Finaly fake live acts are beeing exposed!

[Igneous]

Heared a live set by Bas Mooy last year. He was using Live & a midi controller I think. He was dropping a new loop of dark, broken, pounding beats every 30 seconds. Very impressive & impossible to do with turntables. Opened my eyes to how good laptop sets can be.

[Radic]

that peter hook clip is disturbing

[The_Laughing_Man]

Best definition of a live pa
If you walk away from the kit, and the tune and mix progresses without you, it isn`t live.
Very simple.

[DJPAUZE]

Heared a live set by Bas Mooy last year. He was using Live & a midi controller I think. He was dropping a new loop of dark, broken, pounding beats every 30 seconds. Very impressive & impossible to do with turntables. Opened my eyes to how good laptop sets can be.

I have heard a ton of Bas's live's and they sound incredible. Wish I could see him or Radial sometime.

Radial is one of the best live's I have heard besides Speedy...

[eppertheleper]

except that there's no such thing as "easy"

Agreed, but when you compare the difficulty of a dj set using Ableton to one on decks, you've effectively removed two of the hardest elements - beat matching and getting a track to drop on cue. I'm just an amateur tinkerer at best, but those two elements are the hardest parts for me to get right on tables. Ableton matches the beats and, if you know your tracks, getting them to drop at the appropriate time is so easy a first grader could do it.

With Ableton, you've still got to learn the software and know your tracks, but a lot of the technical aspects of spinning are completely handled for you. Anyway, my point was that without those two elements, you're left with finding two tracks that sound good together and mixing them properly so that they don't overwhelm one another. The skills required have been halved. Why someone would go the extra step of removing the last two difficult portions of mixing by doing the whole thing at home is beyond me. Ableton makes it significantly easier to simply mix two tracks together. I'm not knocking those who use hundreds of loops in a set and really push the software to a point that would be impossible using only turntables (Bas Mooy mention above). That IS impressive. What I'm asking is why anyone would pre-program an entire standard mix (one track to the next) at home when doing so on the fly with Ableton is so easy a plebeian like myself can do it?

[The_Laughing_Man]

Never seen this with DJ`s.
This whole conversation is about live pa`s
I guess you really have to know about production and pa`s to really appreciate what goes on here, but basically, building a live pa is a difficult thing to get your head around.
Within the Psi community "cheating" has always been around. DAT based PA`s and DJ sets, and now pre mixed sets on a laptop. In Psi, the music has always taken precedent over all else. No one seems to care if the act or the dj is live, as long as the music is good, but in the more underground scenes, this is very different.
Anyway, the actual construction of a live pa is a different mindset from production itself. I know a lot of producers who have wanted to play live, but just couldn`t get their head around implementing it, and so "cheated".
I`ve trained a lot of people now to make pa`s properly, and once you show someone the basic method of deconstructing their own music and then implementing it within ableton, generally their minds light up.
You don`t just need to run audio in ableton, it is just as easy to implement live vsti also, and in this sense, is no different to using hardware, only you are more portable.

Now as a complete asside, what does difficulty have to do with creativity?
I paint, but I rarely make my own paints. I generally buy pre made paint in a tube, it is much easier, and it doesn`t effect my creativity.

Mixing is not getting 2 revolving platters in time. Mixing is what you choose to play, when you choose to play it, and how you make the music interact, how you react to the music and the crowd.

If I can use something that allows me to spend more time being creative, and less time setting up the mechanics to allow me to be creative, I will take it every time.
That in essence, is Techno. Techno-logy.

I choose to use a mobile phone rather than smoke signals. It doesn`t change the veracity of my words, but it makes it easier for me to communicate.

Why people are still moaning about the use of technology to ease the passage of creativity in a music genre that is supposed to be on the cutting edge, I just don`t understand.
What is the difference with a DJ choosing to use ableton, traktor, CD, Vinyl? A choice of methods that all facilitate the flow of creativity.

Whatever you use is valid. As long as it allows you to be creative and you are the one wielding the brush, and not the other way round, all other considerations are basically irrelevant.

