room acoustics

[TechMouse]

ok if you're after a quick 12 inch release until the bank manager gives you that loan to start that hairdressing business

That was Plan B, was it Mark?

[MARK ANXIOUS]

i have just done a load of reading up on this arc thing and my conclusions are simple. DONT buy it!!!!

Revolutionary Audyssey MultEQ® technology corrects frequency and phase response not only for the engineer’s ‘sweet spot’, but also multiple points in the room
...
Sonically ‘treat’ your room – get the sound of a $50,000 treated room for a fraction of the cost – so you can finally trust the sound of your studio


what a load of bollocks. the eq system is meant for home cinema, not professional music studios. seems to me like jbl are using a similar type of technology to this too, just to sell sub-standard monitors. mind you, they work for dirty, so there's something in them. hmm i need to check this shit out. i might order a pair of these jbl's on a 14 day money back thing and see what happens.....

until then, where did i put those hair clippers?? hehe

;)

[dirty_bass]

cant seem to find anything on the net about how windows effect the output. think i'm gonna move my desk around so the windows directly bhind the monitors, give it a try. the only thing then is that they'll both be bout 6" from the room corners which isnt ideal. but i know what your saying about the partition to the rear of the room, boy does the bass sound boomy stood there.


time to have a look on the sos website me thinks

Windows are highly relfective to highs and mids, so you may get some reflection problems.
I`d get some damping behing the monitors on windows to scatter the sound, otherwise you may find you get a slightly too toppy response, with odd delay.
As I said earlier, you basically want some kind of deflective surfaces around the listening spot, so to the left and right of the listening spot, on the walls directly opposite each other. On directlyabove the listening spot as well.
You don`t necessarily need foam tiles.
For top and mid frequencies, irregularly packed book shelves etc will do just as well.
You are basically trying to scatter the sounds to sopt any regular reflections causing trouble in the stereo filed, and boomyness.
Some diffusion in the "mirror" spots of the monitors will also help. Essentially, imagine the rear wall is a mirror, and whereever the moniros are reflected in the mirror, you also want to place some kind of scattering.
Don`t over damp a room, otherwise you will get a dead response making your mids and tops absorbed too much, and destroying a natural moitoring sound.

Bass nodes, standing waves can be a problem.
Get a synth, make a pure sine wave sound.
Draw in a declining scale in the low octaves (tdown to the point where the sound becomes inaudible).
Play this scale on repeat and sit in the listening spot.

Listen out for volume changes on notes in the scale.
And dips or rises will mean you have some nodes.

You`ll want to kill the bass energy with very very thick loose particle or breathable material (the air needs to pass all the way into the material for the soundwave to be fully damped, rather than reflected).
Rockwool, or insulation.
Or commerical bass traps.
Problem areas will be top corners behind the monitors, but really it`s a very complicated problem with the bass.
Walking around the room with above bass scale playing may help in locating problem areas.

Essentially you want as little symmetry between opposing surfaces as possible, and some good deep loose material to absorbe low bass waves.

Or use some RMC software.

[dirty_bass]

i have just done a load of reading up on this arc thing and my conclusions are simple. DONT buy it!!!!

Revolutionary Audyssey MultEQ® technology corrects frequency and phase response not only for the engineer’s ‘sweet spot’, but also multiple points in the room
...
Sonically ‘treat’ your room – get the sound of a $50,000 treated room for a fraction of the cost – so you can finally trust the sound of your studio


what a load of bollocks. the eq system is meant for home cinema, not professional music studios. seems to me like jbl are using a similar type of technology to this too, just to sell sub-standard monitors. mind you, they work for dirty, so there's something in them. hmm i need to check this shit out. i might order a pair of these jbl's on a 14 day money back thing and see what happens.....

until then, where did i put those hair clippers?? hehe

;)

JBLs are rated highly by professionals across the board.
Both Katz and SOS had almost no critisism which is extremely rare.
I trialed for 14 days and couldn`t resist.

