tutorial video sending wrong message

[jon connor]

was wondering how you guys feal about this especially the more experienced producers in here for the sake of up and coming talent.

i buy computer music mag and have done since it started its great for tutorials and general knowlage of new software etc, but however i do have a problem with an issue which has rennie pilgrim drum + bass legend sending a mixed and mabey wrong message to new guys learning the art of production, there is a part in the video where he talks about liking other peoples drum patterns etc and stealing them ? he even goes as far as to show you how to do this and congile together in abelton ?

now tell me if im wrong but when i did 2 years in collage studying a deploma in sound engineering i dont remember my tutor telling me to do this.

i would think it would be better encouraging new artists to be individual and origanal i thought this was a little bit dogy and careless of rennie, because the rest is actually a very good tutorial.

are we now in an era where nobody cares anymore and wot about the poor guys this stuff has been stolen off for an example in the case of deadmaoussy dude in techno descussion to abuse

is this right or wrong. ?

[rhythmtech]

learn the rules. then break the rules.

our entire genre is only in existance because of sampling. just be creative in how you do it.

[Honeey]

I don't agree with encouragement to steal and use other peoples drum patterns etc in a tutorial. I agree with encouraging people to be original. They can do whatever they want but don't teach them bad habits lol

[rhythmtech]

I don't agree with encouragement to steal and use other peoples drum patterns etc in a tutorial. I agree with encouraging people to be original. They can do whatever they want but don't teach them bad habits lol

i think you'll find the word is sampling not stealing

simple way to look at it:

1. lift a loop and use it as it originally was = GAY
2. lift a loop, chop it up, rearrange it, make it sound like nothing you've heard before = COOLNESS.

[Smear]

simple way to look at it:

1. lift a loop and use it as it originally was = GAY
2. lift a loop, chop it up, rearrange it, make it sound like nothing you've heard before = COOLNESS.

Yeah but what one person would class as 1, someone else could class as 2. Even Vanilla Ice argued that adding one note to the bassline of Under Pressure made it something original.

Also, drum&bass and its predecessors may have been based on sampling other music, but techno wasn't. That's just a myth perpetuated by people who like to steal loops from other people's music :p.

[rhythmtech]

Yeah but what one person would class as 1, someone else could class as 2. Even Vanilla Ice argued that adding one note to the bassline of Under Pressure made it something original.

well adding 1 note to a bassline is completly differant to chopping an audio file into slices, sticking them in a sampler and using the single slices as drum hits.

and to be honest about it ive lifted loops myself in the past. especially when i was starting and wasnt to confident about my own stuff. but like i said its not what you do its the way that you do it.

Also, drum&bass and its predecessors may have been based on sampling other music, but techno wasn't.

well techno has been so bastardised thru the years that it doesnt really make a differance anymore.

look, this topic has been done to death here and no-one will ever agree so just do what you do and if people like it then great.

[Honeey]

i think you'll find the word is sampling not stealing

simple way to look at it:

1. lift a loop and use it as it originally was = GAY
2. lift a loop, chop it up, rearrange it, make it sound like nothing you've heard before = COOLNESS.

lol good point :)

[fils_here]

as PWEI once said steal it, loop it , sample it & **** it!

[rhythmtech]

fukin loved the poppies!!

[fils_here]

yeh baz! top band, should've said tho steal it, sample it, loop it, **** it & eat it!! well most or every one of their tracks had samples n shit in from somewhere hehe, gimme big mac & fries to go gimme big mac & fries to go!!

[TechMouse]

I don't agree with encouragement to steal and use other peoples drum patterns etc in a tutorial.

I dunno... countless quality tunes have been built around the rhythm of a classic breakbeat or whatever.

[RDR]

How about stealing an arrangement?

To my knowledge there is only ONE arrangement that has been at the forefront of defending its own copyright.. and thats John Cage's 4' 33''.. its as simple as this, how do you copyright an arrangement of nothing... and thats because to play nothing, you cannot change a thing, becuase nothing is there to change... its a real mind bender!!!!! and been succesfully defended in the court twice i seem to remember.

drum patterns are a difficult one... breaks and standard drum patterns have been around for years - they are printed without refernce to an originator (AFAIK) and are available for robbing.

recordings of drum patterns are a different thing altogether. The copyright covers the song writer (rarely a drummer by origin) the performance (the drummer themselves) and recording copyright (the person/studio where the performance was recorded and possibly mastered)

And all this has to considered on top of the phrase "Prior Art" which covers such things as chords, scales, basic chord progressions etc.

Sampling, breaking, effecting and possibly re-pitching are perfectly acceptable ways of taking what is effectivly a sound and re-enginnering it.

Sampling, reversing and leaving as is becomes not just un-original but also makes a producer into a dreadful shit.

:lol:

[Honeey]

I dunno... countless quality tunes have been built around the rhythm of a classic breakbeat or whatever.

I don't disagree with sampling in music it wouldn't be the same without it but I think learning how to be creative from "scratch" first just makes the person develop a more creative mindset with whatever they do in the future. :)

[rhythmtech]

I don't disagree with sampling in music it wouldn't be the same without it but I think learning how to be creative from "scratch" first just makes the person develop a more creative mindset with whatever they do in the future. :)

you're 1005 right. you need to learn the rules before you can break them.

[Jay Pace]

People get too het up about copying and the need to be uber original.

Striving to be original is all well and good, but some of the best and most original stuff of the last decade (jungle, hardcore, hip hop) has been made by people borrowing heavily from other places and mashing it all together, and you end up with something amazing.

People starting out would be better off trying to get to grips with whats already out there, then try and pull new genres out their arses. Take a sample from here, whack a riff from there and maybe put something of your own on top of it etc. Worked for plenty of the greats. Making everything from scratch is pretty punishing for beginners.

[RDR]

Live bands have been doing covers for YEARS and no-one says shit about that...

[tonyc2002]

Live bands have been doing covers for YEARS and no-one says shit about that...

That's a very valid point.

[jon connor]

ok guys nice points there i getting sum good response , but however i was asking if it is right to do this on tutorial dvd`s on a national magazine which i and many others have to pay a good 5 or 6 quid for ?

cant help feeling a little bit let down if somone is going to steal / sample , wotever from others let them be descrete about it and do it on there own terms , dont blatently go BLA BLA BLA BLA yea do this do that bobs your uncle hears ya freshly stolen track and this is how to do it and diguise it on a national magazine tutorial dvd coz you no wot that`s jus a big fat bollock.

[loopdon]

I think it's OK. I for one generally love tutorials.
As baz pointed out it's about what you have to put 'on top' or how YOU can make something totally fresh of the samplage. Copying patterns (not much different than using midi patterns etc.) and cutting kicks etc. is ok IF you can add something to what you borrowed.

[TechMouse]

ok guys nice points there i getting sum good response , but however i was asking if it is right to do this on tutorial dvd`s on a national magazine which i and many others have to pay a good 5 or 6 quid for ?

The biggest most important lesson for most people here is that you're never going to get anywhere if you don't look for inspiration and ideas outside of the likes of Future / Computer Music.