[markandrew]

Why people are still moaning about the use of technology to ease the passage of creativity in a music genre that is supposed to be on the cutting edge, I just don`t understand.
What is the difference with a DJ choosing to use ableton, traktor, CD, Vinyl? A choice of methods that all facilitate the flow of creativity.

Whatever you use is valid. As long as it allows you to be creative and you are the one wielding the brush, and not the other way round, all other considerations are basically irrelevant.

well said mate

[DJPAUZE]

Agreed, but when you compare the difficulty of a dj set using Ableton to one on decks, you've effectively removed two of the hardest elements - beat matching and getting a track to drop on cue. I'm just an amateur tinkerer at best, but those two elements are the hardest parts for me to get right on tables. Ableton matches the beats and, if you know your tracks, getting them to drop at the appropriate time is so easy a first grader could do it.

With Ableton, you've still got to learn the software and know your tracks, but a lot of the technical aspects of spinning are completely handled for you. Anyway, my point was that without those two elements, you're left with finding two tracks that sound good together and mixing them properly so that they don't overwhelm one another. The skills required have been halved. Why someone would go the extra step of removing the last two difficult portions of mixing by doing the whole thing at home is beyond me. Ableton makes it significantly easier to simply mix two tracks together. I'm not knocking those who use hundreds of loops in a set and really push the software to a point that would be impossible using only turntables (Bas Mooy mention above). That IS impressive. What I'm asking is why anyone would pre-program an entire standard mix (one track to the next) at home when doing so on the fly with Ableton is so easy a plebeian like myself can do it?

When's the last time you did a dj mix in ableton, you are far from right....

[The Overfiend]

Not far from having the ability to post his opinions based on his experiences.

[SlavikSvensk]

When's the last time you did a dj mix in ableton, you are far from right....

what's not right about it, though? he just said you don't have to beat match in ableton, which you don't, and that this fact makes him view ableton dj sets that don't go beyond just mixing (in a traditional sense) as less challenging.

don't see anything wrong with that at all. if all you're doing is dropping tracks in after a few minutes and using the EQs (and maybe a few effects), it is less challenging that mixing. that's a valid point of view.

on the other hand, you could make an equally good case that there's no real point in doing things the hard way if you can do them the easy way. another valid opinion.

in either case, for me the point of software like ableton is to free you up to do other things once the preoccupation with beat matching is taken out of the equation.

[eppertheleper]

When's the last time you did a dj mix in ableton, you are far from right....

Three weeks ago.

Slav's right. I'm not saying that Ableton can't be VERY challenging. I was just saying, in the context of this discussion on "cheating" your way through a set, that it can also make things very easy if that's what the performer so desires.

[FuK-NuT]

not strictly true mate
the dj and his technique and his programming skills on the night
will set a track in perfect context ( hopefully! ) so the punters get the most from it
it isn't just a case of stick anything on and hope it's ok.
or a case of completely submitting to the track you are playing either
some tracks ONLY come to life when you get stuck in and dj/mix them properly
get them wrong and they suck

how does that work?

n thats the difference...

[DJPAUZE]

what's not right about it, though? he just said you don't have to beat match in ableton, which you don't, and that this fact makes him view ableton dj sets that don't go beyond just mixing (in a traditional sense) as less challenging.

don't see anything wrong with that at all. if all you're doing is dropping tracks in after a few minutes and using the EQs (and maybe a few effects), it is less challenging that mixing. that's a valid point of view.

on the other hand, you could make an equally good case that there's no real point in doing things the hard way if you can do them the easy way. another valid opinion.

in either case, for me the point of software like ableton is to free you up to do other things once the preoccupation with beat matching is taken out of the equation.

Sorry, I guess I was referring to the actual setup of a dj set in ableton. It's not as easy as drop, press play and you have a set completed.

And again, i hear what his point was and misread the statement.

Pauze

[DJPAUZE]

Three weeks ago.

Slav's right. I'm not saying that Ableton can't be VERY challenging. I was just saying, in the context of this discussion on "cheating" your way through a set, that it can also make things very easy if that's what the performer so desires.

My bad dude, no worries.

[SlavikSvensk]

not a prob. maybe epper came off as anti-ableton a bit...i just know he's not at all :)

[The Overfiend]

[force]

Why??????