, who was probably a Stoic philosopher, wrote a letter to his son in which he describes how the Jews executed their King. Claiming to be a king was one of the charges the religious authorities used to scare Pontius Pilate into agreeing to execute Jesus.

Josephus

Josephus was a Jewish historian who was born in either 37 or 38 AD and died some time after 100 AD. He wrote the Jewish Antiquites and in one famous passage described Jesus as a wise man, a doer of wonderful works and calls him the Christ. He also affirmed that Jesus was executed by Pilate and actually rose from the dead!

The four Gospels

The four Gospels are the four accounts of Jesus’ life, which are contained in the New Testament part of the Bible. Historians will tell you that the closer an historical document is written to the time of the events it describes, the generally more reliable it is as a source of information about those events. Matthew’s Gospel account of Jesus’ life is now reckoned to have been written sometime between AD 70 and AD 80. Mark’s Gospel is dated between AD. 50 and AD. 65. Luke’s Gospel is dated in the early AD 60s and John’s Gospel sometime between AD 80 and 100. If Jesus died sometime in the AD 30s, it is clear that Mark, Luke and Matthew wrote their Gospels within living memory of Jesus’ death. John’s Gospel comes later and probably outside of living memory for most as John lived to an unusually old age for the ancient period, but the accuracy of his Gospel was verified no doubt by those who read the earlier Gospels.

Another feature of the Gospels is that they were written by men who either knew Jesus personally, or who knew people who themselves knew Jesus personally. Matthew was a former tax collector who became a disciple of Jesus. Mark was a close associate of Simon Peter, who is regarded as being Jesus’ most prominent disciple whilst Jesus was on the earth. Luke was a close associate of Paul who is the most famous of Christian missionaries and who wrote the largest contribution to the New Testament. Paul, in turn, was a close colleague of Simon Peter. John was the former fisherman who became the closest disciple of Jesus. The accounts of such men need to be considered at least seriously!

Dude, you believe anything you like, im ok with that.
The fact remains, you cannot prove anything one way or another.

Your beliefs rely pretty much exclusively on faith.

And faith is what it is because you don't know how accurate any of the stuff you espoused is.

And....... i do seem to remember you getting your arse pretty much kicked black and blue on this very subject in metropolis a while back!!

Sorry dude, i do not share your faith i'm afraid.

Up Paganism!!!!!:briggin:

[Traxx]

Cant be arsed readin all that. Whats bands you into phantom?

[Esox Lucius]

songs of praise the annual.

[Numeric]