As for the ARC, it`s a little early to make a decision based on it, as it is undergoing review buy a lot of proper studio pro`s at the mo.
I`d wait for their opinion to get a decent evaluation, but I know some of the guys at the MPG are looking into it also, and I am in regular contact with these guys.
Pro`s well beyond all our standing on here, so I should be able to get a very critical and anal evaluation from some serious audio heads pretty soon if anyone is interested.
Although there is one review I have found, and it`s a favourable one
http://www.harmony-central.com/artic...ultimedia_arc/

I wouldn`t advocate the use of RMC and no room treatment at all.
But very basic room treatment, and rmc will do better than clueless over treatment or bad amateur treatment of a room without professional audio consultation, which could end up "killing" the sound of a room.

[Milesy]

I know this is an old thread but room correction software will only fix the problems for that one single position where you took the measurements.

If you move your head back even a foot then the wave dynamics will completely change and the correction EQ is pointless.

It does help a little, but it does not stop the comb filtering effects, ringing or standing waves.

[The_Laughing_Man]

True, which is why it should be used in combination with light treatment, which can also have the same effect anyway, of changing the dynamic at the sweet spot, which is all you should really be concerned with.
Over or bad treatment of a room can result in a "dead" room, which could also result in EQ problems.
Of course RMC deals with standing wave problems, I certainly have cured my problem now.
I think to make a comment about it, you have to try it out.
I demo`d the speakers, found the results amazing, and bought them.
Not that I am a sales spokesperson, but I can only comment from experience.

here`s a quote from sound designer wade wilson
“The Room Mode Correction is great,” “ because we are often moving speakers to different rooms each with a different set of standing waves that change the bass. They can cause you to mistakenly remove bass elements, but with RMC I have no problem with that. The bass is perfect even in chase scenes, explosions or action sequences with lots of rumbling. With the RMC, I can stay in control right from the start.”"


It`s all relative, room treatment, more expensive monitors all this kind of talk moves away from actually learning how to make music properly in the first place, and I think it falls into the same category as always looking for the best EQ plug, vst synth etc to "make my sound better"

I think everyone needs to objectively assess their skill level first, and work on that, when you get to a certain level where you can actually identify room nodes as being a problem, then it might be time to get some treatment and RMC. Or maybe some really good monitors first.

I was going to start a business manufacturing treatment tiles and traps that would have been much cheaper than those currently available, but on research found that it wouldn`t have been worth it as there simply wasn`t enough interest.


The reality is that you can do a very good job with some decent hi fi monitors as long as you know your equipment well, and have trained your ears.
In fact there was a sound on sound article about this a while ago which was very interesting.

[Milesy]

My problem is my room accoustics were so bad you could not even get creative..... got a fantastic bassline... sounding great. leave the room and come back and sit in a slightly different position and it now sounds really really bad. Peaks and nulls in one position much worse than a foot next to it.

Choice of monitors would not have fixed this problem of constructive and destructive interferance in the air around my ears. All the electronics in the world still wont change the way sound waves behaive in the air.

My production experience is never going to improve if I cant trust what I hear in my ears so saying to work on skill level first is not a solution as you advise.

I am not looking for a comlpetely treated room, and I also dont want a dead room..... But... I have done frequency response analysis of my room and I am getting massive nulls and peaks in the bass area... in some positions up to 18db reduction which is quite a substantial loss of energy in the sound.

Everyones room and set up is comlpetely different, and if you could hear my room you might change your opinion, but I can only try and give some light treatment to try and tame some of it and it is already starting to sound better. The smaller the room the worse the problem becomes. And my 2x2m box is terrible.

:)

[The_Laughing_Man]

I`m not against treatment, far from it, but I am saying, generally, people should assess their skill level and apply what they need accordingly

I post on a few more techy music sites, and you get people barfing on about they want 1500 quid monitors and then room treatment, blah blah

then you hear their music, and it`s like
damn man, learn to produce to a standard first.

Howvever, looking at your photo, I`m guessing your room is teeny tiny, so I can understand you have massive problems.

move room?

[Milesy]

Only three rooms in house and the other room is the other halves dressing / beauty room, plus it is where the rabbit lives lol, plus this room is the only one which faces outside rather than onto the neighbour.

No house upgrade till well after the wedding anyway lol