your thoughts on minimal..

[Tyrisia]

Was gonna post this in the discussion forum, then thought, I want viewpoints from the production/musical angle, so would be better here.

I've spent a lot of time this weekend downloading, collecting and listening to minimal sets from the likes of Hawtin, Villalobos, Audio Injection, Alex Smoke, and some of the less well known dj's from the Filez section. I know this ain't a comprehensive list of what's goin on, but after listening to this stuff and watching crowd reactions on youtube, it seems to be completely different vibe-wise than anything I've heard/seen before (except Howie B's downtempo "Skelf" project). I've been aware of the whole thing for a while but never really looked into it, so thought it'd be interesting to get some view points offa (hopefully) a cross-section of techno society :)

So I was wondering if any of you guys could describe "minimal" to me in terms of production qualities, muscial qualities (energy etc), and how you would see this sound developing in years to come?

[TechMouse]

Ah, the unmistakeable sound of a can opening and worms spilling all over the place...

To me there are two very different things that get bandied around as minimal.

One is what I would call "genuinely minimal" Techno, like Basic Channel and older Hawtin. Stuff with few elements, sparse arrangements, generally restrained DSP with massive soakings of reverb and echo. The great thing about this stuff being that it can actually be either hard or soft, in-your-face or understated. There's quite a lot of range.

The other is this "mnml" stuff that's floating around a lot, which to me sounds like what they used to call "Click House". Which is actually pretty complex and intricate but uses very tiny little clicky and blippy noises compressed to buggery. A great example of the sound is Akufen. It has its moments, but I'm not a massive fan.

[RDR]

Ah, the unmistakeable sound of a can opening and worms spilling all over the place...

To me there are two very different things that get bandied around as minimal.

One is what I would call "genuinely minimal" Techno, like Basic Channel and older Hawtin. Stuff with few elements, sparse arrangements, generally restrained DSP with massive soakings of reverb and echo. The great thing about this stuff being that it can actually be either hard or soft, in-your-face or understated. There's quite a lot of range.

The other is this "mnml" stuff that's floating around a lot, which to me sounds like what they used to call "Click House". Which is actually pretty complex and intricate but uses very tiny little clicky and blippy noises compressed to buggery. A great example of the sound is Akufen. It has its moments, but I'm not a massive fan.

+1

[DVNT]

Ah, the unmistakeable sound of a can opening and worms spilling all over the place...

To me there are two very different things that get bandied around as minimal.

One is what I would call "genuinely minimal" Techno, like Basic Channel and older Hawtin. Stuff with few elements, sparse arrangements, generally restrained DSP with massive soakings of reverb and echo. The great thing about this stuff being that it can actually be either hard or soft, in-your-face or understated. There's quite a lot of range.

The other is this "mnml" stuff that's floating around a lot, which to me sounds like what they used to call "Click House". Which is actually pretty complex and intricate but uses very tiny little clicky and blippy noises compressed to buggery. A great example of the sound is Akufen. It has its moments, but I'm not a massive fan.

+2

Liking Ambivilant of recent thou. What does that count as?

[BloodStar]

same here. I like minimal in sense of approach to the tune instead of mnml clicky glitchy thing.

[DannyBlack]

i think Minimal, like all brands of techno if done right is wicked. nuff said.

[Craig_Lea]

I must admit, a lot of the Mnml type stuff has a really nice vibe to it.
But, I do find it slightly frustrating at times.
For me, when I hear a section in a track that starts building towards a crescendo, after the crescendo I would want it to be completely rocking and to keep building.
A lot of Mnml seems to build and build during a breakdown, but when it kicks back in, all it does is drop back down to a few spartan layers.
I know it's a bit of a generalisation, and maybe it's just the stuff I have heard, but that's the overall impression I get from it.

[loopdon]

I must admit, a lot of the Mnml type stuff has a really nice vibe to it.
But, I do find it slightly frustrating at times.
For me, when I hear a section in a track that starts building towards a crescendo, after the crescendo I would want it to be completely rocking and to keep building.
A lot of Mnml seems to build and build during a breakdown, but when it kicks back in, all it does is drop back down to a few spartan layers.
I know it's a bit of a generalisation, and maybe it's just the stuff I have heard, but that's the overall impression I get from it.

I was wanting to say that as well, after a build with verb and noise instead of dropping into a frenzy it drops back to nothing. Very anti-climatic. If sex was always like that humanity would stop doing it.

Head over to mnml.nl as well for more info :)

[Craig_Lea]

I was wanting to say that as well, after a build with verb and noise instead of dropping into a frenzy it drops back to nothing. Very anti-climatic. If sex was always like that humanity would stop doing it.

Head over to mnml.nl as well for more info :)

Yeah, anti-climatic is exactly the way I feel about it sometimes. That's a great description.

[mattboyslim]

i think a lot of the nu skool producers are missing the point. their stuff isn't minimal at all. yeah it doesn't have a pounding kick and harsh snare, but the intricate fills flying about that add to the groove create something more maximal than much of the harder stuff. proper minimal is just that. space between sounds and time to breathe before the next beat

[TechMouse]

I have some absolutely horrific records that I would consider to be very minimal.

Observer by Steve Stoll, for example.

(Track A1 on this)

Next to nothing going on in that track.... utter filth, and kicks like the proverbial mule on the dancefloor.

[Tyrisia]

what was interesting was I was watching a Villalobos set on youtube and it looked to me like half the crowd were completely bored outta their skull, and just goin through the motions of dancin coz they were there.

And a great deal of the music that I've heard in sets has been of my opinion lacking energy to the point of being plain boring. I suspect this is minimal "done wrong", or am I missing the point?

