Should music be given away free?

[TechMouse]

I spent up until a year ago, 5 years living totally from music ( with a few odd jobs on the side here and there), and in the last year I got to the point where I was really sick of the music side of my life becoming like a chore. The stress caused by the lack of money was totally killing my inspiration, and when I look back, some music I made, although still quite underground, was sometimes being directed by commercial pressures, something I'm not entirely comfortable with.

That last point in particular, I felt, was really not a good one, I came to the conclusion that life would be much more stress free if I actually started working full time, and my music would be purely written from the heart, when I wanted to do it and not because I was gonna earn 500 euro for doing a "banging" e.p. which I didn't really want to do, but had to because it was the only way to pay the rent..

Since working reguarly, I make a lot less music, but what I do make, I'm much more happy with, and it's written to please me, not some label owner...

Amen to that Mark. That's pretty much exactly my POV.

Different strokes for different folks and all that, but if you rely on something for income then unless you are remarkably lucky there is an implicit compromise between what you want to do and what will put food on the table.

[RDR]

AFAIK, the payout is based on a weighting assigned by PRS based on the number of public plays. This includes in clubs. Clubs should submit tracklists. It may seem pointless in individual instances, but if everyone did it it would quickly become more meaningful.


Yes. Years back I did a remix for someone and they played it in a mix on Annie Nightingale's show on Radio 1.

It's a weird thing, hearing your stuff coming out of a radio.

+1 on the track listing. Radio does it because most of the playlists are computerised with the bigger stations and also because it benefits their listeners to know which tracks they are listening to.

The chances of it happening are pretty low unless there is a sea change in the way clubs manage themselves. The very nature of club management is a bit more than haphazard at best. I could see it being rejected instantly unless there was a system that really takes the effort invloved in the process away from club manager/promoter/dj

Can you imagine them all trying to piece track lists together after the night finishes??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

The tune recognition systems that are currently in play might possibly work but it needs the following to be in place:

:: Each tune played to be registered on the database that the system calls on.
:: People to register those tunes
:: Enough money to make it worthwhile

In theory copyright protects people but it is also there to provide a signpost as to who should be paid for the exploitation of that copyright, through collection societies and the publishers of the respective artists.

So who might pay for such as system? The majors? The indies? the collection societies? How does the money get apportioned?

I can seriously see this being of benefit to little artists and those who play live. I can also see it being an excuse for club owners to pay their DJs less as the PRS/MCPS would certainly use this as an excuse to bump up the prices they charge clubs for licenses.

just my 2p

OH AND...

Well done for having a track played on radio! Can i hear it?

[TechMouse]

OH AND...

Well done for having a track played on radio! Can i hear it?

http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF1301153-02-01-02.mp3

[RDR]

Nice one mark, i like it!

[qUE]

At the end of the day,

Money makes money

People who love music, make it because it interests them and spend a vast amount of time, effort and their own money with a wall of technology trying to find more and more insane ways to twist sound will probably be too precious about it and only make enough money to tie them over (or buy cIDER in my case) :D

I personally don't see a problem with giving recorded sets away for free, even if it has taken me an age to put the bits and pieces together (quite literally). Individual tracks should be released and sold on vinyl. Lossy compressed data is very poor quality and disposable, besides vinyl can be ripped to mp3/etc. by whoever bought it in the first place anyway.



qUE
mt.3rdevent.net
invertedlightsource.com

P.S. I hoped that made sense, cIDER I UP LANDLORD!

[clubsynthetic]

so, a few years on now is anyone's opinion different?

Sifting through the crap is still an issue....but we can bookmark good artists.

and being "underground" is why free music, IMO, aids discovery...

but in the age of the downloadable media.... I still happily pay sums for quality format music.

[JamieBall]

One of my favourite things about this thread is Joes bizarre u turn from

""I personally don't think music should be given away free"

to

"Just to clarify, at no point did i say music shouldnt be free"

It's quite lolzy.

[JamieBall]

what does "LIVE TOPIC" mean ? Is it some kind of "street" jargon ?

[TVart]

Yes.

[davethedrummer]

I'm sticking to my guns

but I've got to admit that I've been doing pretty regular DJ mixes now
and sending promo's of Hydraulix to just about everyone, hoping it might pick up sales / plays

Hydraulix is now digital only because there's just no money in it any more
and I'm working a lot harder in the studio as an engineer for other peoples sessions than ever before.

I've also started designing websites to keep the cash coming in
and money is STILL tighter than ever.

It is a shame how music has somehow become devalued in this way
it was better when the scene was more affluent ( the music I mean )

but there it is, it's a sign of the times.

[blistanbul]

I thought the gigs would pave the way for techno artists and djs but I guess not.

[qUE]

I thought the gigs would pave the way for techno artists and djs but I guess not.

That's all good except getting booked :/

Certainly not nearly as much Techno being played in the UK as say back in mid-90s to early 2000.
I was personally doing upto 2 gigs a week in Bristol and westcountry back then.

[hardacid]

defo not! people have invested in equipment and time to make these tunes...

back in the day was all gd and im sure the gary d's and the westbams of the time made ****loads of dollar off tunes but nowadays its all dl this an share that

i personally dont think a producer's efforts should be just given away altho im aware that obv to get exposure these days thats the shiz

[hardacid]

Its a tricky one thats for sure.

I think it all depends on what else people have going on, A touring/gigging artist will have more invested in the live set-up.

