you will shoot me for saying it but....

[nihilist]

do people really just put aload of standard loops together and call it a track?

[fatcollective]

do people really just put aload of standard loops together and call it a track?

i think some people do this but i dont think much of it gets released to be honest. i know loops get hammered these days though, thats why there is so much 'tribal' techno about or percussive style techno. i like some of it, but most is rather boring and goes on and on...

[nihilist]

using loops is just cheating yourself where's the chalange?

[fatcollective]

schranz is very loop based with a fvck load of distortion on top, it can sound good if ya get it right!!

[davethedrummer]

hard techno is on it's way out (for now) - you just got to accept it - mutate and survive right?.....the thing is if you slow your set down to around 125 - 128 bpm the range of records that become available to you opens up massively, and things are just far more groovy, and you have more choice of peak time bangers....it sounds to me like you need those big anthem bangers cos you do big gigs abroad where you need that peak, those 'when I rock' 'born slippy' moments......thats what the kids want - fair enough.

I used to love going to the end to listen layo and bushwacka play all night - they play all sorts of trippy wonky tech glitch minimal whatever......just because the music is slower doesn't mean it's not hard...

At the same time more commercial dj's like sven vath still play to 4000 peeps in ibiza everyyear - he's considered the biggest techno dj in the world and yet I doubt he ever goes above 130bpm...this has been happening for years now.

I know what your saying - listening to the techo section on juno is dispressing these days - I'm starting not to bother....

personally labels like olmeto, traum, cocoon are doing it for me these days. On the washing machine point - no offence (I've defended and played and supported this scene for the last decade) but I've heard no end of clubbers describe london techno as washing machine and been turned off by it.........

i totally agree
it's a shame , but there it is.

[davethedrummer]

the thing is chaps
production itself is not the issue here
it's WRITING thats the issue

i mean production , thats just about making things sound good right?
it doesn't really matter how you do it
as long as it works

and production has always been improved upon over the years
because we humans are just totally anal about what we listen too.

but writing , now thats different..

thats where you make descisions about key , pitch , rhythm , melody and most importantly concept

and thats the bit that is going astray
its the concept ( or lack of ) thats needed
we do need to hear some experimenting , and pretty damn soon.
cos the music is too safe
and i for one am getting close to giving up point now
cos there just isn't enought about to keep my set up to date with

all those key producers

bailey , sneo , beyer , henrik b , leibing , advent , krome , skoog and many more

all those guys would fill up my bag , and then i'd play a bit of london stuff to go with it
and it would work
but now it's just london , cos there just isn't anything else , and well thats just too london
even for me

i'm just still resisting , because i like the tempo of that music
and the groove

minimal is just too slow for me ( for a whole night anyway )
and schranz too fast ( for a whoile night)

we need mid paced techno

well i do anyway


more ideas

[Aratron]

how about more bland shite written on ableton?

[Si the Sigh]

bring back the breakbeats, acid and trancier elements.

Nail. Head.

[Si the Sigh]

Back to the roots, just like mnml.

[ds2]

..chris lib said a while ago , all this minimal stuff is crap ( just like that ) , why doesn't someone really break the rules and make a minimal track at 150 bpm or something ?
and i agree with that point.

:whoops: i can't believe i just read that.
it's been done already - where do you think the mnml thing came from?
download some rob hood or steve rachmad sets for inspiration.

as for there being no good techno around any more, there's certainly less quality hard stuff but the gems are there and i can't believe a big name dj (for want of a better phrase) is complaining he can't fjnd decent records while in the same sentence admits to only using juno. juno are one of the reasons there's so much shite around - they stock everything and anything with the sole purpose of blowing every other shop away - the good stuff sells out quickly so your left with pages and pages and pages of complete and utter drivel.

try some smaller shops before they all go bankrupt because of lazy juno shoppers, there's 6 shops i know of already that have closed this year and i'm sure there's a lot more up and down the country. the ones i know of all cite juno as the reason.

you produce records don't you? i dare say you're an inspiration to a lot of producers on this board and in the london / hard scene? stop moaning then and do something about it. :;

[Si the Sigh]

Part of the problem IMHO is we are getting too many DAVE the Drummer clones banging out tracks at the moment. All high quality fillers, but no killers...