[Jay Pace]

Hmmm.... I go to a lot of minimal stuff. The vibe is very dfferent.

You end up drinking and chatting a lot more, rather than doing full on bosh bosh bosh stuff, which is all I did for years.

Its nice. More sociable, and the emphasis moves away from the music and into the atmosphere of it all. Hawtin excels at this - creating tension and atmosphere in a crowd. The set ends up being more about the vibe than the music. And for this reason the quality of the setup becomes crucial. Minimal on shitty rigs sounds awful, and almost pointless.

The way things seem to be moving at the moment is into this kinda cartoon shuffly plinky sound which I find really irritating. But on the other side there's some really smart stuff being made. Some fantastic old school sounding stuff, heavy detroit influences, and an emphasis on a slow, driving funk and melody that can be both quirky and mesmerising.

IMO one of the best things minimal has done has encourage producers to move away from fast distorted loops and start slowing things down and going for a more organic sound.

Can see a resurgance of melody and a move away from glitchy DSP style stuff, which is just going to end up sounding tired and cliched. Very "00s" or whatever you call this stupid decade.

I'm really glad it happened though, as its made going out much less intense and much more appealing. More of a drop in vibe to it, than a full on drug induced bosh-fest. Which is great and that, but I'm not getting any younger, and can't really be dealing with work on monday with a head reeling from chemical withdrawal.

[loopdon]

Hmmm.... I go to a lot of minimal stuff. The vibe is very dfferent.

You end up drinking and chatting a lot more, rather than doing full on bosh bosh bosh stuff, which is all I did for years.

Its nice. More sociable, and the emphasis moves away from the music and into the atmosphere of it all. Hawtin excels at this - creating tension and atmosphere in a crowd. The set ends up being more about the vibe than the music. And for this reason the quality of the setup becomes crucial. Minimal on shitty rigs sounds awful, and almost pointless.

The way things seem to be moving at the moment is into this kinda cartoon shuffly plinky sound which I find really irritating. But on the other side there's some really smart stuff being made. Some fantastic old school sounding stuff, heavy detroit influences, and an emphasis on a slow, driving funk and melody that can be both quirky and mesmerising.

IMO one of the best things minimal has done has encourage producers to move away from fast distorted loops and start slowing things down and going for a more organic sound.

Can see a resurgance of melody and a move away from glitchy DSP style stuff, which is just going to end up sounding tired and cliched. Very "00s" or whatever you call this stupid decade.

I'm really glad it happened though, as its made going out much less intense and much more appealing. More of a drop in vibe to it, than a full on drug induced bosh-fest. Which is great and that, but I'm not getting any younger, and can't really be dealing with work on monday with a head reeling from chemical withdrawal.

Some good points there. Musicality (neo-trance, anyone?), cleaner production values etc. I always wanted to hear stuff on a good, not to loud rig, though. Not only minimal stuff. Glitchy for the sake of it and trying so desperately not get loopy that it hurts is not my cuppa, though. I also miss basslines at times. Which lots of mnml tunes are lacking. Often enough the kicks don't make up for this, either.

I have said it before and eagerly say it again - i am all for a mix of styles. On a per-track basis and looking at an entire set. Atm i am really rediscovering the beauty some techno of around 2000 + / - two years had.

[Tyrisia]

Hmmm.... I go to a lot of minimal stuff. The vibe is very dfferent.

You end up drinking and chatting a lot more, rather than doing full on bosh bosh bosh stuff, which is all I did for years.

Its nice. More sociable, and the emphasis moves away from the music and into the atmosphere of it all.

That makes sense then, I kinda thought it was this way. I've not been out to any techno nights for ages, and this is probably my downfall, I haven't experienced the minimal vibe yet in person.

I must say that I've heard some great tracks through searching in the last couple of days, but they seem to be out numbered ten to one by tracks that follow the formula and have uninspiring basslines etc. I suppose that's true of any genre that becomes so popular that everybody wants in on it though.

[TechMouse]

Very "00s" or whatever you call this stupid decade.

I think the officially endorsed term is "the naughties".

[Metacognition]

Check out Gaiser & Guido Schneider for how the "mnml" stuff should be done properly. Especially tracks from a year or so ago. Whatever the EP with "Egress" and "Pandrip" is called. "And Answer" that was it. Amazing. Bought two copies.

I'd also cite Monolake in with a lot of the first group. Very Basic Channel influenced, which is a good thing.

In fact, I'd be very pleased if anybody could point me in the direction of anything similar.

[maily]

I'd also cite Monolake in with a lot of the first group. Very Basic Channel influenced, which is a good thing.

i'd have to say that the most interesting thing i've seen which fit's within the minimal banner was seeing monolake do his live thing at bloc, there was loads of minimal stuff there but most of it was pretty dull!

but since i've been looking for sets of his to listen to none of them have grabbed me like seeing it live did. I think a big part of that was actually being able to watch him obviously loving what he was doing, totally infectious.

[Jay Pace]

Yeah, mix of styles always the way forward.

Besides, its great now that stuff has slowed down a lot. Acid house, wonky stuff, minimal old and new, even old belgian techno and early hardcore mixes happily together. More opportunities to chop it up than ever before....

.... and yet people still play entire sets of kompakt, perlon and minus records. Lively up yourself bwoys.

And loopdon - totally get you on basslines. The plinky two note minimal basslines get on my tits.

[Jay Pace]

If you haven't already - check out claro intellecto and andy stott.

There's a sound out there that I hear every now and again and I think "thats the future" but I've never heare more than a few snatches here and there. Frustrating, but at least some people are pushing something.... there's gems out there...