There are many instances where music is paid for and in big amounts. but these are one off pieces like music for adverts on commision etc etc.

It all depends on wether or not anyone regards music as intrinsically worth anything or as a vehicle to promote a brand image or the artist as a product. The recent rash of people giving things away for 'FREE' (OT i think the word FREE has much more power than the word F-U.C:K in modern day society) has hardly been FREE, there was always another option for people.

Look at princes recent giveaway in the papers, it was free to the consumer but not really free at all. Most artists in the independant sector 'enjoy' the long tail in terms of sales. Prince didnt do that. How much did he get paid by the papers for having this album given away free? Instant money. Not only that, but he exploited the long tail and gained some more fans in the process (i accept that he aliented some as well) plus the fact that if he had tried to BUY that marketing and publicity it would have been extremely expensive. The consumer accepts a free album on the premise that it is really free, and it is, the cost to them is hidden. Prince on the other hand gets rapid payment, the consumer pays HIM to publicise TO them. Look at the Radiohead and NIN jaunts recently, FREE meant giveaways, but they still made money from it. Not from the sales so much, but the publicity was MASSIVE. something they couldnt buy without spending millions.

For the independant? Well, havnt we always given away music for free in the form of Mix CDS? Isnt that what DJs are meant to do? Record pools have been around for a LONG time and did exactly that, gave away promo's to DJs so they could play them out. I think in the techno scene the problem is that who the hell is buying the music, its not the standard consumer, its the DJs and most of them i meant didnt really expect to pay for music at all. They felt that it should be free because they are 'Promoting' a certain artist. This rings true when you have a product like vinyl, hard to copy etc etc, but not MP3.

One of the side effects (IMO - like everything here else of course) is that all of a sudden the DJ jealously guarding their record collection has gone, no white labels on a CD is there? A DJ lives and dies on their tunes, but that piss and vinegar approach seems to have gone, in the endless round of circle jerk promo action.

/Rant.

EDIT: Just seen jamies comment and wanted to add a +1 for most of that. I know im trying to talk from a commercial perspective here.

well said chief...

[pion33r]

I reckon from a music collectors point of view it would be a good idea if labels provided MP3s free of charge with every vinyl purchase. At the moment I believe labels/online stores expect you to buy both at full price if you want both, forcing the decision to one or the other. I doubt many people can really afford to buy both.

Obviously some people probably rip vinyl to MP3 straight away, however I've always found this a bit of a chore and fiddly to get the best sound from the rip. On top of that some MP3s / WAVs are superior to the vinyl pressings from the start...

Additionally there would be the benefit of instant download access to your tunes, with the physical product delivered to your door in the next few days.

Its the best of both worlds solution!

Economically viable for the music labels themselves though I don't know

[hardacid]

I reckon from a music collectors point of view it would be a good idea if labels provided MP3s free of charge with every vinyl purchase. At the moment I believe labels/online stores expect you to buy both at full price if you want both, forcing the decision to one or the other. I doubt many people can really afford to buy both.

Obviously some people probably rip vinyl to MP3 straight away, however I've always found this a bit of a chore and fiddly to get the best sound from the rip. On top of that some MP3s / WAVs are superior to the vinyl pressings from the start...

Additionally there would be the benefit of instant download access to your tunes, with the physical product delivered to your door in the next few days.

Its the best of both worlds solution!

Economically viable for the music labels themselves though I don't know

many mixes i dl now have no vinyl release/discogs info etc from trakkys as its all files,,,so many gd tunes im missin out on tbh...

id far rather pay a fiver for a record than have a file for the tune altho its gettin to the stage now where i am goin to be buyin files as summa the tunes are that gd and i cant miss them

i am an oldskool hardtrance/italiano collector aswell, so many tunes that i could never afford/justify wax price i have on mp3 not to mention all the tunes that were never released on wax back in the day off compilations etc or are just too rare to get is making me buy serato later this year to play them...saves outputting on a cdj and u still get the touchyfeelyness of the vinyl which is what i like tbh

[Little_Otty]

There are far to many wankers making shitty tunes nowadays to be paying for it.

[blistanbul]

There are far to many wankers making shitty tunes nowadays to be paying for it.

such a joke for someone like you to say.

you are cool though.

[MashUp]

Its an unfortunate state of affairs we are in, In my heart i believe that everything should be free to all mankind but thats taking things a little too deep, But obviously considering the social system we have in place where monetary value is placed on living, I think people need to earn a living, Although i think those that make music solely to make money are delusional, Get a real job to fall back on as the music industry could see you rocketing with fame one week and a nobody the next! Music is one human beings soul in essence being portrayed to others (Perhaps not techno because then there are many people with proper ****ed up souls!) hahaha Can a price be put on that? I love making music and i like to think others like my work too, So i try and make as many tracks of mine free as possibly, But i do hold out on some being released on a big record label, Not for profit or fame but just to be recognised as someone who has spent the last 8years of their life dedicated to a craft! - I dont think music should be free these days because any money is helpful!

P.S This comment "seems a nonsense. everything must have a cost otherwise it has no value." - Is the biggest pile of rubbish ive ever heard! Infact i think im going to have to laugh at it otherwise i will cry at how insanely stupid the human race has become :D Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

[MashUp]

Would like to add the part about getting a real job doesn't count for the older generations who have already made it lol Also i hold down a standard job and still find time to make tracks because i would rather not sleep in the night and work hard at it than not do it at all, because dance music is my life and i love it!! Everything is possible with a little determination!