[davethedrummer]

:whoops: i can't believe i just read that.
it's been done already - where do you think the mnml thing came from?
download some rob hood or steve rachmad sets for inspiration.

as for there being no good techno around any more, there's certainly less quality hard stuff but the gems are there and i can't believe a big name dj (for want of a better phrase) is complaining he can't fjnd decent records while in the same sentence admits to only using juno. juno are one of the reasons there's so much shite around - they stock everything and anything with the sole purpose of blowing every other shop away - the good stuff sells out quickly so your left with pages and pages and pages of complete and utter drivel.

try some smaller shops before they all go bankrupt because of lazy juno shoppers, there's 6 shops i know of already that have closed this year and i'm sure there's a lot more up and down the country. the ones i know of all cite juno as the reason.

you produce records don't you? i dare say you're an inspiration to a lot of producers on this board and in the london / hard scene? stop moaning then and do something about it. :;

ahh the juno reply
i knew that was coming
ok mate keep your hair on

[ds2]

ahh the juno reply
i knew that was coming
ok mate keep your hair on

i've got no hair left unfortunately :ohdear:

yes the juno reply - you're the one complaining you've got a bag full of mediocre records - and i dare say the ones you didn't pick up from tesco are probably promos from circuit producers who should've packed it in 5 years ago.

and they say techno's become stale, i wonder why? :;

[rhythmtech]

Part of the problem IMHO is we are getting too many DAVE the Drummer clones banging out tracks at the moment. All high quality fillers, but no killers...

i dont think this is the case at all.. i think a lot of producers may have started out trying to "copy" a certain style but this is just a learning period really.

off the top of my head i cant think of 1 producer who sounds like henry or lawrie.. i think possibly people are writing similiar styles but this is the same in every "scene".. how many indie bands are there doing the indie thing?

[Aratron]

ahh the juno reply
i knew that was coming
ok mate keep your hair on

even the God of Acid Techno makes mistakes

[RDR]

fair enough can see you were making a broader point anyway. i agree it's almost too easy to make music now with computers and pirated software, made worse also with internet/mp3 distribution

maybe the standard has been lowered by the sheer volume of tracks and producers out there, and it needs some time to level out

You are completely missing the point.

At NO stage does having accessible technology make the quality of the music go down. Where does it say that people enjoy making crap quality music, and what on earth makes people think that everything will get WORSE?

Its too easy to make music? No it isnt, the fundamentals of music didnt change overnight you know.

And how on earth is it made worse with internet distribution? What worse than the owners of a well known defunct distro piping up the crack and gambling 10k a week? worse than small minded distro owners raping the jesus out of artists who did nothing wrong other than be forced into a ropey P+D deal because there was **** all else for them to do?

Nowt personal but i get REALLY sick of people slagging this off (and yes i do have a vested interest, however im hardly likely to sell much through BOA so this is IMO fo course)

The MP3 and digital revoution is just that, move with the times or get swamped, the music industry changes.

In one respect there are many many many SHITE music writers out there, but the digital revolution gives people HOPE, it opens doors that were closed. And its ALWAYS the young who create and shape trends, rather than the OG's attempting to hang onto markets they created that no longer work.

I am a lover of techno, a fan of henry's stuff and and old orbit head, if techno is to survive and remain fresh it has to change and we have to undertsand that we might not like where its going. I for one dont care, i want to hear new - fresh - well produced and unusual music.

FFS - techno is about all those sounds you never heard before, so why do people moan when it changes?

[dubs]

I think there is still loads of great stuff coming out. One issue maybe that a lot of people writing don't come from a musical background so there may be less inclination to write tracks that move beyond a cartain style.

[RDR]

the thing is chaps
production itself is not the issue here
it's WRITING thats the issue

Thats true... but then there have always been producers who ignored this and did perfectly well.

bailey , sneo , beyer , henrik b , leibing , advent , krome , skoog and many more

ALL of them used loops too in one way or another. And all of them produced a million bollox pieces of music that never saw the light of day. the loops argument (scuse me if you did raise if mate) is dragged out YET again. Loops have their place. and if used within context can sound great.

[davethedrummer]

i've got no hair left unfortunately :ohdear:

yes the juno reply - you're the one complaining you've got a bag full of mediocre records - and i dare say the ones you didn't pick up from tesco are probably promos from circuit producers who should've packed it in 5 years ago.

and they say techno's become stale, i wonder why? :;

what are you talking about
tesco is a fantastic record shop !
much better than sainburys and cheaper too
and you buy a new pair of trousers and some salad at the same time.

[davethedrummer]

Thats true... but then there have always been producers who ignored this and did perfectly well.




ALL of them used loops too in one way or another. And all of them produced a million bollox pieces of music that never saw the light of day. the loops argument (scuse me if you did raise if mate) is dragged out YET again. Loops have their place. and if used within context can sound great.

no i didn't actually say anything about loops
at least i don't think i did
no it's nothing to do with that loops is loops i got nothing for or against them
anyway in hindsight i think this is all going a bit too negative
so i'm off down the shops to find some great new trax and i'll get back here when i've found something you can listen to and tell me if i'm just getting old and my taste in music is shit

not yet si...i said when i get back...it may not be until next year but.....